[Vague Title]You don't know squat

[thebandit27]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Ok.  Board if you have interviewed the QBs in the draft, please PM.  Let's find out.

 

Because if they haven't been in the room, then they don't know squat, right?

 

What's the purpose of this thread again?

 

Oh, right, to squash people's opinions unless they finish every statement with "IMO"

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

31 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Must be zero because you say it is, right?

 

And because none have, their opinion is invalid and should be squashed before they express it

 

They know NOTHING 

Relax Bandit.  

Based on our discussions I could believe you are “in the know” but until I personally get a PM from you with a scoop I too will have doubts. 

 

One of the big detractors to you and Kirby is the vehement arguments we have had over TT ergo based on the recent outcome I could say I was right and you were wrong.

 

 But let’s leave sleeping dogs lie.  

 

As I said Doc was only one that I recall reading with a good call.  

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Because if they haven't been in the room, then they don't know squat, right?

 

What's the purpose of this thread again?

 

Oh, right, to squash people's opinions unless they finish every statement with "IMO"

No it's not.  It's to point out we don't know a lot of things because we as fans are not in the position to know.  We don't have access to things the teams do and thus they are in a better position to make decisions.  It does not mean they'll be right.

 

It is all laid out in the OP.  You either want to argue because you don't like being told reality, you don't like me for whatever reason, or you just want to be deliberately obtuse.

 

You can't accept we don't have access to all the info.  Why I have no idea.

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Relax Bandit.  

Based on our discussions I could believe you are “in the know” but until I personally get a PM from you with a scoop I too will have doubts. 

 

One of the big detractors to you and Kirby is the vehement arguments we have had over TT.   

 

Also based on the recent outcome I could say I was right and you were wrong.  But let’s leave sleeping dogs lie.  

 

 

I have no idea what argument you're talking about, and I honestly have no need for recognition as an "insider"

 

The point I've been making should be crystal clear: people on this board know more than the OP thinks, and even if they don't, they don't have to end every sentence with "IMO" in order to proffer an opinion 

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

I brought up that advantage for the GMs, so I'm going to jump back into this conversation  as use it. 

 

Have they been interviewing QBs for the past two decades? The 3 teams in the AFC East have found nothing better than Chad Pennington. It would be tough to convince anyone that they know better.

 

It should be an advantage but is it? Don't know squat implies that someone knows more, I hope Beane does.

 

I pointed out specifically in my OP that having more data does not necessarily mean teams make the right decision every time.  Just that when people here think they know more than the teams, they likely don't because they have a ton more data.

[Augie]

Well, this took a turn for the silly! 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I have no idea what argument you're talking about, and I honestly have no need for recognition as an "insider"

 

The point I've been making should be crystal clear: people on this board know more than the OP thinks, and even if they don't, they don't have to end every sentence with "IMO" in order to proffer an opinion 

Based on what?  If they know more than I think, where do they get this knowledge that others do not have?

8 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said:

 

I am now 60 years old. I have watched the Bills at the old Rock Pile. I have had season tickets on & off. I love the Bills. It is called home-town love of your team, regardless of bad years (and some good). Entertainment & dedication. That is all I care about. If we get a top 4 quarterback or Falk in the 2nd round - who cares. I just want to watch good football.

Wasn't the Rockpile great?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I have no idea what argument you're talking about, and I honestly have no need for recognition as an "insider"

 

The point I've been making should be crystal clear: people on this board know more than the OP thinks, and even if they don't, they don't have to end every sentence with "IMO" in order to proffer an opinion 

We’ve never argued that I think TT was not good enough last season 16 and this past season in 17?

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

Well, this took a turn for the silly! 

Not really.  

 

If you know squat you need to prove it.   

 

If the experience of Dunkirk Don hasn’t taught people a lesson then the deserve to be hoodwinked.  

 

I called him a fraud on day 1 while it took people months to finally figure it out.  

