Tyrod is a franchise QB

[GoBills808]

Thats why I painted the whole picture. Cam is absolutely less efficient but isnt much different in terms of the gross stats on the positive side.

For me the difference is that you can rely on Newton to carry a team when called upon, as proven by their SB run. He's perhaps the most inconsistent QB in the league for me, but his upside is high enough that you'll suffer his valleys in hopes of the peaks. Taylor has yet to prove (in my mind) he's earned a similar distinction.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

This statement alone either shows you cant move past your biased hatred or you actually dont understand football. To put the 7 sacks on him is beyond stupid. Our OL was DOMINATED last night, and its not even debatable. TT took a lot of big hits standing in there and delivering the ball too beyond the 7 sacks. In fact, if not for TT there probably would have been 12 sacks. Sure, a couple of them didnt happen right after the snap, but to throw your guys also have to be open, so not even fair to just default to its TT fault without first looking if he had anywhere to go with the ball.

Well then I guess every commentator on the game is a hater. Edited November 3, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[rodneykm]

I watch enough football to know a few of those Newton turnovers are tough to pin on him.

 

Same for a few of Tyrods using that logic.

[Kirby Jackson]

For me the difference is that you can rely on Newton to carry a team when called upon, as proven by their SB run. He's perhaps the most inconsistent QB in the league for me, but his upside is high enough that you'll suffer his valleys in hopes of the peaks. Taylor has yet to prove (in my mind) he's earned a similar distinction.

I like Cam (probably more than most on this board). At the same time he hasnt been the better QB since the Super Bowl (in which he was awful). My point is that we have people convinced that he is a franchise QB but Tyrod has no chance. When you look side-by-side the guy thats been the better player over the last year and a half is Tyrod. That doesnt mean I prefer him to Cam (although you can make a strong argument either way). It just means that Bills fans need a frame of reference when evaluating the team and QB.

[GoBills808]

 

Same for a few of Tyrods using that logic.

True. And that's not counting the entire 'what the QB is asked to do' argument when it comes to TO ratio (and efficiency statistics in general), which is why I have a healthy dose of skepticism when it gets posted as some definitive answer as to a QB's value.

[Alphadawg7]

Great take since the start of last season:

Cam - 54.6%, 271 total yards a game, 37 TDs, 28 turnovers

Tyrod - 62.9%, 237 total yards a game, 35 TDs, 11 turnovers

 

You guys need to watch more football!!

 

Great Post! Yet the pundits here will value the extra measly 34 yards a game (on a team that throws more) over the 17 more turnovers. LMAO

 

Here is another fun stat over the same time period.

Newton: 773 pass attempts

Taylor: 672 pass attempts

 

So Newton has thrown 101 more times and yet has only managed 2 more TD's and a small amount more of yards per game.

 

So sick and tired of people OVERLOOKING pass ATTEMPTS in Taylors totals. You cant acquire yards passing when you hand the ball off on the #1 rushing team in the NFL for a large portion of that period (Bills 2016).

 

Tyrod has outplayed Cam by almost any measure of a QB over that period and done so with LESS weapons to work with, a terrible coaching staff for all of that 2016 season, one less game played, and 3 OC's during the same span. Yet he's put up almost the same amount of total TD's only a handful of fewer yards the Cam, while also PROTECTING THE BALL LIGHT YEARS BETTER!

Edited November 3, 2017 by Alphadawg7

[Chandler#81]

In the game I watched last night, Tyrod not only wasn’t the reason we lost, he was the best player on the field for Buffalo. I’ve seen major strides from him this year.

But what do I know..

[Kirby Jackson]

True. And that's not counting the entire 'what the QB is asked to do' argument when it comes to TO ratio (and efficiency statistics in general), which is why I have a healthy dose of skepticism when it gets posted as some definitive answer as to a QB's value.

FWIW, Tyrod has been asked to shoulder a MASSIVE portion of this offense this year.

[BillnutinHouston]

How about the pass into the flat to Shady that led him too far?

 

Is that the throw of a franchise qb?

[NickelCity]

In the game I watched last night, Tyrod not only wasn’t the reason we lost, he was the best player on the field for Buffalo. I’ve seen major strides from him this year.

But what do I know..

