Is there a rush to judgement on Peterman?

[Southern Bills Fan]

30 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Add in that he is not poised when pressured.  He completely melts down and makes poor decisions. 

This is just a ridiculous statement. The guy has hardly played and was a rookie. There is plenty of film of him in college making plays under pressure as well as some nice throws under pressure in the Colts game. He may or may not pan out but your "expert" opinion based on less than 2 full games of action is laughable. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

17 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

A weak arm that give DBs no fear of getting beat deep in combination of panic under pressure is a recipe for failure.   Easy for the to squat on routes with plenty of opportunities for interceptions as he have seen.  Not starting material.

 

2 of his picks were out routes, where the timing was great but the trajectory was bad and they sat on the routes.  Both were basically pick 6's (ramsay fell down or something i can't remember and don't care to watch it)

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

2 of his picks were out routes, where the timing was great but the trajectory was bad and they sat on the routes.  Both were basically pick 6's (ramsay fell down or something i can't remember and don't care to watch it)

 

No enough arm to drive it on those routes.  CBs salivate when he plays.  On to the 2018 draft. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[bmur66]

I think yes. It's possible he could improve and make some eat their words. I think he throws a nice ball. The big difference from playing catch with Tyrod is that the receiver better be ready because that ball may be coming right now. Not like Tyrod where the receiver is wide open waiting for him to throw it. I think Peterman will be much better in an offense that uses quick timing passes. But what do I know?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

There is a MAJOR difference of thinking a guy will play one way or another and then there is what he could do if he has a season of starts to pass judgment on.  

 

I have as much knowledge of what he is as anyone else here.  

 

To think  you know is not fact but opinion.  

9 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

2 of his picks were out routes, where the timing was great but the trajectory was bad and they sat on the routes.  Both were basically pick 6's (ramsay fell down or something i can't remember and don't care to watch it)

26 NateHater made up his mind midway through preseason.  

 

Argue with him and you can expect snark and insults instead of well thought out reasons OE  a CopyPaste of someone else’s thoughts. 

 

Yes he sucked in the Chargers game but not in others.  

Edited March 21, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[corta765]

No he was drafted as a 5th round pick with limits to his arm strength and 99% of 5th round QBs turn into nothing.

 

In his only true start he threw 5 INTs. Saints and Colts were some good some bad.

 

So in his limited work he had the worst half by a QB ever, people don't forget that stuff. If he is something then he will prove so come training camp, pre season, etc..

Edited March 21, 2018 by corta765

[Kirby Jackson]

20 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I see him being more entrenched on the roster than you do. If he is the third qb then so be it. The injury rate is high so I wouldn't be so readily to extract him from the roster. Would I want him as a replacement qb for a four game stretch? I would be troubled by that much extensive play. But I do think that he is a smart guy who knows the offense and will maybe not help you much but might not hurt you much when you have to resort to using him. In a league noted for its attrition rate there is a utility and role for this back end player. 

I’ll give the same answer I said last year with Yates (and he was cut). If you can pick the guy back up of the street (or even a better option) why use the roster spot on him? If you cut Peterman he almost assuredly makes it back to the PS (unless Dennison gets his way again). If he doesn’t, who cares? Cutler, Stanton, Gabbert, Geno, EJ, Cassel, Anderson, Moore, Sanchez and Osweiler all are out there. Some will remain unsigned. If, god forbid, your QB goes out for an extended period would you rather have Peterman or one of those guys as your number 2? They have all had more success than him to date. 

[HamSandwhich]

42 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Yes many fans are completely giving up on him way too soon. 

This

[Sky Diver]

25 minutes ago, rodneykm said:

I was on his side even after the Chargers game. What really changed my mind was the last throw against Jacksonville. To me, that showed that his arm strength is not good enough to make the throws he'll need to make at the NFL level. That being said, I think he can still be a decent backup to help a team out for a couple of games a year if needed. 

 

I hope I'm 100% wrong and he turns out to be the next Tom Brady. 

