IDBillzFan Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said: How can anyone have an issue with this story being reported? Everything reported is a fact. That’s the media’s job. I think disclosing that you were indicted by a grand jury for a sexual assault is something that an employer would like to know. Sucks for him if he was innocent, but still something you should come clean about if you got nothing to hide. If everything was reported as fact, the story would be two sentences long. But it's not. Why? Because once you get past the facts, that Patricia is legally innocent, the writer doesn't stop there. The writer MUST push the questions against a legally innocent man. Quote Patricia is legally innocent. Yet the allegation is so terrible that to some people, he’s forever stained. Yet if he was wrongly accused, then he’s the victim. Then again, how could the case proceed as far as it did if nothing happened at all? Do thse sound like facts to you about Patricia's case? No. It sounds like the author has his own ideas of what he thinks should have happened, and needs everyone to follow his train of thought. Did the journalist stop when he stated Patricia was innocent? No. Of course not. Now' let's add more reason to end the story. Quote The woman involved did not respond to repeated attempts for comment from the newspaper. She could certainly come forward and provide details, but it’s been more than two decades since the incident in question. End of story? No. Of course not. Not let's add yet another reason to end the story. Quote “The police chief, lieutenant, grand jury forewoman, prosecutor, assistant prosecutor and defense attorney.” None could recall a thing about it. End of story? No. Of course not. The author needs you to get behind his implied belief that even though Patricia was legally innocent... Quote If Patricia is innocent, then he’s innocent. IF he's innocent? Really? Few people hate all things that have ever sprung from NE*, but this article is irresponsible. Trashy. Clickbait. Embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 This is a bad story because they didn't consult with the alleged victim. They say right in the article "The alleged victim also did not respond to attempts by the News to contact her." Maybe she didn't want to be reminded or have the story spread around 20 years after the fact? And no one who was involved can remember the case. They should have left it alone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tumaro02 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Having recently served for over 18 months on a Grand Jury and having heard dozens of cases. . . while I don't know what happened in this event, I do know that the Grand Jury would not have returned and indictment unless there was overwhelming probable cause to prosecute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 57 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: No conviction. No charges. = No care. This is the world we live in now. !@#$ off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, tumaro02 said: Having recently served for over 18 months on a Grand Jury and having heard dozens of cases. . . while I don't know what happened in this event, I do know that the Grand Jury would not have returned and indictment unless there was overwhelming probable cause to prosecute. You're naive as !@#$ Overwhelming evidence is easy to show from one side when the other can't defend itself and fabrications can be made. It's as old as time "a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich for murder without criticism" GJ's are dumb. Edited May 10, 2018 by Boyst62 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Love it. What a great song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Kevi Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Boyst62 said: I so want to go somewhere with a reply on this on the actual power of twitter but know it would get ugly fast. I won't dispute the "power" of twitter. It's an information world, and it allows seeminly infinite amounts of information to be strewn across the country and globe with virtually no delay. Many good things have come from it, this is also a fact. We have a President because of it. Like FDR with radio, or JFK with TV, it's was about mastering the media's hot new delivery method. That does not mean it's good for us. Social media has decimated society. Look at some of the studies on screen time and social media's directly correlative effects on suicide rates, depression, and relationships. People are literally (in the real sense, not the modern coloquial sense) addicted to it. It was designed to provide little dopamine hits with every "like" since people are driven by peer approval. Let's also not forget that since ISIS has very very little calaphate remaining, social media enables radicalization of new ISIS members and inspiration for so many domestic attacks that were radicalized solely online. So I know you didn't want it to "get ugly", but I could go on for days about this particular topic. That doesn't mean I want to "do anything" about it. People are free to do what they like, and clearly they really like social media. I just think people should approach social media like cigarettes or alcohol- enjoy yourself- but realize it IS bad for you and you should limit it's control over your life. Maybe I got a little too ppp... Sorry mods. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, tumaro02 said: Having recently served for over 18 months on a Grand Jury and having heard dozens of cases. . . while I don't know what happened in this event, I do know that the Grand Jury would not have returned and indictment unless there was overwhelming probable cause to prosecute. I'm not referring to this case about Patricia but it is openly acknowledged that the Grand Jury System without question favors the prosecution. The benefit of the doubt goes to the prosecutor in the room guiding the process without a challenging presence in the room. I'm not arguing that this system is right or wrong but I am saying that there are biases in the system that can be exploited. No system is perfect. But one needs to be cautious about how it works and recognize the flaws associated with it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haslett_Stomp Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 15 minutes ago, Shotgunner said: I won't dispute the "power" of twitter. It's an information world, and it allows seeminly infinite amounts of