Tyrod Taylor: I still feel that I’d done more than enough to stay

[fansince88]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm really tired of this argument.  Per you, Drew Brees should have been thrown out of the league after 2003: 3 games under 100 passing yards and 4 more under 200 yds (an additional game that just squeaked over that benchmark 202), out of only 11 games started.  Average of only 191 yds passing.  Brees clearly wasn't doing enough to stay on an NFL team.  Ship the bum out of town.  Next year, pro bowl, "comeback player of the year".  Two years later, moves to N'Orleans and the rest is history.

 

I'm not arguing that the Bills should have kept Tyrod nor that he's Drew Brees, just that the criteria cited are (based on history) not good benchmarks for whether or not a guy is capable of quality QB play in the NFL.

I disagree with your disagreeing. The eye test said my eyes couldnt take another TT game. He is gone, I have moved on.

[Stank_Nasty]

39 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes, I agree that we should be fine with Gunner's comment - the offense will be, and should be, conservative until the Bills have an offense that can win opening it up. 

 

And I agree very much about the Steelers protecting Ben.  Ben was something of a train wreck for several seasons off the field, and the Steelers had a lot of patience with him.   I don't think Allen is likely to be an off-field problem, but it may take a while to get him up to speed as an NFL starter.   McDermott is likely to be patient, so long as Allen is working at his craft and improving.   

Up until about 2010 Big Ben had a god awful record when he had to throw the ball more than 30 times. I can’t exactly remember the exact numbers but his win % dropped DRASTICALLY. So much so that always remember the graphic popping up during games when it was happening. 

 

He really was helped along for quite some time. During that said span he was just extremely freaking clutch. I mean I remember a good 3 or 4 year span when his numbers were pedestrian at best but there wasn’t a qb in the league I would take over him in crunch time. Heck, he was clutch all year back in 08 when they won the title and his regular season numbers were 3100 yds 17td and 15int.

 

People forget how long it really took him to be who he is now and how good the teams were that he used to have around him. I’ll buy a ticket on that train all day though..... again. That’s best case scenario, obviously 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[BuffaloTX]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm really tired of this argument.  Per you, Drew Brees should have been thrown out of the league after 2003: 3 games under 100 passing yards and 4 more under 200 yds (an additional game that just squeaked over that benchmark 202), out of only 11 games started.  Average of only 191 yds passing.  Brees clearly wasn't doing enough to stay on an NFL team.  Ship the bum out of town.  Next year, pro bowl, "comeback player of the year".  Two years later, moves to N'Orleans and the rest is history.

 

I'm not arguing that the Bills should have kept Tyrod nor that he's Drew Brees, just that the criteria cited are (based on history) not good benchmarks for whether or not a guy is capable of quality QB play in the NFL.

15 years ago.......Back then defenses could actually play D still.

[The_Dude]

57 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

But am I wrong?

[Zebrastripes]

2 hours ago, Young34 said:

 

Please stop with yards only garbage. In Brady's first three seasons as a starter, he threw for 14 games under 200 yards. This clearly isn't a sole metric to judge off of.

 

Edit: To be clear, his first three entire seasons as a starter. This isn't counting Brady's first year when he took over mid-season, which would have a higher count of low yardage games.

Everyone that has argued yards doesn't matter doesn't take into account the fact Tyrod regressed from season 1 to season 3 as a starter.  Every example people use such as Brady and Brees is nonsense because both of these guys showed steady improvement from year 1 and beyond.  Brees did have the hiccup in year 2 as a starter but showed steady improvement in year 3 and beyond.

Plus let's take a look at average passing yards per game from then until now.  I bet there is a difference.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Zebrastripes

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

   I don't want ANY player who feels he's done more than enough when the team hasn't done enough!   I don't care about stats, personal  accomplishments, community involvement., whatever.  The team didn't do enough, therefor YOU didn't do enough.   When we have a team where everyone on the roster feels that way, we'll have a winner.  And I feel Mcbean is trying to build that kind of roster.

[swnybillsfan]

11 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Moving on was the right decision for both sides. Tyrod handled himself with class as always. The Bills handled it the right way by keeping him in the loop. 

i think this is exactly right. he is a good qb, and a great guy. under the right circumstances, i think he could be a really good qb. but you would absolutely have to design a specific offense around his skillset. the bills decided they wanted to build around a more traditional passing game with a pocket passer and a different skillset, or at least a different set of physical, and possibly mental, tools. i was glad to see that the situation was handled well from the bills side, i thought taylor always handled himself with class. wish him success in cleveland and wherever he lands after that.

