Dear Allen Supporters...

[thebandit27]

39 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Allen averaged a putrid 4.4 ypa vs power 5 teams.  He has NO consistent 

Anticipation 

Accuracy 

Awareness 

Timing

 

Most importantly these problems stem from the internal clock in his head that's borderline unteachable on any level. The mental part of the gm is the most important factor in playing QB at a high level. He just doesn't have it.  He's a project QB at best and because of his arm strength should go starting in the 3rd rd. But obviously there's coaches and GMs that think they can fix em and they will reach high and take him early in the 1st. Whomever that team is there front office will not last long Allen will cost them there jobs.

 

Have you watched him extensively?  A lot of what you're saying isn't true.

[Mark80]

7 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

Allen is going to be a great QB, I think Rudolph will be an above average starter too. Both players get criticized wrongfully IMO. People will defend players like Lamar Jackson with his whopping 13 points, to bad there isn't an affirmative action for wonderlic tests. Meanwhile Allen and Rudolph triple Jackson's score yet people still defend the guy when intellectually he can't compete with 99% of the QBs in this class but yeah, keep criticizing Allen and Rudolph.

 

If you are going to blast someone's intelligence, perhaps know the difference between two, to, and too.  You're also missing a period or semicolon in the last sentence.  Just sayin'.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Mark80

[stuvian]

I think Allen is benefitting from the Carson Wentz effect

[NastyNateSoldiers]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Have you watched him extensively?  A lot of what you're saying isn't true.

Its definitely true i watched enough.  Allen plays like he's in some school yard playing with his buddies.

 

He's always leaving the pocket way to early and u can tell the play is not called for a roll-out. 

 

He has no anticipation whatsoever waiting for Wrs to come open before passing the ball way to often.

 

And the accuracy well u don't have to spend more then 5mins watching film to see that he's not accurate .

 

Allen is the white Cardele Jones but without the accolades. 

Edited March 30, 2018 by NastyNateSoldiers

[purple haze]

5 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

Jackson completed how many of his passes? I honestly have a hard time thinking that any QB in the draft scored lower on the wonderlic than Jackson. It shows that he will never be a pocket QB that will dissect you with his arm, first sign of trouble he is going to make a run for it.

 

Oh yeah, don't even get me started on how he picked his mom to be his agent, that is beyond stupid. He is 22 years old and has his mommy do everything for him still. The fact that he doesn't have an NFL agent shows a complete lack of judgement for an athlete playing the most intellectually demanding positions in sports. Teams can't even schedule a dinner with him.

 

The fact that you have him above Allen is downright hysterical. At this point I don't even want to draft Jackson period, not even in the 2nd-3rd round.

Your posts show me three things: Your comprehension is off.  You are tied to the Wonderlic as an indicator when it's not.  You don't watch Jackson play.

 

1.  He is not a run first QB.  He does not run at the first "sign of trouble" as you seem to need to believe.  He stays in the pocket and tries to make the throws.  Although he can and will run.

 

2.  He has already stated he represents himself.  Not his mother.  He also stated why he is representing himself.  What teams can't get hold of him?  All teams who just saw him at his Pro Day?  

 

I wonder if there are a few teams that continue to want him to work out as a WR.  Maybe he doesn't call them back?  Maybe agents don't like a precedent being set for rookies to think about repping themselves and whisper to the media about "issues"?With money slotted by draft position it's not out of the realm of logic to represent one's self.  Come draft time Jackson will probably be drafted mid to late first round same as he would have if he had an agent.  Although he should just go on and run and do the other testing drills.

 

3.  I never said I had Jackson above Allen.  You said that.  I said Jackson is more accomplished against a higher level of competition.  That's not even a question.  Allen's accuracy percentage is challenged in the same way Jackson's is, but against a consistently lower level of competition.  That's another fact.  It is also a fact Jackson's WR's had a high drop rate; higher than Allen's WR's by good percentage.

 

Allen's qualifications are his physical make up, an otherworldly strong throwing arm and vast potential if he puts everything together.  Those qualifications will put him high in the first round, but compared to Jackson's real accomplishments at the collegiate level, Allen is the affirmative action draftee.  And I still wouldn't mind seeing him in a Bills uniform at all because he does have qualifications for the gig and they are enticing.

 

What is hysterical is  you talk about Jackson's completion percentage but ignore Allen's being lower.  

 

What is hysterical is you talk Wonderlic scores being an indicator of future success and ignore the fact that one of the greatest QBs in NFL history and the greatest QB in Bills franchise history scored 15 on the test.  

 

Please give your keyboard a rest.

