WOW is our OL ever in shambles

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Turk71 said:

Didn't realize house ownership and cable were correlated. I own a house and have Directtv w Sunday ticket, am I doing it wrong? 

 

 

Just busting on KGB's weak (non)response about TT.

[Bing Bong]

our offense looks horrid on paper. We look like the Texans expansion team.

[NickelCity]

5 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

I'll call it a wash then instead of an upgrade, because he isn't worse.

 

Wholeheartedly disagree. And I don't think Wood was particularly good.

[Thurman#1]

On 4/11/2018 at 8:11 AM, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

We need four  good linemen. Dawkins and four below average at best right now Shambles is a good word for it

 

 

 

Disagree. Groy might turn out to be better than that. He was quite decent at center when he played. And after the first few weeks, Ducasse was pretty solid.

 

Shambles is an overstatement.

[Thurman#1]

13 hours ago, teef said:

so...did he state medical issues just because he was being zany?  he is a bit of a head case, which is why i think his tweets were bizarre.  i've mentioned this before, but i have a brother in law that was a pro athlete.  he ended a season thinking he was going into next year, and about 2/3 of the way into the off season, he and his physicians, (along with the team) decided it was best that he not play anymore for his long term health. these things happen.  i think you're trying to hard here.

 

 

Fair enough. But did your brother in law fire his agent by twitter?

 

IMO you're both right. Being concerned about your health is the most reasonable thing in the world, and yet we also hear that if the money is good enough he'd play another year. I think he's going through some kind of weirdness lately, but I have no problem with wanting to retire for his health. I hope he's OK.

[maryland-bills-fan]

9 hours ago, Bakin said:

Darby was a first?

Opps   second round

 

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Direct TV??  Move out of your double wide, bud....

  Some people can't afford a conventional house.  Is that a problem for you?

[HOUSE]

Signed  Cincinnati starting center Signed C( Russell Bodine ) who just so happens to be the center for AJ McCarron in practice the last 3 years

 

Ryan Groy goes to LG, who also never gave up a sack at center in Buffalo.

 

Maybe you guys BELIEVE Incognito is retiring, I am not buying that........sounds like a power move for more money to me

 

What problem are we talking about again?

Edited April 12, 2018 by HOUSE

[greeneblitz]

I can't believe after so many years, some Bills fans are actually argueing against finally trading up to get our franchise QB, best QB draft in 15 years, its insanity.

[HOUSE]

2 minutes ago, greeneblitz said:

I can't believe after so many years, some Bills fans are actually arguing against finally trading up to get our franchise QB, best QB draft in 15 years, its insanity.

 

Me neither

[3rdand12]

8 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

They did try to address it last year, they had Glenn at LT and drafted Dawkins to play RT. Mills was not intended to be the starter going into last season. So I don't get where this perception that the current administration lacks care for the O-line comes from. Going into last season they had a line of Glenn (A dam fine LT when healthy) - InCog (A good LG coming off of 2 probowls) - Wood (An above average starting center) - Miller (A young guard coming off of some pretty decent seasons) - Dawkins (A 2nd round pick they traded up to get)

 

Glenn got hurt and Miller regressed beyond reasonable expectation, that is what caused the O-line to regress. The construction of last years O-line to start the season was not bad at all. 

Bringing in Ducasse and expecting Mills to improve ?

 Glenn was already an Issue with health.Miller was not going to start over Ducasse and John Miller regressed ? not sure about that.

 I just do not agree.

 I can see them "hoping" Glenn could play LT and maybe move to Dawkins to RT. But that never really had any good footing though OTA or preseason LOL

[Doc Brown]

23 minutes ago, greeneblitz said:

I can't believe after so many years, some Bills fans are actually argueing against finally trading up to get our franchise QB, best QB draft in 15 years, its insanity.

I just don't want a DavidCarr situation.  If we do move up and draft a QB you better make sure that our o-line is adequate in pass protection.  I think we should sit whoever we pick at least a year until we can add some pieces to the o-line and WR core.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Doc Brown

[cd1]

On 4/10/2018 at 7:36 PM, Mr. WEO said:

How great was this O-line last year?

 

Last year we had a QB who could and DID run for his life!

 

This year - we might just be screwed. Especially IF we finally get our franchise QB and end up getting him broken right out of the gate.

 

It sucks to have these unforeseen holes in our offensive line just when they were ready to trade the farm for a QB.

 

This sure sucks for the PROCESS. 

[Mr. WEO]

59 minutes ago, cd1 said:

 

Last year we had a QB who could and DID run for his life!

 

This year - we might just be screwed. Especially IF we finally get our franchise QB and end up getting him broken right out of the gate.

 

It sucks to have these unforeseen holes in our offensive line just when they were ready to trade the farm for a QB.

 

This sure sucks for the PROCESS. 

