[Vague Title]You don't know squat

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

LMAO.  

 

Laughing MyAss Off. 

You would think with two kids ages 22 and 16 I'd know these things

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

It is exactly the opposite.  The fun of a board is debating opinion.  There are too many here who claim knowledge they have none of, claiming facts that are not facts.  

 

 

 

Kind of like telling the whole of the board that they "don't know squat"?

[RochesterRob]

5 hours ago, terrytate said:

There will always be people who want Beane fired, its the low hanging fruit.  he has done a great job   imo , i am just frustrated with the circumstances of the matter.  We desperately need a franchise qb , and there is no reasonable way of getting one anytime soon.

  Low hanging fruit?  That fruit has been rotting on the ground.  And I am not talking about Beane but am talking about people who will stoop to anything for some kind of twisted pleasure.  I can only imagine how bad their lives have to be to do this.  Hopefully, they are not beating the wife and kicking the dog.

[Fetou]

4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Kind of like telling the whole of the board that they "don't know squat"?

I mean the vast majority of us are amateurs and rely to some extent on the media, who are mostly amateurs. I think that is his point.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Fetou

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Kind of like telling the whole of the board that they "don't know squat"?

Because we don't as explained in the OP.  If you think have more data than the guys that do this for a living and know what teams are saying to each other you're flat out wrong.

[RochesterRob]

8 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Nope

 

Most folks simply have an opinion, and you seem to have an issue with that 

 

There are some that have connections in the organization right now 

 

As for me, well, I don't share anything I hear on the main board anymore--I'll send an occasional PM though 

  And most of the folks banging the table for a QB, any QB, want to ridicule and drive away any opinion that does not match theirs.  That's the issue many here have.  

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, Fetou said:

I mean the vast majority of us are amateurs and rely to some extent on the media, who are mostly amateurs. I think that is his point.

 

It's nothing more than misdirected anger.

 

Take a small percentage of posters that want the GM fired and make it seem like a majority.

 

In comparison to the previous regimes, the majority of folks here appear to know MORE than them, vis-a-vis believing that getting a franchise QB is a better idea than stocking talent around journeymen QBs 

 

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Because we don't as explained in the OP.  If you think have more data than the guys that do this for a living and know what teams are saying to each other you're flat out wrong.

 

As I've said, and feel free to believe this or not, some folks here know a LOT more than you think 

 

2 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  And most of the folks banging the table for a QB, any QB, want to ridicule and drive away any opinion that does not match theirs.  That's the issue many here have.  

 

And what, exactly, is telling everyone that they don't know squat? That's not ridiculing people and attempting to drive away differing opinions?

[BadLandsMeanie]

7 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

You as in the collective you.  Including me and everyone here.  This entire past day has been filled with posts claiming absolute knowledge over what they could have done, should have done and will do.

 

And none of us know squat.  Because we do not know what value the Bills have on the QBs in this draft.  And none of us have anywhere near the access to the data the Bills have on these guys.  Few of us have watched them live, we don't have the volumes of tape they have, we have not had access to their coaches, other players to see about them.  We haven't stood at a white board or in a film room and quizzed them about reads, progressions, etc.  None of us have any of that kind of data.

 

Know what else?  We don't have phone lines connected to every other team's front office.  So we have no idea what offers are flying around.  For all we know there's a deal right now with the Giants or Browns.  Or not.  Or with someone else.  Yet people here insist we cannot move up now and that we lost any chance at a QB.  Which is simply wrong.  Because we don't know.

 

i love the Tom Clancy books.  One of Jack Ryan's favorite phrases is : don't know means don't know.  We don't know. Beane does know.  He knows he has to decide if any of the four is a guy he has to have, or if he's OK with any of the top 6 guys.  He knows or will know if the draft capital he has acquired will allow him to get a guy he wants or if he has to sweeten the deal.  He knows if there's a MLB or DT that at 12 could solidify his D for years.  He knows because it's his job to know.

 

Does that mean a guaranteed certainty in his decision?  Of course not.  But he's in a helluva lot better position than we are to make the call.  When we woke up this morning everyone thought Beane was smart for getting a bunch of picks for this draft, for getting some decent FAs, clearing cap, etc.  And 24 hours later he's a bum because he didn't make a trade that might only get him the third QB in his board.

 

He knows.  We don't know squat.  It's fun to debate opinions, but in the end we don't know squat.

 

I am finding out that the more I learn and know about this upcoming draft, the more I know, that I don't know.

