[Vague Title]You don't know squat

[oldmanfan]

You as in the collective you.  Including me and everyone here.  This entire past day has been filled with posts claiming absolute knowledge over what they could have done, should have done and will do.

 

And none of us know squat.  Because we do not know what value the Bills have on the QBs in this draft.  And none of us have anywhere near the access to the data the Bills have on these guys.  Few of us have watched them live, we don't have the volumes of tape they have, we have not had access to their coaches, other players to see about them.  We haven't stood at a white board or in a film room and quizzed them about reads, progressions, etc.  None of us have any of that kind of data.

 

Know what else?  We don't have phone lines connected to every other team's front office.  So we have no idea what offers are flying around.  For all we know there's a deal right now with the Giants or Browns.  Or not.  Or with someone else.  Yet people here insist we cannot move up now and that we lost any chance at a QB.  Which is simply wrong.  Because we don't know.

 

i love the Tom Clancy books.  One of Jack Ryan's favorite phrases is : don't know means don't know.  We don't know. Beane does know.  He knows he has to decide if any of the four is a guy he has to have, or if he's OK with any of the top 6 guys.  He knows or will know if the draft capital he has acquired will allow him to get a guy he wants or if he has to sweeten the deal.  He knows if there's a MLB or DT that at 12 could solidify his D for years.  He knows because it's his job to know.

 

Does that mean a guaranteed certainty in his decision?  Of course not.  But he's in a helluva lot better position than we are to make the call.  When we woke up this morning everyone thought Beane was smart for getting a bunch of picks for this draft, for getting some decent FAs, clearing cap, etc.  And 24 hours later he's a bum because he didn't make a trade that might only get him the third QB in his board.

 

He knows.  We don't know squat.  It's fun to debate opinions, but in the end we don't know squat.

[terrytate]

No offense but this post screams "taking solace in willful ignorance".  

 

This is just a message board for entertainment purposes, but this is stance you have taken is problematic for me.  1. You are giving people hope where there is no hope. 2. It is this type of fan mentality which allows for incompetence to happen year after year.  3. You are trying to portrait a rosy picture  after the jets trade, and that is a facade of authenticity. 

 

I truly hate being this negative and certainly try to avoid that type of negativity in every day life, but I can't  let you mislead people.  Beane has done a phenomenal job, aquiring picks, shedding cap space, making the most of the assets he has.  However to think that all of this was done with not a qb in mind is wrong.  It is not  a coincidence in one of the most loaded qb drafts ever we have the 2nd most draft capital of any team.  We loaded up to get a top guy and failed. Simple as that.

[sherpa]

He also knows what the Colts wanted for their #3 pick, and decided it wasn't worth the cost, unless someone thinks the Colts didn't leverage us against the Jets.

 

[Commish]

2 minutes ago, terrytate said:

No offense but this post screams "taking solace in willful ignorance".  

 

This is just a message board for entertainment purposes, but this is stance you have taken is problematic for me.  1. You are giving people hope where there is no hope. 2. It is this type of fan mentality which allows for incompetence to happen year after year.  3. You are trying to portrait a rosy picture  after the jets trade, and that is a facade of authenticity. 

 

I truly hate being this negative and certainly try to avoid that type of negativity in every day life, but I can't  let you mislead people.  Beane has done a phenomenal job, aquiring picks, shedding cap space, making the most of the assets he has.  However to think that all of this was done with not a qb in mind is wrong.  It is not  a coincidence in one of the most loaded qb drafts ever we have the 2nd most draft capital of any team.  We loaded up to get a top guy and failed. Simple as that.

 We also entered the draft in the "unfortunate'' and unexpected position of having made the play-offs, hence pick #22 - only so much you can do with the cards you're dealt and the math invovled. That said, I think a move up is still a possibility.

[terrytate]

Just now, Roch-A-Bill said:

 We also entered the draft in the "unfortunate'' and unexpected position of having made the play-offs, hence pick #22 - only so much you can do with the cards you're dealt and the math invovled. That said, I think a move up is still a possibility.

 

RIght.  And i don't want that post to come off as me bashing Beane.  We got dealt with some cards, made a great move to improve our cards, and stils  could not seal the deal.  I  think moving up to 4 is possible, but of the teams who are also in position to move to 4 we rank 3rd in terms of attractiveness.  We would have to leapfrog to 6.  If we got to 6 we have a chance.  