information to be strewn across the country and globe with virtually no delay. Many good things have come from it, this is also a fact. We have a President because of it. Like FDR with radio, or JFK with TV, it's was about mastering the media's hot new delivery method. That does not mean it's good for us. Social media has decimated society. Look at some of the studies on screen time and social media's directly correlative effects on suicide rates, depression, and relationships. People are literally (in the real sense, not the modern coloquial sense) addicted to it. It was designed to provide little dopamine hits with every "like" since people are driven by peer approval. Let's also not forget that since ISIS has very very little calaphate remaining, social media enables radicalization of new ISIS members and inspiration for so many domestic attacks that were radicalized solely online. So I know you didn't want it to "get ugly", but I could go on for days about this particular topic. That doesn't mean I want to "do anything" about it. People are free to do what they like, and clearly they really like social media. I just think people should approach social media like cigarettes or alcohol- enjoy yourself- but realize it IS bad for you and you should limit it's control over your life. Maybe I got a little too ppp... Sorry mods. Amen, brother. I have three teenagers and deal with the effects of social media every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 What would’ve happened to Patricia if he was a draft prospect and didn’t disclose this info to teams? This is a lot more serious than a 15 year old’s twitter posts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 27 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: Love it. What a great song. I bet Teef thinks this is REM or something. @teef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Just now, BuffaloRebound said: What would’ve happened to Patricia if he was a draft prospect and didn’t disclose this info to teams? This is a lot more serious than a 15 year old’s twitter posts. You're asking this of a league who took a man who killed dogs for pleasure and money and gave him a multi-million-dollar contract after spending 18 months in prison. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said: I bet Teef thinks this is REM or something. @teef B word i know my genesis. i watched that **** on mtv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 minute ago, teef said: B word i know my genesis. i watched that **** on mtv. Was it a 32" RCA like I had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Was it a 32" RCA like I had? it didn't have the cabinet look, but it was the same idea. we had green shag carpet with wood paneling on the walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 7 hours ago, LittleJoeCartwright said: And we thought the sports writers at the Buffalo News were bad. https://sports.yahoo.com/swirl-questions-surround-lions-matt-patricia-dismissed-sex-assault-case-comes-light-062930363.html Why would this Detroit reporter dig this up and write an article about it after Patricia was already hired as head coach? Does he have an axe to grind with the Lions? Did Patricia not give him an interview? To go back and dig up this story 20 years later, how does this help anyone involved? B.c he knew people like you would give him free clicks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 minute ago, teef said: it didn't have the cabinet look, but it was the same idea. we had green shag carpet with wood paneling on the walls. I bet your parents threw the most gnarly parties. Was the fridge filled with Busch Light and the bowls were filled with Planters Cheeze balls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitzboy54 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 7 hours ago, LittleJoeCartwright said: And we thought the sports writers at the Buffalo News were bad. https://sports.yahoo.com/swirl-questions-surround-lions-matt-patricia-dismissed-sex-assault-case-comes-light-062930363.html Why would this Detroit reporter dig this up and write an article about it after Patricia was already hired as head coach? Does he have an axe to grind with the Lions? Did Patricia not give him an interview? To go back and dig up this story 20 years later, how does this help anyone involved? Because it's his job and shame on the Lions for not finding it? I mean what part of "sexual assault of a minor" is not news worthy? 4 minutes ago, SECRET SQUIRREL said: Well unfortunately it's the truth... Twitter is a full blown libtard cesspool that censors anyone that's affiliated with conservatives and Republicans, it's beyond embarrassing.... As to this story, it is absolutely disgusting that someone can do this to someone over an allegation from 20 years ago. Indicted means absolutely nothing when it comes to if someone is guilty or not. This is a pure LAMP article that is nothing but a self serving character assassination that's beyond embarrassing and irresponsible. Gross. No part of this statement is true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, blitzboy54 said: I mean what part of "sexual assault of a minor" is not news worthy? The part where there is no evidence of sexual assault, and the part where the girl in question was not a minor. But other than that...you totally nailed it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 hours ago, Mickey said: It makes sense that they would research this stuff after he was hired, it would make no sense to commit that level and resources to check the background of someone the Lions might hire. Moreover, we have no idea when they first came across whatever information they had that triggered their research. As interested as I am in the finer points of journalistic practices I am quite a bit more concerned that a grand jury in Texas found sufficient evidence that Patricia, now a head coach of an NFL franchise, sexually assaulted a woman. Blaming the paper for writing a story seems to miss the point. The information was out there and was bound to come out sooner or later. Newspapers are not in the business of covering up sexual assault charges against prominent persons. Their only obligation is to try and get the fact right. Has Patricia denied the facts of the story? On a side note, by posting the link to the story here, you have actually engaged in what legally is an act of publication yourself. I disagree. In addition to trying to get the facts right, newspapers also have to