[Shaw66]

33 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

   I don't want ANY player who feels he's done more than enough when the team hasn't done enough!   I don't care about stats, personal  accomplishments, community involvement., whatever.  The team didn't do enough, therefor YOU didn't do enough.   When we have a team where everyone on the roster feels that way, we'll have a winner.  And I feel Mcbean is trying to build that kind of roster.

He said he'd done enough to deserve to stay.  That's different from saying he'd done enough to win.  If Shady said he'd done more than enough to do deserve to stay, would you trade him?

 

There's nothing wrong with what Taylor said. 

[BringBackOrton]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

He said he'd done enough to deserve to stay.  That's different from saying he'd done enough to win.  If Shady said he'd done more than enough to do deserve to stay, would you trade him?

 

There's nothing wrong with what Taylor said. 

Except for being wrong.

[Lfod]

16 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

He said he'd done enough to deserve to stay.  That's different from saying he'd done enough to win.  If Shady said he'd done more than enough to do deserve to stay, would you trade him?

 

There's nothing wrong with what Taylor said. 

I agree. Especially if he is just answering questions being asked to him. I think it's redundant to keep asking him questions about Buffalo. I really believe he was doing the best he could do for the team. 

 

It just wasn't good enough and I still would of rather had the 3rd round pick. I believe he will do his best for the Cleveland Browns and I still don't think it will be good enough to secure any kind of job security. 

 

I may not have liked Tyrod the QB but I have a ton of respect for Tyrod the person. I think people should keep in mind that at least the guy loved the Bills and wanted to be our starting QB and probably still wishes he was. 

 

I personally draw the line and criticism of Tyrod the human being. He is a great individual. I really wish he was more successful in Buffalo in his time here. 

Edited June 3, 2018 by Lfod

[Shaw66]

10 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Except for being wrong.

That's true.  He admitted that the people who made the decision didn't agree with him.  He just doesn't share their opinion, nor, apparently, yours.  

 

He's entitled to his opinion, as are you.

[row_33]

29 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

He said he'd done enough to deserve to stay.  That's different from saying he'd done enough to win.  If Shady said he'd done more than enough to do deserve to stay, would you trade him?

 

There's nothing wrong with what Taylor said. 

 

Tyrod never ever said the wrong thing, much to his credit, he went through a lot and kept clam.

 

it was just all the pain he caused having to watch him play.

 

i guess it was better to not watch and cherry pick and manipulate stats and feel he was a great QB....

 

[grb]

57 minutes ago, Zebrastripes said:

Everyone that has argued yards doesn't matter doesn't take into account the fact Tyrod regressed from season 1 to season 3 as a starter.  Every example people use such as Brady and Brees is nonsense because both of these guys showed steady improvement from year 1 and beyond.  Brees did have the hiccup in year 2 as a starter but showed steady improvement in year 3 and beyond.

Plus let's take a look at average passing yards per game from then until now.  I bet there is a difference.

 

The Bills put much less offensive talent on the field with Taylor each successive season. A lot of this was injuries, but some of it was indifference with the players they let walk. It's interesting to see how far people go to ignore this fact, which is a 500lb gorilla sitting in the room. Recently I had multiple exchanges with another poster over Taylor's deep game. He :

• Admitted Taylor had a  excellent deep ball in '15
• Admitted Taylor's deep threat sat half the '16 season injured.
• Admitted Taylor's deep threat played w/ a severe injury when he was back on the field (after first trying to claim he was "cured" when he came back)
• Admitted Taylor didn't have a deep threat in '17

So the fact TT's deep game got worse from '15 to '16' to '17 is perfectly understandable in light of the above?

Not a chance. This guy claimed that was all a coincidence. Taylor "regressed".

It must have required an effort to ignore the common sense of it, but that was the conclusion he wanted......

