Requiem for a sports columnist

[GreggTX]

Sully's biggest problem was that we sucked for so long and he had the nerve to say it. I didn't always agree, but I had no problem with him calling all those people out when they were failing. In fact, he was right all along about Whaley when so many (myself included) were still supporting him. He just had that annoying habit of being right that made Bills fans upset. He was the only columnist worth reading over there. No matter. Sports columns are pretty dull as a rule anyways so I won't miss much.

Edited June 25, 2018 by GreggTX

[Rico]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Didn't I read here that Sully and others were offered buyouts?  That's much different than being shown the door.  He's 73 years old, getting a buyout at that point, I'm sure he's laughing all the way to he bank.

 

He's a columnist, not a true beat reporter, so he really doesn't need sources, he is paid to write what he wants.

 

 

 

Someone who can write what he wants and have it published, I think that's called a job!.  His editors apparently didn't delete the stuff because they thought it was good. 

 

Sorry you don't understand that!

I didn't know he was 73, damn!

 

As for Tyler Dunne and his "great sources", Dimwit Doug Whaley had his ear and he regurgitated quite a bit of Lil Doug's BS. Not quite at a Chris Brown-level, but he ended up defending the indefensible a lot of the time... of course, the naive and the less-savvy fans ate it up. A total hack.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

13 hours ago, WIDE LEFT said:

Jerry Sullivan was shown the door and in typical fashion he portrayed his departure as being motivated by his “independence” as a critic of the Bills. We expect a columnist to be critical, nobody ever had a problem with that. But Sullivan’s entire claim to fame, in his mind, was that he was an independent critic and not a fan. But he took that to a level wherein he was critical of everything, without any balance. So he was equally as critical of the Bills during their Super Bowl years as well the drought years. The Pegulas were “over their heads” as owners, as if every new owner comes into the league with experience & expertise. Virtually every new owner is owning a franchise for the first time. And they took over the franchise from an owner who, despite is 50+ years of experience, ran the franchise into the ground. He also had a heads I win, tails you lose mentality. When Dareus had his troubles early in his career, Sullivan wanted the Bills to cut him. After Dareus had his big pro bowl year, Sullivan completely flipped to Dareus side. When Dareus had his most recent problems/issues, Sullivan wrote “see I told you so, should have cut him like I said” Heads he is right, tails he is right

 

But none of the above was Sullivan’s biggest weakness. The biggest problem with Sullivan was that in all his years there, he never developed any sources of information, either inside the Bills organization or within the NFL, to provide insight or analysis based on experience, film study etc etc. So all you ever got from him was just the opinion of a guy who never played or coached the game, who never watched game film and who never developed a source or asset who had the experience/expertise to provide insight. Sullivan’s opinions were no more valid than any fan sitting on a bar stool watching the game on TV. And that was obvious from his columns. Tyler Dunne was with the News for one year, and consistently produced columns that were based on his interactions with NFL insiders or those with experience & expertise in evaluating the game. It was no wonder that Dunne was hired away after one year here, while Sullivan took the easy path of voicing uninformed opinions mixed in with potshots at everybody. And felt that was good enough, because after all, he was “no fan”.  Criticism is fine and welcome; but readers/subscribers are entitled to informed opinions, or at least occasional insight from sources well placed, well versed or experienced with game of professional football. Sullivan could not be bothered to provide any of that. Good riddance 

 

Where is he now?

 

 

12 hours ago, billsredneck1 said:

i'm not a subscriber to bn ( from rochester) but none of them ever really bothered me (listening to them on wgr), whether i agreed with them or not. i absorb anything bills and quite frankly a lot of posts on this site are much more irritating.

 

heck, chris brown used to get under my skin with his russ and doug comapny line bootlicking, but now i love listening to him. sometimes it's hard for me to tell the difference between him and tasker on the radio. one bills live is my favorite 3 hrs. of the weekday......so it really irks me when the instigators take over the day. sorry, but i hate hockey........ or have less than zero interest in it.

 

I like the Sabres but the instigators are the worst, I turn the channel if those chuckle heads are on.