 

I am in the I have no idea camp. I'm willing to wait and see.

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

Sure, and I get Beane’s thinking. He has been without a franchise QB for 1 year.

 

We fans have been without one for 22.

 

I get where he is coming from but I get where I’m coming from more.

 

It was all about getting that this off season. Anyone that says different is a fool.

 

Hopefully he still will.

 

Nobody wants a franchise QB more than me. Not even you.

 

But the guy may not be there.  I know you can never be sure of anybody. But I mean a guy worth trading everything to gamble on, might not be there.

 

What then? You want them to do it anyway? Remember we have about 2 years worth of picks here. We can't do it again next year if we trade it all in now.

 

I have read a lot and everyone has their favorite QB prospect in this draft. But I haven't seen anybody say there is a QB worth doing whatever you have to do, to get.

The only one close is Darnold and he has the USC "mirage" QB onus on him.

 

So do you want them to just trade it all and let the chips fall where they may, no matter what?

 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

 

It's nothing more than misdirected anger.

 

Take a small percentage of posters that want the GM fired and make it seem like a majority.

 

In comparison to the previous regimes, the majority of folks here appear to know MORE than them, vis-a-vis believing that getting a franchise QB is a better idea than stocking talent around journeymen QBs 

 

 

As I've said, and feel free to believe this or not, some folks here know a LOT more than you think 

 

 

And what, exactly, is telling everyone that they don't know squat? That's not ridiculing people and attempting to drive away differing opinions?

I am saying we all, including myself don't know squat compared to the front office.  Go back and look at the OP.  Do you think the people on this board have knowledge from extensive film study, from interviews with college coaches, from actually interviewing the players?  Do people on this board have access to other team's offices to have conversations about trades?

 

Do you actually think that?  You claim there are people on the board that do?  Who are they?

 

It is not about opinion.  It is about people categorically stating that we cannot now move up and get a QB.  It is about people categorically stating Beane will get fired.  It is about people claiming their views are gospel.  I would love it actually if people expressed their opinions.  But too many don't.  

[thebandit27]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I am saying we all, including myself don't know squat compared to the front office.  Go back and look at the OP.  Do you think the people on this board have knowledge from extensive film study, from interviews with college coaches, from actually interviewing the players?  Do people on this board have access to other team's offices to have conversations about trades?

 

Do you actually think that?  You claim there are people on the board that do?  Who are they?

 

It is not about opinion.  It is about people categorically stating that we cannot now move up and get a QB.  It is about people categorically stating Beane will get fired.  It is about people claiming their views are gospel.  I would love it actually if people expressed their opinions.  But too many don't.  

 

You are taking a very small group (people that want the GM fired) and acting like it's a majority.

 

As for the question about which folks have info from around the league etc, stick around; you may see for yourself 

[GunnerBill]

I don't know as much as pro scouts and personnel guys because they have access to a huge treasure chest of information I don't. They can watch a guy in college practices, they can speak to coaches and teammatea and they can interview these kids and get them in on a whiteboard and thoroughly examine what they understand and can process. 

 

That does not make my opinion invalid or worthless. Far from it infact. And I will continue to give it honestly and openly. I don't have any agenda to pursue other than I enjoy watching college players and trying to grade their chances of success in the NFL. I will get some wrong and I will get some right - and I never hide my bad picks there waa a good thread on here some months back where we owned up to our misses. When I think the Bills have picked well in a draft I will say so - even if it ends up being wrong (I loved the Shaq pick). When I think they have made a mistake I will say so too - I hated the Peterman pick the moment it was made. 

 

Ultimately how do you get discourse if you don't want people giving their opinions and standing by them? 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

 

You are taking a very small group (people that want the GM fired) and acting like it's a majority.

 

As for the question about which folks have info from around the league etc, stick around; you may see for yourself 

So you are making a claim of fact you cannot substatiate.  This is what I mean.  

 

And it's not just the firing.  It is the constant we now can't get a QB.  Do you want to discuss or cherry pick things to not provide context?

[HuSeYiN_NYC]

6 hours ago, Fetou said:

I'm generally inclined to agree. With a few exceptions:

 

1) I know Brian Orakpo is better than Aaron Maybin. I've always known, since I was born

2) I know Donte Whitner isn't worth the 8th pick overall

3) I know fan picks as a rule have been better than the player we've ended up with in 1st round for the last ~15 years.

