Josh Allen a Raw Jim Kelly?

[Bangarang]

He’s trash. He’s got great size, a really good arm and is a good athlete. That’s pretty much it. He looks great on paper but his accuracy is horrendous and his decision making is poor. It’s a hard no from me. He’s EJ Manuel without the talent around him.

[26CornerBlitz]

The talent is there for sure. 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

37 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

He’s trash. He’s got great size, a really good arm and is a good athlete. That’s pretty much it. He looks great on paper but his accuracy is horrendous and his decision making is poor. It’s a hard no from me. He’s EJ Manuel without the talent around him.

 

Really?  I hope he decides to play in the senior bowl.  I really want him to be Buffalo’s Ben Roethlisberger for some reason...

[Ittakestime]

44 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

He’s trash. He’s got great size, a really good arm and is a good athlete. That’s pretty much it. He looks great on paper but his accuracy is horrendous and his decision making is poor. It’s a hard no from me. He’s EJ Manuel without the talent around him.

 

I tend to agree. First read QB that leaves pocket too much. He is a major project. 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

8 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

 

I tend to agree. First read QB that leaves pocket too much. He is a major project. 

 

I don’t know enough to disagree with you, but after seeing him today this is disappointing to hear.  His arm really is unreal.  Which prospects do you like?

[JaCrispy]

56 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

He’s trash. He’s got great size, a really good arm and is a good athlete. That’s pretty much it. He looks great on paper but his accuracy is horrendous and his decision making is poor. It’s a hard no from me. He’s EJ Manuel without the talent around him.

Wouldn’t go as far as to say he’s trash...but everything else you said is pretty spot on 

Edited December 22, 2017 by JaCrispy

[hemma]

Mayfield has committed to play in the Senior Bowl.

 

I like it.  Shows he's not afraid to jump right in the ring and show what he's got.  

[BuffaloRebound]

If Trubisky can go in the top 3, Allen certainly can too.  Not sure I'd trade up for him, but I'd take a chance on him with one of our firsts.  I'd trade both firsts for Rosen or Darnold.  

Edited December 23, 2017 by BuffaloRebound

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, hemma said:

Mayfield has committed to play in the Senior Bowl.

 

I like it.  Shows he's not afraid to jump right in the ring and show what he's got.  

Smart decision. Gives him a chance to get ahead in the interview process which is weighed very heavily. Good move by his agent. 

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, hemma said:

Mayfield has committed to play in the Senior Bowl.

 

I like it.  Shows he's not afraid to jump right in the ring and show what he's got.  

Great decision. Could potentially change my opinion of him.

[billspro]

4 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I don’t know....I’ve seen very little of Allen this year.  He looks really good to me right now.  What an arm!!

 

He has the arm strength, accuracy, and has played in a pro system in college. He looks like Big Ben when he is on. He has played bad against top competition but I think it is a product of the talent around him, then frustration later in the game that leads to ints. When I watch he has no one to throw to. 

4 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

I like Rudolph a bit more than most as well. I was watching someone on YouTube analyze their game with Oklahoma, and Mayfield is making throws and there’s no one near him. Rudolph is throwing to guys and they are covered. He makes the hard throws look easy, the sideline passes, the deep balls, and I think as he gains experience in an nfl system he has enough touch on the ball to make those simple dump off type throws in the 5-10 yd range as well

 

I would much prefer Allen over Rudolph. In my opinion Allen has much better accuracy and Allen plays in a pro-style offence. Rudolph really struggles to move in the pocket and has trouble when his guys are not wide open. I think there are 5 1st round Qbs: Darnold, Mayfield, Jackson, Rosen, Allen (in that order).

[LEBills]

He is not Jim Kelly but Josh Allen is great. 

 

Wyoming has consistently been one of the bottom feeders of Div 1 football. All the sudden, last year they exploded from last place in the Mountain West to first, unseating perennial powerhouse Boise State...The reason was Craig Bohl starting to right the program, but mostly Josh Allen.

 

This season, Allen struggled after losing 5 offensive starters to the NFL. He probably was the only player who would play on Iowa or Oregon if you transposed Wyoming’s players to those teams’ rosters. Yet, he still won 8 games this year and Wyoming went 0-2 when he was out with an injury including a loss to maybe the worst D1 team this year, San Jose State.

