Jump to content

Turnovers--the only reason the bills made the playoffs


Recommended Posts

The Bills were statistically bad or at best mediocre in virtually every category except one: turnovers. They were 6th in raw rushing yardage, but only because they ran it so much. They were actually just 14th in rushing ypa after finishing first last year. Their pythagorean (statistically expected) record was 6.4-9.6.

 

However, their offense surrendered the 6th fewest turnovers in the league and their defense finished 9th in takeaways. Importantly, Tyrod Taylor had the lowest interception percentage (1.0) of any quarterback in the *entire league*. Obviously, that had a material impact on the team's fortunes; teams so weak in so many major categories shouldn't have winning records.

 

They were seventh in turnover differential, and if you take away the statistical blip that was the first half of the Chargers game, they are in the top two or three.

 

**A tip of the cap to Hauschka too; his excellence was probably good for one additional win above expectations too. Signing him was like the Indians getting Andrew Miller in 2016. 

Edited by dave mcbride
  • Like (+1) 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

Someone is a unhappy camper lol.

 

Thanks, Marvin, Dalton and Boyd.

Not at all. i am as happy as can be. Turnovers are huge, and the Bills prioritized it. It was smart. Targeting safeties who can force turnovers was a great move. Poyer and Hyde were phenomenal in pass defense all season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Not at all. i am as happy as can be. Turnovers are huge, and the Bills prioritized it. It was smart. Targeting safeties who can force turnovers was a great move. Poyer and Hyde were phenomenal in pass defense all season.

the difference those 2 made all season long was stunning. Such a dramatic improvement from last season.

  • Like (+1) 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Not at all. i am as happy as can be. Turnovers are huge, and the Bills prioritized it. It was smart. Targeting safeties who can force turnovers was a great move. Poyer and Hyde were phenomenal in pass defense all season.

 

They were outstanding signings, both of them. 

 

This team has a long way to go still.  But I have done culture change as a coach albeit in a different sport and at a much lower level... it is freaking hard and getting over that first major hump often comes "ugly" if that makes sense.  The Bills will need to pass better, will need to improve their run defense and their pass rush, need more consistency from the offensive line.... but the first thing they needed to do is win.  Winning slowly eradicates the expectation of defeat and makes improving those other crucial things that can make you proper winners easier to accomplish. 

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Thank you (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can't argue with that. Honestly, this team isn't very good top to bottom. Even compared to some other Bills teams over the last 17 years. But they've been opportunistic and have had some breaks go their way.

 

But after all this time, they're due for some good fortune. Let's hope that carries into this coming Sunday.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They were outstanding signings, both of them. 

 

This team has a long way to go still.  But I have done culture change as a coach albeit in a different sport and at a much lower level... it is freaking hard and getting over that first major hump often comes "ugly" if that makes sense.  The Bills will need to pass better, will need to improve their run defense and their pass rush, need more consistency from the offensive line.... but the first thing they needed to do is win.  Winning slowly eradicates the expectation of defeat and makes improving those other crucial things that can make you proper winners easier to accomplish. 

Great post Gunner. It's a milestone or baby step of what is coming....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our point differential is absolutely ridiculous for a playoff team. Like, historically bad. We eked out tough wins with turnovers and often when the turnovers didn't come we got blown the hell out. We only had one really convincing win all year (Oakland, maybe Jets week one as well) but several convincing losses. Rebounding from that three game skid is something I haven't seen a Bills team do in I don't know how long. They are tough and they believe in themselves. They kept fighting. That is why they are in the playoffs. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills were statistically bad or at best mediocre in virtually every category except one: turnovers. They were 6th in raw rushing yardage, but only because they ran it so much. They were actually just 14th in rushing ypa after finishing first last year. Their pythagorean (statistically expected) record was 6.4-9.6.

 

However, their offense surrendered the 6th fewest turnovers in the league and their defense finished 9th in takeaways. Importantly, Tyrod Taylor had the lowest interception percentage (1.0) of any quarterback in the *entire league*. Obviously, that had a material impact on the team's fortunes; teams so weak in so many major categories shouldn't have winning records.

 

They were seventh in turnover differential, and if you take away the statistical blip that was the first half of the Chargers game, they are in the top two or three.

 

**A tip of the cap to Hauschka too; his excellence was probably good for one additional win above expectations too. Signing him was like the Indians getting Andrew Miller in 2016. 