 

Hopefully we now have a FO who has the ability to compete with drunk Bills fans.

 

The question is, how drunk are we talking?

 

If it's jumping on tables drunk, then they don't count.

 

But dildo throwing drunks will be tough to surpass... Those are the best thinkers in this league.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

I don't know as much as pro scouts and personnel guys because they have access to a huge treasure chest of information I don't. They can watch a guy in college practices, they can speak to coaches and teammatea and they can interview these kids and get them in on a whiteboard and thoroughly examine what they understand and can process. 

 

That does not make my opinion invalid or worthless. Far from it infact. And I will continue to give it honestly and openly. I don't have any agenda to pursue other than I enjoy watching college players and trying to grade their chances of success in the NFL. I will get some wrong and I will get some right - and I never hide my bad picks there waa a good thread on here some months back where we owned up to our misses. When I think the Bills have picked well in a draft I will say so - even if it ends up being wrong (I loved the Shaq pick). When I think they have made a mistake I will say so too - I hated the Peterman pick the moment it was made. 

 

Ultimately how do you get discourse if you don't want people giving their opinions and standing by them? 

I love opinion.  I don't like people prentending their opinion is gospel and factual when it isn't.

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

So you are making a claim of fact you cannot substatiate.  This is what I mean.  

 

And it's not just the firing.  It is the constant we now can't get a QB.  Do you want to discuss or cherry pick things to not provide context?

 

I'm not going to out specific people on this board that may not want me sharing the info simply because you can't fathom that it's true

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I love opinion.  I don't like people prentending their opinion is gospel and factual when it isn't.

 

Some of that is just how people express things though. I am not going to say "in my opinion" every time I make a statement about this draft or anything else in fact. I think it os obvious it is my opinion because it is me saying it!

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I love opinion.  I don't like people prentending their opinion is gospel and factual when it isn't.

 

Sort of like saying that nobody on this board knows anything?

 

Sounds pretty definitive, almost like that opinion should be taken as gospel 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

 

I'm not going to out specific people on this board that may not want me sharing the info simply because you can't fathom that it's true

Or is it because you can't back up your statement?

 

I would appreciate input from guys that have either coached or played the game at the pro or college level.

[Fetou]

5 minutes ago, HuSeYiN_NYC said:

 

The question is, how drunk are we talking?

 

If it's jumping on tables drunk, then they don't count.

 

But dildo throwing drunks will be tough to surpass... Those are the best thinkers in this league.

Someone has to look to move things forward. We can't just stay where we have always been and seek comfort. We must challenge ourselves to drink more.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

 

Sort of like saying that nobody on this board knows anything?

 

Sounds pretty definitive, almost like that opinion should be taken as gospel 

It is definitive that none of us here have the kind of access to data that the teams do.  That is a given I would think.

[BadLandsMeanie]

7 minutes ago, HuSeYiN_NYC said:

 

 

But dildo throwing drunks will be tough to surpass... Those are the best thinkers in this league.

 

Now you brought up a topic that makes me angry even now.

 

That dildo throw was perfectly targeted and perfectly timed. And instead of bringing that guy in for a look the idiots banned him from the stadium.

 

 

[Figster]

6 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....I think you're missing his point......MB is made up of opinions......at the same time, some of those "opinions" are driven home 24/7 as being gospel and diminishing those of others....look at the obnoxious "SHOULD BEANE BE FIRED" thread as a precise example....McBeane and his staff of 17+ scouts, many of which are high profile NFL personnel execs, probably at an annual payroll of $3.5 mil know their craft.....perfect?...hardly......subject to mistakes?...of course....draft and FA will never be an exact science...so some little keyboard clown starts fecal material about firing him just to be obnoxious and take away the spirit of LEGITIMATE football discussion...seriously?......because he's far smarter than the combined 17?......

McD / Beane regime is paying very particular attention to the character of every player on the roster and in all likelihood will pay even closer attention to the QB they expect to lead Buffalo long term into the future.

 

I'm not sure how that translates into this years draft class, but it probably narrows the possibilities to one or two players in my humble opinion. 

Edited March 18, 2018 by Figster

[Foxx]

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I love opinion.  I don't like people prentending their opinion is gospel and factual when it isn't.

indy,

some peeps are not exactly articulate when expressing themselves, i think you know this. from my perch, i see a only few who express their opinion as omnipotent.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Foxx

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Or is it because you can't back up your statement?

 

I would appreciate input from guys that have either coached or played the game at the pro or college level.