[Fetou]

I'm generally inclined to agree. With a few exceptions:

 

1) I know Brian Orakpo is better than Aaron Maybin. I've always known, since I was born

2) I know Donte Whitner isn't worth the 8th pick overall

3) I know fan picks as a rule have been better than the player we've ended up with in 1st round for the last ~15 years.

 

Hopefully we now have a FO who has the ability to compete with drunk Bills fans.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Fetou

[oldmanfan]

23 minutes ago, terrytate said:

No offense but this post screams "taking solace in willful ignorance".  

 

This is just a message board for entertainment purposes, but this is stance you have taken is problematic for me.  1. You are giving people hope where there is no hope. 2. It is this type of fan mentality which allows for incompetence to happen year after year.  3. You are trying to portrait a rosy picture  after the jets trade, and that is a facade of authenticity. 

 

I truly hate being this negative and certainly try to avoid that type of negativity in every day life, but I can't  let you mislead people.  Beane has done a phenomenal job, aquiring picks, shedding cap space, making the most of the assets he has.  However to think that all of this was done with not a qb in mind is wrong.  It is not  a coincidence in one of the most loaded qb drafts ever we have the 2nd most draft capital of any team.  We loaded up to get a top guy and failed. Simple as that.

This is the type of fan mentality which allows for incompetence to happen year after year.  Excuse me, but exactly ewho the hell do you think you are?  Sorry to be so bluntly, but do you honestly believe that your mentality has anything to do with the success or failure of an NFL team?

 

you claim my take is solace in willful ignorance?  Yours is misplaced arrogance and self-aggrandizement.

34 minutes ago, terrytate said:

No offense but this post screams "taking solace in willful ignorance".  

 

This is just a message board for entertainment purposes, but this is stance you have taken is problematic for me.  1. You are giving people hope where there is no hope. 2. It is this type of fan mentality which allows for incompetence to happen year after year.  3. You are trying to portrait a rosy picture  after the jets trade, and that is a facade of authenticity. 

 

I truly hate being this negative and certainly try to avoid that type of negativity in every day life, but I can't  let you mislead people.  Beane has done a phenomenal job, aquiring picks, shedding cap space, making the most of the assets he has.  However to think that all of this was done with not a qb in mind is wrong.  It is not  a coincidence in one of the most loaded qb drafts ever we have the 2nd most draft capital of any team.  We loaded up to get a top guy and failed. Simple as that.

In a calmer mode, you have no idea if they failed because the draft has not happened yet.  You do not know.  Don't know means don't know

[terrytate]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

This is the type of fan mentality which allows for incompetence to happen year after year.  Excuse me, but exactly ewho the hell do you think you are?  Sorry to be so bluntly, but do you honestly believe that your mentality has anything to do with the success or failure of an NFL team?

 

you claim my take is solace in willful ignorance?  Yours is misplaced arrogance and self-aggrandizement.

arrogance is earned, ignorance is not. 

 

I do believe fan mentality plays a role in this.  Look at what the browns did this year .  They had a parade for a 0-16 team that mocked them and what  they have become and that is a national embarrassment.  Do you believe that has played a role in them being by far and away the most aggressive team this offseason?  Maybe , maybe not but it didn't hurt.   I took out some frustration on your post and i apologize for it.  I just don't see how anyone can look at that jets move and feel any amount of optimism. 

 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, terrytate said:

arrogance is earned, ignorance is not. 

 

I do believe fan mentality plays a role in this.  Look at what the browns did this year .  They had a parade for a 0-16 team that mocked them and what  they have become and that is a national embarrassment.  Do you believe that has played a role in them being by far and away the most aggressive team this offseason?  Maybe , maybe not but it didn't hurt.   I took out some frustration on your post and i apologize for it.  I just don't see how anyone can look at that jets move and feel any amount of optimism. 

 

I don't believe their parade had a thing to do with their approach.  For the past couple years they have been compiling picks and this year Dorsey was brought in to use them.

 

I don't feel optimism or pessimism because We. Do. Not. Know.  Let's see how the draft plays out.  How they play in camp.  I have no doubt they are drafting a QB; it's just which one and where in the draft.

 

I would remind you around this time last year it was doom and gloom.  And they made the playoffs.  Don't know means don't know

5 minutes ago, terrytate said:

arrogance is earned, ignorance is not. 