 

 

[thebandit27]

7 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Its definitely true i watched enough.  Allen plays like he's in some school yard playing with his buddies.

 

He's always leaving the pocket way to early and u can tell the play is not called for a roll-out. 

 

He has no anticipation whatsoever waiting for Wrs to come open before passing the ball way to often.

 

And the accuracy well u don't have to spend more then 5mins watching film to see that he's not accurate .

 

Allen is the white Cardele Jones but without the accolades. 

 

You might want to watch a bit more; I've done extensive breakdowns on the kid on this very board, and a lot of this just isn't supported by his tape IMO

[NastyNateSoldiers]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

You might want to watch a bit more; I've done extensive breakdowns on the kid on this very board, and a lot of this just isn't supported by his tape IMO

I haven't watched all his gms but I'm not impressed with what I've seen.  He doesn't deserve to be a 1st rd pk in my opinion.  I pray everyday we don't trade up for this guy it would be monumental mistake. 

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

You might want to watch a bit more; I've done extensive breakdowns on the kid on this very board, and a lot of this just isn't supported by his tape IMO

 

Just curious, what were your evaluations like for similar QBs - Manuel, Lynch, Hackenburg, etc. Has Allen separated himself from these prospects for any particular reason or do you just tend to like that style of QB?

[thebandit27]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Just curious, what were your evaluations like for similar QBs - Manuel, Lynch, Hackenburg, etc. Has Allen separated himself from these prospects for any particular reason or do you just tend to like that style of QB?

 

I had EJ as my QB1 that year and a borderline 1st round pick (mostly based on positional value).  In another year, he probably would've been a day 2 guy for me.

 

Hack got a Day 2 grade from me, and I had Lynch as a 3rd round guy--just not my cup of tea.

 

For me, Allen is a better player than those guys.  Set aside the obvious arm talent; Allen is a better athlete than those guys, and IMO he is a far better downfield passer than any of those dudes.  He also doesn't have the inability to pull the trigger the way those guys did. I also like that he hangs in there and delivers strikes despite being getting killed on a regular basis, and that he manages to hit big plays despite inferior WR talent.

 

In general, if you visit my QB thread you'll see my take on Allen, but to answer your question: no, I don't have a specific QB style. 

[Figster]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Just curious, what were your evaluations like for similar QBs - Manuel, Lynch, Hackenburg, etc. Has Allen separated himself from these prospects for any particular reason or do you just tend to like that style of QB?

Josh Allen from a wonderlic standpoint is the smartest QB in the draft class with by far the strongest arm and an ability to hit small windows of opportunity because of it.

 

Is Allen a project, absolutely and why we have McCarron.

 

Allen is our guy...

 

[Dr. Who]

24 minutes ago, Figster said:

Josh Allen from a wonderlic standpoint is the smartest QB in the draft class with by far the strongest arm and an ability to hit small windows of opportunity because of it.

 

Is Allen a project, absolutely and why we have McCarron.

 

Allen is our guy...

 

He might be, but the Browns could take him 1 overall; Giants could conceivably take him.  I doubt he falls.  You probably need to swing a deal for 2 to get him if Cleveland goes with Darnold.

[Figster]

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

He might be, but the Browns could take him 1 overall; Giants could conceivably take him.  I doubt he falls.  You probably need to swing a deal for 2 to get him if Cleveland goes with Darnold.

unfortunately,

 

 Reminds me of Newton , thought we had our guy until he climbed to the top,

 

hate it when that happens doc...

[MJS]

9 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

Allen is going to be a great QB, I think Rudolph will be an above average starter too. Both players get criticized wrongfully IMO. People will defend players like Lamar Jackson with his whopping 13 points, to bad there isn't an affirmative action for wonderlic tests. Meanwhile Allen and Rudolph triple Jackson's score yet people still defend the guy when intellectually he can't compete with 99% of the QBs in this class but yeah, keep criticizing Allen and Rudolph.

 

If only Allen could throw an accurate pass.

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

4 hours ago, WideRightRevenge said:

Check this out .. granted a couple of years old ... but kind of tells a lot I think in terms of scores for the position  ... Jackson's score doesn't help him when compared to below.  Didn't know Tyrod's score till I pulled this.  Not sure if connected ... but could illustrate why he couldn't see beyond the first receiver in a progression?