This board has a lot of plugged in people and Bandit is one of them. He has PMed numerous things that he has been told that no one was reporting. A lot of the “inside info” takes place through PM. Usually that information isn’t supposed to be shared. Sometimes it is and ends up on the main board.

 

There are a lot of people here that have contacts in and around the league. Not everything those people say is inside info either. 98% of the time it is their opinion. 

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Or is it because you can't back up your statement?

 

I would appreciate input from guys that have either coached or played the game at the pro or college level.

 

It's because those folks should have discretion over whether or not you know who they are

 

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

It is definitive that none of us here have the kind of access to data that the teams do.  That is a given I would think.

 

Well you're dug in on that, so it must be true. Not possible that you're wrong 

[HuSeYiN_NYC]

2 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

 

Now you brought up a topic that makes me angry even now.

 

That dildo throw was perfectly targeted and perfectly timed. And instead of bringing that guy in for a look the idiots banned him from the stadium.

 

 

 

I'm glad you noticed that... there was a 50/50 chance that the smile on the dildo could have been facing the turf but it was perfectly executed. 

[GunnerBill]

I will also say this...  Brandon Beane seems to me to understand the surest way to get fired as a GM in this league is to fail to find a Franchise Quarterback. If he doesn't find one in this draft and the Bills go above .500 again with AJ at the helm he is still in a comfortable spot. If he doesn't and the Bills go say 6-10 with their backup level QB then you better believe the pressure will be on him to find one in 2019 and if he fails again he will be out of a job. 

 

That is the NFL. He understands that, I am sure he does... I am extremely doubtful he leaves round 1 this year without his Quarterback. 

[billsredneck1]

7 hours ago, Fetou said:

I'm generally inclined to agree. With a few exceptions:

 

1) I know Brian Orakpo is better than Aaron Maybin. I've always known, since I was born

2) I know Donte Whitner isn't worth the 8th pick overall

3) I know fan picks as a rule have been better than the player we've ended up with in 1st round for the last ~15 years.

 

Hopefully we now have a FO who has the ability to compete with drunk Bills fans.

lol...the drunk bills fans were killing it until these guys came to town. made the old staff and coaches look lost. compared to them(brandon and whaley), most of us looked like vegas bookies.

 

however this is the most exciting ,nail biting off season i can ever remember. i have been a fan since 73 and the sb years were great, but now i'm retired and i get to listen and read and soak in every little bills detail. i seriously need help i am so addicted.

Edited March 18, 2018 by billsredneck1

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

It's because those folks should have discretion over whether or not you know who they are

 

 

Well you're dug in on that, so it must be true. Not possible that you're wrong 

What percentage of folks on this board have interviewed the QBs in this draft?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, Figster said:

McD / Beane regime is paying very particular attention to the character of every player on the roster and will pay even closer attention to the QB they expect to lead Buffalo long term into the future.

 

I'm not sure how that translates into this years draft class, but it probably narrows the possibilities in my humble opinion. 

 

...DEAD ON as usual bud.....and I agree with their cumulative approach.....I perhaps preemptively posted that Mayfield was being trailed by a PI hired by some NFL club....first thought was because of media comparatives to Manziel...but many rightfully so posted that "I'd bet many clubs do it today to play it safe".....cannot argue that at all...translate it into the real world versus the megamillions NFL fantasyland.....I have interviewed many candidates in my 42 year business career and my initial impression vastly differed after further investigation...

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

What percentage of folks on this board have interviewed the QBs in this draft?

 

Must be zero because you say it is, right?

 

And because none have, their opinion is invalid and should be squashed before they express it

 

They know NOTHING 

[Lurker]

7 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

we don't know squat.

 

Thanks for taking the time to clear that up.....

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Must be zero because you say it is, right?

 

And because none have, their opinion is invalid and should be squashed before they express it

 

They know NOTHING 

 

...LMAO...my real name is SQUAT....and 'yall know nothing about me....so we're even, right?.....Jesus kids, how many TBD stroke patients do you thins Roswell can treat at once?....lighten up....

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Must be zero because you say it is, right?

 

And because none have, their opinion is invalid and should be squashed before they express it

 

They know NOTHING 

All right.  Let's just stop and try again.  And read this time.

 

it is not about opinion, it is about fact.  If people want to express their opinion fine.  But when they make definitive statements about things when it is clear they cannot be made that is different.

