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Tyrod Taylor: I still feel that I’d done more than enough to stay

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14 hours ago, Zebrastripes said:

Two games with under 100 passing yards and 6 more with under 200 really isn't doing enough to stay on a NFL team.

14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Compared to McCarron Taylor is probably objectively correct, and IMO that belief is probably one of the main reasons he was shipped out.  If Taylor were benched for a rookie who then struggled, Taylor might have been outspoken about it and even brought up the race card as he did last fall, which would have been divisive to the team.  I think in the Bills opinion, McCarron is much more likely to be a "good soldier" about any coaching decisions the team makes.

 

Regarding that playoff game, one might wish to consider that Bortles was 34-155 with 75 yd net passing.  "But Bortles sucks too !" you might say, except that he sucked to the tune of hanging up 378 yds on the Steelers and 374 on the Pats in subsequent games.  My point is JUST MAYBE the weather conditions in Jax had something to do with the passing performance on both sides in that game.

Tyrod was alright on a team with a bad quarterback situation and little help other than cogs and shady

He wasn't good enough consistently either.

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15 hours ago, THE SLAMMER said:

Tyrod Taylor: I still feel that I’d done more than enough to stay

Posted by Charean Williams on June 1, 2018, 9:06 PM EDT
pft2-e1527901563283.jpg?w=560&h=316&crop
AP

Tyrod Taylor felt he did “more than enough to stay” in Buffalo, but Bills coach Sean McDermott made a decision to move on. Taylor now is the starter in Cleveland for however long he is the starter in Cleveland, and AJ McCarron and Josh Allen have arrived in Buffalo.

Vic Carucci of the Buffalo News asked Taylor when he realized he wasn’t McDermott’s guy.

“Whether I was or whether I wasn’t, I’m not there anymore,” Taylor said. “That’s his decision moving forward. I still feel that I’d done more than enough to stay where I was. But at the end of the day, they made a decision to move forward, and that’s their decision.”

Taylor said McDermott and General Manager Brandon Beane kept him informed of trade talks before the Bills sent him to the Browns on March 9. He said the phone conversation informing him of the trade “wasn’t a bad one.”

“There was actually a positive energy on both sides,” Taylor said.

Taylor has moved on like the Bills have moved on, ready to try to do in Cleveland what he did in Buffalo in helping end the Bills’ long playoff drought.

“I’m excited, happy with the place that I’m at now and the team that I’m playing for, and I’m excited about the opportunity,” he said.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/01/tyrod-taylor-i-still-feel-that-id-done-more-than-enough-to-stay/

 

Very classy and professional comments.  I wish him well in his future endeavors.  I'm just glad those endeavors won't take place in New York State.

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14 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Very classy and professional comments.  I wish him well in his future endeavors.  I'm just glad those endeavors won't take place in New York State.

Yes...less of a tax bite on the poor fellow.

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17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm really tired of this argument.  Per you, Drew Brees should have been thrown out of the league after 2003: 3 games under 100 passing yards and 4 more under 200 yds (an additional game that just squeaked over that benchmark 202), out of only 11 games started.  Average of only 191 yds passing.  Brees clearly wasn't doing enough to stay on an NFL team.  Ship the bum out of town.  Next year, pro bowl, "comeback player of the year".  Two years later, moves to N'Orleans and the rest is history.

 

I'm not arguing that the Bills should have kept Tyrod nor that he's Drew Brees, just that the criteria cited are (based on history) not good benchmarks for whether or not a guy is capable of quality QB play in the NFL.

 

Football in 2017 is far different than it was in 2003. 

 

300 yards passing in a game was still a bit of an accomplishment 15 years ago. Today, 300 yards in a game is pretty routine for even the most average of QBs.

 

 it's a passing league -- coincidentally, Brees' career took off just as the league rules started to evolve to favor the QBs and the passing game. 

 

Your point sounds good on the surface, but you and I both know that it's not really that applicable. 

 

(Also, even in that harder-to-pass era, Brees averaged more passing yards per game than our hero, TT.)

 

(Even Kelly Holcomb was able to put up a couple 300yd games & a 400 yd game. You mean to tell me TT couldn't get there at least one time in regulation?)

Edited by twoandfourteen

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15 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Ah, ok, so now we're into what we see on the field when he throws or doesn't throw.  I'm all on board with that as a metric.

