Cousins to Denver?

[Wayne Cubed]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

If Daboll runs the E-P, it has those same concepts of precision passing. It just utilizes less complexity in the plays and play calling. 

 

It's about route combos though, not timing. Helping the QB find the open guy easier. Suppose I don't really know what he meant by precision. I just assumed he meant Kirk would be a good WCO QB, which I think he's right.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Wayne Cubed

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Tyrod is $18 million I believe    ..  McCown $5 mil as a bridge starter?    I doubt he'd use that offer to wipe his *** 

[GunnerBill]

This was ALWAYS his most likely destination.  It is a good outcome for the Bills draft wise. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

This was ALWAYS his most likely destination.  It is a good outcome for the Bills draft wise. 

 

One more team in the top 5 that will not be drafting a QB. Definitely a positive for the Bills.

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

22 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

It's about route combos though, not timing. Helping the QB find the open guy easier. Suppose I don't really know what he meant by precision. I just assumed he meant Kirk would be a good WCO QB, which I think he's right.

Yep and that is all we have seen him in. But typically a WCO QB could effectively utilize the E-P as they mostly  differ in how they are communicated. It’s truly much better for a rookie as it is much simpler verbiage focuses more on concepts than specific route trees. As far as how much precision passing Daboll will want out of the QB I would guess as much as possible. But it’s also possible Gaughan doesn’t know this and is referring back to the WCO.

 

im pretty sure the Panthers used the E-P system when McD was there. Mike mccoy also brought it to Denver last year. McD May have wanted to use it last year but settled for the WCO with Dennison. 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[GG]

14 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Tyrod is $18 million I believe    ..  McCown $5 mil as a bridge starter?    I doubt he'd use that offer to wipe his *** 

 

It was an illustration of the range of what Bills should expect to pay for a bridge starter.  Not a hard concept, really

 

McCown signed for $6 million with the Jets last year.  Fitz signed for $3.7 million.  At the upper end of the bridge type QBs are Tyrods, Glennons, etc that can command about $15 million/year.

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, GG said:

 

It was an illustration of the range of what Bills should expect to pay for a bridge starter.  Not a hard concept, really

 

McCown signed for $6 million with the Jets last year.  Fitz signed for $3.7 million.  At the upper end of the bridge type QBs are Tyrods, Glennons, etc that can command about $15 million/year.

 

 

I mis read the McCown.  I was thinking McCarron (leaving Cincy)      was McCown signed to be the starter or backup?  

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[GG]

2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

I mis read the McCown.    was he signed to be the starter or backup?  

 

 

Technically he was signed as a starter, but Jets held a nominal QB competition.  Tough to lose against Petty & Hack.

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 “lift a modest team in his shoulders out of mediocrity” 

This quote struck me.   This quote relates to the idea that Cousins isn't good enough because the Redskins haven't won enough when he was at QB.   It's part of the argument about whether to attribute wins to the QB. 

 

Well, if he isn't good enough because his team hasn't won enough, then it isn't worth spending money on any of the free agents.  May as well cut Tyrod, trade up and take your chances, because there is no other solution. 

 

But the fundamental point is at least flawed, if not out and out wrong.   

 

From the Bills' point of view, where would be the absolute WORST place for Cousins to go?   Absolute worst.  Someone suggested it earlier.  Brady retires next week and Cousins signs in New England.   Why is that the worst?   Because Cousins fits what Belichick wants EXACTLY.   A guy with a good enough arm who studies all the time, works hard, learns and improves.   By the way, Brady's passer ratings in his early years are just like Cousins.   He didn't turn into a premier QB until he reached 30.   

 

But, you say, the Patriots are already winners.   Yes, and that's exactly the point.   Why are the Patriots already winners?    Because of Brady?   Only in part.   It's because of Belichick.   Give Belichick the right QB and he's going to win.   IT'S NOT ABOUT THE PLAYERS.   If it were about the players, Denver would have been better last year.   It's about the coach.    

 

So it makes no sense to me to say you don't want Cousins because his team didn't win.   Wins aren't a measure of his value and his ability.   The best measure, which is far from perfect but it's all you have, are his personal stats, and the shorthand for those is his passer rating.  

 

Let's look at another example:  Flacco.   Flacco is 8-8 and 9-7 the last two years.   Does that mean you don't want Flacco?    I don't want Flacco, but not because his team has played 500 ball.   I don't want him because his passer rating is consistently in the low 80s.    HIS TEAM IS 8-8 BECAUSE HE ISN'T VERY GOOD, AS SHOWN BY HIS STATS.   Cousins' passer rating is consistently in the top 10 in the league, Flacco around 20.   