[Big Gun]

4 hours ago, grb said:

 

Here we go again : "you still see the same limitations no matter who is on the field"

 

Really? Taylor had Watkins and Woods on the field only fifteen games over two years. That's only time he ever played with a legitimate number One & Two receiver of decent NFL grade. His remaining time as a Bill he had receivers delivered to the stadium by ambulance from the local intensive care ward. Or scrappings from other team's practice squad. Plus one very over-whelmed under-performing rookie. So, I guess it's informative to see how he performed those 15 games in '15 and '16 :

• 63.6% comp. 8.25 ypa. 27 TD passes. 6 int

Of course that's an imperfect yardstick to grade a quarterback even if it addresses the comment above, so perhaps it's better to take the single season of '15, when Taylor was 7th by NFL passer rating and averaged 8 yards an attempt. Here's the bottom line :

• Taylor gets no credit here for playing well the very limited time the Bills put a decent offensive team around him.
• Taylor gets no credit here for wins, which supposedly (always) had nothing to do with him. Strangely, the exact opposite was true of losses
• Taylor gets no credit here for the Bills going to the playoffs. No contribution whatsoever......

So you'd think it's impossible for Taylor to get any credit at all, but that shows a poor understanding of Billsy Mentality. There's one exception :

• Success on another team.

 

 

 

Blah blah blah.... and then the league figured him out.

 

31 out of 44 games as a Buffalo Bill he passed for 1 or less TDs. 

 

He sucks and is now the Browns problem. Thank god!

Edited June 3, 2018 by PeterGriffin

[Zebrastripes]

2 minutes ago, grb said:

 

The Bills put much less offensive talent on the field with Taylor each successive season. A lot of this was injuries, but some of it was indifference with the players they let walk. It's interesting to see how far people go to ignore this fact, which is a 500lb gorilla sitting in the room. Recently I had multiple exchanges with another poster over Taylor's deep game. He :

• Admitted Taylor had a  excellent deep ball in '15
• Admitted Taylor's deep threat sat half the '16 season injured.
• Admitted Taylor's deep threat played w/ a severe injury when he was back on the field (after first trying to claim he was "cured" when he came back)
• Admitted Taylor didn't have a deep threat in '17

So the fact TT's deep game got worse from '15 to '16' to '17 is perfectly understandable in light of the above?

Not a chance. This guy claimed that was all a coincidence. Taylor "regressed".

It must have required an effort to ignore the common sense of it, but that was the conclusion he wanted......

Not gonna disagree with any of that.  Problem is Tyrod had far greater issues then just his deep ball.  Plus I am a firm believer in the idea that the qb makes the wr not the other way around.  Just look at what Robert Woods did this year.  Tyrod had both Woods and Watkins on his team just like Goff did and look at the difference in production from them two.

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

He said he'd done enough to deserve to stay.  That's different from saying he'd done enough to win.  If Shady said he'd done more than enough to do deserve to stay, would you trade him?

 

There's nothing wrong with what Taylor said. 

 you're right, and  I don't mean to denigrate him as a person, he may be a wonderful human being.   I just want a team where every player absolutely hates to lose, and takes each and every loss personally.  Players who tell us what they deserve  just rub me the wrong way.

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

Bottom line is TT could not throw open an NFL Receiver. He was limited in the pocket and the offense needed to be Taylor'ed to his strengths instead of running a diverse modern pro offense. TT kept plays alive with his legs, kept defenses off balance with his legs and limited turnovers. But unfortunately when the game relied on TT's arm, we lost. The only OC to use TT's strengths was Anthony Lynn and it was a sufficient enough offense to get by if the D had been better.  Dennison and TT were a match made in hell and it showed. This is why they are both gone. I'd rather see what Allen can do, then play habit insanity with TT.

[reddogblitz]

48 minutes ago, Zebrastripes said:

Plus I am a firm believer in the idea that the qb makes the wr not the other way around.  Just look at what Robert Woods did this year.  Tyrod had both Woods and Watkins on his team just like Goff did and look at the difference in production from them two.

 

Goff's team has a passing game guru as HC/OC.  Hotrod's had a ball control IF and OC. I think that figures in somehow.

 

As to the bolded, It takes 2 baby.

[Zebrastripes]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Goff's team has a passing game guru as HC/OC.  Hotrod's had a ball control IF and OC. I think that figures in somehow.

 

As to the bolded, It takes 2 baby.

As far as it taking 2 what about all the guys that didn't produce with teams until they had Brady as their qb.

[Steptide]

Serious question. Is there anyone here that wishes Tyrod was still our starting quarterback? 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

 

Tyrod never ever said the wrong thing, much to his credit, he went through a lot and kept clam.