 

Agreed. I'm in "show me" mode with TT, and he looked solid last night. Definitely progressing. Horrible, horrible line performance on both sides.

[CommonCents]

In the game I watched last night, Tyrod not only wasnt the reason we lost, he was the best player on the field for Buffalo. Ive seen major strides from him this year.

But what do I know..

He threw that ball deep when he got the free play for the offsides, that was opportunistic and something I hadn't seen him do before.

 

I still can't get over the no audibles or adjustments at the LOS, either all his coaches staffs are incompetent or he is unable to do it. In today's game that puts a team at a big disadvantage.

[Augie]

In the game I watched last night, Tyrod not only wasn’t the reason we lost, he was the best player on the field for Buffalo. I’ve seen major strides from him this year.

But what do I know..

Yeah, but some people made their minds up a loooong time ago, and there’s no going back.

[Kirby Jackson]

He threw that ball deep when he got the free play for the offsides, that was opportunistic and something I hadn't seen him do before.

 

I still can't get over the no audibles or adjustments at the LOS, either all his coaches staffs are incompetent or he is unable to do it. In today's game that puts a team at a big disadvantage.

FWIW, I posted the article it in one of these threads but as recently as 2013 Kubiak wouldnt allow Matt Schaub to call an audible. He was an experienced QB thought to be cerebral. Dennison is a Kubiak disciple. That is just what they do.

How about the pass into the flat to Shady that led him too far?

 

Is that the throw of a franchise qb?

I thought that was his worst throw of the night. Fortunately he threw a bullet on the next play for a TD.

[CircleTheWagons99]

Romo was even calling out Tyrod for holding the ball too long, saying multiple times he needs to learn how to throw the ball away. Franchise QBs know when to throw the ball away.

[GoBills808]

I like Cam (probably more than most on this board). At the same time he hasnt been the better QB since the Super Bowl (in which he was awful). My point is that we have people convinced that he is a franchise QB but Tyrod has no chance. When you look side-by-side the guy thats been the better player over the last year and a half is Tyrod. That doesnt mean I prefer him to Cam (although you can make a strong argument either way). It just means that Bills fans need a frame of reference when evaluating the team and QB.

I thought he outplayed Brady when they beat NE this year. I also think he was better than Winston when they beat the Bucs (although that's not saying much), and he was pretty unlucky in that Eagles game.

[CommonCents]

FWIW, I posted the article it in one of these threads but as recently as 2013 Kubiak wouldnt allow Matt Schaub to call an audible. He was an experienced QB thought to be cerebral. Dennison is a Kubiak disciple. That is just what they do.

I thought that was his worst throw of the night. Fortunately he threw a bullet on the next play for a TD.

If that comes with Dennison then he needs to go. Even JM

audibled out and took advantage of 1 on 1 outside for a touchdown.

 

Is Taylor the guy that can do it and do it well? Who knows, we haven't seen it with any of his OC's.

 

They do need an OC and QB that can execute at that level and trust eachother enough to do so.

[HappyDays]

How about the pass into the flat to Shady that led him too far?

 

Is that the throw of a franchise qb?

I wont rest until we have a QB that throws with 100% accuracy

[GunnerBill]

This statement alone either shows you cant move past your biased hatred or you actually dont understand football. To put the 7 sacks on him is beyond stupid. Our OL was DOMINATED last night, and its not even debatable. TT took a lot of big hits standing in there and delivering the ball too beyond the 7 sacks. In fact, if not for TT there probably would have been 12 sacks. Sure, a couple of them didnt happen right after the snap, but to throw your guys also have to be open, so not even fair to just default to its TT fault without first looking if he had anywhere to go with the ball.

By my count there were two sacks wholly or partly on TT plus the fumble... but at least 4 pressures that are sacks on almost anyone else that he got out of.

[Augie]

FWIW, I posted the article it in one of these threads but as recently as 2013 Kubiak wouldnt allow Matt Schaub to call an audible. He was an experienced QB thought to be cerebral. Dennison is a Kubiak disciple. That is just what they do.I thought that was his worst throw of the night. Fortunately he threw a bullet on the next play for a TD.

Well....maybe they should re-think what they do.....

[GoBills808]

FWIW, Tyrod has been asked to shoulder a MASSIVE portion of this offense this year.

