Josh Allen a Raw Jim Kelly?

[Max Fischer]

This is how I feel about it. My grade on most players starts with how I feel about the coaching staff and talent evaluators. Right now, I have full trust for the McBeane team and I’m excited what they can do in the off season.  If they pick Allen, I’m all for it; Cousins, great; Bradford, cool . . .

[Buffalo716]

11 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...here is my conundrum and I will have to depend on your expertise as far as collegiate candidates (don't get to see college ball unfortunately).....in my view, THE 1st test is mental as in grasping the speed & complexity of the NFL level game, reading defenses, reads/progressions/spotting receivers, and knowing when or if to pull it down and scramble....so far, I think Peterman has shown positive signs in those aspects while TT continues to struggle even after 7 years at this level.....TT trumps Peterman in the physical attributes segment of my assessment based on his wheels and scrambling ability......so if you could meld Peterman's mental attributes with a minimal portion of TT's physical attributes (could be trainable, but the mental aspect in my view is highly suspect), you could have a good guy on the roster....so what collegians come close to what I am advocating?.....nothing flashy, no Air Coryell/Fouts dreams, but a steady Eddie who can get us to the promised land?....

 

...LOL...just checkin'.............

 

Honeslty. Baker Mayfield checks those boxes.

 

He is cerebral on the field and has a high football IQ. Sees windows that others don't see and has a willingness to pull the trigger

 

he also has a strong arm and very good accuracy. He may not be the athlete TT is but he can definitely move around the pocket and deliver a strike

 

He is a rythem passer who plays with passion and can rally the troops.

 

Outside of being 5'11 or 6' with some character concerns, he displays the high level footbal IQ to operate a west coast rhythm offense very well

Edited December 22, 2017 by Buffalo716

[GoBills808]

Maybe a sauteed Jeff George.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Honeslty. Baker Mayfield checks those boxes.

 

He is cerebral on the field and has a high football IQ. Sees windows that others don't see and has a willingness to pull the trigger

 

he also has a strong arm and very good accuracy. He may not be the athlete TT is but he can definitely move around the pocket and deliver a strike

 

He is a rythem passer who plays with passion and can rally the troops.

 

Outside of being 5'11 or 6' with some character concerns, he displays the high level footbal IQ to operate a west coast rhythm offense very well

 

...so does that fit the McD model without sacrificing major draft capital or does this gang preserve capital and grab a middle of the road, yet trainable guy?.............

[CSBill]

52 minutes ago, McBean said:

 

Then what?

 

Great question. Anything besides #5 under Center next year and I’ll be happy.

 

Here we go, it wouldn’t be a TBD thread without a rip of TT. This gets old.

[Tsaikotic]

Walterfootball.com has a comparison for Mayfield I havent heard yet:

 

Player Comparison: Jeff Garcia. Mayfield is a rich-man's Jeff Garcia. His game is similar to Garcia's good years with the 49ers, except Mayfield is a better athlete than Garcia was and has a stronger arm than Garcia ever did. Also similar to Garcia, the intangibles are a mixed bag for Mayfield with some good and some bad. I think if Mayfield pans out in the NFL, he could be a better version of Garcia.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018bmayfield.php#WQ4uAUICPef1EUw3.99

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...so does that fit the McD model without sacrificing major draft capital or does this gang preserve capital and grab a middle of the road, yet trainable guy?.............

 

If Baker Mayfield is on the clock with our second first round pick I would select him.

 

Peyton Manning mooned a female physical trainer at Tennessee. He matured

 

I think Baker is a fiery competitor. Just like Phillip Rivers and Tom Brady. They are always in officials faces and nobody calls them out

 

I think Dennison wants a guy who can be a rythem passer in our offense. Because with shady being the guy you only have so many passing attempts a game

 

so you need to be able to start hot and find a rythem regardless of attempts 

 

Baker comes into the game in rythem and when I was watching him I wrote down that he can be a day 1 starter in a west coast system

 

he can operate Dennsions offense extremely well IMO

 

he has played a lot of football and has a great football IQ

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

If Baker Mayfield is on the clock with our second first round pick I would select him.

