NewEraBills Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, ProcessTheTrust said: I concede to your knowledge on this one, I only watched a couple NYG games. I assumed based on their position they had some significant needs. If they are sold on Rosen for their future, then sure, it's all set. But I guess I would apply the same logic you use waiting for the FA moves to finalize any projections to apply to waiting for their new regime to assess what they really want to do. The Giants roster isn't bad. They were just badly mismanaged in the coaching department and injuries actually hampered them. Their biggest issue is the OL and Gettleman is a trench guy. So to actually strengthen your point of the Giants selling the #2 pick, maybe Gettleman sells the pick to us and takes two linemen at 21 and 22 which is a good range for OL in the 1st rd. Then he can take a backer in the 2nd. If he sees Eli as his guy maybe this can work. There's still hope LOL, but it could be a long shot. OK now thinking about it, is there any other team in the 1st round outside of Cleveland that has more capital than us? We may can swing that trade with the Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHogan Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Things to consider: 1. Cousins will take one of those teams off the board... Likely Broncos or Bills 2. Dave Gettlemen, the Giants GM, worked for years with the McBeane. Watch for a Bills trade to #2. Giants take manning successor at 21 or22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BuffaloHogan said: Things to consider: 1. Cousins will take one of those teams off the board... Likely Broncos or Bills 2. Dave Gettlemen, the Giants GM, worked for years with the McBeane. Watch for a Bills trade to #2. Giants take manning successor at 21 or22. 2 Nahh, they'll most likely take OL and LB. Picking a QB there is not much different than taking one in the 2nd and 3rd. Blue chip OL and LB can be found there. But the trade with us could definitely happen. If we can trade Shaq for a 2nd and Glenn for a 2nd/3rd (this is of course based on rumors) and recoup some picks then I'd be all in trading to the #2 spot. We'll need to recoup some picks for moving up so high because our team will still need to fill in some spots. Edited January 15, 2018 by NewEraBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 2 - 1s and a second to get Mayfield?? Edited January 15, 2018 by mead107 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, NewEraBills said: Here's the way I see the Browns. They get a QB, a CB and another HB and they are in prime position to finally make their stand in the North. The Ravens are stuck in the middle of the road. The Bengals are underachievers. The Browns get their QB and a workhouse HB and they are all of a sudden in prime position to do damage in the AFC North. If you are the Browns are you trading picks? I wouldn't. It's my time now. I hear your point but see it a little different from you. They are coming off an 0 and 16 season and they aren’t even close to Pittsburgh, especially with Ben probably returning. They have very minimal talent on their team and they are not 1 draft away from being good. They are at least 2 amazing drafts away. So I would get my QB at 1 and trade the 4 pick if a team gives up a ton. Get your QB this draft, get s ton of picks for 2018 and 2019, hit on a lot of those and then you are probably a contender. Just the way I see it personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 One thing is for sure - the Senior Bowl will be a good watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: Broncos and Browns the target in the top 5. Both 2018 1st's 1 of our 2018 2nd's 2019 1st Tyrod Taylor Taylor wont be on the roster...they would have had to pay him a $6 million roster bonus in March. Draft is end of April Edited January 15, 2018 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 OK now just thinking about some of the rumors of trades (Glenn, Shaq, Washington) and the draft capital we have. If we can swing some trades for the players rumored to be on the out and recoup some capital because we are certainly going to need it, I'd say try to get to 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, billsfan11 said: I hear your point but see it a little different from you. They are coming off an 0 and 16 season and they aren’t even close to Pittsburgh, especially with Ben probably returning. They have very minimal talent on their team and they are not 1 draft away from being good. They are at least 2 amazing drafts away. So I would get my QB at 1 and trade the 4 pick if a team gives up a ton. Get your QB this draft, get s ton of picks for 2018 and 2019, hit on a lot of those and then you are probably a contender. Just the way I see it personally I didn't say Pitt I said Baltimore and Cincy. But they do have talent on their team. Their DL and OL are actually filled with talent Garrett, Ogbah, Shelton are all 1st round picks and when all of them are on the field the front is actually good. Ogbah got hurt this year. Zeitler, Bitonio, Thomas (older) is a pretty talented OL They have weapons at TE. They could use another WR. But here's how I see the Browns. If you look at their games this year, they were IN many of those games with BAD QB play. You lost 4 games by 3 points; you lost 1 game by 6 points, another by 9. You don't hang around in those games if you don't have talent. In those same games, your QB is what cost you. I'm not saying they can't use another blue chip player at CB because they can but with some competent QB play they actually could have won at least 6 games. So I don't see them