consider whether what they are publishing is newsworthy. Here, it is reasonable to question that since the story is old news that was fully reported at the time it occurred and that has not suddenly become newsworthy again. Interestingly, the EU recognizes a "right to be forgotten," which essentially holds that at some point citizens have a right not to have old indiscretions (or alleged indiscretions) republished. This enables people to move on with their lives, and EU law requires Google to take down URLs after a valid delisting request is made. I see no valid reason for this story to have been reported again now, and agree with the OP. As for the OP being a publisher, the law is well settled that publishing a hyperlink to content does not make you a republisher of that content and you cannot be held legally liable for the accuracy of the content linked to. It's treated as a suggestion to check out information published elsewhere. So, legally speaking, me providing you a link to an article published on the Sports Illustrated website is treated more or less like me telling you that there is an interesting article you should check out on the Sports Illustrated web site. I'm not treated as a publisher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) There is a reason why school and employment applications ask "have you been convicted of a crime" rather than "have you been accused of a crime". Edited May 10, 2018 by prissythecat 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Robert James said: I disagree. In addition to trying to get the facts right, newspapers also have to consider whether what they are publishing is newsworthy. Here, it is reasonable to question that since the story is old news that was fully reported at the time it occurred and that has not suddenly become newsworthy again. Interestingly, the EU recognizes a "right to be forgotten," which essentially holds that at some point citizens have a right not to have old indiscretions (or alleged indiscretions) republished. This enables people to move on with their lives, and EU law requires Google to take down URLs after a valid delisting request is made. I see no valid reason for this story to have been reported again now, and agree with the OP. As for the OP being a publisher, the law is well settled that publishing a hyperlink to content does not make you a republisher of that content and you cannot be held legally liable for the accuracy of the content linked to. It's treated as a suggestion to check out information published elsewhere. So, legally speaking, me providing you a link to an article published on the Sports Illustrated website is treated more or less like me telling you that there is an interesting article you should check out on the Sports Illustrated web site. I'm not treated as a publisher. I like the EU way of handling this "when is news old enough to purge". Thanks for that info.. question though: So just providing the link and only commenting on the link, this somehow reduces your exposure and responsibility? What if you provide the link and also quote the link. Are you now responsible? Edited May 10, 2018 by cba fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortunesmith Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Studies show between 2 to 6 percent of sexual assault allegations in the US are false. With 94% being true , it's hard not to take any allegation seriously until proven otherwise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) 52 minutes ago, cba fan said: I like the EU way of handling this "when is news old enough to purge". Thanks for that info.. question though: So just providing the link and only commenting on the link, this somehow reduces your exposure and responsibility? What if you provide the link and also quote the link. Are you now responsible? Directly quoting the link would make you responsible as a republisher of whatever portion you quoted. Once you say it, you are responsible. So, if you accused Matt Patricia of being a predator, I couldn't protect myself by saying "cba fan says that Matt Patricia is a predator." I wouldn't be shielded by the fact that I accurately reported what you said -- I'd be responsible for the accuracy of what I repeated. The adage is "tale bearers are as bad as tale makers." Suggesting someone check out a link doesn't fall into that category. If I vouch for the content of the linked material that's a different story. So, if I link to your accusation and introduce it by saying, "cba fan has finally exposed Matt Patricia, follow this link to find out the truth about the Lions' new coach," I'd be on the hook. Edited May 10, 2018 by Robert James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: I bet Teef thinks this is REM or something. @teef I don’t think teef has any electricity where he lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, Fortunesmith said: Studies show between 2 to 6 percent of sexual assault allegations in the US are false. With 94% being true , it's hard not to take any allegation seriously until proven otherwise. Studies show that 100% of stats presented as facts without back-up evidence are not trust worthy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haze_21 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 The Detroit GM and President said they were not aware of the charge when they hired him so yes it is a story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortunesmith Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Dalton said: Studies show that 100% of stats presented as facts without back-up evidence are not trust worthy. voila http://kunskapsbanken.nck.uu.se/nckkb/nck/publik/fil/visa/197/different also https://theconversation.com/heres-the-truth-about-false-accusations-of-sexual-violence-88049 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Max Fischer said: You clearly clearly have a strong opinion on women speaking out on alleged sexual assault. It’s not “taking sides” to report something that happened. Even you would have to admit that a woman reported an assault by three men and a grand jury thought there was enough evidence to warrant a trial. Those are facts. The reporter also explained what happened next, which I thought was fair to Patricia and the woman. Yes, he is innocent in the court of law. Yes, he very well may be entirely without fault and the woman made up the whole thing. But we also cannot assume we know anything else and mostly because the writer posed questions we may never know. I