 

People are worried about his stats because they don’t look great. However, Bohl runs a pro style system with a lot of down field, difficult throws. These aren’t stat inflating bubble screens he is attempting like Osweiler used to throw at ASU and it also doesn’t help when your playmakers drop passes.

 

Allen isn’t totally blameless in this season. He does throw bad balls and interceptions, he is not always great feeling pressure, sometimes he looks overmatched. 

 

But here are the positives:

1. The best, strongest arm I have ever seen.

2. Takes snaps from center and plays in a pro-style system that produced Carson Wentz.

3. Fiery and competitive - not Baker Mayfield but more like a tempered Phillip Rivers

4. Very used to playing in cold weather

5. Great throwing on the run with bootlegs just like the system Dennison likes to run.

 

To wrap up, I like Darnold better. However, Allen would be a great choice for Buffalo - even early in the first round. He can be a franchise QB.

[TigerJ]

If the Bills were to draft Josh Allen, I don't think they would plan at all to start him until at least 2019.  I think the free agency period will tell us if he remains a possibility.  If the Bills sign a veteran who looks like a starter, he probably will be.  If it is for 2 year or longer contract, I don't think Allen will be drafted.  If Buffalo drafts a bandaid veteran ( a guy like Josh McCown, I could see them drafting Josh Allen, then letting Peterman and that veteran compete to start in 2018.  They probably wouldn't do it in the first round, however.  I just don't think Beane is looking for projects that early.

[The Now Moment]

58 minutes ago, LEBills said:

He is not Jim Kelly but Josh Allen is great. 

 

Wyoming has consistently been one of the bottom feeders of Div 1 football. All the sudden, last year they exploded from last place in the Mountain West to first, unseating perennial powerhouse Boise State...The reason was Craig Bohl starting to right the program, but mostly Josh Allen.

 

This season, Allen struggled after losing 5 offensive starters to the NFL. He probably was the only player who would play on Iowa or Oregon if you transposed Wyoming’s players to those teams’ rosters. Yet, he still won 8 games this year and Wyoming went 0-2 when he was out with an injury including a loss to maybe the worst D1 team this year, San Jose State.

 

People are worried about his stats because they don’t look great. However, Bohl runs a pro style system with a lot of down field, difficult throws. These aren’t stat inflating bubble screens he is attempting like Osweiler used to throw at ASU and it also doesn’t help when your playmakers drop passes.

 

Allen isn’t totally blameless in this season. He does throw bad balls and interceptions, he is not always great feeling pressure, sometimes he looks overmatched. 

 

But here are the positives:

1. The best, strongest arm I have ever seen.

2. Takes snaps from center and plays in a pro-style system that produced Carson Wentz.

3. Fiery and competitive - not Baker Mayfield but more like a tempered Phillip Rivers

4. Very used to playing in cold weather

5. Great throwing on the run with bootlegs just like the system Dennison likes to run.

 

To wrap up, I like Darnold better. However, Allen would be a great choice for Buffalo - even early in the first round. He can be a franchise QB.

I agree with everything said here.  Nice analysis.

[billspro]

1 hour ago, LEBills said:

He is not Jim Kelly but Josh Allen is great. 

 

Wyoming has consistently been one of the bottom feeders of Div 1 football. All the sudden, last year they exploded from last place in the Mountain West to first, unseating perennial powerhouse Boise State...The reason was Craig Bohl starting to right the program, but mostly Josh Allen.

 

This season, Allen struggled after losing 5 offensive starters to the NFL. He probably was the only player who would play on Iowa or Oregon if you transposed Wyoming’s players to those teams’ rosters. Yet, he still won 8 games this year and Wyoming went 0-2 when he was out with an injury including a loss to maybe the worst D1 team this year, San Jose State.

 

People are worried about his stats because they don’t look great. However, Bohl runs a pro style system with a lot of down field, difficult throws. These aren’t stat inflating bubble screens he is attempting like Osweiler used to throw at ASU and it also doesn’t help when your playmakers drop passes.