 

Arizona Cardinals	Carson Palmer	USC	2003 (1)	26
Atlanta Falcons	Matt Ryan	Boston College	2008 (3)	32
Baltimore Ravens	Joe Flacco	Delaware	2008 (18)	27
Buffalo Bills	Tyrod Taylor	Virginia Tech	2011 (180)	15
Carolina Panthers	Cam Newton	Auburn	2011 (1)	21
Chicago Bears	Jimmy Clausen	Notre Dame	2010 (48)	23
Cincinnati Bengals	Andy Dalton	TCU	2011 (35)	29
Cleveland Browns	Josh McCown	Sam Houston State	2002 (81)	30
Dallas Cowboys	Brandon Weeden	Oklahoma State	2012 (22)	27
Denver Broncos	Peyton Manning	Tennessee	1998 (1)	28
Detroit Lions	Matthew Stafford	Georgia	2009 (1)	38
Green Bay Packers	Aaron Rodgers	Cal	2005 (24)	35
Houston Texans	Ryan Mallett	Arkansas	2011 (74)	26
Indianapolis Colts	Andrew Luck	Stanford	2012 (1)	37
Jacksonville Jaguars	Blake Bortles	UCF	2014 (3)	28
Kansas City Chiefs	Alex Smith	Utah	2005 (1)	40
Miami Dolphins	Ryan Tannehill	Texas A&M	2012 (8)	34
Minnesota Vikings	Teddy Bridgewater	Louisville	2014 (32)	20
New England Patriots	Tom Brady	University of Michigan	2000 (199)	33
New Orleans Saints	Drew Brees	Louisiana Tech	2004 (106)	28
New York Giants	Eli Manning	Ole Miss	2004 (1)	39
New York Jets	Ryan Fitzpatrick	Harvard	2005 (250)	48
Oakland Raiders	Derek Carr	Fresno State	2014 (36)	20
Philadelphia Eagles	Sam Bradford	Oklahoma	2010 (1)	36
Pittsburgh Steelers	Michael Vick	Virginia Tech	2001 (1)	20
San Diego Chargers	Philip Rivers	NC State	2004 (4)	30
San Francisco 49ers	Colin Kaepernick	Nevada	2011 (36)	37
Seattle Seahawks	Russell Wilson	Wisconsin	2012 (75)	28
St. Louis Rams	Nick Foles	Arizona	2012 (88)	29
Tampa Bay Buccaneers	Jameis Winston	Florida State	2015 (1)	27
Tennessee Titans	Marcus Mariota	Oregon	2015 (2)	33
Washington Redskins	Kirk Cousins	Michigan State	2012 (102)	33

I read somewhere that most good QB's have a score of at least 25 and that's really the bar they are looking for. I see Cam and Derek Carr are both below that and may be the exception to the rule. They also stated that anything above 25 really didn't seem to make any difference on whether they performed better. 

[starrymessenger]

Smokescreen. I would not be surprised if the Bills really like Allen. They were not trying for the #3 spot to draft Lamar. You need to have a view on whether Allen can clean up his mechanical/technical issues (my guess is he can) and whether he has or can develop pocket presence (idk the answer to that question).  But if you have reasonable enuf confidence to think that the answers may be positive then you are looking at a guy who belongs at or near the top of the draft.

Edited March 30, 2018 by starrymessenger

[Mat68]

When I watch Allen's games I do not see an erratic thrower of the football.  He makes a handful of NFL level throws every game and puts them on the money.  Throws the other prospect have not and some can not make.  He is a once a generation talent.  He is not a finish product.  He also seems to have improved the areas in his footwork that at times made him throw inaccurate when he was not in balance.  Same can be said about footwork with every prospect not named Rosen.  Imo Beane will see a Newton caliber of athlete and potential.  If Allen does not go 1 that is the guy they will move up for.  There is a chance Rosen or Mayfeild will be there at 4 and would come at a fraction of the price of 2.  When you are forgoing multiple prospects for a QB if they have all the tools and are the type of prospect that come around once every 7 years years interns of ability and potential I think that is the type of prospect to take that chance with.

[BillsMafioso]

56 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

He might be, but the Browns could take him 1 overall; Giants could conceivably take him.  I doubt he falls.  You probably need to swing a deal for 2 to get him if Cleveland goes with Darnold.

I disagree. I think it's likely that Allen falls. As stated before, he is a Project. Look whos picking in the top 5...all head coaches who are on the hotseat (besides giants). 

Edited March 30, 2018 by BillsMafioso

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, BillsMafioso said:

I disagree. I think it's likely that Allen falls. As stated before, he is a Project. Look whos picking in the top 5...all head coaches who are on the hotseat (besides giants). 

Still think the Browns might like him and are okay with Tyrod for a year or two.  Giants might take him with Eli starting for a year or two.  Broncos have Keesum who could start for a couple of years.  It's all guesswork and he might fall, but I think his potential will induce a high pick from someone.

