oldmanfan Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said: LMAO. Laughing MyAss Off. You would think with two kids ages 22 and 16 I'd know these things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: It is exactly the opposite. The fun of a board is debating opinion. There are too many here who claim knowledge they have none of, claiming facts that are not facts. Kind of like telling the whole of the board that they "don't know squat"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 5 hours ago, terrytate said: There will always be people who want Beane fired, its the low hanging fruit. he has done a great job imo , i am just frustrated with the circumstances of the matter. We desperately need a franchise qb , and there is no reasonable way of getting one anytime soon. Low hanging fruit? That fruit has been rotting on the ground. And I am not talking about Beane but am talking about people who will stoop to anything for some kind of twisted pleasure. I can only imagine how bad their lives have to be to do this. Hopefully, they are not beating the wife and kicking the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetou Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Kind of like telling the whole of the board that they "don't know squat"? I mean the vast majority of us are amateurs and rely to some extent on the media, who are mostly amateurs. I think that is his point. Edited March 18, 2018 by Fetou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: Kind of like telling the whole of the board that they "don't know squat"? Because we don't as explained in the OP. If you think have more data than the guys that do this for a living and know what teams are saying to each other you're flat out wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Nope Most folks simply have an opinion, and you seem to have an issue with that There are some that have connections in the organization right now As for me, well, I don't share anything I hear on the main board anymore--I'll send an occasional PM though And most of the folks banging the table for a QB, any QB, want to ridicule and drive away any opinion that does not match theirs. That's the issue many here have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Fetou said: I mean the vast majority of us are amateurs and rely to some extent on the media, who are mostly amateurs. I think that is his point. It's nothing more than misdirected anger. Take a small percentage of posters that want the GM fired and make it seem like a majority. In comparison to the previous regimes, the majority of folks here appear to know MORE than them, vis-a-vis believing that getting a franchise QB is a better idea than stocking talent around journeymen QBs 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Because we don't as explained in the OP. If you think have more data than the guys that do this for a living and know what teams are saying to each other you're flat out wrong. As I've said, and feel free to believe this or not, some folks here know a LOT more than you think 2 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: And most of the folks banging the table for a QB, any QB, want to ridicule and drive away any opinion that does not match theirs. That's the issue many here have. And what, exactly, is telling everyone that they don't know squat? That's not ridiculing people and attempting to drive away differing opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLandsMeanie Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 7 hours ago, oldmanfan said: You as in the collective you. Including me and everyone here. This entire past day has been filled with posts claiming absolute knowledge over what they could have done, should have done and will do. And none of us know squat. Because we do not know what value the Bills have on the QBs in this draft. And none of us have anywhere near the access to the data the Bills have on these guys. Few of us have watched them live, we don't have the volumes of tape they have, we have not had access to their coaches, other players to see about them. We haven't stood at a white board or in a film room and quizzed them about reads, progressions, etc. None of us have any of that kind of data. Know what else? We don't have phone lines connected to every other team's front office. So we have no idea what offers are flying around. For all we know there's a deal right now with the Giants or Browns. Or not. Or with someone else. Yet people here insist we cannot move up now and that we lost any chance at a QB. Which is simply wrong. Because we don't know. i love the Tom Clancy books. One of Jack Ryan's favorite phrases is : don't know means don't know. We don't know. Beane does know. He knows he has to decide if any of the four is a guy he has to have, or if he's OK with any of the top 6 guys. He knows or will know if the draft capital he has acquired will allow him to get a guy he wants or if he has to sweeten the deal. He knows if there's a MLB or DT that at 12 could solidify his D for years. He knows because it's his job to know. Does that mean a guaranteed certainty in his decision? Of course not. But he's in a helluva lot better position than we are to make the call. When we woke up this morning everyone thought Beane was smart for getting a bunch of picks for this draft, for getting some decent FAs, clearing cap, etc. And 24 hours later he's a bum because he didn't make a trade that might only get him the third QB in his board. He knows. We don't know squat. It's fun to debate opinions, but in the end we don't know squat. I am finding out that the more I learn and know about this upcoming draft, the more I know, that I don't know. I am in the I have no idea camp. I'm willing to wait and see. 4 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said: Sure, and I get Beane’s thinking. He has been without a franchise QB for 1 year. We fans have been without one for 22. I get where he is coming from but I get where I’m coming from more. It was all about getting that this off season. Anyone that says different is a fool. Hopefully he still will. Nobody wants a franchise QB more than me. Not even you. But the guy may not be there. I know you can never be sure of anybody. But I mean a guy worth trading everything to gamble on, might not be there. What then? You want them to do it anyway? Remember we have about 2 years worth of picks here. We can't do it again next year if we trade it all in now. I have read a lot and everyone has their favorite QB prospect in this draft. But I haven't seen anybody say there is a QB worth doing whatever you have to do, to get. The only one close is Darnold and he has the USC "mirage" QB onus on him. So do you want them to just trade it all and let the chips fall where they may, no matter what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 Just now, thebandit27 said: It's nothing more than misdirected anger. Take a small percentage of posters that want the GM fired and make it seem like a majority. In comparison to the previous regimes, the majority of folks here appear to know MORE than them, vis-a-vis believing that getting a franchise QB is a better idea than stocking talent around journeymen QBs As I've said, and feel free to believe this or not, some folks here know a LOT more than you think And what, exactly, is telling everyone that they don't know squat? That's not ridiculing people and attempting to drive away differing opinions? I am saying we all, including myself don't know squat compared to the front office. Go back and look at the OP. Do you think the people on this board have