How dare you cite stats and #'s.  McDermott called all those turnovers and is 100% responsible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The stats don't paint a pretty picture.  And stats say we'll lose next week.


Both the Jags O and D put up good numbers this year.  The Bills, on the other hand, ranked in the bottom half of the league in both offense and defense.  We're lucky to even be invited to the dance.


Then again, here are some other interesting stats.  The Bills finished with 9 wins, the Jaguars with 10.  In terms of the most important stat of all, there's not much to tell the two teams apart.


Furthermore, the only team we lost to over the last 6 weeks was the Pats - the best team in the league.  The Jags lost their last two games.  

 

The stats say the Jags have the better roster on both sides of the ball.  Other data suggests the Bills have the edge in heart and teamwork.  This game could be close.

 

(Btw, does anyone know how did the Bills do in Toxic Differential?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, FearLess Price said:

 

I think Bortles can make that happen 

He threw a few vs ten

I really hope so man. I have a feeling Marrone is going to be conservative as hell and just try to pound the rock against our D though. 

This is great stuff to be chatting about though for the first time in along time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills were statistically bad or at best mediocre in virtually every category except one: turnovers. They were 6th in raw rushing yardage, but only because they ran it so much. They were actually just 14th in rushing ypa after finishing first last year. Their pythagorean (statistically expected) record was 6.4-9.6.

 

However, their offense surrendered the 6th fewest turnovers in the league and their defense finished 9th in takeaways. Importantly, Tyrod Taylor had the lowest interception percentage (1.0) of any quarterback in the *entire league*. Obviously, that had a material impact on the team's fortunes; teams so weak in so many major categories shouldn't have winning records.

 

They were seventh in turnover differential, and if you take away the statistical blip that was the first half of the Chargers game, they are in the top two or three.

 

**A tip of the cap to Hauschka too; his excellence was probably good for one additional win above expectations too. Signing him was like the Indians getting Andrew Miller in 2016. 


While I don't like to be Grinch-like and am, in fact, super enthused right now, I feel like I should mention something that concerns me.


Someone (PFF?) once did an analysis that determined that turnover differential is a stat that doesn't typically sustain from year to year.  

 

Teams that are statistically good (or  bad) on offense or defense are likely to be good (or bad) the following year.  Turnover differential, on the other hand, seems to go up and down almost randomly from season to season.  

 

If we want to continue earning playoff berths, we're going to have to become proficient at something less fickle than turnovers.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:


While I don't like to be Grinch-like and am, in fact, super enthused right now, I feel like I should mention something that concerns me.


Someone (PFF?) once did an analysis that determined that turnover differential is a stat that doesn't typically sustain from year to year.  

 

Teams that are statistically good (or  bad) on offense or defense are likely to be good (or bad) the following year.  Turnover differential, on the other hand, seems to go up and down almost randomly from season to season.  

 

If we want to continue earning playoff berths, we're going to have to become proficient at something less fickle than turnovers.  

The Bills' turnover differential in recent history (Going back to when they became a run-heavy team post-Gailey):

 

2013: +3

 

2014: +7

 

2015: +6

 

2016: +6

 

2017: +9

 

They were -13 in 2012.

Edited by dave mcbride
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:


While I don't like to be Grinch-like and am, in fact, super enthused right now, I feel like I should mention something that concerns me.


Someone (PFF?) once did an analysis that determined that turnover differential is a stat that doesn't typically sustain from year to year.  

 

Teams that are statistically good (or  bad) on offense or defense are likely to be good (or bad) the following year.  Turnover differential, on the other hand, seems to go up and down almost randomly from season to season.  

 

If we want to continue earning playoff berths, we're going to have to become proficient at something less fickle than turnovers.  

Just enjoy the playoff game and stop worrying about stupid ****.  They made it.  Who cares how they made it?  This team will be better next year than this and will continue to improve and be consistent as long as McDermott is HC.  This team was not supposed to make the playoffs.  People were picking them to win 4 or 5 games.  They won 9 and made the playoffs in the first year of this new Coach/GM tandom.  I am extremely optimistic about the future of this team, regardless of turnover ratio or any other statistic.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills' turnover differential in recent history (Going back to when they became a run-heavy team post-Gailey):

 

2013: +3

 

2014: +7

 

2015: +6

 

2016: +6

 

2017: +9

 

They were -13 in 2012.