[thebandit27]

9 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

We’ve never argued that I think TT was not good enough last season 16 and this past season in 17?

Not really.  

 

If you know squat you need to prove it.   

 

If the experience of Dunkirk Don hasn’t taught people a lesson then the deserve to be hoodwinked.  

 

I called him a fraud on day 1 while it took people months to finally figure it out.  

 

I've always been of the opinion that Tyrod wasn't good enough to win with long-term, but that he was easily the team's best option for both 2016 and 2017.

 

Where was I wrong?

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

Not really.  

 

If you know squat you need to prove it.   

 

If the experience of Dunkirk Don hasn’t taught people a lesson then the deserve to be hoodwinked.  

 

I called him a fraud on day 1 while it took people months to finally figure it out.  

 

You can pick and choose who you believe to be trustworthy. DD was obviously a clown, and I think most were there for the pure entertainment value.

 

There are others here who have some connection and on occasion may have some reliable info. You decide who want to believe, or even read. They have no obligation to prove anything to you, me, or anyone else. And, as pointed out, maybe that’s why some stuff is only shared via PM. 

 

IMO.   

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

If it's not the truth in fact, it is the correct philosophy.

 

It's not the only reason, but the primary reason for the decades of despair is the lack of good quarterback play.

If you want to say the correct philosophy is the old adage about " a bird in hand.." then yes. Watson / Mahomes were on the board and would have only cost the team a single draft pick. It's difficult to argue with that, and I would not. A few years down the road, it may well lead to yet another FO team's undoing. It's far too early though, to say either of those QBs was the way to go. If the Bills draft a QB ( and it's pretty clear that they will) it will take some time to play out before any verdict can be reached. We know too well the Bills woebegone ways at QB since the Kelly years. McDermott and Co had a chance to cash in and decided to roll the bones. We don't know if it's snake eyes or boxcars just yet. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

25 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

That can be said about every draft and each and every prospect.

 

Yes, I feel there are three franchise type qb’s in this draft. IMO they are Mayfield, Rosen and Darnold.

 

I do absolutely everything I can to get one of them.

Ok, fair enough.

 

I don't know what I would do. I would actually have to have done all the work myself to decide what to do. I believe the leaders of the past have done a bad job and that many of us fans could have out performed them.

 

I am just not ready to say that is true of the new guys yet. So I won't be too upset of we don't come up with one of those three.

 

The only thing I won't be able to stand is if they come up with a guy who can't throw and can't think fast enough. And then they spend 4 years telling me that he can. I can't do that any more. But besides that i can hold up pretty good I think.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I've always been of the opinion that Tyrod wasn't good enough to win with long-term, but that he was easily the team's best option for both 2016 and 2017.

 

Where was I wrong?

My mistake.   I misremembered 

[Figster]

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Ok, fair enough.

 

I don't know what I would do. I would actually have to have done all the work myself to decide what to do. I believe the leaders of the past have done a bad job and that many of us fans could have out performed them.

 

I am just not ready to say that is true of the new guys yet. So I won't be too upset of we don't come up with one of those three.

 

The only thing I won't be able to stand is if they come up with a guy who can't throw and can't think fast enough. And then they spend 4 years telling me that he can. I can't do that any more. But besides that i can hold up pretty good I think.

I have a sneaky suspicion Baker Mayfield is in Buffalo's cross hairs now Rosen might be out of reach.

[billsfan_34]

Dumbest post of the year maybe? I dont know, but it is right up there with a few of 420’s.

[BadLandsMeanie]

2 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Dumbest post of the year maybe? I dont know, but it is right up there with a few of 420’s.

No I think you are right. Yours is dumber.

[billsfan_34]

4 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

No I think you are right. Yours is dumber.

 

4 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

No I think you are right. Yours is dumber.

Mines not a post, it is a reply to a post- nice try dude! 

[gobills1212]

10 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

You as in the collective you.  Including me and everyone here.  This entire past day has been filled with posts claiming absolute knowledge over what they could have done, should have done and will do.