[BillsMafioso]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Still think the Browns might like him and are okay with Tyrod for a year or two.  Giants might take him with Eli starting for a year or two.  Broncos have Keesum who could start for a couple of years.  It's all guesswork and he might fall, but I think his potential will induce a high pick from someone.

But by this very logic, with the Browns, Jets (they'll draft Rosen or Mayfield), and Broncos all having coaches surely out if THIS year goes wrong, how does it make sense to invest a top 5 pick at a position where the "hole" has been filled for the next "year or two". #1 priority of all Head coaches - Save my job

 

I agree...its all completely random. Just sharing my thoughts

Edited March 30, 2018 by BillsMafioso

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, BillsMafioso said:

But by this very logic, with the Browns, Jets, and Broncos all having coaches surely out if this year goes wrong, how does it make sense to invest a top 5 pick at a position where the "hole" has been filled for the next "year or two".

 

I agree...its all completely random. Just sharing my thoughts

Don't see the Jets taking Allen.  I think the owner and new GM in Cleveland may value Allen.  I don't think Hue Jackson will determine that pick.  Giants may reasonably think they are unlikely to be at 2 again any time soon and it is a good opportunity to draft Eli's eventual successor.  If Elway sees himself in Allen, he may pull the trigger.  Of course, this is all speculation.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Dr. Who

[BillsMafioso]

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

Don't see the Jets taking Allen.  I think the owner and new GM in Cleveland may value Allen.  I don't think Hue Jackson will determine that pick.  Giants may reasonably think they are unlikely to be at 2 again any time soon and it is a good opportunity to draft Eli's eventual successor.  If Elway sees himself in Allen, he may pull the trigger.  Of course, this is all speculation.

Perhaps, but these are all uphill scenarios considering the state of each organization right now.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

7 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

We don’t need A quarterback, we need the right quarterback. I don’t want them to take a QB just because one is there. If they see a potential franchise QB in this draft then they will likely have to trade up to get him and I hope they do if it’s not too costly. 

 

Don’t take a QB just to say you did. And if you can't get the QB you want in round 1, start building the team around McCarron/Peterman and a round 2 or 3 QB if there is one that might fit.

 

BS, this is supposedly the deepest QB draft since 2004 where Eli manning, Phillip Rivers and big Ben were drafted, the draft experts are saying there could be up to 5 franchise QB's to come out of this draft class... I'm assuming it's Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield and Jackson... No more excuses.

[buffaloboyinATL]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

BS, this is supposedly the deepest QB draft since 2004 where Eli manning, Phillip Rivers and big Ben were drafted, the draft experts are saying there could be up to 5 franchise QB's to come out of this draft class... I'm assuming it's Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield and Jackson... No more excuses.

Sorry, I disagree. You can't just draft a guy cause he is available at your pick, you have to evaluate them all, decide which one or ones you believe are potential franchise QB's and do whatever you can to draft him. But if the one (s) you want are gone, you can't just take the next guy on the list because "experts" said it's a good QB draft class. Choosing the wrong guy can hold a franchise back for years. Remember, JP Losman was also a first round pick that year. 

[Misterbluesky]

14 hours ago, Scorp83 said:

Allow my guy Chris Brown to provide some facts on Allen. If he was at 12... the Bills will draft Calvin Ridley before they take Allen! It's just common sense. Some of you have to pay attention the way this front office works. If there is one person the Bills are not interested in... That's Josh Allen. & that's not opinion...its a fact!

 

03-26 John Murphy Show HR 2 - Chris Brown destroys Allen

https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/wgr550.hosted.cx/hosting/media/wgr550/1642018/122301576.mp3

Next week we'll see a report by a media guy who claims the Bills love him.

[Greensleeves]

This is why Josh Allen may be the best QB in this class and why he may go #1 overall. IMO, Mayfield will take more time to adjust to the NFL because he never played under center. Allen played on a lesser team with a bad line, below average receivers and didn't pad his stats with screen passes. Take a look at this post from another message board:

 

 I just learned a ton from this post on a message board on why comparing college QBs stats is an exercise in futility. I really want Rosen, but Allen would be my second choice after reading this.

This is a great explanation that shows why comparing completion %, etc. amongst college QBs is near impossible based on how most systems are too far removed from the NFL Game. This was taken from another message board, but I learned a lot from it. Makes me really want Rosen or Allen.

I really... really.... really.... despise stats at the NFL level. But I literally fall down laughing at them when someone compares the stats of college QB's. Trust me man.... this is useless information. But I'd be glad to explain it anyways. 