 

I'm not sure this invalidates my point but it is interesting we keep finishing with positive differentials despite changes in scheme and personnel.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills were statistically bad or at best mediocre in virtually every category except one: turnovers. They were 6th in raw rushing yardage, but only because they ran it so much. They were actually just 14th in rushing ypa after finishing first last year. Their pythagorean (statistically expected) record was 6.4-9.6.

 

However, their offense surrendered the 6th fewest turnovers in the league and their defense finished 9th in takeaways. Importantly, Tyrod Taylor had the lowest interception percentage (1.0) of any quarterback in the *entire league*. Obviously, that had a material impact on the team's fortunes; teams so weak in so many major categories shouldn't have winning records.

 

They were seventh in turnover differential, and if you take away the statistical blip that was the first half of the Chargers game, they are in the top two or three.

 

**A tip of the cap to Hauschka too; his excellence was probably good for one additional win above expectations too. Signing him was like the Indians getting Andrew Miller in 2016. 

 

And the Chargers deciding to go with the Korean kicker over Lambo may have cost them at least 1 win.  

 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

And the Chargers deciding to go with the Korean kicker over Lambo may have cost them at least 1 win.  

 

Blair Walsh (Hauschka's replacement) probably cost the Seahawks a full game too overall. He wasn't the full reason they lost yesterday, but he missed a go-ahead 48 yard FG with 30 seconds left yesterday. He was shaky all year -- 72.4 percent.

Edited by dave mcbride
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

Someone is a unhappy camper lol.

 

Thanks, Marvin, Dalton and Boyd.

 

This is the dumbest TAKE ever.but,I expected it. We made the playoffs, but we still suck and are just lucky. So dumb

1 hour ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

Someone is a unhappy camper lol.

 

Thanks, Marvin, Dalton and Boyd.

 

This is the dumbest TAKE ever.but,I expected it. We made the playoffs, but we still suck and are just lucky. So dumb

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

I really hope so man. I have a feeling Marrone is going to be conservative as hell and just try to pound the rock against our D though. 

This is great stuff to be chatting about though for the first time in along time.

 

Most def. We have a few young ballhawks back there and with Bortles playing as shakey as he does sometimes, Marrone is gonna Marrone. Its gonna come down to, 1. can we run on Jax and 2. stop them from running on us.  Neither Bortles or Tyrod are QBs built to play from behind. 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Last I checked, teams won games by having more points than the other team, and made the playoffs by having one of the top 6 records in the conference. 

 

You don't get in with style points because you have a QB who throws for 300 yards a game or a WR who led the league in catches. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills were statistically bad or at best mediocre in virtually every category except one: turnovers. They were 6th in raw rushing yardage, but only because they ran it so much. They were actually just 14th in rushing ypa after finishing first last year. Their pythagorean (statistically expected) record was 6.4-9.6.

 

However, their offense surrendered the 6th fewest turnovers in the league and their defense finished 9th in takeaways. Importantly, Tyrod Taylor had the lowest interception percentage (1.0) of any quarterback in the *entire league*. Obviously, that had a material impact on the team's fortunes; teams so weak in so many major categories shouldn't have winning records.

 

They were seventh in turnover differential, and if you take away the statistical blip that was the first half of the Chargers game, they are in the top two or three.

 

**A tip of the cap to Hauschka too; his excellence was probably good for one additional win above expectations too. Signing him was like the Indians getting Andrew Miller in 2016. 

 

So?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills were statistically bad or at best mediocre in virtually every category except one: turnovers. They were 6th in raw rushing yardage, but only because they ran it so much. They were actually just 14th in rushing ypa after finishing first last year. Their pythagorean (statistically expected) record was 6.4-9.6.

 

However, their offense surrendered the 6th fewest turnovers in the league and their defense finished 9th in takeaways. Importantly, Tyrod Taylor had the lowest interception percentage (1.0) of any quarterback in the *entire league*. Obviously, that had a material impact on the team's fortunes; teams so weak in so many major categories shouldn't have winning records.

 

They were seventh in turnover differential, and if you take away the statistical blip that was the first half of the Chargers game, they are in the top two or three.

 

**A tip of the cap to Hauschka too; his excellence was probably good for one additional win above expectations too. Signing him was like the Indians getting Andrew Miller in 2016. 

Loser type of post,  most are thrilled to death that we are in and you complain.  Had we not made it you would have been bitching about our curse,  you make your owns breaks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

Loser type of post,  most are thrilled to death that we are in and you complain.  Had we not made it you would have been bitching about our curse,  you make your owns breaks.