 

I get that some of you don't like Flacco for one reason or another, but it makes no sense to say he isn't good enough because he hasn't won in the NFL.   If that's your argument, then the only to get a quarterback is to draft one, start him for four years or less until you decide he can't win in the NFL and then draft another one.  Good luck with that.  

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

This quote struck me.   This quote relates to the idea that Cousins isn't good enough because the Redskins haven't won enough when he was at QB.   It's part of the argument about whether to attribute wins to the QB. 

 

Well, if he isn't good enough because his team hasn't won enough, then it isn't worth spending money on any of the free agents.  May as well cut Tyrod, trade up and take your chances, because there is no other solution. 

 

But the fundamental point is at least flawed, if not out and out wrong.   

 

From the Bills' point of view, where would be the absolute WORST place for Cousins to go?   Absolute worst.  Someone suggested it earlier.  Brady retires next week and Cousins signs in New England.   Why is that the worst?   Because Cousins fits what Belichick wants EXACTLY.   A guy with a good enough arm who studies all the time, works hard, learns and improves.   By the way, Brady's passer ratings in his early years are just like Cousins.   He didn't turn into a premier QB until he reached 30.   

 

But, you say, the Patriots are already winners.   Yes, and that's exactly the point.   Why are the Patriots already winners?    Because of Brady?   Only in part.   It's because of Belichick.   Give Belichick the right QB and he's going to win.   IT'S NOT ABOUT THE PLAYERS.   If it were about the players, Denver would have been better last year.   It's about the coach.    

 

So it makes no sense to me to say you don't want Cousins because his team didn't win.   Wins aren't a measure of his value and his ability.   The best measure, which is far from perfect but it's all you have, are his personal stats, and the shorthand for those is his passer rating.  

 

Let's look at another example:  Flacco.   Flacco is 8-8 and 9-7 the last two years.   Does that mean you don't want Flacco?    I don't want Flacco, but not because his team has played 500 ball.   I don't want him because his passer rating is consistently in the low 80s.    HIS TEAM IS 8-8 BECAUSE HE ISN'T VERY GOOD, AS SHOWN BY HIS STATS.   Cousins' passer rating is consistently in the top 10 in the league, Flacco around 20.   

 

I get that some of you don't like Flacco for one reason or another, but it makes no sense to say he isn't good enough because he hasn't won in the NFL.   If that's your argument, then the only to get a quarterback is to draft one, start him for four years or less until you decide he can't win in the NFL and then draft another one.  Good luck with that.  

 

 

It was a loosely paraphrased quote from Gaughan going off of memory from that article but the point remains. I agree with the comparison to Brady in that I was listening to James laurinaitis describe what it was like to play against Cousins yesterday and part of it reminded me of Brady. He said they never considered Cousins an elite qb like a Brees, etc but every time they played him he tore them up because he was so incredibly well prepared. He said he knew every coverage and appeared to have studied film to a ridiculous level. This reminded me of Brady though I’m not saying that he is Brady level of course. But Daboll may covet him.

[TheFunPolice]

If you pay Cousins a ton one plus is that you have 4 top 64 in the draft rookies on cheap deals from this draft

 

That's a lot of talent at a bargain price, especially when you consider Tre White as well.

Edited February 1, 2018 by TheFunPolice

[YoloinOhio]

7 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

If you pay Cousins a ton one plus is that you have 4 top 64 in the draft rookies on cheap deals from this draft

 

That's a lot of talent at a bargain price, especially when you consider Tre White as well.

I think that’s a pretty good point. For a team not picking high enough to grab one of the top QBs without trading up, this is a decent option if you are willing to pony up. I do think that the Bills already know whether or not Cousins has any interest in potentially coming to Buffalo, and that will shape their level of pursuit.

[TheFunPolice]

I actually think the Bills have decent weapons on offense.

 

Shady

Benjamin

Clay

Zay Jones showed some flashes

 

IMO the OL is also solid, especially if Glenn gets back. Glenn, Richie, Groy, unknown RG, Dawkins. Get a guard in the draft or free agency and that's a good OL as well.

 

Draft a WR early and sign another and if you get a good QB to distribute the ball this offense could be very good immediately.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

38 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

This quote struck me.   This quote relates to the idea that Cousins isn't good enough because the Redskins haven't won enough when he was at QB.   It's part of the argument about whether to attribute wins to the QB. 

 

Well, if he isn't good enough because his team hasn't won enough, then it isn't worth spending money on any of the free agents.  May as well cut Tyrod, trade up and take your chances, because there is no other solution. 