 

Allen isn’t totally blameless in this season. He does throw bad balls and interceptions, he is not always great feeling pressure, sometimes he looks overmatched. 

 

But here are the positives:

1. The best, strongest arm I have ever seen.

2. Takes snaps from center and plays in a pro-style system that produced Carson Wentz.

3. Fiery and competitive - not Baker Mayfield but more like a tempered Phillip Rivers

4. Very used to playing in cold weather

5. Great throwing on the run with bootlegs just like the system Dennison likes to run.

 

To wrap up, I like Darnold better. However, Allen would be a great choice for Buffalo - even early in the first round. He can be a franchise QB.

great post

[dulles]

Allen looked decent in the first quarter of the game today! I didn't catch it live and I've only been able to see the first quarter so far.  Pretty impressive!

[The Now Moment]

3 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

If Trubisky can go in the top 3, Allen certainly can too.  Not sure I'd trade up for him, but I'd take a chance on him with one of our firsts.  I'd trade both firsts for Rosen or Darnold.  

You'd need a lot more than that to get either of those two.  We are trading up from the twenties remember.

[Andy1]

Allen has so much potential. With the right coaching, I think he could be great. HIs arm strength is in a different class from anyone else in the draft. He is just very raw and needs developmental time before he sees the field. Whatever team drafts him needs the right coach to develop him. I just wonder if that coach is on the Bills. 

[Mat68]

4 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

After those 3 first quarter Tds it was it.  He could have pulled a Deon Sanders at the combine and just took off the rest of of tje game.  Those 3 passes are all they need to see to go top 10 probably top 5.

2 hours ago, TigerJ said:

If the Bills were to draft Josh Allen, I don't think they would plan at all to start him until at least 2019.  I think the free agency period will tell us if he remains a possibility.  If the Bills sign a veteran who looks like a starter, he probably will be.  If it is for 2 year or longer contract, I don't think Allen will be drafted.  If Buffalo drafts a bandaid veteran ( a guy like Josh McCown, I could see them drafting Josh Allen, then letting Peterman and that veteran compete to start in 2018.  They probably wouldn't do it in the first round, however.  I just don't think Beane is looking for projects that early.

Josh Allen beats out peterman tomorrow and after 2 preseason games creates a groundswell of support to beat out any fringe starter/ backup.  Only option would be to have Taylor and Allen battle it out.  Tie goes to the rookie.  I put Allen's potential the highest of any qb.  Seems like the perfect northern qb.  Not a fan of bringing a southern california kid to Buffalo. 

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Buffalo30 said:

We are trading up from the twenties remember.

 

We'll be trading up from #32.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

11 hours ago, Lenigmusx said:

I find it very likely that Josh Allen QB from Wyoming will be one of our two 1st round selections. He has the most physical ability by far of all the prospects but is also very, very raw. His arm strength and gunslinger mentality along with the chip on his shoulder remind of young JK. Obviously Miami U and national titles helped mold Jim. Josh Allen does not have much experience and Wyoming is small scale but I still think his upside could be great. What vet could mentor him? He and a Tyrod are Apples and Oranges. Bradford might be an OK choice in this case. 

 

He could be, has more talent than most NFL QBs, but he had a lot of bad games and makes me really nervous as a prospect.

 

 

[Andy1]

This is why I too am hesitant about him. Drafting his is betting on him that he can out it all together and be a consistent steady QB. Although every rookie QB has to do that to some degree. Or, he could end up being a Jay Cutler type player. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

15 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

This is why I too am hesitant about him. Drafting his is betting on him that he can out it all together and be a consistent steady QB. Although every rookie QB has to do that to some degree. Or, he could end up being a Jay Cutler type player. 

 

Maybe we do a double like the Redskins did and draft 2 QBs.