The first thing you need to understand is that college is different than the pro's. It's a bunch of young kids who have severely limited practice time via the NCAA. Therefore the game is based entirely on athleticism. The most effective systems in college are the Spread and Air Raid. The Air Raid for example is a conceptual offense that runs about 10 plays based on "concepts" rather than actual play calls. Your 5 year old could learn to run an Air Raid offense. Kids that come out of these systems have jacked up stats. Because the systems are entirely based on their athleticism. Previous QB's in these systems include Johnny Manziel who had EXCELLENT completion percentage and sucked balls in the NFL because he couldn't learn to run a timing offense to save his life. 

Josh Allen and Josh Rosen are in pure pro style offenses which are MUCH too complicated to run at the college level. Josh Allen's HC runs this type of system because he's trying to groom NFL QB's in order to get notoriety for his program. Carson Wentz came from the same system and was recruited by the same guy. Because Pro style systems are 100 times more complicated and much less effective their QB stats are not comparable to other college systems. Pro style QB's in college throw less TD's, have lower completion percentages, and throw more INT's. This is especially true if they are on a bad football team. Because the pro style offense is built on timing. It's an intricate machine in which every moving part has to be in the right place at the right time. There is predesigned footwork (developed by Paul Brown BTW) for every single throw. Go watch this and you'll have a better understanding of it.  
https://scout.com/nfl/browns/Video/QB-Walsh-part-1-of-7-8260141?View=Full

Once you understand how footwork is intricately tied to the timing and accuracy of plays in a pro style offense then you have to determine three things to judge a guys accuracy (especially in college.) First.... does the line consistently give him time to execute his footwork properly? In Josh Allens case the answer is hell no. Second.... Do the WR's properly count their steps, avoid the press, and create the proper window at the proper time. In Josh Allens case the answer is hell no. Third.... If the first two worked properly did the QB execute sound footwork and body mechanics delivering an accurate pass. In Josh Allens case the answer is hell no because it was impossible. But when he did..... he was very accurate and decisive. 

What we have here is a system that's much too complicated for college football. It's much less effective. His football team was consistently a 2 win team for a long time prior to his arrival. They are not good at recruiting. They are not even the best of the bottom of the barrel of a division 2 team. And yet Josh Allen led them to back to back 8 win seasons with bowl appearances. 

The kid was asked to be 100% of the offense. He learned some really bad habits. His coach basically said they knew they didn't have the talent to win so they crossed their fingers and chunked it almost every play. They didn't run the ball. They put it all on Allen and the kid made some amazing plays to keep them in football games. 

He needs to be retrained. But even with the bad habits he's still better prepared and less of a project than Darnold or Mayfield because they are both spread QB's. I firmly believe that Rosen is the best QB in this class. I'd take him in a heartbeat. But I have a sneaking suspicion that Allen may end up the best of the bunch and dare I say has HoF potential. He's tough as hell. Most of his games are in the ice and snow in Wyoming. He fights like hell. He just has a bad habit of throwing off balance and making ill advised throws because he had to. The kids a winner pure and simple. Whoever takes him is going to have some rough going if he starts as a rookie. Lots of people are going to call me a moron. But by his third year he could be the best in this class and possibly even one of the best in the league. 

I watch him play and see a lot of Favre and Brees when he was younger. Plus the kid has really quick feet. It's not going to be difficult at all to hone his footwork.

[auburnbillsbacker]

Dear original poster,

I think it is likely you are wrong but time will tell.

[Solomon Grundy]

7 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Its definitely true i watched enough.  Allen plays like he's in some school yard playing with his buddies.

 

He's always leaving the pocket way to early and u can tell the play is not called for a roll-out. 

 

He has no anticipation whatsoever waiting for Wrs to come open before passing the ball way to often.

 

And the accuracy well u don't have to spend more then 5mins watching film to see that he's not accurate .

 

Allen is the white Cardele Jones but without the accolades. 

WRONG!!!! Didn't Cardale WIN something?

[NastyNateSoldiers]

2 minutes ago, the skycap said:

WRONG!!!! Didn't Cardale WIN something?

Exactly i said he's Cardele but without the accolades.

[Socal-805]

14 hours ago, purple haze said:

What does his Wonderlic score have to do with his play or what do the scores of Rudolph or Allen have to do with their play?