have no idea what happened, and I support any victim's right to seek justice within the boundaries of the law, but the bold portion of your statement is inaccurate. A grand jury indicts, which means there is sufficient evidence to substantiate the charges, as in a preponderance of evidence but that says nothing about being enough for a trial. Trial level evidence requires so much more than a "preponderance of the evidence" which is only intended to substantiate the charges so that willy-nilly and false charges can't be constructed to falsely accuse and punish innocent people. But, as I noted there is probably some truth to the story no matter what....the problem is, with any of these types of concerns there are always layers of truth and misinformation and it's in those details that often determine whether a crime was committed or whether someone made unethical or in some cases, immoral (by someone else's code, not mine) choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 5 hours ago, corta765 said: Its funny if they looked at BB's tree for guys who went on to be GM's and Presidents its farrr more successful. You have Ozzie Newsome for starters, Scott Peoli, Demtrioff etc.. Coach wise Saban may be his most successful and he is in the college ranks. But I think those who got his tutelage for non coaching positions have done well in my $.02 opinion I agree. The Andy Reid coaching tree is also more successful than Belichick's. John Harbaugh, Ron Rivera, Doug Peterson, and hopefully Sean McDermott. Matt Nagy and Pat Schurmur also have a chance to build on that resume. I'd include Todd Bowles in there, but I hope he fails miserably. That's two Superbowl winners (Harbaugh and Peterson) and one Superbowl loser (Rivera). The irony is that Reid has always fielded consistently good playoff football teams that can never quite close the deal and win a Superbowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 What's equally perplexing to me is the "Court Activity"....[NONE FOUND]....in NY at least, when a grand jury is impaneled and the charges and case presented, under court activity, it would show "Grand Jury" with the charges and the date because often the charges change. They're either escalated or reduced based on additional collection of evidence, such as witness or victim testimony and evidence received in the interim. But the fact that it said, NONE FOUND, makes even less sense to this twisted scenario. On a side note, I'm from Oneida County....don't know the man or his family but put that out there in a sort of, full disclosure notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 hours ago, LABillzFan said: If everything was reported as fact, the story would be two sentences long. But it's not. Why? Because once you get past the facts, that Patricia is legally innocent, the writer doesn't stop there. The writer MUST push the questions against a legally innocent man. Do thse sound like facts to you about Patricia's case? No. It sounds like the author has his own ideas of what he thinks should have happened, and needs everyone to follow his train of thought. Did the journalist stop when he stated Patricia was innocent? No. Of course not. Now' let's add more reason to end the story. End of story? No. Of course not. Not let's add yet another reason to end the story. End of story? No. Of course not. The author needs you to get behind his implied belief that even though Patricia was legally innocent... IF he's innocent? Really? Few people hate all things that have ever sprung from NE*, but this article is irresponsible. Trashy. Clickbait. Embarrassing. i read through the articles and subsequent posts looking for this sort of reply. You nailed it. It's a report on factual events with a Dickinsonian flair. Like many things in life, the only problems that come out of it are for the accused (if innocent) and/or the accuser (if truthful, assuming she relives what would have been horrible). No one knows what actually happened other than it all went away. And by the way, the headline could as easily read: Lions Matt Patricia Devastated By Questions Answered Long Ago. Well done sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Classic Bellicheat. Bill realized he doesnt want to coordinate the D after all up in NE so he desperately leaked this item to get him fired in Detroit so he can then hire him back in NE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 I mean he kinda looks like one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Fortunesmith said: Studies show between 2 to 6 percent of sexual assault allegations in the US are false. With 94% being true , it's hard not to take any allegation seriously until proven otherwise. Ya know, except like Constitutional rights and the whole innocent until.proven guilty thing. But the cool part I like is 99% of statistics are made up. So even if I bothered asking for a source it's probably so discreditable that it doesn't matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortunesmith Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Just now, Boyst62 said: Ya know, except like Constitutional rights and the whole innocent until.proven guilty thing. But the cool part I like is 99% of statistics are made up. So even if I bothered asking for a source it's probably so discreditable that it doesn't matter I posted sources a couple posts down, slick. The US government has to uphold the right of innocent until proven guilty - people's opinions do not have such a requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Has the women come forward again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Fortunesmith said: voila http://kunskapsbanken.nck.uu.se/nckkb/nck/publik/fil/visa/197/different also https://theconversation.com/heres-the-truth-about-false-accusations-of-sexual-violence-88049 Rebuttal with links showing your links to be crap. Would be easy to provide and so easy I won't bother. But your links are not reasonably honest as no such statistics are kept by law enforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: Ya know, except like Constitutional rights and the whole innocent until.proven guilty thing. But the cool part I like is 99% of statistics are made up. So even if I bothered asking for a source it's probably so discreditable that it doesn't matter Where did you get the statistic that 99% of statistics are made up? Did you just make that up? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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