 

 

Edited December 23, 2017 by Buffalo Barbarian

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

I think alot of people are undervaluing QB Lamar Jackson, I don't see much hype for him yet but you'll start hearing his name more and more as the draft rolls around. I'm not usually a fan of dual QB's but this guy really looks like a difference maker (I thought the same about Watson also), the comparison to Michael Vick coming out is fair but Vick didn't have the accuracy and touch that Jackson has, just imagine an improved Michael Vick in his prime on our roster. He will need to beef up a bit more but that doesn't really concern me, it's always injury risk with dual threats but he seems like he has improved in folds standing in the pocket where he's cool, calm and collected this season and throwing over 60% comp, 25 passing TD, 17 rushing TD, this is the guy I envision Buffalo trading up for, comparing him to Tyrod Taylor would be laughable since he clearly gets the ball out quickly, throws into tight spaces and stands in the pocket with poise but these are just my own observations and opinions. No way would we get him where were drafting so I can only see a trade up scenario maybe with the 49ers or Browns second first round pick.

[mannc]

12 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

 

He struggled hard against TCU and Oklahoma.  Very inconsistent

Wait, Rudolph struggled against Oklahoma? What did he put up, 55 points?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Just finished the game and he looked much better, more like last year. I think he put himself back into the first round with the way he threw the ball ( that shoulder must have really bothered him) and he ability to scramble and keep plays alive.

 

 

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

I think alot of people are undervaluing QB Lamar Jackson, I don't see much hype for him yet but you'll start hearing his name more and more as the draft rolls around. I'm not usually a fan of dual QB's but this guy really looks like a difference maker (I thought the same about Watson also), the comparison to Michael Vick coming out is fair but Vick didn't have the accuracy and touch that Jackson has, just imagine an improved Michael Vick in his prime on our roster. He will need to beef up a bit more but that doesn't really concern me, it's always injury risk with dual threats but he seems like he has improved in folds standing in the pocket where he's cool, calm and collected this season and throwing over 60% comp, 25 passing TD, 17 rushing TD, this is the guy I envision Buffalo trading up for, comparing him to Tyrod Taylor would be laughable since he clearly gets the ball out quickly, throws into tight spaces and stands in the pocket with poise but these are just my own observations and opinions. No way would we get him where were drafting so I can only see a trade up scenario maybe with the 49ers or Browns second first round pick.

 

Because he has been compared to Tyrod and no one wants to see that. We want a a passer first, run second QB who can play in the pocket. Basically Aaron Rodgers who can run but only as a last resort and not after the first read.

 

 

[mannc]

7 hours ago, LEBills said:

He is not Jim Kelly but Josh Allen is great. 

 

Wyoming has consistently been one of the bottom feeders of Div 1 football. All the sudden, last year they exploded from last place in the Mountain West to first, unseating perennial powerhouse Boise State...The reason was Craig Bohl starting to right the program, but mostly Josh Allen.

 

This season, Allen struggled after losing 5 offensive starters to the NFL. He probably was the only player who would play on Iowa or Oregon if you transposed Wyoming’s players to those teams’ rosters. Yet, he still won 8 games this year and Wyoming went 0-2 when he was out with an injury including a loss to maybe the worst D1 team this year, San Jose State.

 

People are worried about his stats because they don’t look great. However, Bohl runs a pro style system with a lot of down field, difficult throws. These aren’t stat inflating bubble screens he is attempting like Osweiler used to throw at ASU and it also doesn’t help when your playmakers drop passes.

 

Allen isn’t totally blameless in this season. He does throw bad balls and interceptions, he is not always great feeling pressure, sometimes he looks overmatched. 

 

But here are the positives:

1. The best, strongest arm I have ever seen.

2. Takes snaps from center and plays in a pro-style system that produced Carson Wentz.

3. Fiery and competitive - not Baker Mayfield but more like a tempered Phillip Rivers

4. Very used to playing in cold weather

5. Great throwing on the run with bootlegs just like the system Dennison likes to run.

 

To wrap up, I like Darnold better. However, Allen would be a great choice for Buffalo - even early in the first round. He can be a franchise QB.

Excellent post.  Thanks for the information.  So much better than “he’s trash” or “ he sucks”.  (I think Darnold is a bust waiting to happen, by the way.)

Edited December 23, 2017 by mannc

[LEBills]

16 minutes ago, mannc said:

Excellent post.  Thanks for the information.  So much better than “he’s trash” or “ he sucks”.  (I think Darnold is a bust waiting to happen, by the way.)