 

Peyton Manning mooned a female physical trainer at Tennessee. He matured

 

 

 

 

....LMAO!.....with all of these teachers having sex with students, I've re-enrolled as a high school freshman at age 64.....sounds like an opportunity to me, right??........

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....LMAO!.....with all of these teachers having sex with students, I've re-enrolled as a high school freshman at age 64.....sounds like an opportunity to me, right??........

 

100%

 

let me know how the results go... I can always use more education 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

I like what I’ve seen from him thus far in this game.  Gets the ball out quickly, nice compact delivery, and gets incredible velocity on his throws.  Seems to climb the pocket pretty well, and seems to keep his eyes up field.  That TD pass was an absolute frozen rope.  I need to see more.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

100%

 

let me know how the results go... I can always use more education 

 

...I pray the hold me back a couple of times...not the brightest bulb in the lighting store.....

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, McBean said:

 

 

In all all due respect, Central Michigan is no where elite. I don’t care if he throws for 500 yards and 8 TD’s today.

 

When he faced the big boys (Iowa and Oregon) this year, he looked worst than EJ Manuel in college.

 

For me, here’s my order of QB’s I want under Center next year...obviously wish list.

 

1. Darnold

2. Cousins

3. Rosen

 

 

I’m in the minority, but I want us to trade the house for Sam Darnold if he declares. The kid has everything you are looking for in a franchise QB.

I agree 100%....trade the entire draft 1-7 to get Darnold. We'll win the AFCE  for a decade. I also agree with your list but I'm not sold on Rosen and I've seen him play every snap.

Edited December 22, 2017 by LABILLBACKER

[Buffalo716]

Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...I pray the hold me back a couple of times...not the brightest bulb in the lighting store.....

 

I swear when I was in eighth grade they put a 18 year old dude in my class. I was 14

 

The tallest one in our grade was like 5'11, maybe 6'

 

one day this 6'8 giant walks in and we are like WTF

 

i was like well... I just lost my spot on the BBall team lol

 

he was gone within a week so I figured there was no way he was 14-15 lol

[WMDman]

I personally like the kid, I do think he’ll be one of our selections barring a trade up

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....what's your take on the Rudolph kid?......some pundits have him going in the 20's which would mean some draft capital preservation......maybe not flashy, but would you consider him?............

Like Rudolph a lot. If he fell to us I would strongly consider him. The Bills are basically in a mode where we need to draft a QB every year and discard the last guy who isn't panning out. The search for a qb has to be paramount to all other positions. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Like Rudolph a lot. If he fell to us I would strongly consider him. The Bills are basically in a mode where we need to draft a QB every year and discard the last guy who isn't panning out. The search for a qb has to be paramount to all other positions. 

 

...CERTAINLY appreciate your help as I do not get to watch college ball...thanks again bud...........

[H2o]

The boy is on fire today

[Johnny Hammersticks]

I don’t know....I’ve seen very little of Allen this year.  He looks really good to me right now.  What an arm!!

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

I swear when I was in eighth grade they put a 18 year old dude in my class. I was 14

 

The tallest one in our grade was like 5'11, maybe 6'

 

one day this 6'8 giant walks in and we are like WTF

 

i was like well... I just lost my spot on the BBall team lol

 

he was gone within a week so I figured there was no way he was 14-15 lol

 

....would that be BBall team or teacher's "ball team" you scoundrel??..........