 

it was just all the pain he caused having to watch him play.

 

i guess it was better to not watch and cherry pick and manipulate stats and feel he was a great QB....

 

I hope you're not talking about me.  I never cherry picked stats.

 

I'm a passer rating guy. I said after his first year in Buffalo that if he had a passer rating in the top 10 every season, like he did his first seaon, I'd take him in a heartbeat.  He wasn't close the next two seasons, and now he's gone.  May or may not have been his fault, but that's unimportant.   He wasn't getting the job done.  

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

That's true.  He admitted that the people who made the decision didn't agree with him.  He just doesn't share their opinion, nor, apparently, yours.  

 

He's entitled to his opinion, as are you.

Everyone has a right to be wrong.

[reddogblitz]

32 minutes ago, Zebrastripes said:

As far as it taking 2 what about all the guys that didn't produce with teams until they had Brady as their qb.

 

who was throwing them the football before they got there?

[Zebrastripes]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

who was throwing them the football before they got there?

That's my point.  Sub par qb play leads to sub par wr play.  A good qb can make a wr look better than they are.  I know there are some exceptions to this but as a norm a good qb can make a wr perform much better.

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Commonsense said:

Keenum was decent, he has some weapons in Denver, that is my pick of the year for win totals. I have them closer 10 than I do 7.

 

Keenum offers more presnap than Taylor and played better than most folks give him credit for. 

 

 

I agree. I was advocating for signing him last offseason. I thought he played better than the numbers showed in LA the year before too. 

[Teddy KGB]

4 hours ago, stuvian said:

 

I also still think he is more talented than he has shown us so far.

 

Yea he’s just playing possum 

 

Year 12 is when those talents will soar 

[Bing Bong]

14 hours ago, Zebrastripes said:

Two games with under 100 passing yards and 6 more with under 200 really isn't doing enough to stay on a NFL team.

14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Compared to McCarron Taylor is probably objectively correct, and IMO that belief is probably one of the main reasons he was shipped out.  If Taylor were benched for a rookie who then struggled, Taylor might have been outspoken about it and even brought up the race card as he did last fall, which would have been divisive to the team.  I think in the Bills opinion, McCarron is much more likely to be a "good soldier" about any coaching decisions the team makes.

 

Regarding that playoff game, one might wish to consider that Bortles was 34-155 with 75 yd net passing.  "But Bortles sucks too !" you might say, except that he sucked to the tune of hanging up 378 yds on the Steelers and 374 on the Pats in subsequent games.  My point is JUST MAYBE the weather conditions in Jax had something to do with the passing performance on both sides in that game.

Tyrod was alright on a team with a bad quarterback situation and little help other than cogs and shady

He wasn't good enough consistently either.

[Gugny]

15 hours ago, THE SLAMMER said:

Tyrod Taylor: I still feel that I’d done more than enough to stay

Posted by Charean Williams on June 1, 2018, 9:06 PM EDT

AP

Tyrod Taylor felt he did “more than enough to stay” in Buffalo, but Bills coach Sean McDermott made a decision to move on. Taylor now is the starter in Cleveland for however long he is the starter in Cleveland, and AJ McCarron and Josh Allen have arrived in Buffalo.

Vic Carucci of the Buffalo News asked Taylor when he realized he wasn’t McDermott’s guy.

“Whether I was or whether I wasn’t, I’m not there anymore,” Taylor said. “That’s his decision moving forward. I still feel that I’d done more than enough to stay where I was. But at the end of the day, they made a decision to move forward, and that’s their decision.”

Taylor said McDermott and General Manager Brandon Beane kept him informed of trade talks before the Bills sent him to the Browns on March 9. He said the phone conversation informing him of the trade “wasn’t a bad one.”

“There was actually a positive energy on both sides,” Taylor said.

Taylor has moved on like the Bills have moved on, ready to try to do in Cleveland what he did in Buffalo in helping end the Bills’ long playoff drought.

“I’m excited, happy with the place that I’m at now and the team that I’m playing for, and I’m excited about the opportunity,” he said.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/01/tyrod-taylor-i-still-feel-that-id-done-more-than-enough-to-stay/

 

Very classy and professional comments.  I wish him well in his future endeavors.  I'm just glad those endeavors won't take place in New York State.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

14 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Very classy and professional comments.  I wish him well in his future endeavors.  I'm just glad those endeavors won't take place in New York State.