Jackson won the Heisnan and was a finalist to win it again this past season.  I did not see 99% of the other QBs in the draft up for the award.  Jackson impacted games with his arm and his legs against a higher level of competition than Allen and in profoundly more dynamic ways than Rudolph.  He's not my first choice, but I keep seeing some twist themselves in knots trying to discredit Jackson with misinformation or irrelevant information.  It's actually weird.

 

You know nothing of any of their intellects.  You know what they scored on a test of random information; The scores do not make one intelligent per se or indicate any savvy in navigating a football field or life in general.  Go get Fitz out of Tampa Bay.  He scored 48 on the almighty Wonderlic.  All those facts made his play so much better when he played for the Bills three teams ago. ?

 

 

 

 

 

A 13???

 

 

[purple haze]

5 minutes ago, Socal-805 said:

 

A 13???

 

 

Jim Kelly a 15.  Dan Marino a 16.  Donovan McNabb, I believe was a 14.  Ryan Fitzpatrick and Greg McElroy did great on it.  Want them?  Kaepernick scored about 40.  He's available.  

 

Does not matter.

[Missouribillsfan]

Lamar Jackson is tyrod 2.0  I don't think we need that   we  need a qb that is a stud  plain and simple  go get Rosen  at all costs  even if it cost 10 first round picks i have  studied  game tape on all the top 7 qb in this draft  I think  Rosen will be  the next  tom Brady  I know  people  are worried about concussions with him so if I were the Gm this  is would trade up for Rosen finding away to hold on to 22 and shock the lease a draft Rudolph  at 22 as well

 

[Dr. Who]

2 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

This is why Josh Allen may be the best QB in this class and why he may go #1 overall. IMO, Mayfield will take more time to adjust to the NFL because he never played under center. Allen played on a lesser team with a bad line, below average receivers and didn't pad his stats with screen passes. Take a look at this post from another message board:

 

 I just learned a ton from this post on a message board on why comparing college QBs stats is an exercise in futility. I really want Rosen, but Allen would be my second choice after reading this. This is a great explanation that shows why comparing completion %, etc. amongst college QBs is near impossible based on how most systems are too far removed from the NFL Game. This was taken from another message board, but I learned a lot from it. Makes me really want Rosen or Allen.

 

I really... really.... really.... despise stats at the NFL level. But I literally fall down laughing at them when someone compares the stats of college QB's. Trust me man.... this is useless information. But I'd be glad to explain it anyways. 

 

The first thing you need to understand is that college is different than the pro's. It's a bunch of young kids who have severely limited practice time via the NCAA. Therefore the game is based entirely on athleticism. The most effective systems in college are the Spread and Air Raid. The Air Raid for example is a conceptual offense that runs about 10 plays based on "concepts" rather than actual play calls. Your 5 year old could learn to run an Air Raid offense. Kids that come out of these systems have jacked up stats. Because the systems are entirely based on their athleticism. Previous QB's in these systems include Johnny Manziel who had EXCELLENT completion percentage and sucked balls in the NFL because he couldn't learn to run a timing offense to save his life. 

 

Josh Allen and Josh Rosen are in pure pro style offenses which are MUCH too complicated to run at the college level. Josh Allen's HC runs this type of system because he's trying to groom NFL QB's in order to get notoriety for his program. Carson Wentz came from the same system and was recruited by the same guy. Because Pro style systems are 100 times more complicated and much less effective their QB stats are not comparable to other college systems. Pro style QB's in college throw less TD's, have lower completion percentages, and throw more INT's. This is especially true if they are on a bad football team. Because the pro style offense is built on timing. It's an intricate machine in which every moving part has to be in the right place at the right time. There is predesigned footwork (developed by Paul Brown BTW) for every single throw. Go watch this and you'll have a better understanding of it.  
https://scout.com/nfl/browns/Video/QB-Walsh-part-1-of-7-8260141?View=Full

 

Once you understand how footwork is intricately tied to the timing and accuracy of plays in a pro style offense then you have to determine three things to judge a guys accuracy (especially in college.) First.... does the line consistently give him time to execute his footwork properly? In Josh Allens case the answer is hell no. Second.... Do the WR's properly count their steps, avoid the press, and create the proper window at the proper time. In Josh Allens case the answer is hell no. Third.... If the first two worked properly did the QB execute sound footwork and body mechanics delivering an accurate pass. In Josh Allens case the answer is hell no because it was impossible. But when he did..... he was very accurate and decisive. 

 

What we have here is a system that's much too complicated for college football. It's much less effective. His football team was consistently a 2 win team for a long time prior to his arrival. They are not good at recruiting. They are not even the best of the bottom of the barrel of a division 2 team. And yet Josh Allen led them to back to back 8 win seasons with bowl appearances. The kid was asked to be 100% of the offense. He learned some really bad habits. His coach basically said they knew they didn't have the talent to win so they crossed their fingers and chunked it almost every play. They didn't run the ball. They put it all on Allen and the kid made some amazing plays to keep them in football games. 