 

And none of us know squat.  Because we do not know what value the Bills have on the QBs in this draft.  And none of us have anywhere near the access to the data the Bills have on these guys.  Few of us have watched them live, we don't have the volumes of tape they have, we have not had access to their coaches, other players to see about them.  We haven't stood at a white board or in a film room and quizzed them about reads, progressions, etc.  None of us have any of that kind of data.

 

Know what else?  We don't have phone lines connected to every other team's front office.  So we have no idea what offers are flying around.  For all we know there's a deal right now with the Giants or Browns.  Or not.  Or with someone else.  Yet people here insist we cannot move up now and that we lost any chance at a QB.  Which is simply wrong.  Because we don't know.

 

i love the Tom Clancy books.  One of Jack Ryan's favorite phrases is : don't know means don't know.  We don't know. Beane does know.  He knows he has to decide if any of the four is a guy he has to have, or if he's OK with any of the top 6 guys.  He knows or will know if the draft capital he has acquired will allow him to get a guy he wants or if he has to sweeten the deal.  He knows if there's a MLB or DT that at 12 could solidify his D for years.  He knows because it's his job to know.

 

Does that mean a guaranteed certainty in his decision?  Of course not.  But he's in a helluva lot better position than we are to make the call.  When we woke up this morning everyone thought Beane was smart for getting a bunch of picks for this draft, for getting some decent FAs, clearing cap, etc.  And 24 hours later he's a bum because he didn't make a trade that might only get him the third QB in his board.

 

He knows.  We don't know squat.  It's fun to debate opinions, but in the end we don't know squat.

This is all kinda assumed imo. Unless it's a doozy,  it seems folks who think otherwise just have their posts burried and otherwise ignored. It's become the main waste of space that needs to be sorted through.. the quality takes and discussion seems to naturally rise above

[Foxx]

4 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

 

Mines not a post, it is a reply to a post- nice try dude! 

this is definately a 420 post.

[Figster]

3 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

 

Mines not a post, it is a reply to a post- nice try dude! 

 

1 minute ago, Foxx said:

this is definately a 420 post.

hey man,

 

we don't know squat so stick with the program

[BadLandsMeanie]

1 minute ago, Figster said:

 

hey man,

 

we don't know squat so stick with the program

For a moment there I thought you wrote stick with the penguin.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

You don’t know squat but she does.  

 

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

if you don't trust the process, you don't know squat.

 

 

you know, squat, like diddly squat

 

[billsredneck1]

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Ok, fair enough.

 

I don't know what I would do. I would actually have to have done all the work myself to decide what to do. I believe the leaders of the past have done a bad job and that many of us fans could have out performed them.

 

I am just not ready to say that is true of the new guys yet. So I won't be too upset of we don't come up with one of those three.

 

The only thing I won't be able to stand is if they come up with a guy who can't throw and can't think fast enough. And then they spend 4 years telling me that he can. I can't do that any more. But besides that i can hold up pretty good I think.

enter josh allen/lamar jackson.

 

i don't get all the gloom and doom about the jets move. screw them. they have no front 7 so who knows is they don't go there...or want barkley to give them some offense. everybody seems to think they're gonna steal our franchise qb.....i don't...and if they do take rosen, big whoop, i think he'll noodle under the scrutiny of the big apple and probably wouldn't want to come to buffalo anyways.

 

 

i believe we have a deal with the browns for no.4 depending on how things fall. if not, i just trust these guys....period.

[billsfan_34]

11 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

You don’t know squat but she does.  

 

 

And she needs some assistance 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

34 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

And she needs some assistance 

Are you volunteering? 

 

[billsfan_34]

40 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Are you volunteering? 

 

Absolutely!

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I've always been of the opinion that Tyrod wasn't good enough to win with long-term, but that he was easily the team's best option for both 2016 and 2017.

 

Where was I wrong?

 

Case Keenum was a better option in 2017

 

[transplantbillsfan]

Was this really necessary?