 

To me it was just a bad decision.

 

[Matt_In_NH]

Yes, he threw 5 picks in 2 quarters....when else has that ever happened?

[McBean]

Bold prediction: Nate wins the starting job for next year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

jk

[JPP]

I ask myself this.....would i be comfortable if he had to take over and start a game next season for my Bills....a resounding  hell no!

[VADC Bills]

He should be cut and I really liked the pick when it was made in last years draft. However with a week of prep he threw 5 picks in the first half of the Charger game.

He doesn't have the arm. I think J Webb is better. Peterman should go.

[Da webster guy]

40 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

he did pretty well in the Snow Game against the Colts, all things considered.

 

And a nice drive at end of Saints game.

 

The San Diego game seemed like a great place to start him at the time, because that stadium was not loud at all and there would be no issues with sound.    The biggest problem was that we could not handle Bosa and the Chargers pass rush.   Mills was such a mess that day--he can hold his own in run blocking but he whiffed repeatedly and Peterman had a guy in his face all day.   Obviously the first pick wasn't his fault, DiMarco's stone hands were.   

 

But the biggest problem he showed was not enough zip on the out routes that day, and trying to do too much.   That might be his downfall for the pro's, although at training camp he seemed to have a cannon on those sideline throws.  I specifically remember thinking that watching guys catch his passes from 30 feet away--this guy can rope this ball when he wants to.   Go to camp this year and judge it yourself.

 

Good showing at the Indy game, although I couldn't see much with a frozen face.

 

 

 

 

.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Da webster guy

[HamSandwhich]

1 minute ago, mattynh said:

Yes, he threw 5 picks in 2 quarters....when else has that ever happened?

Plenty of anomolies happen in this world. Do you honestly think that he will do that again? Is something that happened once suddenly how the world works? 

 

Nate is not any one game, the over reaction is ridiculous. 

[starrymessenger]

6 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

2 of his picks were out routes, where the timing was great but the trajectory was bad and they sat on the routes.  Both were basically pick 6's (ramsay fell down or something i can't remember and don't care to watch it)

 

If we are talking about the same plays, where Thompson was the target, one was an overthrow (I dont think it lacked pace) and in the other it was Thompson who "sat" on the route. I could be wrong but for now I can't comfortably conclude that the guy has no place on an nfl roster. I think part of his problem may be overcompensating by putting a little too much mustard on the ball at times, sort of how Fitz did from time to time. Question remains whether he can make the throws if he tones it down a bit. Lack of talent or lack of experience? I dont feel like I can say for sure. Yet. 

[DFT]

Yes there is.  And it’s a shame, because he’s actually a talented football player that they seem very high on.

[Woodman19]

To me the biggest test is this year, a rookie is a rookie and they make stupid mistakes for a variety of reasons.  Can he come back and learn to take less risky throws now that he has seen NFL defenses pick you apart on imperfect decisions?

[dpberr]

He wasn't ready for prime time.  You could tell the game was too fast for him.  

 

He was put in some crap spots too by the coaching staff.  Starting a game in a playoff run, in place of the benched starter, a snow game, and the last desperate gasp of the wild card game.  

 

Training camp will be interesting to watch because I think he'll be improved over last year, perhaps with a better plan for the offense too.  

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Da webster guy said:

 

And a nice drive at end of Saints game.

 

The San Diego game seemed like a great place to start him at the time, because that stadium was not loud at all and there would be no issues with sound.    The biggest problem was that we could not handle Bosa and the Chargers pass rush.   Mills was such a mess that day--he can hold his own in run blocking but he whiffed repeatedly and Peterman had a guy in his face all day.   Obviously the first pick wasn't his fault, DiMarco's stone hands were.   

 

But the biggest problem he showed was not enough zip on the out routes that day, and trying to do too much.   That might be his downfall for the pro's, although at training camp he seemed to have a cannon on those sideline throws.  I specifically remember thinking that from 30 feet away--this guy can rope this ball when he wants to.   Go to camp this year and judge it yourself.