Hmm. I don't know about this, how do you figure?

[Alphadawg7]

Romo was even calling out Tyrod for holding the ball too long, saying multiple times he needs to learn how to throw the ball away. Franchise QBs know when to throw the ball away.

 

Hold on...stop. If he kept throwing the ball away you would be criticizing him for that too. Lets not pretend you and the other pundits would approve him chucking the ball out of bounds.

 

Second, its factually not true. Not only on most of his sacks were there MULTIPLE defenders on top of him, literally pushing our own OL into TT's body, but TT's legs kept many more sacks from happening where he made plays down field.

 

The Romo criticisms everyone is conveniently misremembering was when TT was driving the field using the short to intermediate routes over the middle while there was single coverage on the outside. Romo kept pointing out on that drive that Jets were leaving single coverage, and that even though TT was completing passes for first downs, given the clock and points down, he needed to take advantage of the outside single coverage and go for the deeper routes. A few plays later, TT did just that on the DT TD pass.

 

Yet people are now taking those late game comments and spreading those criticisms over the entire game.

[Kirby Jackson]

If that comes with Dennison then he needs to go. Even JM

audibled out and took advantage of 1 on 1 outside for a touchdown.

 

Is Taylor the guy that can do it and do it well? Who knows, we haven't seen it with any of his OC's.

 

They do need an OC and QB that can execute at that level and trust eachother enough to do so.

Yeah, I thought it was crazy. Fwiw, here is the article: https://www.profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/30/kubiak-schaub-couldnt-audible-out-of-very-very-poor-play/amp/

[Alphadawg7]

By my count there were two sacks wholly or partly on TT plus the fumble... but at least 4 pressures that are sacks on almost anyone else that he got out of.

 

Yeah, thats about the same take away I had. Also, I dont fault TT on the fumble. He escaped the pocket and kept his eyes down field and the ball in position to throw. The pursuit of the defender got to his hand before he could find an opening trying to make a play. So hard to fault him for having the ball in position to throw while escaping a broken pocket and looking to make a play down field given there was a defender in front of him keeping him from running. The pursuing defender came off a block and closed quickly from his backside and wasn't a result of TT being careless.

[Kirby Jackson]

Hmm. I don't know about this, how do you figure?

He lost his top 3 receivers from last year and his top target this year for half of the games. The offense thus far has been Shady and Tyrod. They have Ha day to make all of the plays. Now, with Benjamin here, Zay developing and Clay getting back it may lighten up some. Do you actually disagree with that??

[xRUSHx]

Look at the above and start watching and learning football. Almost every post from you is wrong. You may have the least accurate takes on this entire board. If you can look at the last year and a half and say that Cam is a franchise QB now but Tyrod cant be you arent paying attention. You lie but numbers dont.

Cam:

3× Pro Bowl (2011, 2013, 2015)First-team All-Pro (2015)NFL Most Valuable Player (2015)NFL Offensive Player of the Year (2015)Bert Bell Award (2015)NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year (2011)BCS national champion (2010)SEC champion (2010)Heisman Trophy (2010)Maxwell Award (2010)Walter Camp Award (2010)Davey O'Brien Award (2010)AP College Player of the Year (2010)Sporting News College Player of the Year (2010)Consensus All-American (2010)First-team All-SEC (2010)

 

And Tyrod has done what again?

 

Sure Cam is having some issues now, he was blasted in the head a bunch last season he might not ever be the same but he is still light years ahead in accomplishments over Tyrod who can't even get a wild card out of his team or even stop a team from stacking the box as they dare him to be a QB. Do that against Cam, no way a team does that.

Edited November 3, 2017 by xRUSHx

[CircleTheWagons99]

 

Hold on...stop. If he kept throwing the ball away you would be criticizing him for that too. Lets not pretend you and the other pundits would approve him chucking the ball out of bounds.

 

Second, its factually not true. Not only on most of his sacks were there MULTIPLE defenders on top of him, literally pushing our own OL into TT's body, but TT's legs kept many more sacks from happening where he made plays down field.