 

 

[BobbyC81]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Agreed and Sullivan isn't alone...........there isn't anyone at TBN or in the Bills organization that would be missed by the average fan.   

 

I disagree.  I think I would miss Chris Brown.  ?

[Skins Malone]

Never had an issue with him either.  I get why some people didnt like him...but like others have said if you dont like it you dont read it.  I think there is alot of overreaction when it comes to Sullivan.   Now if tbn decided they wanted to go in another direction i understand that.  But its not like hes a bad guy people need to relax a little bit about Sullivan

[machine gun kelly]

I never read Sully as I didn’t like his. Opinions.  I never cared for him, but if you liked him fine.  The BN just made a business decision.  Newspapers have been going down for years.   The only people I know who actually get the paper in any city are retirees.  It is their generation.

 

i read these news stories, but always on-line, and refuse to pay the Buffalo News $3 a month when every other paper you can read for free.  They have advertising dollars to fund their company.  I used to work for the News in college, as my Dad worked there for 44 years.  They’ve always been cheap.

[4merper4mer]

13 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Jerry Sullivan is a heck of a good writer.  

 

The type of forum member here who views this place as "The Buffalo Bills Booster Club" never understood Jerry, and never will.

 

I think some of the criticism thrown at him is warranted, however.  There were some columns that did seem to be really dark for the sake of being really dark.

 

But that was kind of his thing.

 

 

 

 

It is your opinion that he is a good writer and you're entitled to it.  I will say that he didn't write choppy crap like you see a lot nowadays.  The structure of his writing was mostly fine.

 

From my point of view he wrote the same article 1000 times and changed the nouns.  Boring.  Take a different angle once in a while dude.

 

Does anyone remember a band called Boston?  If you've never heard them before and you do for the first time, you'll think they are good songwriters and talented musicians.  When you listen more you'll hear the same song every time.

[fergie's ire]

9 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

The OP has it about right, but so do those who say if he plays he stays. I stopped reading him many years ago because he was a cynic, not a skeptic. That and he basically wrote the same column over and over again. I found him boring and lazy. So I didn't read him. Problem solved. Likely a lot of others stopped reading him as well  because if his numbers were up he'd still be there.

P*ssing in Cheerios daily doesn't constitute an opposing view. I used to refer to him as the "little cloud that cried."  I don't think he ever had a nice day in his life and wanted everyone else to feel like crap along with him.

Couldn't agree more.  Haven't read his columns since they were free and linked to TBD, but when I did, his columns seemed one-note and predictable.  Some posters say they were angered by Sullivan.  Personally, I find it hard to get angry at someone who just predictably says, "this sucks" at every move.   Bored, yes.  Angry, no.  And yes, columnists who get readers angry DO sell papers....but columnists who bore their readers do not.

[plenzmd1]

9 hours ago, Kwai San said:

Wow - 2 takeaways - Sully is gone and the dude was 73.......ya his time was up.  Certainly his replacement will get ridden into the ground as well.

 

 

1

 

8 hours ago, Rico said:

I didn't know he was 73, damn!

 

 

 

He's not..just like a newspaper these days, one must always fact check. 

 

63

[PromoTheRobot]

A little personal Sully story.

 

In 2002 Jerry wrote a glowing column about Tom Donahoe drafting OT Mike Williams. Several years later, once it was obvious Williams was a Grade A bust, Sully wrote a column ripping Donahoe for drafting Williams. I emailed Jerry and reminded him that he loved the pick in 2002, and wasn't it a bit disingenuous to be wailing on the GM now? Jerry wrote back to explain that as a columnist he had the prerogative to change his opinion. (True, but in that column he could have admitted that he also liked Williams at the time. He didn't.)

 

Anyway, thinking back, I wonder if Jerry leaned to the negative with the Bills so he never would need to reverse himself like this again?

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Anyway, thinking back, I wonder if Jerry leaned to the negative with the Bills so he never would need to reverse himself like this again?

 

 

Because he knew they would be incapable of righting themselves in a league designed to promote parity?

 

Not even the most cynical could have predicteded the team not making the playoffs for 17 years or not  having a 10 win season for nearly 2 decades and counting.  