 

(in his 3rd year in the league, Brees was held to have regressed, as seen by the metric you cited - he had no games under 100 yds his previous year, his 1st as a starter)

 

Brees was the guy I chose for precise reasons.  Between his 2nd and 3rd years in the league (1st and 2nd years starting) he hit all the marks the OP cited as "doesn't belong on an NFL team".  In fact, San Diego believed he probably couldn't play in the league, which is why they drafted a QB in the 1st after that season.  It wasn't a case of "a few games here and there not raising the fans ire", it was a case of expecting him to progress, but seeing him regress and having a consistently BAD season, a 2108 yd season.  In San Diego, Brees was NOT that 4000 yd passing QB.  He averaged 205, 192, and 210 ypg (the 210 ypg was his "comeback player of the year" pro bowl season).

 

I have no argument that we needed more from the QB position than Taylor was showing us and it was time to move on. 

 

My point is that people say all kinds of pretty silly stuff to justify it, stuff that's not bourne out by looking at the initial 3 years of starting for a number of now legendary QB.  And it wouldn't shock me if under Haley, Taylor showed a  jump - though I don't think Mayfield is going to sit politely on the bench behind him.  That is going to be an "interesting" QB room.

 

How dare people use passing yards to assess the performance of a QB?

 

What's next -- using the number points each team scores to determine which one won the game? 

 

Let's go to the tape! Breakdown that video! 

 

 

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5 hours ago, swnybillsfan said:

i think this is exactly right. he is a good qb, and a great guy. under the right circumstances, i think he could be a really good qb. but you would absolutely have to design a specific offense around his skillset. the bills decided they wanted to build around a more traditional passing game with a pocket passer and a different skillset, or at least a different set of physical, and possibly mental, tools. i was glad to see that the situation was handled well from the bills side, i thought taylor always handled himself with class. wish him success in cleveland and wherever he lands after that.

 

It's called the "wishbone".

 

 

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5 hours ago, Zebrastripes said:

Not gonna disagree with any of that.  Problem is Tyrod had far greater issues then just his deep ball.  Plus I am a firm believer in the idea that the qb makes the wr not the other way around.  Just look at what Robert Woods did this year.  Tyrod had both Woods and Watkins on his team just like Goff did and look at the difference in production from them two.

 

You know, I understand why you say that. It's what everyone else around here is saying, so it has to be true, right?

 

However, what happens when you actually look? We can't use 2016. Watkins spent half the season on injured reserve / half playing on a broken left foot (with Woods also injured about half the year as well) So let's compare 2015 Taylor, vs 2017 Goff :

  • Sammy Watkins :  2015 : 60 recp,  1047 yds,  17.5 ypc, 9 tds
  • Sammy Watkins :  2017 : 39 recp,    593 yds,  15.2 ypc, 8 tds
  • Robert Woods    :  2015 : 47 recp,     552 yds,  11.7 ypc, 3 tds
  • Robert Woods    :  2017 : 56 recp,     781 yds,  13.9 ypc, 5 tds

So then we do the obvious, and compare Taylor vs Goff re W&W :

  • W&W : 2015  : 107 recp,  1599 yds, 14.94 ypc, 12 tds
  • W&W : 2017  :   95 recp,  1374 yds, 14.46 ypc, 13 tds

Not the numbers you expected to see, amirite?

 

 

Edited by grb

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19 hours ago, Zebrastripes said:

Two games with under 100 passing yards and 6 more with under 200 really isn't doing enough to stay on a NFL team.

 

Is this a Taylor-specific rule, or does it apply to other players and positions?

If so, let's look at a running back in the 2017 season :

 

Panthers : 12 carries,   09 yards    0.75 ypa

Broncos  :  14 carries,   21 yards   1.50 ypa

Jets         :  12 carries,   25 yards   2.08 ypa

Chiefs     :   22 carries,   49 yards   2.23 ypa

Dolphins :   20 carries,   50 yards   2.50 ypa

Dolphins :   11 carries    10 yards   0.91 ypa

 

Said running back got 27% of his season's yards in just two games, which is how he could amass the horror show above. Now : Before heads explode, let me be clear : I think LeSean McCoy is a national treasure, whose visage should be on Mt Rushmore. And there are so many caveats to this list : The worst games are the ones up-top, when the Bills still suffered the strongest effects of a dim-witted scheme change to the blocking. McCoy was out with an injury half the last Dolphin game, so take that into account. Plus, running backs need holes to run thru, which McCoy frequently did not have. So context is important in this case. Just like it doesn't hurt to consider a quarterback was playing with a bad offensive coordinator, spotty pass protection, a tight end who missed a quarter of the season (and could rarely practice otherwise), and one of the worst sets of receivers in the National Football League.