 

He needs to be retrained. But even with the bad habits he's still better prepared and less of a project than Darnold or Mayfield because they are both spread QB's. I firmly believe that Rosen is the best QB in this class. I'd take him in a heartbeat. But I have a sneaking suspicion that Allen may end up the best of the bunch and dare I say has HoF potential. He's tough as hell. Most of his games are in the ice and snow in Wyoming. He fights like hell. He just has a bad habit of throwing off balance and making ill advised throws because he had to. The kids a winner pure and simple. Whoever takes him is going to have some rough going if he starts as a rookie. Lots of people are going to call me a moron. But by his third year he could be the best in this class and possibly even one of the best in the league. I watch him play and see a lot of Favre and Brees when he was younger. Plus the kid has really quick feet. It's not going to be difficult at all to hone his footwork.

Paragraphs are your friend^^^^  and yes, I like Allen. 

[BigDingus]

I'd take ANYONE over Allen, and I think the Bills brass has the same mindset (thank God).
 

Might as well say "I hate my job & don't want a career anymore" if you draft him.

[Scorp83]

16 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Allen averaged a putrid 4.4 ypa vs power 5 teams.  He has NO consistent 

Anticipation 

Accuracy 

Awareness 

Timing

 

Most importantly these problems stem from the internal clock in his head that's borderline unteachable on any level. The mental part of the gm is the most important factor in playing QB at a high level. He just doesn't have it.  He's a project QB at best and because of his arm strength should go starting in the 3rd rd. But obviously there's coaches and GMs that think they can fix em and they will reach high and take him early in the 1st. Whomever that team is there front office will not last long Allen will cost them there jobs.

Thank you! Anyone that actually watched him play can say this!

9 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

Dear original poster,

I think it is likely you are wrong but time will tell.

If I'm betting on Allen? Oh I'll be right! The eyeball test doesn't lie. Look, I get we have a whole new generation fanbase...& I'm not old but I've been watching this team & football for a very long time... I'm not always right... but when I see something bad, I'm able to identify it. Allen is literally J.P. Losman, Kyle Boller, Patrick Ramsey, Jake Locker All in one! All these QB's had a big arm & was athletic in the pocket. But they all had the same issue... lack of accuracy & anticipation.  

 

Plus...IF YOU LISTEN to my link... Chris Brown was down at the Senior Bowl & during the practice... Allen failed to throw a swing pass to the flats, a 10 yard out, & a back shoulder throw.... wow. Like he can't do it...with no pressure of a defense. Why do you think he kept showing off his arm on 9 routes??  It's literally the ONLY THING HE CAN DO CONSISTENTLY 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Scorp83

[thunderingsquid]

I think the three Allen supporters on these boards are diddling around on fortnite tonight.

[Scorp83]

4 minutes ago, thunderingsquid said:

I think the three Allen supporters on these boards are diddling around on fortnite tonight.

???  are there really 3? It definitely feels like it's more... we have posters suggesting we trade up for Allen. People need to stop listening to most of these experts & go watch his games....not his highlights on YouTube. Go watch his bad decision making, accuracy issues. I have some great scouting reports on Allen. I'm a post one.

[Inigo Montoya]

I have enjoyed the many threads on who the best QB is on this message board over the last several weeks.  I don't follow the college game closely and I really don't know much about these QBs except for what I have read on this board.

 

Here is a quick synopsis of what I have learned about the QBs in this year's draft on this message board;

 

1.  Each of the top 6 quarterbacks is the very best one for the Bills to draft

2.  Each of the top 6 quarterbacks is a terrible fit for the Bills and is a guaranteed bust

3.  Each of the top 6 quarterbacks, whichever is selected by the Bills, will result in some posters never watching the Buffalo Bills again

4.  Each of the top 6 quarterbacks is worth trading what ever draft picks are needed in order to move up and draft them 

5.  Each of the top 6 quarterbacks has serious flaws and we should not waste draft picks to trade up for them, but should draft other positions instead

 

With this knowledge in hand, I confess the only thing that I'm certain of is that I'm glad I'm not McBeane....    

 

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Inigo Montoya

[Scorp83]

16 hours ago, mrags said:

So by your logic, just because there is a lack of interest being reported by the Bills they must want Allen? Hell, they aren’t talking about me, does that mean I’m getting drafted? 