 

Ralph was a terrible football man as we all know but "the drought" nearly tripled any previous length of playoff absence.   

 

And when they did reach the playoffs after those prior extended periods on the outside......... they actually had teams that had to be accounted for as contenders.

 

The struggle was.......and still is.......real for this organization.

Edited June 25, 2018 by BADOLBILZ

[Green Lightning]

15 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

Why did someone you never met make you feel like crap over opinionated words.

I said that was his goal, not that he was successful.

[Malazan]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Ralph was a terrible football man as we all know but "the drought" nearly tripled any previous length of playoff absence.   

 

How could it triple the length of any previous playoff drought when the Browns were always right there two years behind? Then you have Tampa...Jets, bears who were all less then triple. 

[vorpma]

On 6/24/2018 at 9:58 AM, WIDE LEFT said:

My point exactly - no worse or better than opinions voiced here. Except from a professional/paid sportswriter/columnist, you should expect more than what’s posted on Two Bills Dr

Maybe a tad bit over sensitive with very Fragile feelings? Why do you believe you should expect more, it's a fricking game?

[Mr. WEO]

Oy.........

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, vorpma said:

Why do you believe you should expect more, it's a fricking game?

 

Access.   Resources.   Experience.   Talent.   

 

Four good reasons to expect more.   Should I go on?...

[vorpma]

8 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Access.   Resources.   Experience.   Talent.   

 

Four good reasons to expect more.   Should I go on?...

Man, you need to get out more; I guess I am somewhat stunned that someones life is so emotionally tied to a sportswriter who expresses OPINIONS!

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, vorpma said:

Man, you need to get out more; I guess I am somewhat stunned that someones life is so emotionally tied to a sportswriter who expresses OPINIONS!

No one is emotionally tied like you claim.  You did the same nonsense with me last night.  People are having a discussion, and you are the one being emotional, typing in caps and such because some don't agree with you.

[vorpma]

28 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

No one is emotionally tied like you claim.  You did the same nonsense with me last night.  People are having a discussion, and you are the one being emotional, typing in caps and such because some don't agree with you.

But I am a societal problem! But I remained stunned!

[4th&long]

Want t there a thread on this **** already? Sully sure had a lot of readers for so many people hating him. I never had a problem with him. Not saying I always agreed with him. He is a sports columnist, which is to say his opinion is irrelevant so it never bothered me. To many candy assess that can't handle the criticism about their team.

[Punching Bag]

8 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

A little personal Sully story.

 

In 2002 Jerry wrote a glowing column about Tom Donahoe drafting OT Mike Williams. Several years later, once it was obvious Williams was a Grade A bust, Sully wrote a column ripping Donahoe for drafting Williams. I emailed Jerry and reminded him that he loved the pick in 2002, and wasn't it a bit disingenuous to be wailing on the GM now? Jerry wrote back to explain that as a columnist he had the prerogative to change his opinion. (True, but in that column he could have admitted that he also liked Williams at the time. He didn't.)

 

Anyway, thinking back, I wonder if Jerry leaned to the negative with the Bills so he never would need to reverse himself like this again?

 

He did multiple times.  He bashed the Bills for not giving Fitz an extension using his usual insulting remarks which would get your warned on the wall and then after he was signed he did it again for doing so several months later.

 

According to article he was not pushed out just been told the column was no longer his so he took the buyout.

 

Next time I hope to see Sullivan is in the obituaries about his reporting on Eugene Parker in hell.

[Big Turk]

Sullivan's main issue was tying the baggage of all the Bills past issues during the drought around new people that came into the organization. He couldnt seem to understand they had nothing to do with past failures.  

 

Sure, he claimed to give them a clean slate but that lasted abput one column before he started bringing up stuff from the past they had nothing to do with and talking about how they wouldnt be able to succeed because of blah blah blah from the past...or how they were doing the same thing as previous people in their position did or any myriad of other things that proved they were destined to fail.