Actually there were plenty of posters hoping for a 4-12 season and to trust the process.

 

Many wanted Peterman as the QB earlier and no part of the playoffs, because they had so much confidence in McDermott & McBeane......  

 

Too lazy to find them but they were continual complaints about Tyrod and that he may screw it all up and get the Bills in the playoffs and they were unhappy......

 

Stating facts and statistical #'s is quote interesting.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Dalton said:

So turnovers are luck and can not be coached.  Technique, film study and positional play have no impact.  Interesting theory.

Pretty sure Peterman agrees with you on that one.

 

The differential was a statistical anomaly and and moreso a reflection of Tyrod holding on to the ball and being conservative on offense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Turnovers--the only reason the bills made the playoffs

 

The Bills were statistically bad or at best mediocre in virtually every category except one: turnovers. They were 6th in raw rushing yardage, but only because they ran it so much. They were actually just 14th in rushing ypa after finishing first last year. Their pythagorean (statistically expected) record was 6.4-9.6.

 

However, their offense surrendered the 6th fewest turnovers in the league and their defense finished 9th in takeaways. Importantly, Tyrod Taylor had the lowest interception percentage (1.0) of any quarterback in the *entire league*. Obviously, that had a material impact on the team's fortunes; teams so weak in so many major categories shouldn't have winning records.

 

They were seventh in turnover differential, and if you take away the statistical blip that was the first half of the Chargers game, they are in the top two or three.

 

**A tip of the cap to Hauschka too; his excellence was probably good for one additional win above expectations too. Signing him was like the Indians getting Andrew Miller in 2016. 

Turnovers--the only reason the..(insert any NFL team name)..made the playoffs.

 

says every NFL team who ever made the playoffs or missed the playoffs.

Edited by cba fan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

Loser type of post,  most are thrilled to death that we are in and you complain.  Had we not made it you would have been bitching about our curse,  you make your owns breaks.

I suggest reading what I wrote and my second post in the thread. Or are we supposed to dispense with any analysis at all and simply shout down anyone who brings in some numbers?  This isn't a celebratory instagram site.

 

and I don't kvetch about "curses", so I don't know where you're coming from with that.

38 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

This is the dumbest TAKE ever.but,I expected it. We made the playoffs, but we still suck and are just lucky. So dumb

 

This is the dumbest TAKE ever.but,I expected it. We made the playoffs, but we still suck and are just lucky. So dumb

????

Edited by dave mcbride
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Correct, look down by Kizer and Simien 

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?statisticCategory=PASSING

 

Ravens 9-7 Cowboys 9-7 Chargers 9-7 Seahawks 9-7 Lions 9-7.

 

Lions stink but we are awesome.  

 

 

 

Made me look.

And what did I find?

 

Taylor is 18th in the NFL by the league's passer rating, just ahead of Dak Prescott, Derek Carr, and (yes) Andy Dalton. He sits just behind Matt Ryan.

 

Of course all those other quarterbacks have much more to work with. We can only imagine Taylor playing behind Dak's o-line, throwing to Derek or Matt's targets, or having a deep threat like Green again.

Edited by grb
  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills were statistically bad or at best mediocre in virtually every category except one: turnovers. They were 6th in raw rushing yardage, but only because they ran it so much. They were actually just 14th in rushing ypa after finishing first last year. Their pythagorean (statistically expected) record was 6.4-9.6.

 

However, their offense surrendered the 6th fewest turnovers in the league and their defense finished 9th in takeaways. Importantly, Tyrod Taylor had the lowest interception percentage (1.0) of any quarterback in the *entire league*. Obviously, that had a material impact on the team's fortunes; teams so weak in so many major categories shouldn't have winning records.

 

They were seventh in turnover differential, and if you take away the statistical blip that was the first half of the Chargers game, they are in the top two or three.

 

**A tip of the cap to Hauschka too; his excellence was probably good for one additional win above expectations too. Signing him was like the Indians getting Andrew Miller in 2016. 

 

Found this pretty interesting:

 

"Last year, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. And from 2007 to 2016, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. In the decade of the ’70s, when turnover rates were much higher, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. From 1950 to 2016, the average winning percentage of teams that won the turnover battle was 78%, too."

 

http://www.footballperspective.com/winning-the-turnover-battle/

 

Really, it's pretty amazing how that percentage hasn't changed at all when you consider all of the changes in the league over that time. People can also downplay Taylor's limited turnovers all they want, but the stats don't lie. I'm going to do a breakdown shortly of all QBs with 30+ games played over the past 3 years to see their turnovers per game (including INTs and Fumbles). My assumption is that Taylor will be at least top 10, and likely top 5. 