 

Besides, hopefully they do draft him. If nothing more, I just to see you get all mad 

Sounds like you have hate in your blood!

 

I'm here because I love the Bills... I'm here to enlighten my fellow fans especially if they're not seeing things clearly. I don't want our beloved Bills to get laughed at for trading up assets for a project like Allen who's very limited in his game. I want us to get a legit QB...not a guy who can't throw to Rb's in the flats. I want a real QB not J.P. Losman... sorry if you were very young or wasn't around during that era... but it was the worst. 

 

There is nothing...& I mean nothing special about Allen other then his big arm. You know who else had a big arm? Kyle Boller, Patrick Ramsey, Tim Tebow...sorry bro...i need to Bills to succeed...not look like a dumpster fire

9 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I have enjoyed the many threads on who the best QB is on this message board over the last several weeks.  I don't follow the college game closely and I really don't know much about these QBs except for what I have read on this board.

 

Here is a quick synopsis of what I have learned about the QBs in this year's draft on this message board;

 

1.  Each of the top 6 quarterbacks is the very best one for the Bills to draft

2.  Each of the top 6 quarterbacks is a terrible fit for the Bills and is a guaranteed bust

3.  Each of the top quarterbacks, whichever is selected by the Bills, will result in some posters never watching the Buffalo Bills again

4.  Each of the top 6 quarterbacks is worth trading what ever draft picks are needed in order to move up and draft them 

5.  Each of the top 6 quarterbacks has serious flaws and we should not waste draft picks to trade up for them, but should draft other positions instead

 

With this knowledge in hand, I confess the only thing that I'm certain of is that I'm glad I'm not McBeane....    

Your the kinda person I post these links for. Please don't go by the posts... unless someone provides a link. Like my Chris Brown Link in my OP.

 

Here's a few more: 

 

03-20 Mark Schofield of Inside the Pylon with Howard and Jeremy - http://www.wgr550.com/media/podcast/howard-and-jeremy

 

Watch "Film Room: Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming Scouting Report (NFL Draft 2018 Ep. 6)" on YouTube

 

Watch "Film Room: Lamar Jackson, QB, Louisville Scouting Report (NFL Draft 2018 Ep. 5)" on YouTube

 

Watch "Film Room: Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma Scouting Report (NFL Draft 2018 Ep. 3)" on YouTube

 

Granted I can sit here & give you a full breakdown... but doing so will have people misinterpret as if it's my opinion. So to give you a fast track so you don't have to sit around & watch film all weekend. Click my links... & enjoy. Trust... these dudes are legit... the breakdowns are facts! Not opinion... I approve. Scorp won't let you down!

[Spiderweb]

16 hours ago, ColdFront_USAF said:

 

Jackson is not my first choice, but this is just untrue. Watch some film breakdowns of him done by people that know more than either of us about the position. You will see a ton of examples of Lamar standing firm in the pocket, looking through multiple reads and throwing a catchable ball in the face of pressure. He even does some Brady-like moves in the pocket, taking small but effective steps up or away from pressure while still keeping his feet set and his eyes downfield, and reading the whole field.  He generally doesn't take off to run unless there is legitimately nobody open and his time in the pocket has expired, and he uses that to create some mind blowing plays. 

 

Now I'm not saying he's Brady or even close, just that the film disagrees with your assessment. He's a passer first with an amazing ability to run when the play breaks down. 

Accuracy is Jackson's achilles heal. Tape and the combine showed this is lacking with Jackson. Combine also showed less than desireable velocity on his throws. And sadly, the wonderlic score does matter. How much? I hope we find out by watching Jackson play for another team, just not for the Bills. 

[Scorp83]

13 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

Accuracy is Jackson's achilles heal. Tape and the combine showed this is lacking with Jackson. Combine also showed less than desireable velocity on his throws. And sadly, the wonderlic score does matter. How much? I hope we find out by watching Jackson play for another team, just not for the Bills. 

Jackson actually improved his accuracy last year... his had the worst WR drop percentage out of the top QB's in this class at 8.5%

 

& he still improved! & almost won't the heisman again with a worst O-line & supporting cast!

 

Jackson is my 3rd best QB...but he isn't as bad as your making him seem. Your post should be applied to Allen. Guess who had the 2nd best WR drop percentage? Josh Allen... he WR caught the ball... so how in the world is his passing pct... lower then Jackson's? 3% lower then Jackson. If Jackson had guy's thay didn't drop the ball alot... he'd be over 60% & not at 59.1% this is why Jackson is a better prospect. He shows growth in his game GM's gush over that.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Scorp83