 

No one was freaking out over the wise trade of Glenn, even after Wood retired.  Now Incognito loses his mind and retires and it's a sudden disaster?

 

I'm not buying it.  The guys still left played a lot of snaps last season.  I don't see a huge drop off from mediocre.

[ALF]

The 2019 list of FA  offensive linemen

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2019/offensive-line/

 

2018 still available

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/offensive-line/

Edited April 12, 2018 by ALF

[cd1]

51 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

No one was freaking out over the wise trade of Glenn, even after Wood retired.  Now Incognito loses his mind and retires and it's a sudden disaster?

 

I'm not buying it.  The guys still left played a lot of snaps last season.  I don't see a huge drop off from mediocre.

 

You missed the point!

 

Even if the line is exactly the same, we no longer have a QB that can escape the mayhem caused by turnstile OL scheme.  

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, cd1 said:

 

You missed the point!

 

Even if the line is exactly the same, we no longer have a QB that can escape the mayhem caused by turnstile OL scheme.  

 

I posted that several pages ago.  Scroll back.

[teef]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Fair enough. But did your brother in law fire his agent by twitter?

 

IMO you're both right. Being concerned about your health is the most reasonable thing in the world, and yet we also hear that if the money is good enough he'd play another year. I think he's going through some kind of weirdness lately, but I have no problem with wanting to retire for his health. I hope he's OK.

agreed.  i'd be willing to be it's a combination of factors rather than just one.  

[Dr. Who]

4 hours ago, greeneblitz said:

I can't believe after so many years, some Bills fans are actually argueing against finally trading up to get our franchise QB, best QB draft in 15 years, its insanity.

It's some kind of weird, mutant Stockholm Syndrome where fans become defenders of the habitual bad strategy of plugging holes and deferring on qb.

[cd1]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I posted that several pages ago.  Scroll back.

 

Then, what are you arguing about?

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Disagree. Groy might turn out to be better than that. He was quite decent at center when he played. And after the first few weeks, Ducasse was pretty solid.

 

Shambles is an overstatement.

I hope you're right

[ColoradoBills]

NFL Network replayed the Bengals/Raven New Years Eve game yesterday and I recorded it.

I watched every Bengal offensive play to see what Bodine looks like.  I jotted down some observations and

was going to post what I saw when I thought that I would look to see what Bodine's draft profile looked like.

 

When I read his "draft profile" I thru away my notes because what I read said it better than anything I could have ever said.

Both the strengths and weaknesses say everything I saw.  Bodine isn't a "tire fire" and I see why the Bengals had him

start for all that time.  At the same time I see why they got rid of him.

 

Overview

Last name is pronounced "BO-dine." Prepped at Fork Union (Va.) Military Academy, where his father is a teacher. Redshirted in 2010. Was a backup in '11 -- played nine games, including two starts as an injury replacement. Started all 25 games 2012-13.

Analysis

Strengths

Carries a load in his punch and plays with vinegar. Can seal and turn defenders in the run game to create small creases. Plays with a mean streak and likes to finish blocks. Is aggressive working up to the second level and efficient cutting linebackers. Rugged competitor. Stout anchor in pass protection. Versatile and has seen action at center and guard. Excellent weight-room strength -- bench-pressed 225 pounds 42 times to lead all participants at the combine.

 

One thing I noticed is this was not true.  3 times the play was still going and he stopped blocking and dropped his hands.

Weaknesses

Stiff-bodied. Plays short-armed and overextends. Average agility. Is late to switch off blocks. Relies too much on his upper-body strength. Mechanics deteriorate the farther he is asked to travel. Slow to adjust to counter moves. Produced the slowest 3-cone time (8.29 seconds) of any offensive lineman at the combine.

 

He is pretty slow.

Draft Projection

Rounds 3-4

Bottom Line

A top-heavy, barrel-chested, thick-bodied, short-area blocker, Bodine plays with a gritty football demeanor. Swing-interior versatility adds to his value.

-Nolan Nawrocki

 

 

My final observation was he is OK both in the run and passing game right at the Center position.  Once he moves more than a couple steps from there

he is pretty bad.  If this is typical of his game, he is not better than Wood and I can only hope he is a 1 year "filler" until we get someone better.

FWIW.

 

 

 

[GreggTX]

It looks like this will be a OL and LB draft.

[Starr Almighty]

I think we can run screen plays all game long since the D-line will be walking right by the o-line. The screen will be unstoppable

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, cd1 said:

 

Then, what are you arguing about?

 

 

I'll try one more time:

 

I think that the O-line last year was mediocre at best.

 

I think TT saved himself a bunch more sacks because of his mobility.

 

Since I don't think the O-line was very good before Glenn, Wood and RI were gone, I don't think there will be a huge dropoff this season in O-line play.

 

 

[kota]

They will be fine.  