as lacking talent at all and with the Ravens consistently stuck in the middle and the Bengals being underachievers, they actually could surpass those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I just don't see clev or giants trading out.....they both grab qb's....especially after the success of wentz and goff. indy takes barkley at 3 clev swaps with Denver picks 4&5. Denver takes a qb at 4 clev takes best avail at 5 jets may take a qb at 6 cincy, wash, ariz, all need a qb bills need to overpay in F/A to get a QB....keep all draft picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Okay, so the major assumptions I'm making here is that no players are involved in the trades, and I have not considered the teams in these picks or their needs. Based on estimates of the picks we will have, here's what we've got: 1st overall pick: - Based on the new trade chart we cannot get the 1st overall pick - Based on the old trade chart we would need to give: - 1-21, 1-22, Future 1st, 2-21, 2-24, Future 2nd, and 3-31 2nd overall pick: - Based on the new trade chart we would need to give: - 1-21, 1-22, Future 1st, 2-24 - Based on the old trade chart we would need to give: - 1-21, 1-22, Future 1st, 2-21, Future 2nd, 3-31 3rd overall pick: - Based on the new trade chart we would need to give: - 1-22, Future 1st, 2-21, 3-31 - Based on the old trade chart we would need to give: - 1-21, 1-22, 2-21, 2-24 4th overall pick: - Based on the new trade chart we would need to give: - 1-22, Future 1st, 2-24, 3-31 - Based on the old trade chart we would need to give: - 1-22, Future 1st, 2-24, Future 2nd, 3-31 5th overall pick: - Based on the new trade chart we would need to give: - 1-22, Future 1st, 2-24 - Based on the old trade chart we would need to give: - 1-22, Future 1st, 2-24, Future 2nd 10th overall pick: - Based on the new trade chart we would need to give: - 1-22, 2-21, 4-21 - Based on the old trade chart we would need to give: - 1-22, Future 1st, 3-31 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, NewEraBills said: I didn't say Pitt I said Baltimore and Cincy. But they do have talent on their team. Their DL and OL are actually filled with talent Garrett, Ogbah, Shelton are all 1st round picks and when all of them are on the field the front is actually good. Ogbah got hurt this year. Zeitler, Bitonio, Thomas (older) is a pretty talented OL They have weapons at TE. They could use another WR. But here's how I see the Browns. If you look at their games this year, they were IN many of those games with BAD QB play. You lost 4 games by 3 points; you lost 1 game by 6 points, another by 9. You don't hang around in those games if you don't have talent. In those same games, your QB is what cost you. I'm not saying they can't use another blue chip player at CB because they can but with some competent QB play they actually could have won at least 6 games. So I don't see them as lacking talent at all and with the Ravens consistently stuck in the middle and the Bengals being underachievers, they actually could surpass those two. Fair enough man, we’ll agree to disagree. I don’t think you can fluke your way to 0 and 16 though lol. They literally lost to Pittsburghs 3rd stringers the last game of the year. And are now 1 and 31 in their last 32 games. They will go down as one of the worst teams ever. It’s pretty hard to justify anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acattack15 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said: One thing is for sure - the Senior Bowl will be a good watch. Very Very True. I don't remember a more QB heavy Senior Bowl than this with Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, Mason Rudolph, and Luke Falk all accepting invites. Very intriguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) I don't think it matters what we're willing to package if the top 2 teams aren't willing to do business cause they're locked in to drafting a QB. The real question for me though is whether or not the 3rd ranked QB in this class is worth the picks. Would you rather overpay to get one of the top 2? How many drafts produce THREE franchise QBs? I can think of 3 years that did '04, '83, '71, pretty much every other year you see one or two, or in the case of the year we drafted EJ: none. Edited January 15, 2018 by ndirish1978 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 17 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: I don't think it matters what we're willing to package if the top 2 teams aren't willing to do business cause they're locked in to drafting a QB. The real question for me though is whether or not the 3rd ranked QB in this class is worth the picks. Would you rather overpay to get one of the top 2? How many drafts produce THREE franchise QBs? I can think of 3 years that did '04, '83, '71, pretty much every other year you see one or two, or in the case of the year we drafted EJ: none. I've already given my answer. Outside of the top two I'm not willing to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, NewEraBills said: I've already given my answer. Outside of the top two I'm not willing to do it. In that case, are you willing to overpay to get one of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, TheTruthHurts said: Yeah, they may hold off on a franchise guy, draft a 2nd or 3rd round project. I’d imagine they take one now for the simple reason they might not pick this high again any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, ndirish1978 said: In that case, are you willing to overpay to get one of them? I would need to see what our FA looks like and if we can recoup some other picks through trading players. So the answer is a MAYBE LOL. I care about the team overall. As much as we need a QB, I think it would be a disservice to put anyone who cannot use their legs behind Ducasse and Mills, even a bridge QB. So I would like upgrades on the right side of the line. I did not like the run defense this year after the Dareus trade. No real NT so we got gashed. We game planned well by having our backers sell out for the run but against a somewhat accurate QB you're going to get torched with that game plan. So I need to see how other stuff plays out before going all in. If other stuff plays out somewhat sufficiently, throw everything at #2. But I just can't fathom it in my mind to overpay if things are in shambles in a lot of other spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 This is the draft pick trade value calculator the NFL GMs use. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/draft/draft-trade-chart/ Cleveland (1 and 4) NYG (2) and Denver (5) are in the market for a QB. Wild card is Indy at 3. They can move back and collect draft pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 24 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: I don't think it matters what we're willing to package if the top 2 teams aren't willing to do business cause they're locked in to drafting a QB. The real question for me though is whether or not the 3rd ranked QB in this class is worth the picks. Would you rather overpay to get one of the top 2? How many drafts produce THREE franchise QBs? I can think of 3 years that did '04, '83, '71, pretty much every other year you see one or two, or in the case of the year we drafted EJ: none. I dont belive that is a guarantee. If Cleveland lands cousins do they have to pick a Qb at 1? No. You are not paying a Qb 100 plus million and take a Qb number 1 overall. The giants could feel they are alot closer than they apear. Get eli a line and a healthy ODB in a contract year you may trade down to pick up more picks to fix the line thise year and get an extra 1 next year to replace Eli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 36 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: 3rd overall pick: - Based on the new trade chart we would need to give: - 1-22, Future 1st, 2-21, 3-31 If that were the case (and assuming OBD likes QB3 in the draft), then we could pull this trade, and then look to trade back with 1-21 and regain that Future 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Mat68 said: I dont belive that is a guarantee. If Cleveland lands cousins do they have to pick a Qb at 1? No. You are not paying a Qb 100 plus million and take a Qb number 1 overall. The giants could feel they are alot closer than they apear. Get eli a line and a healthy ODB in a contract year you may trade down to pick up more picks to fix the line thise year and get an extra 1 next year to replace Eli. Those are pretty extreme lines of thinking. Why is Cousins signing with the worst team in pro sports by choice? When is the last time the Giants have picked this high? The last time they had a top 5 pick they drafted Rivers. I don't think they can afford to go another position with an aging QB and good QBs available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, JohnBonhamRocks said: Been hearing that the Giants may not draft a QB at #2 because the new regime is OK with Manning for now. If that is the case, and if OBD likes a guy bound to be there, then they should move whatever has to be moved to get there and draft him. I have been saying this forever. For the Bills, Cordy Glenn has to be perceived as being healthy and coming back healthy. Glenn is a huge chip in a deal with the Giants as their GM said priority number one was to fix the OL, even ahead of QB, and they are DESPERATE for quality LT. Glenn certainly fills that Bill. Like I said, a healthy Glenn will go a long way for the Bills, meaning a little less draft capital to give up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, njbuff said: I have been saying this forever. For the Bills, Cordy Glenn has to be perceived as being healthy and coming back healthy. Glenn is a huge chip in a deal with the Giants as their GM said priority number one was to fix the OL, even ahead of QB, and they are DESPERATE for quality LT. Glenn certainly fills that Bill. Like I said, a healthy Glenn will go a long way for the Bills, meaning a little less draft capital to give up. So Cordy, 21, 22 and a 2nd to move up there? That's a lot of value for an injured LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: Those are pretty extreme lines of thinking. Why is Cousins signing with the worst team in pro sports by choice? When is the last time the Giants have picked this high? The last time they had a top 5 pick they drafted Rivers. I don't think they can afford to go another position with an aging QB and good QBs available. Why? He wants the most money and the most guaranteed money. Cleveland has so much cap space they could give cousins a blank check. I 100% believe Cousins goes to whatever teams pay him the most guaranteed money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Mat68 said: Why? He wants the most money and the most guaranteed money. Cleveland has so much cap space they could give cousins a blank check. I 100% believe Cousins goes to whatever teams pay him the most guaranteed money. I don't. I think he actually wants to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 2 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said: Broncos and Browns the target in the top 5. Both 2018 1st's 1 of our 2018 2nd's 2019 1st Tyrod Taylor The Broncos are happy with the QB position on their