 

The Romo criticisms everyone is conveniently misremembering was when TT was driving the field using the short to intermediate routes over the middle while there was single coverage on the outside. Romo kept pointing out on that drive that Jets were leaving single coverage, and that even though TT was completing passes for first downs, given the clock and points down, he needed to take advantage of the outside single coverage and go for the deeper routes. A few plays later, TT did just that on the DT TD pass.

 

Yet people are now taking those late game comments and spreading those criticisms over the entire game.

soooo, you rather have 7 sacks and all that yardage lost? He needs to learn to throw quick and throw the ball away when the biltz is on and no one is open. As stated again BEFORE the game last night, he has the 2nd longest release in the NFL. And I dont count garbage time yards or TDs.

[Kirby Jackson]

Cam:

3× Pro Bowl (2011, 2013, 2015)First-team All-Pro (2015)NFL Most Valuable Player (2015)NFL Offensive Player of the Year (2015)Bert Bell Award (2015)NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year (2011)BCS national champion (2010)SEC champion (2010)Heisman Trophy (2010)Maxwell Award (2010)Walter Camp Award (2010)Davey O'Brien Award (2010)AP College Player of the Year (2010)Sporting News College Player of the Year (2010)Consensus All-American (2010)First-team All-SEC (2010)

 

And Tyrod has done what again?

 

Sure Cam is having some issues now, he was blasted in the head a bunch last season he might not ever be the same but he is still light years ahead in accomplishments over Tyrod who can't even get a wild card out of his team.

Eli Manning is too. It doesnt mean that he is any good now. We arent looking for a QB to play in 2012. Keep up with what is going on in 2017. Edited November 3, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[Augie]

Cam:

3× Pro Bowl (2011, 2013, 2015)First-team All-Pro (2015)NFL Most Valuable Player (2015)NFL Offensive Player of the Year (2015)Bert Bell Award (2015)NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year (2011)BCS national champion (2010)SEC champion (2010)Heisman Trophy (2010)Maxwell Award (2010)Walter Camp Award (2010)Davey O'Brien Award (2010)AP College Player of the Year (2010)Sporting News College Player of the Year (2010)Consensus All-American (2010)First-team All-SEC (2010)

And Tyrod has done what again?

Sure Cam is having some issues now, he was blasted in the head a bunch last season he might not ever be the same but he is still light years ahead in accomplishments over Tyrod who can't even get a wild card out of his team.

Have you been playing with your time machine again?

[Alphadawg7]

soooo, you rather have 7 sacks and all that yardage lost? He needs to learn to throw quick and throw the ball away when the biltz is on and no one is open. As stated again BEFORE the game last night, he has the 2nd longest release in the NFL. And I dont count garbage time yards or TDs.

 

Ok, if people are going to KEEP bringing up how long it takes him to get rid of the ball, you need to factor in that a LOT of plays are extended by his legs behind a shaky OL or are called roll outs, all GREATLY add to that time. Its pretty unfair to judge him against other QB's who don't use their legs the way TT does, their games don't compare. Not to mention, a weak WR group that he has typically worked with over his career due to injuries, trades and lack of depth also factor in because our WR group has failed to consistently get separation, also contributing to a QB holding the ball longer.

 

Now, I am not saying he doesn't need to improve on this, because I do agree he needs to continue to get better in getting rid of the ball faster. But there are a LOT of factors that go into that, and not all of them are a result of him not pulling the trigger and holding the ball too long.

[Kelly the Dog]

I think Tyrod is a franchise QB for the simple fact that the majority of franchise QBs don't play like franchise QBs the majority of the games, like Tyrod. But you can win with them.

[yungmack]

No he is not.

7 sacks because hes too gunshy to pull the trigger at the end of his dropback.

Next time, before you post, watch the game. It's really harmful.

[Alphadawg7]

Cam:

3× Pro Bowl (2011, 2013, 2015)First-team All-Pro (2015)NFL Most Valuable Player (2015)NFL Offensive Player of the Year (2015)Bert Bell Award (2015)NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year (2011)BCS national champion (2010)SEC champion (2010)Heisman Trophy (2010)Maxwell Award (2010)Walter Camp Award (2010)Davey O'Brien Award (2010)AP College Player of the Year (2010)Sporting News College Player of the Year (2010)Consensus All-American (2010)First-team All-SEC (2010)

 

And Tyrod has done what again?