knowledge from extensive film study, from interviews with college coaches, from actually interviewing the players? Do people on this board have access to other team's offices to have conversations about trades? Do you actually think that? You claim there are people on the board that do? Who are they? It is not about opinion. It is about people categorically stating that we cannot now move up and get a QB. It is about people categorically stating Beane will get fired. It is about people claiming their views are gospel. I would love it actually if people expressed their opinions. But too many don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Just now, oldmanfan said: I am saying we all, including myself don't know squat compared to the front office. Go back and look at the OP. Do you think the people on this board have knowledge from extensive film study, from interviews with college coaches, from actually interviewing the players? Do people on this board have access to other team's offices to have conversations about trades? Do you actually think that? You claim there are people on the board that do? Who are they? It is not about opinion. It is about people categorically stating that we cannot now move up and get a QB. It is about people categorically stating Beane will get fired. It is about people claiming their views are gospel. I would love it actually if people expressed their opinions. But too many don't. You are taking a very small group (people that want the GM fired) and acting like it's a majority. As for the question about which folks have info from around the league etc, stick around; you may see for yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 I don't know as much as pro scouts and personnel guys because they have access to a huge treasure chest of information I don't. They can watch a guy in college practices, they can speak to coaches and teammatea and they can interview these kids and get them in on a whiteboard and thoroughly examine what they understand and can process. That does not make my opinion invalid or worthless. Far from it infact. And I will continue to give it honestly and openly. I don't have any agenda to pursue other than I enjoy watching college players and trying to grade their chances of success in the NFL. I will get some wrong and I will get some right - and I never hide my bad picks there waa a good thread on here some months back where we owned up to our misses. When I think the Bills have picked well in a draft I will say so - even if it ends up being wrong (I loved the Shaq pick). When I think they have made a mistake I will say so too - I hated the Peterman pick the moment it was made. Ultimately how do you get discourse if you don't want people giving their opinions and standing by them? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 Just now, thebandit27 said: You are taking a very small group (people that want the GM fired) and acting like it's a majority. As for the question about which folks have info from around the league etc, stick around; you may see for yourself So you are making a claim of fact you cannot substatiate. This is what I mean. And it's not just the firing. It is the constant we now can't get a QB. Do you want to discuss or cherry pick things to not provide context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuSeYiN_NYC Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 6 hours ago, Fetou said: I'm generally inclined to agree. With a few exceptions: 1) I know Brian Orakpo is better than Aaron Maybin. I've always known, since I was born 2) I know Donte Whitner isn't worth the 8th pick overall 3) I know fan picks as a rule have been better than the player we've ended up with in 1st round for the last ~15 years. Hopefully we now have a FO who has the ability to compete with drunk Bills fans. The question is, how drunk are we talking? If it's jumping on tables drunk, then they don't count. But dildo throwing drunks will be tough to surpass... Those are the best thinkers in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 Just now, GunnerBill said: I don't know as much as pro scouts and personnel guys because they have access to a huge treasure chest of information I don't. They can watch a guy in college practices, they can speak to coaches and teammatea and they can interview these kids and get them in on a whiteboard and thoroughly examine what they understand and can process. That does not make my opinion invalid or worthless. Far from it infact. And I will continue to give it honestly and openly. I don't have any agenda to pursue other than I enjoy watching college players and trying to grade their chances of success in the NFL. I will get some wrong and I will get some right - and I never hide my bad picks there waa a good thread on here some months back where we owned up to our misses. When I think the Bills have picked well in a draft I will say so - even if it ends up being wrong (I loved the Shaq pick). When I think they have made a mistake I will say so too - I hated the Peterman pick the moment it was made. Ultimately how do you get discourse if you don't want people giving their opinions and standing by them? I love opinion. I don't like people prentending their opinion is gospel and factual when it isn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: So you are making a claim of fact you cannot substatiate. This is what I mean. And it's not just the firing. It is the constant we now can't get a QB. Do you want to discuss or cherry pick things to not provide context? I'm not going to out specific people on this board that may not want me sharing the info simply because you can't fathom that it's true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I love opinion. I don't like people prentending their opinion is gospel and factual when it isn't. Some of that is just how people express things though. I am not going to say "in my opinion" every time I make a statement about this draft or anything else in fact. I think it os obvious it is my opinion because it is me saying it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I love opinion. I don't like people prentending their opinion is gospel and factual when it isn't. Sort of like saying that nobody on this board knows anything? Sounds pretty definitive, almost like that opinion should be taken as gospel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 Just now, thebandit27 said: I'm not going to out specific people on this board that may not want me sharing the info simply because you can't fathom that it's true Or is it because you can't back up your statement? I would appreciate input from guys that have either coached or played the game at the pro or college level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetou Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, HuSeYiN_NYC said: The question is, how drunk are we talking? If it's jumping on tables drunk, then they don't count. But dildo throwing drunks will be tough to surpass... Those are the best thinkers in this league. Someone has to look to move things forward. We can't just stay where we have always been and seek comfort. We must challenge ourselves to drink more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 Just now, thebandit27 said: Sort of like saying that nobody on this board knows anything? Sounds pretty definitive, almost like that opinion should be taken as gospel It is definitive that none of us here have the kind of access to data that the teams do. That is a given I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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