 

But the fundamental point is at least flawed, if not out and out wrong.   

 

From the Bills' point of view, where would be the absolute WORST place for Cousins to go?   Absolute worst.  Someone suggested it earlier.  Brady retires next week and Cousins signs in New England.   Why is that the worst?   Because Cousins fits what Belichick wants EXACTLY.   A guy with a good enough arm who studies all the time, works hard, learns and improves.   By the way, Brady's passer ratings in his early years are just like Cousins.   He didn't turn into a premier QB until he reached 30

 

That would suck.  Unfortunately, (actually fortunately), unless NE dumps Tom now, Cousins will be off the market.  Seeing him go the JETS or Miami would suck too.  

 

I'm not all in on Cousins, but of the QB field in play he may be the best option.  

 

As to Wins and Losses wrt QB 

When the Saints had a losing record of 7-9 in '15 and 7-9 in '16, did people blame Brees (or the Defense and lack of a run game)?

When the Chargers had  a losing record of 4-12 in '15 and 5-11 in '16,  did people blame Rivers? 

 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

It was a loosely paraphrased quote from Gaughan going off of memory from that article but the point remains. I agree with the comparison to Brady in that I was listening to James laurinaitis describe what it was like to play against Cousins yesterday and part of it reminded me of Brady. He said they never considered Cousins an elite qb like a Brees, etc but every time they played him he tore them up because he was so incredibly well prepared. He said he knew every coverage and appeared to have studied film to a ridiculous level. This reminded me of Brady though I’m not saying that he is Brady level of course. But Daboll may covet him.

I think people are naive about what it takes to be really good.   Brady was regularly the 8th to 10th rated QB early in his career, right where Cousins is.   Brady learned his way to greatness.   Whether Cousins will be great, I don't know, but he's put himself on the learning path.   He believes in it.   

 

Belichick wins because his team is better prepared.   Almost always better prepared.  He says you prepare and prepare and then the game begins and you make changes to respond to what the other team is doing, but the changes are possible because you prepared.   

 

And, I haven't talked about this before, but some of it is simply brain power.   How well and how quickly can you digest information on the field and make decisions?   That's what the Wonderlic is supposed to test.   I think Cousins is easily within the top 10 of QB Wonderlic scores.   

 

Cousins with Belichick could be another 10 years of misery. 

48 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

That would suck.  Unfortunately, (actually fortunately), unless NE dumps Tom now, Cousins will be off the market.  Seeing him go the JETS or Miami would suck too.  

 

I'm not all in on Cousins, but of the QB field in play he may be the best option.  

 

As to Wins and Losses wrt QB 

When the Saints had a losing record of 7-9 in '15 and 7-9 in '16, did people blame Brees (or the Defense and lack of a run game)?

When the Chargers had  a losing record of 4-12 in '15 and 5-11 in '16,  did people blame Rivers? 

 

Brady could announce his retirement after the Super Bowl.   Of the Pats could cut him.   Both could happen before March.   The Cousins auction doesn't begin until March.  I'm not saying it will happen, but it would be a nightmare.    I think Cousins would go there in a heartbeat.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Brady could announce his retirement after the Super Bowl.   Of the Pats could cut him.   Both could happen before March.   The Cousins auction doesn't begin until March.  I'm not saying it will happen, but it would be a nightmare.    I think Cousins would go there in a heartbeat.  

 

I think I just read something where Tom said he's in no hurry to retire.   That means Kraft has to dump him.  

 

 

this next is LOL 

 

Tom Brady: 'Why Does Everyone Want Me to Retire So Bad ...

Another story indicated that if a team has a gentlemen's agreement to make a long term deal that becomes public then backing out would look very bad on the party that reneged.

 

 

do that before Toms announcement 

[YoloinOhio]

8 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

I think I just read something where Tom said he's in no hurry to retire.   That means Kraft has to dump him.  

 

 

this next is LOL 

 

Tom Brady: 'Why Does Everyone Want Me to Retire So Bad ...

Another story indicated that if a team has a gentlemen's agreement to make a long term deal that becomes public then backing out would look very bad on the party that reneged.

 

 

do that before Toms announcement 

Jonathan Kraft said something this week like “Tom has earned the right to go out on his terms” ... they are probably stuck with him until he gets injured 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Jonathan Kraft said something this week like “Tom has earned the right to go out on his terms” ... they are probably stuck with him until he gets injured 

which is what I expect.   