 

Sure Cam is having some issues now, he was blasted in the head a bunch last season he might not ever be the same but he is still light years ahead in accomplishments over Tyrod who can't even get a wild card out of his team.

 

Tyrod has been invited to the Pro Bowl 100% of the years hes been a starter so far (2 to Cams 3 in 7 years). So there is that.

-And he did that with 3 OC's in 2 years, missing his best weapons mostly, and with inept coaching for majority of his starts.

 

Cam played on way better teams, with better coaching, better FO, more talent. So there is that.

 

Tyrod has outplayed Cam since becoming a starter in the NFL. So there is that.

 

College doesn't matter on any level in the NFL. The top 10 statistical QB's of all time in CFB history were all washouts in the NFL or didnt even make the league.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Alphadawg7

[yungmack]

Well then I guess every commentator on the game is a hater.

Some are just plain "football dumb."

[LABILLBACKER]

As others have mentioned he's a good and safe bridge qb. He'll never be a franchise guy who can consistently lead you back from deficits. Last night was a collective crapfest. With the majority of the blame going to our trenches and RD.

[yungmack]

Well then I guess every commentator on the game is a hater.

Some are just plain "football dumb."

How about the pass into the flat to Shady that led him too far?

Is that the throw of a franchise qb?

I see Brady and Rodgers make one or more horrible throws every game and most consider them franchise QBs.

[CircleTheWagons99]

 

Ok, if people are going to KEEP bringing up how long it takes him to get rid of the ball, you need to factor in that a LOT of plays are extended by his legs behind a shaky OL or are called roll outs, all GREATLY add to that time. Its pretty unfair to judge him against other QB's who don't use their legs the way TT does, their games don't compare. Not to mention, a weak WR group that he has typically worked with over his career due to injuries, trades and lack of depth also factor in because our WR group has failed to consistently get separation, also contributing to a QB holding the ball longer.

 

Now, I am not saying he doesn't need to improve on this, because I do agree he needs to continue to get better in getting rid of the ball faster. But there are a LOT of factors that go into that, and not all of them are a result of him not pulling the trigger and holding the ball too long.

If you know you OL is shaky and is having a bad game you need to adapt, when the LOS is stacked tyrod cannot adapt. Last night and last years game against the Ravens proves it. Take his legs away and he cannot win. He holds the ball too long waiting for a player to get open. i can agree last night he made some nice contested throws but that is needed more consistently or he needs to learn to throw the ball away. he has been in the league 7 years now, this is nothing new.

[Iraq Vet]

I just keep yelling at the TV... Throw the &%$# ball....

 

No top franchise QB does that. He just held on and held on..... where was the screen game???

 

Coaches...Your QB is getting killed.... screens!!!!!!!!!!!! High School coaches know this!!

Edited November 3, 2017 by Iraq Vet

[Kirby Jackson]

If you know you OL is shaky and is having a bad game you need to adapt, when the LOS is stacked tyrod cannot adapt. Last night and last years game against the Ravens proves it. Take his legs away and he cannot win. He holds the ball too long waiting for a player to get open. i can agree last night he made some nice contested throws but that is needed more consistently or he needs to learn to throw the ball away. he has been in the league 7 years now, this is nothing new.

I keep going back to which plays do you blame him for yesterday? I still havent gotten a response. He did fumble, had 2 of the 7 sacks attributed to him and missed the throw to Shady. That looked like the Ravens game to you? Please explain

[xRUSHx]

Eli Manning is too. It doesnt mean that he is any good now. We arent looking for a QB to play in 2012. Keep up with what is going on in 2017.

What are you talking about man. Tyrod has accomplished NOTHING but stacked boxes but yet here you are comparing him to QBs that have gone to a SB. Come on man. 2017 Tyrod is the same QB that was drafted years ago and still no better then years ago and still will never be good enough. Draft a dam QB and move on Tyrod will never be good enough. He is the reason we get the stacked box, he is the reason the Bills are not good enough for a playoff run. Bang the table all you want but comparing him to SB QBs is not making a point when Tyrod can't even get a wild card run once in 7 seasons.

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

34-7 late in 4th Quarter.

No one gets to be labeled "played great" when the score is 34-7.

 

...okay maybe a punter.