Zay Jones and His New QB

[H2o]

Imo, Tyrod threw a pretty catchable ball. He knew when to sling it and put some touch on his passes. Was he the greatest? No. The reason I bring this up is because of ZJ and his dropped passes last year. Josh Allen rips the ball on a lot of occasions. How will that affect ZJ? I hope he gets it together and his stone hands can be remedied, but one has to wonder. 

[The Now Moment]

1 minute ago, H2o said:

Imo, Tyrod threw a pretty catchable ball. He knew when to sling it and put some touch on his passes. Was he the greatest? No. The reason I bring this up is because of ZJ and his dropped passes last year. Josh Allen rips the ball on a lot of occasions. How will that affect ZJ? I hope he gets it together and his stone hands can be remedied, but one has to wonder. 

Timing seemed to be an issue with Tyrod and ZJ.  There were certainly other issues but the two never seemed to be on the same page.  Hopefully, both put in enough work to establish a chemistry.  Just have to wait to find out.

[QB Bills]

Dropped everything in sight. Ran the wrong route in Carolina and single-handedly cost the team a win. Then, the offseason stuff..

 

Only way to go is up.

Edited May 2, 2018 by QB Bills

[What a Tuel]

Buffalo is where receivers came to die under Tyrod. Look for all of them including Clay to do better.

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, What a Tuel said:

Buffalo is where receivers came to die under Tyrod. Look for all of them including Clay to do better.

Sammy's best year as a pro was with Tyrod.

[Happy]

I thought Zay had shoulder surgery this off-season, which probably impacted his performance this past season.

[cd1]

I think if there was a problem with a receiver being in the wrong place - that might be between QB and WR.

 

But when a ball is thrown close enough for the receiver to get his hands on it - it NOW becomes between the Receiver and the BALL.

 

FWIW - If you are a WR in the NFL and you can't catch a ball, it is time to dust off your FastFood resume. YMMV

Edited May 2, 2018 by cd1

[Sky Diver]

12 minutes ago, H2o said:

Imo, Tyrod threw a pretty catchable ball. He knew when to sling it and put some touch on his passes. Was he the greatest? No. The reason I bring this up is because of ZJ and his dropped passes last year. Josh Allen rips the ball on a lot of occasions. How will that affect ZJ? I hope he gets it together and his stone hands can be remedied, but one has to wonder. 

 

How long did it take Eric Moulds to develop into a top receiver?

 

Answer: He wasn't good until his 3rd yr.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoulEr00.htm

Edited May 2, 2018 by Sky Diver

[What a Tuel]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Sammy's best year as a pro was with Tyrod.

 

He had one year without Tyrod. And 65 yards more than Watkins did with EJ Manuel / Kyle Orton at the helm. Granted it was 3 less games, but Watkins was a bit hobbled both years. Goff wasn't much better either, or at least the offensive strategy wasn't.

Edited May 2, 2018 by What a Tuel

[Tsaikotic]

I remember when it used to take 2 - 3 years for a WR to adjust to the NFL..now they have to be good day 1....didnt Jones have a wrist problem all season also??..

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, What a Tuel said:

He had one year without Tyrod. And 65 yards more than Watkins did with EJ Manuel at the helm. Granted it was 3 less games, but Watkins was a bit hobbled both years. Goff wasn't much better either, or at least the offensive strategy wasn't.

Sounds like excuses. Let's just hope Zay has improved in his knowledge of routes and he's on the same page as Allen. His catches in traffic, or lack thereof, were the other concerning thing from last year, but maybe with the added velocity from Allen the ball will get there sooner and it will be less contested.

[What a Tuel]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Sounds like excuses. Let's just hope Zay has improved in his knowledge of routes and he's on the same page as Allen. His catches in traffic, or lack thereof, were the other concerning thing from last year, but maybe with the added velocity from Allen the ball will get there sooner and it will be less contested.

 

Name one credible WR that had a better year here with Tyrod than with his prior team?

[VADC Bills]

4 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

How long did it take Eric Moulds to develop into a top receiver?

 

Answer: He wasn't good until his 3rd yr.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoulEr00.htm

Always thought Zay was forced to start before he was ready. Most receivers take 2-3 years to hit the mark.

I think he got better as the year went on.

Moulds became great his third year and to this day along with Andre Reed is my favorite Bills receiver.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, What a Tuel said:

Name one credible WR that had a better year here with Tyrod than with his prior team?

Deonte Thompson.

 

Name one WR that came here from a prior team and played more than 10 games.

[hemma]

If 'catchable ball' includes out of bounds, yup, he threw a lot of catchable balls. 

Cameramen often felt like they were game day active receivers.

[billsbackto81]

17 minutes ago, H2o said:

Imo, Tyrod threw a pretty catchable ball. He knew when to sling it and put some touch on his passes. Was he the greatest? No. The reason I bring this up is because of ZJ and his dropped passes last year. Josh Allen rips the ball on a lot of occasions. How will that affect ZJ? I hope he gets it together and his stone hands can be remedied, but one has to wonder. 