 

How many people here have actually interviewed the QBs?  I would say it's pretty close to zero.  Does that deny them an opinion?  No.  Does it mean the teams have more information to make decisions?  Yes.  Which was the point of the OP.

 

[Augie]

6 hours ago, Putin said:

How do you know we already failed ? 

I think it’s a little premature to make any kind of judgment ( don’t you think ?)since the draft is still over a month away , 

im a little disappointed as well but let’s wait and see what happens , 

 

Don’t you get it? Terry knows the future, and we don’t. We are taking solace in willful ignorance, when in fact there is no way for us to know what the FO knows. Are we ignorant? Sure. No shame there. None of us know what the FO knows, or how the draft will turn out. Except apparently Terry... 

 

I am also disappointed, but this may not affect their plan at all. This could be devastating, or a non-event. We DO NOT KNOW. Nor should we. All we can do is move forward and pray for the best. 

 

EDIT: OK, maybe some people here have a clue, but the masses are in the dark. 

Edited March 18, 2018 by Augie

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

All right.  Let's just stop and try again.  And read this time.

 

it is not about opinion, it is about fact.  If people want to express their opinion fine.  But when they make definitive statements about things when it is clear they cannot be made that is different.

 

How many people here have actually interviewed the QBs?  I would say it's pretty close to zero.  Does that deny them an opinion?  No.  Does it mean the teams have more information to make decisions?  Yes.  Which was the point of the OP.

 

 

Then the OP had zero point to begin with, since anyone that doesn't have all of the exact same information as 32 GMs shouldn't draw conclusions 

 

Or maybe your entire OP should've been distilled down to "use IMO more often"

 

but either way, you probably should've made sure to tell everyone that they don't know squat IN YOUR OPINION, because you don't have all of the information on every person on this board, so declaring that as fact shouldn't happen 

 

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Then the OP had zero point to begin with, since anyone that doesn't have all of the exact same information as 32 GMs shouldn't draw conclusions 

 

Or maybe your entire OP should've been distilled down to "use IMO more often"

 

but either way, you probably should've made sure to tell everyone that they don't know squat IN YOUR OPINION, because you don't have all of the information on every person on this board, so declaring that as fact shouldn't happen 

 

Ok.  Board if you have interviewed the QBs in the draft, please PM.  Let's find out.

[Beast]

48 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

 

I am finding out that the more I learn and know about this upcoming draft, the more I know, that I don't know.

 

I am in the I have no idea camp. I'm willing to wait and see.

 

 

 

 

 

Nobody wants a franchise QB more than me. Not even you.

 

But the guy may not be there.  I know you can never be sure of anybody. But I mean a guy worth trading everything to gamble on, might not be there.

 

What then? You want them to do it anyway? Remember we have about 2 years worth of picks here. We can't do it again next year if we trade it all in now.

 

I have read a lot and everyone has their favorite QB prospect in this draft. But I haven't seen anybody say there is a QB worth doing whatever you have to do, to get.

The only one close is Darnold and he has the USC "mirage" QB onus on him.

 

So do you want them to just trade it all and let the chips fall where they may, no matter what?

 

 

That can be said about every draft and each and every prospect.

 

Yes, I feel there are three franchise type qb’s in this draft. IMO they are Mayfield, Rosen and Darnold.

 

I do absolutely everything I can to get one of them.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Binghamton Beast

[CommonCents]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Ok.  Board if you have interviewed the QBs in the draft, please PM.  Let's find out.

I brought up that advantage for the GMs, so I'm going to jump back into this conversation  as use it. 

 

Have they been interviewing QBs for the past two decades? The 3 teams in the AFC East have found nothing better than Chad Pennington. It would be tough to convince anyone that they know better.

 

It should be an advantage but is it? Don't know squat implies that someone knows more, I hope Beane does.

 

[I'm Spartacus]

5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I would estimate there are very few people on this board that have been a fan of this team longer than me.  You would have to have been sitting at the Rockpile in 1960 to have been a fan for as long.  I appreciate the frustration as much if not more so than many here.  But I will say again:  don't know means don't know.  Beane has a lot of cards he can play or not play.  It comes down to their evaluation they make on these guys.

 

 

I am now 60 years old. I have watched the Bills at the old Rock Pile. I have had season tickets on & off. I love the Bills. It is called home-town love of your team, regardless of bad years (and some good). Entertainment & dedication. That is all I care about. If we get a top 4 quarterback or Falk in the 2nd round - who cares. I just want to watch good football.