 

And he was right for a long time. Not necessarily because of the past but because of the way things worked out. Except this time...he still clung to the belief these guys would fail in the end and when they didn't rationalized it away by saying they had all this luck go their way....well so do lots of other teams every year. I'm sure most Patriots fans thought they were pretty lucky Sneaky Pete decided to try and throw a quick slant rather than hand the ball off to Beast Mode at the 1 yard line in the Super Bowl...

Edited June 25, 2018 by matter2003

[Lurker]

2 hours ago, vorpma said:

Man, you need to get out more; I guess I am somewhat stunned that someones life is so emotionally tied to a sportswriter who expresses OPINIONS!

 

Nope.   I buy the Buffalo News to be entertained and informed, just like when I buy a movie ticket, magazine subscription or toilet paper.    The more the BN can deliver on that value proposition the better.   

 

Getting generic, gas station TP when I know it could potentially be Charmin is something that disappoints me.    Or stated another way, knowing that quality columnists like Felser and Kelley once were available for the same price as Sully and Bucky is a downer...

[oldmanfan]

He was offered a job.  He said no and left.  It's on him and not the paper.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

Sullivan's main issue was tying the baggage of all the Bills past issues during the drought around new people that came into the organization. He couldnt seem to understand they had nothing to do with past failures.  

 

But this very same excuse has been made by apologists regime after regime.

 

Remarkably similar mistakes have been repeated over and over and over since Donahoe pretended the Bills had no choice but to gut their roster entirely.....using the Bills difficult cap situation as an excuse put his own stamp on the team when it already had an identity/culture that lent itself to being a competitive team year-in and year-out.

 

Will the McBeane roster purge be viewed as a success?  Or just yet another case of poor stewardship by the owners in allowing an unworthy GM/HC to be empowered like a couple dudes with SB rings in those roles?

 

We will see but it's not like the previous HC/GM had their hands tied by management and this level of empowerment from the Pegula's is not anything new.

 

The Pegula's simply don't know the game well enough at this point to do it any differently........so whether they hired McDermott or Rex or Hue Jackson they were going to let them do it their way.

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by BADOLBILZ

[Rob's House]

If they criticize the Bills they're pessimistic hacks. If they praise the Bills they're water carrying shills. These guys can't win.

[KingRex]

My sense as a consumer very interested in sports and the Bills in particular is that the Buffalo News has upgraded their coverage of the Bills simply letting Sully go.

 

The ultimate judgment about the results is who takes over the column inches and radio and TV coverage that Sully used.

 

However, as a starting point I hope that in terms of his work on WGR and his Sunday morning TV gig is that I hope these other outlets follow the Buffalo News also improve their Bills coverage by devoting their news holes to someone who 1. Demonstrated sound understanding of the operation and history of the sport, 2. developed good reporting contacts with the Bills, 3. Wrote with a focus on the product rather than a focus on themselves.

 

Sully generally struck me as 1. Rarely demonstrated knowledge and strong understanding of the game.  He seemed to simply spout his judgments on whether a player was a good or worthwhile athlete or even sillier a good or worthwhile person based on his assessment of whether that athlete was a good or bad person.  2. He seemed mostly interested in burning bridges with Bills contacts by publicly demeaning  athletes.  Finding fault with an athlete's particular performance in a game (particularly if it is stat based and includes suggestions on how to improve) is great to see.  However, Sully had too much of a habit of simply declaring a player a bum with no suggestion of the potential for improvement.  3. He tended to write about him judging the Bills rather than write about the Bills.

 

His screeds like his own failings at enjoying golf were an interesting concept which ended up being unreadable written maturbation.

 

The Buffalo Snooze has improved their Bills coverage simply by getting rid of him.

 

 

[BadLandsMeanie]

I think the Buffalo News did not have Opinion writers.

 

I think they had "I am Righters".

 

That is what bugged me about 3 of them who are no longer there. When it is impossible, flat out impossible to always be right about a football team, they always were pretty insistent that they were always right.

 

There is another thing about TBN and Bills sports reporting that is disappointing to me. There are 53 players and 10 practice squad guys. You got I don't know how many coaches, and most are "personalities". It is this giant, crazy, traveling circus full of all kinda personalities. But nothing funny ever seems to happen? No interesting fun anecdotes? I bet it is crazy behind the curtain but we learn none of it. The stuff in the news nearly always reads like the same bland pap put out by the teams themselves.