team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, ndirish1978 said: I don't. I think he actually wants to win. Then 3 years ago why wouldn't he accept the bridge contract Washington offered? Cleveland can offer so much more money than anyone Would you give up 30 mil guaranteed? No one will Denver doesnt have the cap space to make a mega offer. I could see Cleveland offering the first fully guaranteed deal. 100 to 125 mil over 5 years all guaranteed. Cleveland is desperate, and has so much cap space wicked combo for a Fa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mat68 said: Then 3 years ago why wouldn't he accept the bridge contract Washington offered? Cleveland can offer so much more money than anyone Would you give up 30 mil guaranteed? No one will Denver doesnt have the cap space to make a mega offer. I could see Cleveland offering the first fully guaranteed deal. 100 to 125 mil over 5 years all guaranteed. Cleveland is desperate, and has so much cap space wicked combo for a Fa. And it's in Cleveland's best interest to blow up their cap space on a 30 year old QB rather than taking the best QB in a draft that has good ones and having him on a rookie contract? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albillny Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, mead107 said: 2 - 1s and a second to get Mayfield?? I agree. There is something that is exciting about Mayfield, I think he could be for real. He seems to love the game like Favre did and can make some special plays like Brees does. I know Mayfield has had some off field issues, but I don't think he is a Johnny football type, and coach would take care of that. ...gotta say, I would probably be okay with him planting a Bills flag on Foxboro's 50 yard line after a win there. Though the league might feel differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 2 hours ago, ProcessTheTrust said: I understand the fears of trading away the farm to get our QB when we have so many other immediate needs. However, watching the Rams and Eagles this year, I can't help but remember how almost everyone laughed at them in 2016 when they paid the following to go get their QBs for the next decade or so: Rams - Gave: 2016 1st, 2 2nds, 3rd, 2017 1st, 3rd Received: 2016 1st overall pick, 4th, 6th Eagles - Gave: 2016 1st, 3rd, 4th, 2017 1st, 2018 2nd Received: 2016 2nd overall pick and a 2017 4th I'm not saying we should make such a dramatic move just because it worked for both the Rams and Eagles so quickly. I'm asking - if Darnold and Rosen come out of the combine with projections of being "the guy" worthy, how much would you be willing to give away to go get them? Yep i will do either package 3 - Firsts Glenn A 2nd and a 4th will get you to Two. And i would do that in a heartbeat to get Rosen or Darnold 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Yep i will do either package 3 - Firsts Glenn A 2nd and a 4th will get you to Two. And i would do that in a heartbeat to get Rosen or Darnold Do you REALLY want Rosen though? I feel like he has a big mouth and could tank a team that's playing poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, NewEraBills said: Yeah but are they OK with Manning as a bridge or just OK with Manning as their guy? I see the Giants as, New GM, New Coaching Regime, they are getting their new QB. Exactly. You take the shot. You may not be in that position again. If you wait and draft lower, the cost will be worse if you can make the deal. GMs will be using Cleveland as a case study on what not to do to avoid being fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, ndirish1978 said: Do you REALLY want Rosen though? I feel like he has a big mouth and could tank a team that's playing poorly. I do. He is going to be a top end QB in the league. Still has room to grow too. Put that UCLA team on his back with a trash defense and not mant NFLers on that offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 If the 1st two QB's (Darnold and Rosen) are unavailable you go for the 3rd or even the 4th best if you think they are franchise QB's.... Indy can use the extra picks and maybe Glenn... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 sign Kirk Cousins stay put at 21/22 and draft Mason Rudolph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said: sign Kirk Cousins stay put at 21/22 and draft Mason Rudolph IF they sign Cousins, there's no need to spend a 1st round pick on a QB. Edited January 15, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Cleveland (0-16) .520 New York Giants (3-13) .531 Indianapolis (4-12) .480 Cleveland - from Houston (4-12) .516 Denver (5-11) .492 New York Jets (5-11) .520 Tampa Bay (5-11) .555 Chicago (5-11) .559 San Francisco (6-10)# .512 Oakland (6-10)# .512 Miami (6-10) .543 Cincinnati (7-9) .465 Washington (7-9) .539 Green Bay (7-9) .539 Arizona (8-8) .488 Baltimore (9-7) .441 Los Angeles Chargers (9-7) .457 Seattle (9-7) .492 Dallas (9-7) .496 Detroit (9-7) .496 Buffalo* (9-7) .492 Buffalo - The question is how far up can the bills get and who will be left. I see picks 1 and 2 being QBs so how much do you give up to take the 3rd best prospect? Plus with denver and the jets being right up there I see it being a tough deal to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albillny Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: IF the sign Cousins, there's no need to spend a 1st round pick on a QB. Sure there is. We need to hedge our bets. Don't forget Cousins was drafted in the fourth round the year RG III was drafted in the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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