 

I do believe fan mentality plays a role in this.  Look at what the browns did this year .  They had a parade for a 0-16 team that mocked them and what  they have become and that is a national embarrassment.  Do you believe that has played a role in them being by far and away the most aggressive team this offseason?  Maybe , maybe not but it didn't hurt.   I took out some frustration on your post and i apologize for it.  I just don't see how anyone can look at that jets move and feel any amount of optimism. 

 

And I too apologize for being too harsh

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 minutes ago, terrytate said:

arrogance is earned, ignorance is not. 

 

I do believe fan mentality plays a role in this.  Look at what the browns did this year .  They had a parade for a 0-16 team that mocked them and what  they have become and that is a national embarrassment.  Do you believe that has played a role in them being by far and away the most aggressive team this offseason?  Maybe , maybe not but it didn't hurt.   I took out some frustration on your post and i apologize for it.  I just don't see how anyone can look at that jets move and feel any amount of optimism. 

 

 

....I think you're missing his point......MB is made up of opinions......at the same time, some of those "opinions" are driven home 24/7 as being gospel and diminishing those of others....look at the obnoxious "SHOULD BEANE BE FIRED" thread as a precise example....McBeane and his staff of 17+ scouts, many of which are high profile NFL personnel execs, probably at an annual payroll of $3.5 mil know their craft.....perfect?...hardly......subject to mistakes?...of course....draft and FA will never be an exact science...so some little keyboard clown starts fecal material about firing him just to be obnoxious and take away the spirit of LEGITIMATE football discussion...seriously?......because he's far smarter than the combined 17?......

[terrytate]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....I think you're missing his point......MB is made up of opinions......at the same time, some of those "opinions" are driven home 24/7 as being gospel and diminishing those of others....look at the obnoxious "SHOULD BEANE BE FIRED" thread as a precise example....McBeane and his staff of 17+ scouts, many of which are high profile NFL personnel execs, probably at an annual payroll of $3.5 mil know their craft.....perfect?...hardly......subject to mistakes?...of course....draft and FA will never be an exact science...so some little keyboard clown starts fecal material about firing him just to be obnoxious and take away the spirit of LEGITIMATE football discussion...seriously?......because he's far smarter than the combined 17?......

There will always be people who want Beane fired, its the low hanging fruit.  he has done a great job   imo , i am just frustrated with the circumstances of the matter.  We desperately need a franchise qb , and there is no reasonable way of getting one anytime soon.

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, terrytate said:

There will always be people who want Beane fired, its the low hanging fruit.  he has done a great job   imo , i am just frustrated with the circumstances of the matter.  We desperately need a franchise qb , and there is no reasonable way of getting one anytime soon.

Terry, please just acknowledge you have no way of knowing that

[Pbomb]

58 minutes ago, terrytate said:

No offense but this post screams "taking solace in willful ignorance".  

 

This is just a message board for entertainment purposes, but this is stance you have taken is problematic for me.  1. You are giving people hope where there is no hope. 2. It is this type of fan mentality which allows for incompetence to happen year after year.  3. You are trying to portrait a rosy picture  after the jets trade, and that is a facade of authenticity. 

 

I truly hate being this negative and certainly try to avoid that type of negativity in every day life, but I can't  let you mislead people.  Beane has done a phenomenal job, aquiring picks, shedding cap space, making the most of the assets he has.  However to think that all of this was done with not a qb in mind is wrong.  It is not  a coincidence in one of the most loaded qb drafts ever we have the 2nd most draft capital of any team.  We loaded up to get a top guy and failed. Simple as that.

The draft is over? Damn i was hoping we would have gotten a qb

[terrytate]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Terry, please just acknowledge you have no way of knowing that

 

You are correct i have no source.  It is purely speculation on my part based off of logic, common sense, and history.   

Just now, Pbomb said:

The draft is over? Damn i was hoping we would have gotten a qb

of course not.  we will get a ton of good players, just not that young potential franchise qb. 

[Doc Brown]

A lot of the frustration over the Jets moving up has more to do with almost two decades of being unable to land a franchise QB that's resulted in a never ending cycle of mediocrity.  Sometimes people need to vent.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, terrytate said:

There will always be people who want Beane fired, its the low hanging fruit.  he has done a great job   imo , i am just frustrated with the circumstances of the matter.  We desperately need a franchise qb , and there is no reasonable way of getting one anytime soon.