[The Now Moment]

Anyone watching the Wyoming game? Allen has 3 tds in the first quarter.  One bullet on a deep slant, one right on the money while on the run and one deep rainbow down the field right in the wide receiver's arms.  Showing his talent in front of scouts today

6 minutes ago, H2o said:

The boy is on fire today

He's making money today

Edited December 22, 2017 by Buffalo30

[Ittakestime]

Allen is either on or off. Today he is on. He had another game like this where he looked incredible a month or so back. Wouldn't judge a QB on one or so game. He is still a project. I would take him if he fell to us in 20s, but he isn't a guy I am trading both 1sts for. If he played this good all year, then it would be a different story. 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....would that be BBall team or teacher's "ball team" you scoundrel??..........

 

That would be the basketball team 

 

i always had dreams of being pistol Pete...

 

and then I realized I was 5'10 so I stuck with football lol

[The Now Moment]

12 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Like Rudolph a lot. If he fell to us I would strongly consider him. The Bills are basically in a mode where we need to draft a QB every year and discard the last guy who isn't panning out. The search for a qb has to be paramount to all other positions. 

I guess the days of letting a QB develop for a year or two are gone?  KC did the smart thing and let Mahomes sit for a year to be groomed

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

That would be the basketball team 

 

i always had dreams of being pistol Pete...

 

and then I realized I was 5'10 so I stuck with football lol

...no doubt she wanted bigger...........

[Dkollidas]

1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said:

I guess the days of letting a QB develop for a year or two are gone?  KC did the smart thing and let Mahomes sit for a year to be groomed

 

I think the Bills will do the same. There will be so much QB movement this year we could end up with one of the Minnesota QB’s, McCarron if he’s available, possibly a guy like Alex Smith if he becomes available. 

[xRUSHx]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Mason Rudolph is an enigma...

 

He does have high end talent. Great size and he can spin the ball. Good to very good accuracy 

 

but his footwork has left a bit more to be desired. He tends to float balls when his footwork is off

 

and he operates from a true spread system. Numbers become inflated and receivers run wide open 

 

so I question if he can operate under center and perform 3-5 step drops on command

 

outside of his gimmicky offense and slight footwork problems he has everything you look for in a QB 

 

Size, toughness , arm talent, improvement year to tear

 

so I definitely think he falls into that 20-45 range and think he will get taken around there.

 

i would prefer him over Josh Allen 

Allen needs more work then Rudolph IMO. For one you can not teach accuracy and IMO Allen just does not seem like a kid that loves the game, I just feel like he is another Trent Edwards in the not really caring what happens type of attitude about football . Rudolph has the tools and just looks the part all the way around. Of course I like Rosen/Darnold more, in fact Mayfield is selling me more but to take Allen over Rudolph if the Bills do not move up I do not agree at all. IMO Rudolph is going to be a very good starter in the NFL while IMO Allen will be a full time backup possible starter in 2-3 years of development . I also do not like Jackson I am tired of the run first QB.

JMO on this post

Edited December 22, 2017 by xRUSHx

[26CornerBlitz]

 

 

[Mat68]

Allen has made himself some money with this game.  He has every tool you want.  A little raw but has the potential to be special.  If I was Buffalo i would move into the top 5 for him.  I think he is the clear number 3 behind Rosen and Darnold but not that far off.    

[The Now Moment]

5 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

 

I think the Bills will do the same. There will be so much QB movement this year we could end up with one of the Minnesota QB’s, McCarron if he’s available, possibly a guy like Alex Smith if he becomes available. 

I'd get a rookie and another vet and groom the youngin

[Dkollidas]

1 minute ago, xRUSHx said:

Allen needs more work then Rudolph IMO. For one you can not teach accuracy and IMO Allen just does not seem like a kid that loves the game, I just feel like he is another Trent Edwards in the not really caring what happens type of attitude about football . Rudolph has the tools and just looks the part all the way around. Of course I like Rosen/Darnold more, in fact Mayfield is selling me more but to take Allen over Rudolph if the Bills do not move up I do not agree at all. IMO Rudolph is going to be a very good starter in the NFL while IMO Allen will be a full time backup. I also do not like Jackson I am tired of the run first QB.