To each his own, my friend. I would be so happy getting Allen. But Darnold, I just have no doubts about at all. I think he is a slam dunk physically/mentally and another kid that just fits in Buffalo. His dad is a plumber - albeit for medical gases. A big armed, stocky kid of a plumber is the type of QB that fits in Buffalo imo.

 

Allen could be Big Ben, Darnold will be what Andrew Luck has been (minus the injuries), IMO. When I’m more rested I’ll break down Darnold more.

[Klaista2k]

17 hours ago, SaviorPeterman said:

Josh Allen is the biggest Boom/Bust QB prospect in this draft and based on the Bills history with similar players (Losman/Manuel) I would tend to stay far away unless he's available in round 3 or later and the risk is minimized.

 

Regardless there is no question this kid has serious talent and he's drawn a lot of interesting comparisons in the scouting world. In fact I was talking about the this year's QB with a source of mine in the Pac12 the other day and he said Allen has the potential (emphasis on potential) to be the next Big Ben but with a better arm. Same source also said he could be the next Jake Locker too.

 

 

 

I caught some of the game and wow I gotta say Allen looked pretty damn good.

 

 

[Lenigmusx]

After watching his highlights I would take him with one of 1st round picks. 

He could be a beast throwing through the wind in the Ralph, (New Era)

[The Now Moment]

5 hours ago, mannc said:

Wait, Rudolph struggled against Oklahoma? What did he put up, 55 points?

He had a 51 completion percentage and most of the incompletions were on him and he had 2 picks.  His receivers went off in the spread system that game.  He showed poor footwork and many other deficiencies.  Don't just look at the point totals

17 hours ago, Bangarang said:

He’s trash. He’s got great size, a really good arm and is a good athlete. That’s pretty much it. He looks great on paper but his accuracy is horrendous and his decision making is poor. It’s a hard no from me. He’s EJ Manuel without the talent around him.

He has the opposite arm that EJ Manuel had.  Manuel had no zip...this guy has Aaron Rodgers zip and that's not a hyperbole

[Woodman19]

Too many people expect a fully polished and finished product at QB, but in terms of raw tools you aren't doing much better the middle of the first round than someone like Allen.

[mannc]

38 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

He had a 51 completion percentage and most of the incompletions were on him and he had 2 picks.  His receivers went off in the spread system that game.  He showed poor footwork and many other deficiencies.  Don't just look at the point totals

 

Look, I’m a Rudolph skeptic, too, but the OK game is not the one to use to make your case that Rudolph is not all that.   The Texas game, on the other hand, is Exhibit A.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Max Fischer]

I'd be very happy if the Bills took Josh Allen with a 1st.  I can easily see Bradford, Allen and Peterman competing in camp. 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

 

[Bangarang]

2 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

He has the opposite arm that EJ Manuel had.  Manuel had no zip...this guy has Aaron Rodgers zip and that's not a hyperbole

 

I’m not saying he has the same kind of arm that EJ had. What I’m saying is that much like EJ, they are prototypical QBs on paper but it doesn’t translate to their play on the field. You seem to like him more than me and that’s fine.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

.....guys I don't get to see college ball so I depend on assessments here....from what I'm seeing, and without mortgaging draft picks, if Darnold comes out, he's long gone.....and it sounds like the Rosen kid is as well and possibly Mayfield....seems like Allen and Rudolph may be in the next tier, say mid 1st round....if they were BOTH there with Bflo on the board, who is the pick?...........

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

8 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Just finished the game and he looked much better, more like last year. I think he put himself back into the first round with the way he threw the ball ( that shoulder must have really bothered him) and he ability to scramble and keep plays alive.

 

 

 

Because he has been compared to Tyrod and no one wants to see that. We want a a passer first, run second QB who can play in the pocket. Basically Aaron Rodgers who can run but only as a last resort and not after the first read.

 

 

 

He's been compared to Tyrod Taylor by you, no expert that I read sees Tyrod Taylor in him, it's more of a Michael Vick with a better pocket presence and accuracy. Like I've stated I'm not a huge dual threat QB fan but this guy seems like he's a difference maker with both his arm and his legs.