 

Context !!!  After all, a feature running back averaging 27.3 yards at 1.82 yards a carry over six games of a season might fail to meet your lofty standards.

 

 

 

 

Edited by grb

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Tyrod is as good as he is going to get, just like Fitz was as good as he was going to get. Some QBs just can't get past mediocre, nothing against them but it takes a special talent to get to the next level.

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4 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

Your point sounds good on the surface, but you and I both know that it's not really that applicable. 

 

How about if you speak for you, and I'll speak for me?

While you're speaking for you, feel free to name those "most average of QBs" today who routinely throw >300 yds a game.

 
You make it sound as though Drew Brees had a crap season in 2003 because "the game was different" and QB just struggled.  That's horseradish. 

 

Let's pick a guy in 2003, Trent Green - I think most of us would call him a pretty "average QB" - who threw 5 300 yd games that season, in what would be the first of 3 -4000 yd seasons.  In contrast, Drew Brees had poor stats in 2003 because he just struggled.  He was a spread offense QB at Purdue and he had trouble adjusting to the pro game.

 

I could go on, but I think I'll wait to see what you like to bring to the table in the way of research or facts.

 

 

4 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

(Also, even in that harder-to-pass era, Brees averaged more passing yards per game than our hero, TT.)

 

Brees in 2003: 191.6 Taylor in 2017: 186.6  Wow, big difference. 

 

And again, speak for yourself - Taylor is not my hero, my point is simply that looking at a QB having a year with low yardage games, may or may not indicate that a QB doesn't belong in the NFL or a team should move on from him.

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I think the Browns are on track to rack up anywhere from 6-9 wins this year with that offense as is...it's solid, but Tyrod will have those games where he cannot hit water if he fell out of a boat, and that's not the ceiling the Bills FO were content with retaining.  Now... that's still miles ahead of the worst football they've experienced in Cleveland over the past decade, so they have every right to feel optimistic about the future...but even THEIR front office sees Tyrod as a bridge QB until Mayfield's ready, which you gotta believe is next year, if not sooner. 

 

Did Tyrod conduct himself in a professional manner? Did he assume the leadership role, and give everything he had to offer to the team?

Damn right he did, or at least it seemed that way to me... if that's considered 'enough to stay' then sure, he did absolutely enough to stay.

 

But it seems really apparent a lot of the league knows at this point what Tyrod is, and what his ceiling is...he's a serviceable, productive (albeit middling) QB in the right scheme, and he'll lead you to average results with his athleticism until his body gives out, ..but he takes a lot of hits...he's tough, but nobody with his frame can withstand that kind of punishment forever. 

 

I think the best situation for both parties is what transpired - Tyrod gets another kick at the can at being an NFL starter with the confidence of a front office behind him, and the Bills get a fresh look at some QBs that better suit the scheme they wanna run with a much higher passer ceiling that can become attainable.  No bad blood on either side, I hope - I wish him the absolute best and thank him for years of hard work and dedication, and conversely I'm excited to see where the Bills develop from here.       

ps - I think I'd still be more excited to see Rosen in there over Allen at this point but nobody really knows a damn thing 'til the real bullets start flying so screw it, go Bills either way

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Obviously not.

5 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Football in 2017 is far different than it was in 2003. 

 

300 yards passing in a game was still a bit of an accomplishment 15 years ago. Today, 300 yards in a game is pretty routine for even the most average of QBs.

 

 it's a passing league -- coincidentally, Brees' career took off just as the league rules started to evolve to favor the QBs and the passing game. 

 

Your point sounds good on the surface, but you and I both know that it's not really that applicable. 

 

(Also, even in that harder-to-pass era, Brees averaged more passing yards per game than our hero, TT.)

 

(Even Kelly Holcomb was able to put up a couple 300yd games & a 400 yd game. You mean to tell me TT couldn't get there at least one time in regulation?)

You don't need to be a 300 yard passer.  You need to be clutch which he wasn't.