Yes...less of a tax bite on the poor fellow.

[twoandfourteen]

17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm really tired of this argument.  Per you, Drew Brees should have been thrown out of the league after 2003: 3 games under 100 passing yards and 4 more under 200 yds (an additional game that just squeaked over that benchmark 202), out of only 11 games started.  Average of only 191 yds passing.  Brees clearly wasn't doing enough to stay on an NFL team.  Ship the bum out of town.  Next year, pro bowl, "comeback player of the year".  Two years later, moves to N'Orleans and the rest is history.

 

I'm not arguing that the Bills should have kept Tyrod nor that he's Drew Brees, just that the criteria cited are (based on history) not good benchmarks for whether or not a guy is capable of quality QB play in the NFL.

 

Football in 2017 is far different than it was in 2003. 

 

300 yards passing in a game was still a bit of an accomplishment 15 years ago. Today, 300 yards in a game is pretty routine for even the most average of QBs.

 

 it's a passing league -- coincidentally, Brees' career took off just as the league rules started to evolve to favor the QBs and the passing game. 

 

Your point sounds good on the surface, but you and I both know that it's not really that applicable. 

 

(Also, even in that harder-to-pass era, Brees averaged more passing yards per game than our hero, TT.)

 

(Even Kelly Holcomb was able to put up a couple 300yd games & a 400 yd game. You mean to tell me TT couldn't get there at least one time in regulation?)

Edited June 3, 2018 by twoandfourteen

[twoandfourteen]

15 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Ah, ok, so now we're into what we see on the field when he throws or doesn't throw.  I'm all on board with that as a metric.

 

(in his 3rd year in the league, Brees was held to have regressed, as seen by the metric you cited - he had no games under 100 yds his previous year, his 1st as a starter)

 

Brees was the guy I chose for precise reasons.  Between his 2nd and 3rd years in the league (1st and 2nd years starting) he hit all the marks the OP cited as "doesn't belong on an NFL team".  In fact, San Diego believed he probably couldn't play in the league, which is why they drafted a QB in the 1st after that season.  It wasn't a case of "a few games here and there not raising the fans ire", it was a case of expecting him to progress, but seeing him regress and having a consistently BAD season, a 2108 yd season.  In San Diego, Brees was NOT that 4000 yd passing QB.  He averaged 205, 192, and 210 ypg (the 210 ypg was his "comeback player of the year" pro bowl season).

 

I have no argument that we needed more from the QB position than Taylor was showing us and it was time to move on. 

 

My point is that people say all kinds of pretty silly stuff to justify it, stuff that's not bourne out by looking at the initial 3 years of starting for a number of now legendary QB.  And it wouldn't shock me if under Haley, Taylor showed a  jump - though I don't think Mayfield is going to sit politely on the bench behind him.  That is going to be an "interesting" QB room.

 

How dare people use passing yards to assess the performance of a QB?

 

What's next -- using the number points each team scores to determine which one won the game? 

 

Let's go to the tape! Breakdown that video! 

 

 

[twoandfourteen]

5 hours ago, swnybillsfan said:

i think this is exactly right. he is a good qb, and a great guy. under the right circumstances, i think he could be a really good qb. but you would absolutely have to design a specific offense around his skillset. the bills decided they wanted to build around a more traditional passing game with a pocket passer and a different skillset, or at least a different set of physical, and possibly mental, tools. i was glad to see that the situation was handled well from the bills side, i thought taylor always handled himself with class. wish him success in cleveland and wherever he lands after that.

 

It's called the "wishbone".

 

 

[grb]

5 hours ago, Zebrastripes said:

Not gonna disagree with any of that.  Problem is Tyrod had far greater issues then just his deep ball.  Plus I am a firm believer in the idea that the qb makes the wr not the other way around.  Just look at what Robert Woods did this year.  Tyrod had both Woods and Watkins on his team just like Goff did and look at the difference in production from them two.

 

You know, I understand why you say that. It's what everyone else around here is saying, so it has to be true, right?