 

When I ask myself, of all of the players, coaches, support staff, lawyers, secretaries, salespeople, tech people, etc, who work for the Bills,  I wonder how many have an interesting story to tell?

 

My answer is, I think every one of them does. It is a gold mine.

 

Given the same access the press gets, Shaw could run rings around them all. I think a number of people on this board could.

 

So, Mr SDS and the powers that be, aren't you press? It seems to me you are. Has it ever been asked if TBD can get a press credential?

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie

[BringBackOrton]

Lots of folks in here claim to hate Sully, but remember specific articles from 16 years ago and fan interactions like cherished memories. And they can't stop talking about him.

 

Its the media equivalent of pulling a girl's pig tails and telling her she's ugly in elementary school, because you have a huge crush on her.

 

Just tell Sully how you really feel.

Edited June 29, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[BadLandsMeanie]

2 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Lots of folks in here claim to hate Sully, but remember specific articles from 16 years ago and fan interactions like cherished memories. And they can't stop talking about him.

 

Its the media equivalent of pulling a girl's pig tails and telling her she's ugly in elementary school, because you have a huge crush on her.

 

Just tell Sully how you really feel.

I feel like he would make a hideously ugly school girl in pig tails. It is a really disturbing image.  ?

[Punching Bag]

On 6/25/2018 at 3:56 PM, jeremy2020 said:

 

How could it triple the length of any previous playoff drought when the Browns were always right there two years behind? Then you have Tampa...Jets, bears who were all less then triple. 

 

Please do not try to confuse irrational ranter with facts.

Like the fact that Ralph was the ONLY owner to object to NFLPA  deal saying it made no sense.

Like the fact that Ralph set it up to keep Bills in Buffalo post death despite what league wanted.  There were very mad about losing a large relocation fee.

Ralph tried to improve team and both GMs came heavily recommended but both had weaknesses not obvious at first hire.

[Shaw66]

17 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

I think the Buffalo News did not have Opinion writers.

 

I think they had "I am Righters".

 

That is what bugged me about 3 of them who are no longer there. When it is impossible, flat out impossible to always be right about a football team, they always were pretty insistent that they were always right.

 

There is another thing about TBN and Bills sports reporting that is disappointing to me. There are 53 players and 10 practice squad guys. You got I don't know how many coaches, and most are "personalities". It is this giant, crazy, traveling circus full of all kinda personalities. But nothing funny ever seems to happen? No interesting fun anecdotes? I bet it is crazy behind the curtain but we learn none of it. The stuff in the news nearly always reads like the same bland pap put out by the teams themselves.

 

When I ask myself, of all of the players, coaches, support staff, lawyers, secretaries, salespeople, tech people, etc, who work for the Bills,  I wonder how many have an interesting story to tell?

 

My answer is, I think every one of them does. It is a gold mine.

 

Given the same access the press gets, Shaw could run rings around them all. I think a number of people on this board could.

 

So, Mr SDS and the powers that be, aren't you press? It seems to me you are. Has it ever been asked if TBD can get a press credential?

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the compliment, and let me give it back to you.

 

You are dead on about this.   Sports columnists used to know the stories of the athletes, the behind-the-scenes stuff, and they wrote about it.   They informed us about the stories behind the events.   The modern guys rarely do that.  They're too busy being "experts," telling us what's wrong with how this coach did this or that player did that.   

 

And I believe in Sullivan's case, as the years went by it became more and more difficult to tell those stories, because fewer and fewer athletes and coaches would talk to him.   When a new guy joins the team and is learning the ropes, you better believe that among things the vets tell him are whom you can trust and whom you can't.    You could hear it in Rex's first press conferences when he became HC.   He'd already had some experience with the folks who covered the Bills, and he was cautious and defensive with Sully and others from day one.   

 

If you're Kyle Williams, do you tell your story to Gaughan or Sullivan?  No brainer.   The tougher question is whether Sullivan even would have been interested in hearing his story.   

 

"I am RIghters" is exactly right.