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6 hours ago, grb said:

 

You know, I understand why you say that. It's what everyone else around here is saying, so it has to be true, right?

 

However, what happens when you actually look? We can't use 2016. Watkins spent half the season on injured reserve / half playing on a broken left foot (with Woods also injured about half the year as well) So let's compare 2015 Taylor, vs 2017 Goff :

  • Sammy Watkins :  2015 : 60 recp,  1047 yds,  17.5 ypc, 9 tds
  • Sammy Watkins :  2017 : 39 recp,    593 yds,  15.2 ypc, 8 tds
  • Robert Woods    :  2015 : 47 recp,     552 yds,  11.7 ypc, 3 tds
  • Robert Woods    :  2017 : 56 recp,     781 yds,  13.9 ypc, 5 tds

So then we do the obvious, and compare Taylor vs Goff re W&W :

  • W&W : 2015  : 107 recp,  1599 yds, 14.94 ypc, 12 tds
  • W&W : 2017  :   95 recp,  1374 yds, 14.46 ypc, 13 tds

Not the numbers you expected to see, amirite?

 

 

I actually looked these up myself.  The biggest problem with these numbers and comparing them directly with the Bills years is the fact that woods and Watkins were the 3rd and 4th leading receiver on the Rams.  When they were on the Bills they were the first and second.  

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7 hours ago, grb said:

 

You know, I understand why you say that. It's what everyone else around here is saying, so it has to be true, right?

 

However, what happens when you actually look? We can't use 2016. Watkins spent half the season on injured reserve / half playing on a broken left foot (with Woods also injured about half the year as well) So let's compare 2015 Taylor, vs 2017 Goff :

  • Sammy Watkins :  2015 : 60 recp,  1047 yds,  17.5 ypc, 9 tds
  • Sammy Watkins :  2017 : 39 recp,    593 yds,  15.2 ypc, 8 tds
  • Robert Woods    :  2015 : 47 recp,     552 yds,  11.7 ypc, 3 tds
  • Robert Woods    :  2017 : 56 recp,     781 yds,  13.9 ypc, 5 tds

So then we do the obvious, and compare Taylor vs Goff re W&W :

  • W&W : 2015  : 107 recp,  1599 yds, 14.94 ypc, 12 tds
  • W&W : 2017  :   95 recp,  1374 yds, 14.46 ypc, 13 tds

Not the numbers you expected to see, amirite?

 

 

Remember when EJ started 2 games in 2015

 

RW had 13/131 yards 1 TD

SW had 4/48 yards 1 TD

 

So their corrected numbers with Tyrod in 2015 are 

 

RW had 34/421 yards 2 TD

SW had 56/999 yards 8 TD

 

So no you are not right!

 

 

Edited by PeterGriffin

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11 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Yea he’s just playing possum 

 

Year 12 is when those talents will soar 

 

I honestly think he'll have a Randall Cunningham/Rich Gannon style renaissance

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3 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Obviously not.

You don't need to be a 300 yard passer.  You need to be clutch which he wasn't.

 

I definitely agree about the "clutch" criticism. He was terrible when the Bills were down by even one score -- it was game over. 

 

I don't agree about the 300 yd comment. The ability to produce 300 yards of passing offense in a game at least occasionally in the modern NFL is a bare minimum standard of competence at the position. 

 

During Tyrod's tenure from 2015-2017, 52 NFL QBs produced at least one 300+ yd performance. Tyrod barely made the list, but only because he hit 300 one time -- and it was in OT vs the Dolphins. He was sub-300 at the end of regulation. For reference, Brian Hoyer hit 300+ 7 times. 

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19 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

You wanted to see certain stats from Taylor, others respond with stats, you respond with "a game is more stats."

tenor.gif?itemid=4514176

 

That made me :lol:

 

Nice work.

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5 minutes ago, FearLess Price said:

 

That made me :lol:

 

Nice work.

Having people on ignore sometimes is a hindrance, but the purpose is to avoid the ignorance.  

 

WRT  stats  —  let’s talk about achievements and effectiveness.  

 

When you need to pass and you can’t  then you have a problem.  

 

The ability to pass 300 yards as needed is a good and effective thing.  

 

Is 300 yards more an achievement or a stat.  

 

YPP is a stat.  

3rd down conversion is a stat.  Completion % is a stat that doesn’t account for poorly placed passes. 