 

Yeah, most sane people on this board understand that we don't know what Beane is going to do or plans to do. But it's 6 weeks before the draft... what's left for everyone to do but speculate?

 

I get that you're frustrated because we have so long until the draft so we're inevitably going to be seeing a lot more of these prediction threads. And I feel bad for TBD old-timers because this is getting ridiculous in terms of thread after thread after thread being started... to the point where it's starting to look too much like BBMB 2.0.

 

But I also think people are antsy and need to vent in their apprehension. This might be the most important draft we've seen since 1983. We're clearly going after our QB for the next 10-15 years and everyone knows who they want or don't want. And we have a long time to wait to find out.

 

Just gotta deal with all the white noise, unfortunately.

[cba fan]

11 hours ago, Fetou said:

I'm generally inclined to agree. With a few exceptions:

 

1) I know Brian Orakpo is better than Aaron Maybin. I've always known, since I was born

2) I know Donte Whitner isn't worth the 8th pick overall

3) I know fan picks as a rule have been better than the player we've ended up with in 1st round for the last ~15 years.

 

Hopefully we now have a FO who has the ability to compete with drunk Bills fans.

Yes agree 100% Fetou. Fans picks by Bills fans are GOLD.

 

more EX:

2) everyone and his brother wanted Haloti Ngata over Whiffner backtakles Hitner.

Posters also on this board where banging the table for Russell Wilson and instead they trade up for TJ Graham.

 

And basically every CB Bills ever drafted in this era early no Bills fan wanted as they refused to give any of them a 2nd contract and let them walk for no return. Complete waste of picks. Easy way to get a Bills fan to jump through a table on fire?(and the genesis of the Bills mafia antics)Surprise wake them from a deep sleep and tell them Bills drafted a CB in 1st round again.

 

There are many more examples like this.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by cba fan

[3rdand12]

11 hours ago, terrytate said:

arrogance is earned, ignorance is not. 

 

I do believe fan mentality plays a role in this.  Look at what the browns did this year .  They had a parade for a 0-16 team that mocked them and what  they have become and that is a national embarrassment.  Do you believe that has played a role in them being by far and away the most aggressive team this offseason?  Maybe , maybe not but it didn't hurt.   I took out some frustration on your post and i apologize for it.  I just don't see how anyone can look at that jets move and feel any amount of optimism. 

 

Hello !
I always find some light to focus my emotions upon.
 Just because adversity hits Bills fans on a regular basis does not mean you wallow in futility as fans.

 Or Life.
If i did not have optimism ? what is the point ?
so I always always do.

 Go Bills !

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, 3rdand12 said:

Hello !
I always find some light to focus my emotions upon.
 Just because adversity hits Bills fans on a regular basis does not mean you wallow in futility as fans.

 Or Life.
If i did not have optimism ? what is the point ?
so I always always do.

 Go Bills !

I am temperamentally a melancholic, but I endorse this message.

[stinky finger]

11 hours ago, terrytate said:

There will always be people who want Beane fired, its the low hanging fruit.  he has done a great job   imo , i am just frustrated with the circumstances of the matter.  We desperately need a franchise qb , and there is no reasonable way of getting one anytime soon.

jeezus crise......are you crying?!?!

[Sky Diver]

In spite of all they know, almost half of 1st round picks flame out. 

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

You don’t know squat but she does.  

 

 

well this is a pleasant turn.

 I would certainly like to learn more about squat.

10 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I am temperamentally a melancholic, but I endorse this message.

Melancholic is nothing to be ashamed of Dear Dr.

Spent my  vacation there. Part of our vocabulary as Bills Fandom

 

ty

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

45 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

well this is a pleasant turn.

 I would certainly like to learn more about squat.

Melancholic is nothing to be ashamed of Dear Dr.