JMO on this post

I like Rudolph a bit more than most as well. I was watching someone on YouTube analyze their game with Oklahoma, and Mayfield is making throws and there’s no one near him. Rudolph is throwing to guys and they are covered. He makes the hard throws look easy, the sideline passes, the deep balls, and I think as he gains experience in an nfl system he has enough touch on the ball to make those simple dump off type throws in the 5-10 yd range as well

[The Now Moment]

2 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Allen has made himself some money with this game.  He has every tool you want.  A little raw but has the potential to be special.  If I was Buffalo i would move into the top 5 for him.  I think he is the clear number 3 behind Rosen and Darnold but not that far off.    

I agree with this.  I think he'd benefit from a year of sitting behind a vet too

3 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

I like Rudolph a bit more than most as well. I was watching someone on YouTube analyze their game with Oklahoma, and Mayfield is making throws and there’s no one near him. Rudolph is throwing to guys and they are covered. He makes the hard throws look easy, the sideline passes, the deep balls, and I think as he gains experience in an nfl system he has enough touch on the ball to make those simple dump off type throws in the 5-10 yd range as well

He struggled hard against TCU and Oklahoma.  Very inconsistent

[Dkollidas]

Exactly. That’s what I meant was to get a veteran to put in front of a rookie for a year, or possibly two. Someone like Bridgewater might become your franchise guy, but I wouldn’t be upset about that if he did

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

Allen needs more work then Rudolph IMO. For one you can not teach accuracy and IMO Allen just does not seem like a kid that loves the game, I just feel like he is another Trent Edwards in the not really caring what happens type of attitude about football . Rudolph has the tools and just looks the part all the way around. Of course I like Rosen/Darnold more, in fact Mayfield is selling me more but to take Allen over Rudolph if the Bills do not move up I do not agree at all. IMO Rudolph is going to be a very good starter in the NFL while IMO Allen will be a full time backup. I also do not like Jackson I am tired of the run first QB.

JMO on this post

 

I said that I like Rudolph more than Allen and that he's more polished

10 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...no doubt she wanted bigger...........

 

[xRUSHx]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

I said that I like Rudolph more than Allen and that he's more polished

Sorry man I must have misunderstood your post because I took it that you would take Allen over Rudolph if the choice was there.

Edit. I just re-read it, my bad man

Edited December 22, 2017 by xRUSHx

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

I said that I like Rudolph more than Allen and that he's more polished

 

....so Rudolph at 20ish wouldn't be a bad deal?...............

[Dkollidas]

1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said:

 

He struggled hard against TCU and Oklahoma.  Very inconsistent

All of the guys coming out have their inconsistencies. 

 

-Rosen forced things and put UCLA in bad positions when trying to do too much. 

 

-Darnold turned the ball over on an average of almost 1per game and had I believe 8 fumbles? That’s a real concern.

 

-Allen couldn’t complete 60% of his passes, played down against any real competition, and seems to have a tough time making the easy throws.

 

-Mayfield has had his issues not so much with his play, but with the off-field issues and the crotch-grabbing incident and the flag staking in Ohio St. And while people constantly complain about the system Rudolph plays in, Mayfield also plays in a similar spread system, so his numbers can be questioned as wel in that regard.

 

-Drew Lock lead the FBS in TD passes with 40+, but struggled with accuracy as he completed less than 60% of his passes, and seemed to put up big numbers against lesser opponents.

(Threw him in there because I believe there’s a decent chance he’ll come out as well).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Now Moment]

3 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

All of the guys coming out have their inconsistencies. 

 

-Rosen forced things and put UCLA in bad positions when trying to do too much. 

 

-Darnold turned the ball over on an average of almost 1per game and had I believe 8 fumbles? That’s a real concern.

 

-Allen couldn’t complete 60% of his passes, played down against any real competition, and seems to have a tough time making the easy throws.