 

Now, the only way I see Tom retiring after the SB is if Gisele says retire or no more nookie 

[aristocrat]

can cousins become brees? only a couple teams after brees when he became a FA. One team one a superbowl and tons of success. The other...Miami. If Cousins continues to put up 4500 yards 28 td seasons for 10 years is that worth the 27 mil? Thats what brees did and it's been worth it. I think he's worth the gamble.

[klos63]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Jonathan Kraft said something this week like “Tom has earned the right to go out on his terms” ... they are probably stuck with him until he gets injured 

stuck with Brady, some teams have it so tough.

[reddogblitz]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

 

But, you say, the Patriots are already winners.   Yes, and that's exactly the point.   Why are the Patriots already winners?    Because of Brady?   Only in part.   It's because of Belichick.   Give Belichick the right QB and he's going to win.   IT'S NOT ABOUT THE PLAYERS.   If it were about the players, Denver would have been better last year.   It's about the coach.    

 

In fact the Cheatetrs** have gone 13-6 with Matt Cassell, Jimmy G, And Jacoby Brisset under center.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

In fact the Cheatetrs** have gone 13-6 with Matt Cassell, Jimmy G, And Jacoby Brisset under center.

I've always thought the Pats made Brady a winner, not the other way around. 

[Kelly the Dog]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Jonathan Kraft said something this week like “Tom has earned the right to go out on his terms” ...

Lucky Sperm said that?

[BobbyC81]

On 1/31/2018 at 12:19 PM, YoloinOhio said:

If Wash allows his agent to talk to Denver it’s not tampering. No FA rules involved if it’s a trade 

 

Agents are running amok.  They need to clamp down on them.  Are they now getting paid to provide reporters with back door information?   So how could it be announced that Denver has deal with Cousins?  Again, people finding ways to get around the rules. So, if the agent talks to Denver, then talks to Cousins but Cousins doesn’t directly talk to Denver, it’s OK?  That’s BS!

[BillsFan4]

I am wondering if Minnesota is going to be in the running for Cousins.

 

They could be an appealing destination. They have a very good young team, great defense (they were in fact the #1 defense in the NFL - in both PPG and YPG). 

 

They also have tons of cap space - $50+ M. 

 

If they decide they'd rather have Cousins over Keenum and/or Bridgewater (I sure would), the Vikings could be a strong suitor for Cousins.

 

 

I am still rooting for the Bills to land him. My dream is one of Cousins, Luck or 1 of the top 3 QBs in this draft (Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield). 

Cousins would be great because he'd leave us a bunch of draft picks to fill a bunch of holes, and it would hopefully allow the Bills to build on last season and make a playoff push instead of a potential step back with an unproven rookie QB. 

I also believe that Cousins is nowhere near his ceiling yet. With how hard he works and studies, I only see him getting better. He's only been starting 3 years. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Virgil]

I Denver would be my pick if he doesn’t come here. I don’t want him on the Jets and then I trade with Denver. 

 

Moving to 5 would be a 2018 1st and 3rd and next years 1st.  If we get our QB, keep our 1st and both our 2nds, I’m good.  That’s a starting DT, QB, LB, and DB. 

 

Picking 5 leaves us with probably the 2nd best QB, assuming the Jets don’t jump in front of us.

 

Walking away from this draft with one of the top 3 QB’s and 3 other day one starters would be amazing.  Throw in some mid level FA’s and life is good. 

[Patrick Duffy]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

I Denver would be my pick if he doesn’t come here. I don’t want him on the Jets and then I trade with Denver. 

 

Moving to 5 would be a 2018 1st and 3rd and next years 1st.  If we get our QB, keep our 1st and both our 2nds, I’m good.  That’s a starting DT, QB, LB, and DB. 

 

Picking 5 leaves us with probably the 2nd best QB, assuming the Jets don’t jump in front of us.

 

Walking away from this draft with one of the top 3 QB’s and 3 other day one starters would be amazing.  Throw in some mid level FA’s and life is good. 

If you think that's all it would take to get to #5 then I have a feeling you will be disappointed. I believe it will take more than that to get to the #5 pick.

[KDIGGZ]

25 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

If you think that's all it would take to get to #5 then I have a feeling you will be disappointed. I believe it will take more than that to get to the #5 pick.

He was close. It would be our extra 1st, our extra 2nd, next year's 1st, and maybe a later round pick this year. Or we could have started Peterman and had that pick for free but everyone wants instant gratification now here we are with decisions to make that could lead to people being fired if they are wrong

[Virgil]

1 hour ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

If you think that's all it would take to get to #5 then I have a feeling you will be disappointed. I believe it will take more than that to get to the #5 pick.