 

...I understand where you're coming from and yes my OPINION differs from yours as far as being able to fill the QB need.....pretty sure we ALL know the definition of a QUARTERBACK but is the a universally acceptable definition of a FRANCHISE QB?.....not that I am aware of in year 56 of following Bflo/NFL.....so your definition as well as countless others potentially differs WIDELY from McBeane's definition......sure it is one piece to the puzzle and a MAJOR piece at that...BUT.....the sum total of all the pieces have to align with what McBeane/McD/McDaboll have planned for this offensive scheme........their plan versus your plan or their opinion versus your opinion are bound to differ.....do they want a "Steady Eddie" game manager?.....do they want to mimic Air Coryell/Fouts era?......a QB who consistently is north of 4,000+ yds passing per season?.....if we knew WHAT their plan was, it would be easier to formulate an opinion.......but we don't, so we can only speculate and opinionate with decorum IMO.....

[terrytate]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...I understand where you're coming from and yes my OPINION differs from yours as far as being able to fill the QB need.....pretty sure we ALL know the definition of a QUARTERBACK but is the a universally acceptable definition of a FRANCHISE QB?.....not that I am aware of in year 56 of following Bflo/NFL.....so your definition as well as countless others potentially differs WIDELY from McBeane's definition......sure it is one piece to the puzzle and a MAJOR piece at that...BUT.....the sum total of all the pieces have to align with what McBeane/McD/McDaboll have planned for this offensive scheme........their plan versus your plan or their opinion versus your opinion are bound to differ.....do they want a "Steady Eddie" game manager?.....do they want to mimic Air Coryell/Fouts era?......a QB who consistently is north of 4,000+ yds passing per season?.....if we knew WHAT their plan was, it would be easier to formulate an opinion.......but we don't, so we can only speculate and opinionate with decorum IMO.....

 

Most elite qb's throw for 4,000 yards.  There were 8 last year and  there would have been more had wentz, keenum and a few others started all year.  

 

My definition of a franchise qb is the definition of what has been the standard for the past 10 years.  60 percent completion percentage, 2.5 int percentage, Under 10 fumbles,  Can lead 2 minute game winning drives, and have playoff success.  Those type of guys win you super bowls, enough with the steady eddies. 

[Putin]

1 hour ago, terrytate said:

No offense but this post screams "taking solace in willful ignorance".  

 

This is just a message board for entertainment purposes, but this is stance you have taken is problematic for me.  1. You are giving people hope where there is no hope. 2. It is this type of fan mentality which allows for incompetence to happen year after year.  3. You are trying to portrait a rosy picture  after the jets trade, and that is a facade of authenticity. 

 

I truly hate being this negative and certainly try to avoid that type of negativity in every day life, but I can't  let you mislead people.  Beane has done a phenomenal job, aquiring picks, shedding cap space, making the most of the assets he has.  However to think that all of this was done with not a qb in mind is wrong.  It is not  a coincidence in one of the most loaded qb drafts ever we have the 2nd most draft capital of any team.  We loaded up to get a top guy and failed. Simple as that.

How do you know we already failed ? 

I think it’s a little premature to make any kind of judgment ( don’t you think ?)since the draft is still over a month away , 

im a little disappointed as well but let’s wait and see what happens , 

[mead107]

It’s the off season 

everyone take a deep breath 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, terrytate said:

 

Most elite qb's throw for 4,000 yards.  There were 8 last year and  there would have been more had wentz, keenum and a few others started all year.  

 

My definition of a franchise qb is the definition of what has been the standard for the past 10 years.  60 percent completion percentage, 2.5 int percentage, Under 10 fumbles,  Can lead 2 minute game winning drives, and have playoff success.  Those type of guys win you super bowls, enough with the steady eddies. 

 

...and yes I tend to agree......and no I am not a fan of "Steady Eddies" by any means.......I also want my QB to be cerebral and a situational guy with dependability......take away the deep ball and Peyton would eat you up underneath......stack the box and take away his short game and he'll beat you long.......Brady as well....by situational, I mean can I have any confidence that my guy, down by 7 in the 4th with 2:28 on the clock, execute the two minute drill and tie this bad boy up?.....as I said, can my guy take what you give him and beat you in a multitude of ways?......here is a "chuckle" that the stat gang likes to quote, so I wouldn't want this "bust" on my team (COUGH): "Aaron Rodgers has never won a game in which he trailed by more than one point in the fourth quarter to a team with a winning record. He’s 0-35 in those games."........