 

However, what happens when you actually look? We can't use 2016. Watkins spent half the season on injured reserve / half playing on a broken left foot (with Woods also injured about half the year as well) So let's compare 2015 Taylor, vs 2017 Goff :

• Sammy Watkins :  2015 : 60 recp,  1047 yds,  17.5 ypc, 9 tds
• Sammy Watkins :  2017 : 39 recp,    593 yds,  15.2 ypc, 8 tds
• Robert Woods    :  2015 : 47 recp,     552 yds,  11.7 ypc, 3 tds
• Robert Woods    :  2017 : 56 recp,     781 yds,  13.9 ypc, 5 tds

So then we do the obvious, and compare Taylor vs Goff re W&W :

• W&W : 2015  : 107 recp,  1599 yds, 14.94 ypc, 12 tds
• W&W : 2017  :   95 recp,  1374 yds, 14.46 ypc, 13 tds

Not the numbers you expected to see, amirite?

 

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by grb

[grb]

19 hours ago, Zebrastripes said:

Two games with under 100 passing yards and 6 more with under 200 really isn't doing enough to stay on a NFL team.

 

Is this a Taylor-specific rule, or does it apply to other players and positions?

If so, let's look at a running back in the 2017 season :

 

Panthers : 12 carries,   09 yards    0.75 ypa

Broncos  :  14 carries,   21 yards   1.50 ypa

Jets         :  12 carries,   25 yards   2.08 ypa

Chiefs     :   22 carries,   49 yards   2.23 ypa

Dolphins :   20 carries,   50 yards   2.50 ypa

Dolphins :   11 carries    10 yards   0.91 ypa

 

Said running back got 27% of his season's yards in just two games, which is how he could amass the horror show above. Now : Before heads explode, let me be clear : I think LeSean McCoy is a national treasure, whose visage should be on Mt Rushmore. And there are so many caveats to this list : The worst games are the ones up-top, when the Bills still suffered the strongest effects of a dim-witted scheme change to the blocking. McCoy was out with an injury half the last Dolphin game, so take that into account. Plus, running backs need holes to run thru, which McCoy frequently did not have. So context is important in this case. Just like it doesn't hurt to consider a quarterback was playing with a bad offensive coordinator, spotty pass protection, a tight end who missed a quarter of the season (and could rarely practice otherwise), and one of the worst sets of receivers in the National Football League.

 

Context !!!  After all, a feature running back averaging 27.3 yards at 1.82 yards a carry over six games of a season might fail to meet your lofty standards.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by grb

[Boca BIlls]

Tyrod is as good as he is going to get, just like Fitz was as good as he was going to get. Some QBs just can't get past mediocre, nothing against them but it takes a special talent to get to the next level.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

Your point sounds good on the surface, but you and I both know that it's not really that applicable. 

 

How about if you speak for you, and I'll speak for me?

While you're speaking for you, feel free to name those "most average of QBs" today who routinely throw >300 yds a game.

 
You make it sound as though Drew Brees had a crap season in 2003 because "the game was different" and QB just struggled.  That's horseradish. 

 

Let's pick a guy in 2003, Trent Green - I think most of us would call him a pretty "average QB" - who threw 5 300 yd games that season, in what would be the first of 3 -4000 yd seasons.  In contrast, Drew Brees had poor stats in 2003 because he just struggled.  He was a spread offense QB at Purdue and he had trouble adjusting to the pro game.

 

I could go on, but I think I'll wait to see what you like to bring to the table in the way of research or facts.

 

 

4 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

(Also, even in that harder-to-pass era, Brees averaged more passing yards per game than our hero, TT.)

 

Brees in 2003: 191.6 Taylor in 2017: 186.6  Wow, big difference. 

 

And again, speak for yourself - Taylor is not my hero, my point is simply that looking at a QB having a year with low yardage games, may or may not indicate that a QB doesn't belong in the NFL or a team should move on from him.

[bills522]

I think the Browns are on track to rack up anywhere from 6-9 wins this year with that offense as is...it's solid, but Tyrod will have those games where he cannot hit water if he fell out of a boat, and that's not the ceiling the Bills FO were content with retaining.  Now... that's still miles ahead of the worst football they've experienced in Cleveland over the past decade, so they have every right to feel optimistic about the future...but even THEIR front office sees Tyrod as a bridge QB until Mayfield's ready, which you gotta believe is next year, if not sooner. 

 

Did Tyrod conduct himself in a professional manner? Did he assume the leadership role, and give everything he had to offer to the team?

Damn right he did, or at least it seemed that way to me... if that's considered 'enough to stay' then sure, he did absolutely enough to stay.