 

 

[RFL]

On 4/11/2018 at 2:13 PM, nucci said:

why not?

I like to take a man at his word.....

[Mango]

On 4/10/2018 at 10:58 PM, billsredneck1 said:

i have been p'o'd about the lack of attention that has been paid to the rt spot for years now. i really thought seantrel would find a home and do good there, but the fo has ignored this spot year after year. if they have mills starting again this year it would seem to be the biggest example of ignorance/incompetence beyond doug whaley and our qb will get killed.  no way newhouse can't, at the very least be an improvement.

i don't know what the love for juan is.....well at least the tolbert cord was cut.....

 

In theory, Dawkins was supposed to brought in as RT, but played well at LT when Cordy went down. Instead of creating depth, or moving Dawkins back to RT this season, we let Cordy go via trade. 

 

I’ve been beating the drum this past year that McBean and Co. are really rolling the dice with their personnel decisions. I will forget all of it if we come out of this draft with a franchise QB because it’s the most important position in sports. 

 

If we trade and cut half the roster, and get blocked out of the top of the draft/don’t solve the QB position, I think that Beane at the very least, put himself in the hot seat. 

 

I really dislike the Darby trade. Iffy on the Glenn trade if that pick doesn’t garner us the QB of the future. 

[Dr. Fong]

The Bills have the worst offensive line in football as it stands today. Will they still have the worst when the season starts? I hope not. But even if they add bodies losing 3/5 starters is pretty devastating to continuity and cohesion.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Dr. Fong

[nucci]

1 hour ago, RFL said:

I like to take a man at his word.....

That's fine but if his kidneys and liver are shutting down as he said.....wouldn't he be hospitalized?

Edited April 12, 2018 by nucci

[RFL]

3 hours ago, nucci said:

That's fine but if his kidneys and liver are shutting down as he said.....wouldn't he be hospitalized?

You would think so yes,  or maybe its an early diagnosis.....Im not a DR.  But, if I had a few million in the bank,  was a younger guy like Ritchie and heard that from a doc.....Id pack it up too.

[Bakin]

13 hours ago, ALF said:

The 2019 list of FA  offensive linemen

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2019/offensive-line/

 

2018 still available

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/offensive-line/

What a sorry list that is. 

I guess Joeckel and Robinson are high potential guys but what mediocre careers so far

[billsfan89]

15 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

Bringing in Ducasse and expecting Mills to improve ?

 Glenn was already an Issue with health.Miller was not going to start over Ducasse and John Miller regressed ? not sure about that.

 I just do not agree.

 I can see them "hoping" Glenn could play LT and maybe move to Dawkins to RT. But that never really had any good footing though OTA or preseason LOL

 

Once again you are playing this out in hindsight and not taking into the context of the time. Miller coming off of 2 pretty decent seasons and was the starter at RG. He clearly wasn't a fit for the scheme so his playing time slowly got eroded away once he looked out of place in training camp and pre-season. But going into the 2017 season there was no reason to think that RG was a massive hole. 

 

Cordy Glenn missed 5 games in 2016, injury was a concern but he had started all 16 games in 2014 and 2015 and 11 out of 16 in 2016. It was not irresponsible of the team to think Glenn would likely play effectively. They drafted Dawkins to play RT and they spent a 2nd round pick in doing so. 

 

I think that you are thinking that because things didn't pan out that with injuries and scheme fits that the GM and coach don't care about the O-line. When in reality they had a good unit going into last season with only one major hole and they spent a 2nd round pick trying to fix that hole (not to mention that they kept Groy as good depth and resigned Mills on the cheap both players helped with depth.)

 

Even this off-season they signed Newhouse and Bodine two nice depth players. The O-line needs a lot of help but I don't see what makes you think that the regime isn't going to spend at least 1 premium pick to help out the unit unless a massive trade up for a QB occurs (Even then I think a good pick will still be spent on LG or RT.)

Edited April 13, 2018 by billsfan89

[3rdand12]

19 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Once again you are playing this out in hindsight and not taking into the context of the time. Miller coming off of 2 pretty decent seasons and was the starter at RG. He clearly wasn't a fit for the scheme so his playing time slowly got eroded away once he looked out of place in training camp and pre-season. But going into the 2017 season there was no reason to think that RG was a massive hole. 

 

Cordy Glenn missed 5 games in 2016, injury was a concern but he had started all 16 games in 2014 and 2015 and 11 out of 16 in 2016. It was not irresponsible of the team to think Glenn would likely play effectively. They drafted Dawkins to play RT and they spent a 2nd round pick in doing so. 

 

I think that you are thinking that because things didn't pan out that with injuries and scheme fits that the GM and coach don't care about the O-line. When in reality they had a good unit going into last season with only one major hole and they spent a 2nd round pick trying to fix that hole (not to mention that they kept Groy as good depth and resigned Mills on the cheap both players helped with depth.)