  • Like (+1) 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, DaBills51 said:

 

Found this pretty interesting:

 

"Last year, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. And from 2007 to 2016, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. In the decade of the ’70s, when turnover rates were much higher, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. From 1950 to 2016, the average winning percentage of teams that won the turnover battle was 78%, too."

 

http://www.footballperspective.com/winning-the-turnover-battle/

 

Really, it's pretty amazing how that percentage hasn't changed at all when you consider all of the changes in the league over that time. People can also downplay Taylor's limited turnovers all they want, but the stats don't lie. I'm going to do a breakdown shortly of all QBs with 30+ games played over the past 3 years to see their turnovers per game (including INTs and Fumbles). My assumption is that Taylor will be at least top 10, and likely top 5. 

That's awesome! Good find.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Biggest reason we made the playoffs:

 

Turnover differential -- QB who does not throw INTs, and a RB who rarely fumbles. Not turning the ball over is our offense's biggest strength. It's not sexy but it is effective, especially when you have an elite secondary like we do. IIRC, Hyde and Poyer both have 5 INTs, plus the outstanding play from Tre'Davious White. This is the biggest reason the Bills won 9 games.

 

Biggest reason we almost did not make the playoffs:

 

Lack of talent -- Outside of the secondary, every position on the roster is thin.

 

RB -- Keep McCoy, and our FA pick-ups have been decent, but we need a younger stud RB to split carries with Shady in 2018.

 

QB -- Keep Tyrod, but draft for the franchise guy, and bring in a veteran QB2 like Fitz. When Tyrod struggles, or if he's unwilling to take chances in a 4th quarter situation, take him out. But his game-managing is part of the biggest reason we won games, and that is valuable. Go into Training Camp with four QBs -- Tyrod, Fitz-type, Peterman, and rookie -- and keep the best 3, then trade the one you don't want for his value.

 

WR / TE -- I think we are set after the Benjamin trade... assuming Matthews doesn't return, which I don't think he's really a good fit here even though I really liked him in Philly, you need another guy like Thompson -- a true downfield threat.

 

OL -- we need some help on the interior, but we're not in terrible shape. Eric Wood is old & not good, Incognito is old & his play is declining, and starting guys like Vlad Ducasse and Jordan Mills isn't ideal. If you believe the trade rumors, it seems like the organization wants to move on from Cordy but he's the best player on the OL so I hope they keep him, and Dion Dawkins looked good. Need more talent, tho.

 

DL -- we need talent across the board. Kyle is done after this year, god bless him. Hughes had a down year in sacks and pressure, but at least he cut down on the penalties. Shaq Lawson didn't impress, wonder if he would be better suited for OLB? 

 

LB -- Matt Milano looks great. Preston Brown is solid, as was Lorenzo. But going to need at least one new starter here.

 

Secondary -- best position on the team, we're pretty set, just add some depth.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After suffering three straight blowouts we had I thought of this quote by Parcells.

 

"I talked to the team a lot about staying power. You never find out if you have that until you've been beaten down a few times."

 

Point differential aside, this team did a great job of staying focused after the Chargers game and McDermott is a large reason for that.

Edited by Doc Brown
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, DaBills51 said:

 

Found this pretty interesting:

 

"Last year, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. And from 2007 to 2016, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. In the decade of the ’70s, when turnover rates were much higher, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. From 1950 to 2016, the average winning percentage of teams that won the turnover battle was 78%, too."

 

http://www.footballperspective.com/winning-the-turnover-battle/

 

Really, it's pretty amazing how that percentage hasn't changed at all when you consider all of the changes in the league over that time. People can also downplay Taylor's limited turnovers all they want, but the stats don't lie. I'm going to do a breakdown shortly of all QBs with 30+ games played over the past 3 years to see their turnovers per game (including INTs and Fumbles). My assumption is that Taylor will be at least top 10, and likely top 5. 

 

 

I brought this up in a thread earlier in the week........it's the most broadly accurate stat wrt wins and losses.   Add time-tested now.

 

Some years certain stats will be more representative of the playoff teams........but over the long haul not turning the ball over and collecting turnovers on D is the simplest recipe for winning games.

 

The Bills were GREAT at not turning the ball over and very good at getting turnovers this season.......that's why they are in.:thumbsup:

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...