 

Good showing at the Indy game, although I couldn't see much with a frozen face.

 

You can throw the Saints' game in the trash. They simply didn't care up 47-3.  I wish he showed up in San Diego instead of LA   He was okay against the Colts (5-10 for 57 yards) and he did make a couple of nice throws to Benjamin.   

5 minutes ago, dpberr said:

He wasn't ready for prime time.  You could tell the game was too fast for him.  

 

He was put in some crap spots too by the coaching staff.  Starting a game in a playoff run, in place of the benched starter, a snow game, and the last desperate gasp of the wild card game.  

 

Training camp will be interesting to watch because I think he'll be improved over last year, perhaps with a better plan for the offense too.  

 

Why do you think so?

 

6 minutes ago, DFT said:

Yes there is.  And it’s a shame, because he’s actually a talented football player that they seem very high on.

 

Is that why they are traversing the country to prod, poke, and examine every QB in the 2018 draft while positioning themselves to select one in the 1st round? 

[DFT]

8 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You can throw the Saints' game in the trash. They simply didn't care up 47-3.  I wish he showed up in San Diego instead of LA   He was okay against the Colts (5-10 for 57 yards) and he did make a couple of nice throws to Benjamin.   

 

Why do you think so?

 

 

Is that why they are traversing the country to prod, poke, and examine every QB in the 2018 draft while positioning themselves to select one in the 1st round? 

Yes.  Yes it is.   You said it yourself.

[THEHARDTRUTH]

If concluding that hes lousy is a rush to judgment then yea.

[suorangefan4]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

Would you say arm strength is 100% of his issue?  To me it seemed the rest of his game looked pretty good but he just didn't get enough on the ball. 

 

The same people who say he doesn't have enough arm strength are the same people that never say anything about Deshaun Watson or Lamar Jackson's terrible arm strength.

 

Throwing velocity

 

Nathan Peterman: 53 MPH

Deshaun Watson: 49 MPH

Lamar Jackson: 49 MPH

[Matt_In_NH]

16 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

Plenty of anomolies happen in this world. Do you honestly think that he will do that again? Is something that happened once suddenly how the world works? 

 

Nate is not any one game, the over reaction is ridiculous. 

 

Maybe it is an over reaction but there is nothing positive to play that off on.  When he got into the playoff game he started making predictable throws and eventually got picked.  Now that was a tough position and picks often happen in that game situation but he just seems way too willing to throw the ball to the wrong place.  If he is good, he will get another chance.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, suorangefan4 said:

 

The same people who say he doesn't have enough arm strength are the same people that never say anything about Deshaun Watson or Lamar Jackson's terrible arm strength.

 

Throwing velocity

 

Nathan Peterman: 53 MPH

Deshaun Watson: 49 MPH

Lamar Jackson: 49 MPH

 

Combine ball speeds?  Come on man!

[suorangefan4]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Combine ball speeds?  Come on man!

 

Ignoring an actual test to determine these things? Come on on man!

 

 

[DFT]

2 minutes ago, suorangefan4 said:

 

The same people who say he doesn't have enough arm strength are the same people that never say anything about Deshaun Watson or Lamar Jackson's terrible arm strength.

 

Throwing velocity

 

Nathan Peterman: 53 MPH

Deshaun Watson: 49 MPH

Lamar Jackson: 49 MPH

I think he’s fine, arm strength wise.  But I don’t think he has even close to Jackson’s velocity. I don’t think this is the best representation.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, suorangefan4 said:

Ignoring an actual test to determine these things? Come on on man!

 

The actual tests are when NFL games are played. 

[starrymessenger]

1 minute ago, DFT said:

I think he’s fine, arm strength wise.  But I don’t think he has even close to Jackson’s velocity. I don’t think this is the best representation.