 

So the TT people can’t brag on his “great stats” all they want, but when they ignore the incompetence it is confounding.  

 

Having 4 very lousy games in 5 weeks is bad no matter how you look at it.   

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47 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

I definitely agree about the "clutch" criticism. He was terrible when the Bills were down by even one score -- it was game over. 

 

I don't agree about the 300 yd comment. The ability to produce 300 yards of passing offense in a game at least occasionally in the modern NFL is a bare minimum standard of competence at the position. 

 

During Tyrod's tenure from 2015-2017, 52 NFL QBs produced at least one 300+ yd performance. Tyrod barely made the list, but only because he hit 300 one time -- and it was in OT vs the Dolphins. He was sub-300 at the end of regulation. For reference, Brian Hoyer hit 300+ 7 times. 

I know, right.

 

It's not like passing yards aren't used as one of the criteria by the HOF to critique a QB worthiness. 

 

Only in the loony world of Tyrod defenders are QB passing yards not important.  

 

Comedy at it's finest

Edited by PeterGriffin

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1 minute ago, PeterGriffin said:

I know, right.

 

It's not like passing yards aren't used as one of the criteria by the HOF to critique a QB worthiness. 

 

Only in the loony world of Tyrod defenders are passing yards not important.  

 

Comedy at it's finest

 

Is it like saying 

 

200 yards - its not about the size but how you use it.  

For the 7 year vet (Tay Tay) fans it’s a good thing for the 2nd year AJ it’s a bad thing. 

 

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16 hours ago, Zebrastripes said:

Everyone that has argued yards doesn't matter doesn't take into account the fact Tyrod regressed from season 1 to season 3 as a starter.  Every example people use such as Brady and Brees is nonsense because both of these guys showed steady improvement from year 1 and beyond.  Brees did have the hiccup in year 2 as a starter but showed steady improvement in year 3 and beyond.

Plus let's take a look at average passing yards per game from then until now.  I bet there is a difference.

Never once did I say that yards don't matter. What I said was that yards shouldn't be the sole metric for judging a QB off of. There's a ton of data that goes into a QB's performance, and everything should be considered.

 

Btw, Brady regressed in his second full season as starter, so your blanket statement of "steady improvement" year after year isn't necessarily true either, and it doesn't need to be. Every pro QB has hiccup seasons, some just brush it off and move forward, such as Brees who you mentioned. What matters is the final product, which is where Tyrod absolutely didn't pan out. I would've been just find with Tyrod having some rough seasons if he cleaned it up in the end, but he simply regressed year after year.

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On 6/2/2018 at 8:20 AM, Zebrastripes said:

Biggest difference here is tyrod had 3 years and regressed over them 3 years.  He was afraid to make throws or just didnt see open guys.  I should have led with that.  Brees improved from one year to the next.  If brees continued the ame path as the year you stated he would have been out of the league but he didn't he improved where as tyrod did not improve.

 

Do we really need anymore reasons for trading him....says it all

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4 minutes ago, Young34 said:

Btw, Brady regressed in his second full season as starter, so your blanket statement of "steady improvement" year after year isn't necessarily true either, and it doesn't need to be.

Brady (and the team) “regressed” because the Pats gave up on the run that season. 

 

The 3rd season they focused on the run again and the Pats has better success.  

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Young34 said:

Never once did I say that yards don't matter. What I said was that yards shouldn't be the sole metric for judging a QB off of. There's a ton of data that goes into a QB's performance, and everything should be considered.

 

Btw, Brady regressed in his second full season as starter, so your blanket statement of "steady improvement" year after year isn't necessarily true either, and it doesn't need to be. Every pro QB has hiccup seasons, some just brush it off and move forward, such as Brees who you mentioned. What matters is the final product, which is where Tyrod absolutely didn't pan out. I would've been just find with Tyrod having some rough seasons if he cleaned it up in the end, but he simply regressed year after year.

He attempted 80 less passes that year which would coincide with less yards and tds.  His qbr however did go up.

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6 minutes ago, Zebrastripes said:

He attempted 80 less passes that year which would coincide with less yards and tds.  His qbr however did go up.

It did go up from 2002-2003, by .2%. from 2001 - 2002, his QBR dropped off by 10 points.

 

QBR is a rough way to judge QB's though. For example, Tyrod had a much higher QBR than Brady did in each of their first three seasons, which clearly isn't a great example.

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