Spent my  vacation there. Part of our vocabulary as Bills Fandom

 

ty

It was a change from the bickering    

[Shaw66]

13 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

You as in the collective you.  Including me and everyone here.  This entire past day has been filled with posts claiming absolute knowledge over what they could have done, should have done and will do.

 

And none of us know squat.  Because we do not know what value the Bills have on the QBs in this draft.  And none of us have anywhere near the access to the data the Bills have on these guys.  Few of us have watched them live, we don't have the volumes of tape they have, we have not had access to their coaches, other players to see about them.  We haven't stood at a white board or in a film room and quizzed them about reads, progressions, etc.  None of us have any of that kind of data.

 

Know what else?  We don't have phone lines connected to every other team's front office.  So we have no idea what offers are flying around.  For all we know there's a deal right now with the Giants or Browns.  Or not.  Or with someone else.  Yet people here insist we cannot move up now and that we lost any chance at a QB.  Which is simply wrong.  Because we don't know.

 

i love the Tom Clancy books.  One of Jack Ryan's favorite phrases is : don't know means don't know.  We don't know. Beane does know.  He knows he has to decide if any of the four is a guy he has to have, or if he's OK with any of the top 6 guys.  He knows or will know if the draft capital he has acquired will allow him to get a guy he wants or if he has to sweeten the deal.  He knows if there's a MLB or DT that at 12 could solidify his D for years.  He knows because it's his job to know.

 

Does that mean a guaranteed certainty in his decision?  Of course not.  But he's in a helluva lot better position than we are to make the call.  When we woke up this morning everyone thought Beane was smart for getting a bunch of picks for this draft, for getting some decent FAs, clearing cap, etc.  And 24 hours later he's a bum because he didn't make a trade that might only get him the third QB in his board.

 

He knows.  We don't know squat.  It's fun to debate opinions, but in the end we don't know squat.

I agree.  

 

What goes on is so much more complicated than we understand, and what they evaluate is so much beyond what we do that what we think is just interesting opinions.   Uninformed opinions, compared to what the pro front office people actually do.  

 

Here's a point I've discussed nowhere, at least not recently.  (I've been away from the board for a day, so maybe it's somewhere).   Do you know how much dead cap space the Bills have?  $35 million, twice as much as the second worst dead cap space.  All the important components of that total are Dareus, Taylor and Glenn.  I find that fact interesting.

 

It means this really is a total rebuild.  McCoy, Hughes, Williams, Incognito is about all that are left.  A total rebuild takes time.  And it's done through the draft.   

 

What does that mean?   It means Beane's not going to be in a hurry to package a lot of picks to move up, because picks is all he has to rebuild with.   He can't sign anyone else in free agency without cutting or trading more of his core of players.   He COULD trade up, but that means that he's building in free agency next year.   He's said repeatedly he likes building through the draft, not free agency.  

 

And, of course, one has to ask whether, given the dead cap problem, it made sense to dump Dareus.  I'm sure their answer would be that they'd seen enough of Dareus to conclude that he probably never would conform to their program.   

 

McCarron?  I don't think McCarron has a future, but what do I know?   I don't know anything that Saban told Daboll about McCarron.  I don't know what the Bills' film review tells them about McCarron.   I just don't know.

 

I loved the title on a thread today, something about this being a good QB year because of the NUMBER of prospects, not because any are clearly great.   I don't know what the Bills think about these guys.   

 

So for me to get upset about the Bills trading up further or not trading up, etc. etc. doesn't make any sense to me.   All we can do and wait and see what the people who know a lot more that we know decide to do.  

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

[Happy]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

So for me to get upset about the Bills trading up further or not trading up, etc. etc. doesn't make any sense to me.   All we can do and wait and see what the people who know a lot more that we know decide to do.  

 

Yep, good post; as well as the OP.  The draft can't come soon enough.  I know we need something to talk about, but this QB class, draft maneuvering, trades, Beane should be fired, etc etc are getting beaten to the point where the horse is now unrecognizable.  Five more weeks and all our questions will be answered.

[SDS]

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