 

Yeah I really don't understand this velocity thing very well. To me Jackson's tape shows plenty enuf arm strength ( and occasionally even some real arm talent). As for Peterman I'm not yet ready to say he has a noodle arm. Need to see more. This year in TC he needs to show that he is starting to acclimate to nfl gamespeed. If that does'nt happen then yeah he's probably just another 5th round QB so no surprise there.

[Herb62]

Bills fans will never give him a chance.  Trade him and allow him a chance with a new team.

[The Tomcat]

I think Tyrod covered up many of our pocket protecting problems.  Our line was not the best setting the pocket and Peterman got pressured from all sides from one of the best pressuring defense after his#1 (and only 1) target got taken out after just a few plays.    I am not giving up on him.  I actually like him more then most.  He needs a stronger arm for sure.  Not sure if "Chad Pennington" can play in this NFL on a consistent basis. 

 

I don't think Petermans story has been completely written.  This next training camp is going to be interesting which is awesome!

 

 

[DFT]

2 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Yeah I really don't understand this velocity thing very well. To me Jackson's tape shows plenty enuf arm strength ( and occasionally even some real arm talent). As for Peterman I'm not yet ready to say he has a noodle arm. Need to see more. This year in TC he needs to show that he is starting to acclimate to nfl gamespeed. If that does'nt happen then yeah he's probably just another 5th round QB so no surprise there.

It’s a very questionable test that scouts have asked to be removed.  It’s radar driven and does not account for in-game velocity, which is why “timing” QBs like Goff can show much better than effortless throwers like Jackson.  12 gauge probably has the NFLs strongest arm and he opted out of the drill, entirely.  He listed an injury, but this is not an uncommon thing for QBs to hate.  It’s just so inaccurate.  I wish they would do something similar to the old Pro Bowl (who can throw from their knees best) test.  A rhythm passer knows when to swing his hip for addded velocity (Brees, Brady.).  An effortless thrower...   not so much.  True arm strength can only be measured without hip inclusion in my opinion

[starrymessenger]

1 minute ago, DFT said:

It’s a very questionable test that scouts have asked to be removed.  It’s radar driven and does not account for in-game velocity, which is why “timing” QBs like Goff can show much better than effortless throwers like Jackson.  12 gauge probably has the NFLs strongest arm and he opted out of the drill, entirely.  He listed an injury, but this is not an uncommon thing for QBs to hate.  It’s just so inaccurate.  I wish they would do something similar to the old Pro Bowl (who can throw from their knees best) test.  A rhythm passer knows when to swing his hip for addded velocity (Brees, Brady.).  An effortless thrower...   not so much.  True arm strength can only be measured without hip inclusion in my opinion

 

Interesting. Thanks. One of the criticisms I have come across more than once in evaluations of Allen's mechanics is that he does not rotate his hips properly and so actually sacrifices optimal velocity ie its all arm strength. I dont myself see this when he gets to set up and fire from a clean pocket, which is logically where you'd expect to notice it, but it may be true. 

[HamSandwhich]

23 minutes ago, mattynh said:

 

Maybe it is an over reaction but there is nothing positive to play that off on.  When he got into the playoff game he started making predictable throws and eventually got picked.  Now that was a tough position and picks often happen in that game situation but he just seems way too willing to throw the ball to the wrong place.  If he is good, he will get another chance.

I trust the process.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Sky Diver said:

Plenty of QBs who have had illustrious careers have had horrible starts.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000445192/article/troy-aikman-peyton-manning-among-qbs-with-bad-first-starts

 

Sure- I mean this article was right about JFF, so it might be about ... oh wait ?

[JohnC]

31 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’ll give the same answer I said last year with Yates (and he was cut). If you can pick the guy back up of the street (or even a better option) why use the roster spot on him? If you cut Peterman he almost assuredly makes it back to the PS (unless Dennison gets his way again). If he doesn’t, who cares? Cutler, Stanton, Gabbert, Geno, EJ, Cassel, Anderson, Moore, Sanchez and Osweiler all are out there. Some will remain unsigned. If, god forbid, your QB goes out for an extended period would you rather have Peterman or one of those guys as your number 2? They have all had more success than him to date. 