 

-Mayfield has had his issues not so much with his play, but with the off-field issues and the crotch-grabbing incident and the flag staking in Ohio St. And while people constantly complain about the system Rudolph plays in, Mayfield also plays in a similar spread system, so his numbers can be questioned as wel in that regard.

 

-Drew Lock lead the FBS in TD passes with 40+, but struggled with accuracy as he completed less than 60% of his passes, and seemed to put up big numbers against lesser opponents.

(Threw him in there because I believe there’s a decent chance he’ll come out as well).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes but Rudolph is in a Mike Gundy system that inflates a QBs stats.  I've watched Rudolph play a lot and he completes a short pass that his receivers take for a touchdown and it inflates his stats.  Remember Brandon Weeden?? Yeah same system.  I know you know that.  He has footwork issues, lacks a big arm, and didn't show up in big games this year.  Put up absolute duds in a handful of games this year.  Not a big fan.  He doesn't excite me at all.  

 

Rosen is a great pocket passer who can hit the timing passes better than any of the other QBs.  His traits translate to the NFL the best.  

 

Darnold has had stuggles with turnovers but he's had some great NFL type throws.  With the right coaching, he'll be a star.  His Penn state game was eye-opening last year.  

 

Allen has no talent around him at all.  You can't just look at the stats with him.  Watching him play several games he's shown me a wow factor too often to pass on him.  He has the best arm in this class by a mile.  He certainly needs grooming and some time behind a vet but he can be great.

 

Mayfield has a bunch of questions and I'm not that high on him myself.  I think he's the fourth QB in this class.

 

I think Drew may come out but we will see.

[Dkollidas]

1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said:

Yes but Rudolph is in a Mike Gundy system that inflates a QBs stats.  I've watched Rudolph play a lot and he completes a short pass that his receivers take for a touchdown and it inflates his stats.  Remember Brandon Weeden?? Yeah same system.  I know you know that.  He has footwork issues, lacks a big arm, and didn't show up in big games this year.  Put up absolute duds in a handful of games this year.  Not a big fan.  He doesn't excite me at all.  

 

Rosen is a great pocket passer who can hit the timing passes better than any of the other QBs.  His traits translate to the NFL the best.  

 

Darnold has had stuggles with turnovers but he's had some great NFL type throws.  With the right coaching, he'll be a star.  His Penn state game was eye-opening last year.  

 

Allen has no talent around him at all.  You can't just look at the stats with him.  Watching him play several games he's shown me a wow factor too often to pass on him.  He has the best arm in this class by a mile.  He certainly needs grooming and some time behind a vet but he can be great.

 

Mayfield has a bunch of questions and I'm not that high on him myself.  I think he's the fourth QB in this class.

 

I think Drew may come out but we will see.

 

I agree with you on most of it. I just think Rudolph has some potential, but that’s just my estimate. I could be totally wrong.

 

honestly I’m hoping the Giants amaze everyone and either trade down or take Barkley and the Bills are able to move up and take Darnold. It’s a hope and a dream, but it’s possible. 

[Buffalo716]

14 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....so Rudolph at 20ish wouldn't be a bad deal?...............

 

Right now I may like Baker a bit more as a QB but I think both are right around that range and it wouldn't be a reach

 

Bakers flaws are more height and if he can mature.

 

Rudolph will have to refine some lower body mechanics and work on 3 step drops under center 

 

but both have traits that scouts love in a QB

 

I think Baker sees the field better though 

[The Now Moment]

3 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

 

I agree with you on most of it. I just think Rudolph has some potential, but that’s just my estimate. I could be totally wrong.

 

honestly I’m hoping the Giants amaze everyone and either trade down or take Barkley and the Bills are able to move up and take Darnold. It’s a hope and a dream, but it’s possible. 

We can only hope the Giants do something stupid haha.  I've just seen Rudolph in a lot of games and been left very unimpressed with his body of work really.  I don't like his arm.  Don't think he has first round talent.  See him as a second round guy.