 

Just using the chart sir

[thebandit27]

52 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

Just using the chart sir

 

Old chart or new chart?

[CSBill]

6 hours ago, Virgil said:

I Denver would be my pick if he doesn’t come here. I don’t want him on the Jets and then I trade with Denver. 

 

Moving to 5 would be a 2018 1st and 3rd and next years 1st.  If we get our QB, keep our 1st and both our 2nds, I’m good.  That’s a starting DT, QB, LB, and DB. 

 

Picking 5 leaves us with probably the 2nd best QB, assuming the Jets don’t jump in front of us.

 

Walking away from this draft with one of the top 3 QB’s and 3 other day one starters would be amazing.  Throw in some mid level FA’s and life is good. 

 

If all the Free Agents are settled by draft day--which they will be--throw out the chart for QB desperate teams. The teams in those tops spots will be able to trade them for ridiculously high randoms if they want. I doubt the current BIlls Regime will be willing to play that game. 

[Virgil]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Old chart or new chart?

 

 

[thebandit27]

26 minutes ago, CSBill said:

 

If all the Free Agents are settled by draft day--which they will be--throw out the chart for QB desperate teams. The teams in those tops spots will be able to trade them for ridiculously high randoms if they want. I doubt the current BIlls Regime will be willing to play that game. 

 

Well, consider that for a moment...

 

Suppose Denver lands Cousins, that takes one obvious QB team out of the question.

 

Then there's the question of how teams like Cleveland and Arizona handle their situations. It's entirely possible that one of them makes a move for a guy like McCarron.

 

Then you're looking at 3 QBs in the top 6 (assuming the Giants take one and Cleveland loses out on McCarron to Arizona--just as an example).

 

If a team picking in the top 10 wants to drive a hard bargain for a trade up, where does the leverage come from?

 

I suppose you're counting on competition from multiple suitors, but who? Obviously Buffalo, but who else is desperate? Maybe Miami. Possibly the Chargers.

[Patrick Duffy]

8 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

Just using the chart sir

Understood. Just saying I think some will be surprised at how much more it "could" take to move up to a spot like the #5. By all means though if it did take what you're thinking, I'd be all for it. Especially if it's the QB they have high on their chart.

9 hours ago, kdiggz said:

He was close. It would be our extra 1st, our extra 2nd, next year's 1st, and maybe a later round pick this year. Or we could have started Peterman and had that pick for free but everyone wants instant gratification now here we are with decisions to make that could lead to people being fired if they are wrong

Lol, well still have a chance at them starting Peterman for the upcoming season, depending on how everything plays out. I'm definitely interested to see how it all plays itself out.

[Real McClappy]

Was really hoping Denver would take Tyrod...

 

I wish we could land Cousins personally. I think he be a great fit for our Offense for many years to come. I just don't think we could afford his services.

[KDIGGZ]

7 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Lol, well still have a chance at them starting Peterman for the upcoming season, depending on how everything plays out. I'm definitely interested to see how it all plays itself out.

Too late now. This was the year to get a QB. Probably 3 guys that will be long term starters in the league. I don't know of anyone good coming out next year. It will be like the EJ draft all over again

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, kdiggz said:

Too late now. This was the year to get a QB. Probably 3 guys that will be long term starters in the league. I don't know of anyone good coming out next year. It will be like the EJ draft all over again

Yea I get all that. I'm just saying it "could" be the way they end up going, stay put at 21,22 and getting a QB that may fall to them if they are lucky and have them battle it out in camp. Will be interesting either way it goes. I personally would like to see Cousins in a Bills uni. But don't see that happening.....so I'm curious to see whaat route is taken.

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Yea I get all that. I'm just saying it "could" be the way they end up going, stay put at 21,22 and getting a QB that may fall to them if they are lucky and have them battle it out in camp. Will be interesting either way it goes. I personally would like to see Cousins in a Bills uni. But don't see that happening.....so I'm curious to see whaat route is taken.

If it takes a first and third this year and a first next year I don't think it's happening.  Can't imagine Beane burning draft capital like that.  Most I can imagine is one first and one other pick this year to move up to 13 or so.  

 

So I'm with you. I think Beane will keep his picks do the best he can.  And I think the Bills will make a serious run at Cousins.  

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

26 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Was really hoping Denver would take Tyrod...

 

I wish we could land Cousins personally. I think he be a great fit for our Offense for many years to come. I just don't think we could afford his services.

Tyrod is going to be released, no way a team trades a draft pick for him. He won't take a pay cut which is the main reason why I'm 100% sure he is gone. You can start celebrating now if you like.