 

Even this off-season they signed Newhouse and Bodine two nice depth players. The O-line needs a lot of help but I don't see what makes you think that the regime isn't going to spend at least 1 premium pick to help out the unit unless a massive trade up for a QB occurs (Even then I think a good pick will still be spent on LG or RT.)

Perhaps I am still traumatized by Marrone ?

 

 Thanks you for the thoughtful post.

 

Glenn was getting rest days due to lingering injury and Dawkins was quickly repping at LT while most of us wished he was going to upgrade Mills. Mills would fine at depth as would Vlad . But Contract suggested they likely would start.

 

 I will try harder to think positive of McBeans and Castillo. 

      I do like Daboll !!
 

 Have only hindsight at this point of course. But i have been here for the ride and paying attention to that darned O line.

 

Really, Richie was sweet and Wood was medium grade.But both older players. Cyrus and Hendy were not going to work out.

 Miller i had expected to start

 Groy was our actual depth for G and C. an surprised he did not ove Ducasse

 

 I do sincerely appreciate your effort to help me come around. But I remain,a grumpy Old Man

 

 shall we discuss WRs ?  

[nedboy7]

The fans don’t want an o-line. They want the frencheyes.  You see all frencheyes QBs win the Super Bowl every year. 

Edited April 13, 2018 by nedboy7

[baskingridgebillsfan]

Groy for Richie     bodine for Wood .   everything else will be the same , right tackle might be upgraded by Newsome or McDermott 

Depending on how many draft picks they end up with they could add interior lineman.   I am thinking the line could be serviceable and not a disaster .

 

[MakeBuffaloGreatAgain]

I will have to agree with the OP. We may have the worst OL in all of football next year. I hope to God that AJ's Tattoos add +8 to damage absorption to his character stats. He is going to need it.

[billsfan89]

58 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Perhaps I am still traumatized by Marrone ?

 

 Thanks you for the thoughtful post.

 

Glenn was getting rest days due to lingering injury and Dawkins was quickly repping at LT while most of us wished he was going to upgrade Mills. Mills would fine at depth as would Vlad . But Contract suggested they likely would start.

 

 I will try harder to think positive of McBeans and Castillo. 

      I do like Daboll !!
 

 Have only hindsight at this point of course. But i have been here for the ride and paying attention to that darned O line.

 

Really, Richie was sweet and Wood was medium grade.But both older players. Cyrus and Hendy were not going to work out.

 Miller i had expected to start

 Groy was our actual depth for G and C. an surprised he did not ove Ducasse

 

 I do sincerely appreciate your effort to help me come around. But I remain,a grumpy Old Man

 

 shall we discuss WRs ?  

 

I think it's easy to forget about context. Glenn's injury was more serious than it was projected to be as camp went underway. But going into the draft they expected Glenn to be the LT and spent that 2nd round pick to fill the hole at RT, they went into the season with an O-line that you could say was a good unit, things fell apart but they had 4 starting caliber players (Glenn-InCog-Wood-Miller) and drafted a tackle in round 2 to fill the hole at RT. They also signed Ducasse, resigned Groy and resigned Mills for depth. Even this offseason they signed Bodine and Newhouse as depth despite limited cap space. 

 

The WR situation is dire, even before Zay Jones had his off the field. Kelvin Benjamin is a low end WR1 or a high end WR2. Zay might be a solid slot receiver but I wouldn't count on him much. Holmes doesn't impress me much, at best he is a mid level WR4 or a high end WR5. I can't think of any pro-caliber WR's on the roster. If you want to tell me that the administration doesn't put resources into WR then I am onboard but I think they have been pretty solid as far as the O-line. 

Edited April 13, 2018 by billsfan89

[Jamie Muellers Ghost]

Dawkins

Groy

Bodine

DuCasse

Mills

 

Miller

McDermott

Newhouse

Draft Swing G/C

 

[MakeBuffaloGreatAgain]

1 hour ago, Jamie Muellers Ghost said:

Dawkins

Groy

Bodine

DuCasse

Mills

 

Miller

McDermott

Newhouse

Draft Swing G/C

 

Will this be the year Buffalo surpasses Seattle in the most suicides in 1 year?

[Jamie Muellers Ghost]

11 minutes ago, MakeBuffaloGreatAgain said:

Will this be the year Buffalo surpasses Seattle in the most suicides in 1 year?

 

Yes we're all going to fall on are samurai swords. Jesus H  come on.  the legend of Eric Wood is average at best, Richie was a top-notch run blocker but very average pass-blocker with many important penalties. Ducasse came on at the end of the season last year finally. Dawkins surpassed expectations.  I'm sure the Pats would like McDermott back right now for a tackle. If Mills doesn't look good then Newhouse gets a shot, If Bodine struggles you put Groy or a rookie in.