As mentioned Zay had shoulder surgery to repair what he says was a performance hindering obstacle. Allen I think would be the perfect type QB for Zay. He throws a zippy tight spiral which helps a WR who is a considered a "hands" type receiver. Also since the ball is coming in hot it won't give him any time to think " man I hope I don't mess this up".

 

Just a thought.

[What a Tuel]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Deonte Thompson.

 

Name one WR that came here from a prior team and played more than 10 games.

 

That's a random qualifier. Thompson barely did better and in Chicago he had Mike Glennon throwing to him. Which is the point. These WRs will do better with better QBs throwing to them. That isn't really arguable.

 

How many Bills WR's have left the team to do better with other QBs? Woods? Goodwin? Hogan? 

Edited May 2, 2018 by What a Tuel

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, What a Tuel said:

That's a random qualifier. Thompson barely did better and in Chicago he had Mike Glennon throwing to him. Which is the point.

 

How many Bills WR's have left the team to do better with other QBs? Woods? Goodwin? Hogan? 

It's not random, how do you expect them to do better if they don't even play 65% of the season?

[SouthNYfan]

Guys.

Allen just has to give him the "feathertstone" treatment.

 

I mean we basically just drafted a young Paul Blake off the farm ?

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

Well, I think the problem with Zay was due to Russ Brandon. Now that hes gone I see Zay improving.

 

Had to blame Russ one last time.

 

[What a Tuel]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

It's not random, how do you expect them to do better if they don't even play 65% of the season?

 

Jordan Matthews played 10 games and had 200 yards. In Philly he played 14 for 800 yards. You say this comparison does not count because Matthews didn't play an arbitrary "more than 10 games" when the reality is he wasn't going to get back up to 800 yards.

 

Edit: I also realize this was a different offense that doesn't pass as much but it was an offense built around negating Tyrods weaknesses. And that's all I am saying. With a better QB, our WRs will do better. Let's hope Allen is better!

Edited May 2, 2018 by What a Tuel

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, What a Tuel said:

Jordan Matthews played 10 games and had 200 yards. In Philly he played 14 for 800 yards. You say this comparison does not count because Matthews didn't play an arbitrary "more than 10 games" when the reality is he wasn't going to get back up to 800 yards.

No, I'm saying we never brought in a credible receiver in the first place. Only shipped them out.

[Epstein's Mother]

26 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Sammy's best year as a pro was with Tyrod.

 

Hey, so was Zay's!

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, Epstein's Mother said:

 

Hey, so was Zay's!

Not for long (I hope)

[skibum]

What's a ZJ?

[Gugny]

I think Zay Jones just had a horrible rookie season.  It happens.  I am confident that he'll bounce back and catch passes like he did in college.

[blacklabel]

40 minutes ago, cd1 said:

I think if there was a problem with a receiver being in the wrong place - that might be between QB and WR.

 

But when a ball is thrown close enough for the receiver to get his hands on it - it NOW becomes between the Receiver and the BALL.

 

FWIW - If you are a WR in the NFL and you can't catch a ball, it is time to dust off your FastFood resume. YMMV

 

"Aw geez, I'm not excelling in my chosen field. I suppose the only thing I'm good for is flippin' burgers."

[T master]

39 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I thought Zay had shoulder surgery this off-season, which probably impacted his performance this past season.

 

I'm hoping that was a big reason for his bad rookie yr coming out of college they said he was one of the better WR's so i hope he makes a huge jump from last yr & i think AJ will be a big help in that regard !! 

[elltrain22]

Rookie WR's don't come into the NFL and dominate. Matter of fact, they usually struggle. Once in a while you get elite level talents that can step in and do a real good job, but this, IMO, is not  the norm. 

 

I don't care what anyone says, no one could ever convince me that Zay isn't going to be a good NFL wr. Last year was last year, and if I remember correctly, he really started to show alot of improvement in the 2nd half of the season. I think it is very conceivable that Zay could catch around 40-50 passes, for about 500-700 yards. I look forward to watching him play this year, especially with a QB that doesn't drop his eyes after 1.5 seconds on  most passing plays. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, elltrain22 said:

Rookie WR's don't come into the NFL and dominate. Matter of fact, they usually struggle. Once in a while you get elite level talents that can step in and do a real good job, but this, IMO, is not  the norm. 

 

I don't care what anyone says, no one could ever convince me that Zay isn't going to be a good NFL wr. Last year was last year, and if I remember correctly, he really started to show alot of improvement in the 2nd half of the season. I think it is very conceivable that Zay could catch around 40-50 passes, for about 500-700 yards. I look forward to watching him play this year, especially with a QB that doesn't drop his eyes after 1.5 seconds on  most passing plays. 

He started doing well when he moved into the slot instead of playing out wide. I really hope they don't try to put him back out wide unless he's made significant strides.

[grb]

3 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

That's a random qualifier. Thompson barely did better and in Chicago he had Mike Glennon throwing to him. Which is the point. These WRs will do better with better QBs throwing to them. That isn't really arguable.

 

How many Bills WR's have left the team to do better with other QBs? Woods? Goodwin? Hogan? 