 

But it seems really apparent a lot of the league knows at this point what Tyrod is, and what his ceiling is...he's a serviceable, productive (albeit middling) QB in the right scheme, and he'll lead you to average results with his athleticism until his body gives out, ..but he takes a lot of hits...he's tough, but nobody with his frame can withstand that kind of punishment forever. 

 

I think the best situation for both parties is what transpired - Tyrod gets another kick at the can at being an NFL starter with the confidence of a front office behind him, and the Bills get a fresh look at some QBs that better suit the scheme they wanna run with a much higher passer ceiling that can become attainable.  No bad blood on either side, I hope - I wish him the absolute best and thank him for years of hard work and dedication, and conversely I'm excited to see where the Bills develop from here.       

ps - I think I'd still be more excited to see Rosen in there over Allen at this point but nobody really knows a damn thing 'til the real bullets start flying so screw it, go Bills either way

[formerlyofCtown]

Obviously not.

5 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Football in 2017 is far different than it was in 2003. 

 

300 yards passing in a game was still a bit of an accomplishment 15 years ago. Today, 300 yards in a game is pretty routine for even the most average of QBs.

 

 it's a passing league -- coincidentally, Brees' career took off just as the league rules started to evolve to favor the QBs and the passing game. 

 

Your point sounds good on the surface, but you and I both know that it's not really that applicable. 

 

(Also, even in that harder-to-pass era, Brees averaged more passing yards per game than our hero, TT.)

 

(Even Kelly Holcomb was able to put up a couple 300yd games & a 400 yd game. You mean to tell me TT couldn't get there at least one time in regulation?)

You don't need to be a 300 yard passer.  You need to be clutch which he wasn't.

[Zebrastripes]

6 hours ago, grb said:

 

You know, I understand why you say that. It's what everyone else around here is saying, so it has to be true, right?

 

However, what happens when you actually look? We can't use 2016. Watkins spent half the season on injured reserve / half playing on a broken left foot (with Woods also injured about half the year as well) So let's compare 2015 Taylor, vs 2017 Goff :

• Sammy Watkins :  2015 : 60 recp,  1047 yds,  17.5 ypc, 9 tds
• Sammy Watkins :  2017 : 39 recp,    593 yds,  15.2 ypc, 8 tds
• Robert Woods    :  2015 : 47 recp,     552 yds,  11.7 ypc, 3 tds
• Robert Woods    :  2017 : 56 recp,     781 yds,  13.9 ypc, 5 tds

So then we do the obvious, and compare Taylor vs Goff re W&W :

• W&W : 2015  : 107 recp,  1599 yds, 14.94 ypc, 12 tds
• W&W : 2017  :   95 recp,  1374 yds, 14.46 ypc, 13 tds

Not the numbers you expected to see, amirite?

 

 

I actually looked these up myself.  The biggest problem with these numbers and comparing them directly with the Bills years is the fact that woods and Watkins were the 3rd and 4th leading receiver on the Rams.  When they were on the Bills they were the first and second.  

[Big Gun]

7 hours ago, grb said:

 

You know, I understand why you say that. It's what everyone else around here is saying, so it has to be true, right?

 

However, what happens when you actually look? We can't use 2016. Watkins spent half the season on injured reserve / half playing on a broken left foot (with Woods also injured about half the year as well) So let's compare 2015 Taylor, vs 2017 Goff :

• Sammy Watkins :  2015 : 60 recp,  1047 yds,  17.5 ypc, 9 tds
• Sammy Watkins :  2017 : 39 recp,    593 yds,  15.2 ypc, 8 tds
• Robert Woods    :  2015 : 47 recp,     552 yds,  11.7 ypc, 3 tds
• Robert Woods    :  2017 : 56 recp,     781 yds,  13.9 ypc, 5 tds

So then we do the obvious, and compare Taylor vs Goff re W&W :

• W&W : 2015  : 107 recp,  1599 yds, 14.94 ypc, 12 tds
• W&W : 2017  :   95 recp,  1374 yds, 14.46 ypc, 13 tds

Not the numbers you expected to see, amirite?

 

 

Remember when EJ started 2 games in 2015

 

RW had 13/131 yards 1 TD

SW had 4/48 yards 1 TD

 

So their corrected numbers with Tyrod in 2015 are 

 

RW had 34/421 yards 2 TD

SW had 56/999 yards 8 TD

 

So no you are not right!

 

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by PeterGriffin