As far as I'm concerned the Peterman issue is a marginal issue. Why put so much emphasis on such a periphery issue when there are core issues that need to be addressed such as the OL, receiver and LB units. Why so much distaste for a player when the options aren't perceptibly better? (You may disagree with that judgment?)  I am not bothered by Peterman's role as a backup or more likely backup to the backup. 

 

I think that some of the lingering hostility towards Peterman is a result of his replacement of Taylor as a starter in the Charger game. Some people can't let it go and continue to refer to that debacle as a basis for their view of Peterman. My interpretation from his starting is guided more from Taylor's failures as a qb than to Peterman's assets as a qb. The point is that the volatile Taylor issue has for many people bled into the perception of Peterman.  

 

When all is said and done I believe that Peterman will be on the roster when the season starts. He won't have a significant role but he will have a role on this team. That's how I see it and I'm not bothered by it. 

 

 

[DFT]

5 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Interesting. Thanks. One of the criticisms I have come across more than once in evaluations of Allen's mechanics is that he does not rotate his hips properly and so actually sacrifices optimal velocity ie its all arm strength. I dont myself see this when he gets to set up and fire from a clean pocket, which is logically where you'd expect to notice it, but it may be true. 

Because he has bad hip differentiation, it’s his accuracy that take a hit.  He doesn’t drive the ball with anything but his ridiculous shoulder power, which just can’t get it done in the pros.   He drove his hip much better at the combine and afterwards, but again, no rush.   The knock on a guy that’s always gotten buy from his pure talent, is it’s hard for them to develop beyond what they are accustomed to, when placed into a pressurized situation.  It’s instinctgul and becomes cumulative once they start getting hit.  Allen is that guy, to me.

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, JohnC said:

As far as I'm concerned the Peterman issue is a marginal issue. Why put so much emphasis on such a periphery issue when there are core issues that need to be addressed such as the OL, receiver and LB units. Why so much distaste for a player when the options aren't perceptibly better? (You may disagree with that judgment?)  I am not bothered by Peterman's role as a backup or more likely backup to the backup. 

 

I think that some of the lingering hostility towards Peterman is a result of his replacement of Taylor as a starter in the Charger game. Some people can't let it go and continue to refer to that debacle as a basis for their view of Peterman. My interpretation from his starting is guided more from Taylor's failures as a qb than to Peterman's assets as a qb. The point is that the volatile Taylor issue has for many people bled into the perception of Peterman.  

 

When all is said and done I believe that Peterman will be on the roster when the season starts. He won't have a significant role but he will have a role on this team. That's how I see it and I'm not bothered by it. 

 

 

I said the EXACT same thing about Yates last year (and was right). More than half of the NFL teams only carry 2 QBs. The Bills have Thomas and may bring back Webb. Those guys have each started NFL games at QB. They can finish a game in an emergency (did last year). You can add a more capable player on the street on Monday. 

 

Peterman hasn't shown that he belongs on the roster. Better prospects, Garrett Grayson, haven’t made it to year 2 either. I don’t think Peterman is good and so far I am right. If you look back and agree that Peterman was the right option in LA we disagree (and I was right on that too). 

[CEN-CAL17]

Honestly everyone want to move up for Rosen etc, which im all for...

 

But yes, How is Peterman going to look?  AJ McCarron may turn out to be pretty dang good, plus we could Draft a Mason Rudolph @ #12, Maybe a plan like that the Bills fill they can win, if you keep all those top 100 picks this year and next and build around whoever.....

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

I still think with some work and preparation as well as a new OC  which we have some creativity and a lil luck Peterman will probably look fantastic in Preseason similarly to last year and make people wonder if McCarron is any better I see allot of similarities between the two QB's. He showed some potential and had some really bad luck and no time against SD. In the snow game he did the best he could and had allot to do with us winning in the end. Throwing him to the wolves against the Jags with the game on the line and he had to make a play it just didn't work out. The Jury is still out.