 

The only time Taylor ever had a Number One & Two receiver on the field that wasn't a cripple, cast-off, or painfully-overwhelmed rookie was the 15 games from 2015-2016 when Woods and Watkins were both healthy. In two years that's the amount of games both were on the field with Taylor : Fifteen.

 

When they were, Taylor's numbers : 63.6% comp. 8.25 ypa. 27 tds. 6 ints.

 

Obviously, it was a heavily run-first offense, so the bulk numbers weren't there. But the ypa is top-of-the-league grade, the tds would have tied for tenth (with Kirk Cousins) using last season as a benchmark, and the interception number was exceptional. The problem with Taylor was he had less&less to work with each successive season with the Bills. By last year, with Matthews hobbled, Benjamin hobbled, Jones a deer in the headlights, Clay out a hunk of the season and often unable to practice, and everyone else other-team-rejects, it was particularly obvious. The damage to the running game by scheme change didn't help, and pass protection was spotty at best. What'll happen in Cleveland? We'll see........

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by grb

[4BillsintheBurgh]

37 minutes ago, hemma said:

If 'catchable ball' includes out of bounds, yup, he threw a lot of catchable balls. 

Cameramen often felt like they were game day active receivers.

They will need helmets in 2018 if Allen gets on the field. I'd think the folks in the front row at field level might need to pay attention too.

[H2o]

Look, I'm not saying I expected Zay to be Jerry Rice year 1. I'm just saying that a lot of passes he got his hands on last year ended up hitting the ground. I don't know the stats, but it was probably near the bottom of the league in catch rate. Some of it was on Taylor, but a lot was on him. He did seem to progress a bit towards the end of the year. I'm just saying that Allen puts some heat on the ball and I hope Zay is ready. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Tsaikotic said:

I remember when it used to take 2 - 3 years for a WR to adjust to the NFL..now they have to be good day 1....didnt Jones have a wrist problem all season also??..

 

I didn't expect him to be great. But he had a historically bad season by a lot of metrics. Not just below average, historically bad. Maybe he'll bounce back but I wouldn't count on it.

[Bills757]

20 minutes ago, grb said:

 

The only time Taylor ever had a Number One & Two receiver on the field that wasn't a cripple, cast-off, or painfully-overwhelmed rookie was the 15 games from 2015-2016 when Woods and Watkins were both healthy. In two years that's the amount of games both were on the field with Taylor : Fifteen.

 

When they were, Taylor's numbers : 63.6% comp. 8.25 ypa. 27 tds. 6 ints.

 

Obviously, it was a heavily run-first offense, so the bulk numbers weren't their. But the ypa is top-of-the-league grade, the tds would have tied for tenth (with Kirk Cousins) using last season as a benchmark, and the interception number was exceptional. The problem with Taylor was he had less&less to work with each successive season with the Bills. By last year, with Matthews hobbled, Benjamin hobbled, Jones a deer in the headlights, Clay out a hunk of the season and often unable to practice, and everyone else other-team-rejects, it was particularly obvious. The damage to the running game by scheme change didn't help, and pass protection was spotty at best. What'll happen in Cleveland? We'll see........

 

You realize objectivity and facts don't belong on this board, right? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I thought Zay had shoulder surgery this off-season, which probably impacted his performance this past season.

 

I'm hoping the shoulder injury was a factor.

 

Plus, I think for all athletes, confidence is a factor which is why there are streaks.  When a guy struggles early-on, especially a young guy, it seems it can get in his head and carry on to the next play.

[Epstein's Mother]

44 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Not for long (I hope)

 Me too!

[Juice_32]

39 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I think Zay Jones just had a horrible rookie season.  It happens.  I am confident that he'll bounce back and catch passes like he did in college.

 

Agree. I'm an ECU season ticket holder. The kid caught everything in college and did not look at all awkward like he appeared to his rookie year. If he can get that form back we will all forget about his rookie year (and hopefully his TMZ moment).

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, H2o said:

Look, I'm not saying I expected Zay to be Jerry Rice year 1. I'm just saying that a lot of passes he got his hands on last year ended up hitting the ground. I don't know the stats, but it was probably near the bottom of the league in catch rate. Some of it was on Taylor, but a lot was on him. He did seem to progress a bit towards the end of the year. I'm just saying that Allen puts some heat on the ball and I hope Zay is ready. 

 

He was certainly near the bottom in catch rate, but I believe that's just "passes he caught/passes where he was IDd as the target"  - no adjustment for whether or not the ball was within his catch radius.  He was definitely struggling though.  Even Mama Jones (his mom) burned him for that.

 

[Kelly the Dog]

Zay had real problems tracking the ball in the air on passes downfield. Just godawful. Those had nothing to do with injuries. Hopefully he will improve. The yips I expect will improve. 

 

Also the main reason Moulds had poor stats early was that Marv hated playing rookies. We had decent veterans ahead of him but Marv screwed him over to some degree. It was at least as much that he wasn't afforded the chance as it was he took some time. He was better than guys in front of him but had to wait his turn.