Tyrod is a franchise QB

[Kirby Jackson]

I just disagreed with the 'massive' part. I don't think you can say that about a QB who's 29th in attempts/game and 27th in yards/game. Sure he's chipped in 210 rushing, but there are like 13 other QBs over 100 on the season.

 

We are just going to have to disagree then.

Well look at 3rd down, RZ, etc... Tyrod has been asked to be one of the 2 playmakers on the team. He has to buy time and make plays that other QBs dont have to make. The Bills havent had guys that bail him out (with the exception of Shady and a healthy Clay). He has had to bail them out. Now that may change with the improvements of the pass catching group.

[GoBills808]

Well look at 3rd down, RZ, etc... Tyrod has been asked to be one of the 2 playmakers on the team. He has to buy time and make plays that other QBs dont have to make. The Bills havent had guys that bail him out (with the exception of Shady and a healthy Clay). He has had to bail them out. Now that may change with the improvements of the pass catching group.

Sure. But other QBs have to make plays that Taylor doesn't have to make as well.

[Kirby Jackson]

Sure. But other QBs have to make plays that Taylor doesn't have to make as well.

Oh without question, we are in agreement there.

[BigPappy]

Sure. But other QBs have to make plays that Taylor doesn't Can't have to make as well.

 

Fixed

[Best Player Available]

After listening to him call games, I wonder if coaching is in his future.

Could be. Certainly winning playoff games wasn't.

[GoBills808]

Oh without question, we are in agreement there.

So all things being equal, I was just disagreeing about how large a load he shoulders in our offense when you look at his usage. I agree there's more to it than just attempts and yards, but that's true for every QB.

[Kirby Jackson]

So all things being equal, I was just disagreeing about how large a load he shoulders in our offense when you look at his usage. I agree there's more to it than just attempts and yards, but that's true for every QB.

Yeah, everyone has different responsibilities. Its dependent on scheme, score and the players around them. This year, the Bills have needed more out of Tyrod primarily because of the players around him but partially by scheme. He is asked to keep plays alive, make plays down the field and with his feet. He is the entire 3rd down offense. They count on him to be the playmaker and keep the field position in their favor. There are other guys like Jameis that are asked to sling it around good and bad. Both guys are critical to their offense but are asked to do different things. Tyrod in a lot of ways is most similar to Dak in his responsibilities. Edited November 3, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[GoBills808]

Yeah, everyone has different responsibilities. Its dependent on scheme, score and the players around them. This year, the Bills have needed more out of Tyrod primarily because of the players around him but partially by scheme. He is asked to keep plays alive, make plays down the field and with his feet. He is the entire 3rd down offense. They count on him to be the playmaker and keep the field position in their favor. There are other guys like Jameis that are asked to sling it around good and bad. Both guys are critical to their offense but are asked to do different things. Tyrod in a lot of ways is most similar to Dak in his responsibilities.

Well put. Maybe what I'm getting at is that it's not how much of the offense he's responsible for, but rather the particular way they ask him to run it. Because I'm pretty confident that by end of season his usage stats will look pretty similar to last season's regardless of who's surrounding him on offense.

[Kirby Jackson]

Well put. Maybe what I'm getting at is that it's not how much of the offense he's responsible for, but rather the particular way they ask him to run it. Because I'm pretty confident that by end of season his usage stats will look pretty similar to last season's regardless of who's surrounding him on offense.

I think thats probably true. I also think that a little of the pressure will come off of him and Shady. They have had to be really good at all times for the offense to succeed. With Clay and Benjamin as well as the emergence of Thompson and Zay they can lighten the load. It might be YAC, it might be great catches in traffic and in general just make more plays. The Bills still need Tyrod and Shady to play well but they will get a little more margin for error moving forward.

 

Ironically the defense is kind of having the opposite problem. Hughes is asked to do so much in terms of pass rush because of the talent and scheme. Lorax looks done, Dareus is gone, Kyle is a year older and Shaq looks like a guy that sets the edge well but struggles rushing. The Bills NEED Hughes to generate pressure.

[LA Grant]

Tyrod was one of the few bright spots in a bleak game last night, I thought.

 

Easily the worst performance of the season from both the O-Line and the D-Line. Maybe its a conditioning thing and a short week thing. I don't know. But Tyrod had absolutely no time unless he was able to make it himself, and there was no room in the running game.

 

I was predicting/hoping that the offense would open up this week. Clearly I was wrong. I thought that based on how they matched up with the Jets the last few times, we would be able to control the game. Obviously not the case -- it went the exact opposite way and the Jets performed how I thought the Bills would.

 

Thing is, our team is not built to come from behind and win -- not yet, although I think that could possibly change when we have Kelvin Benjamin, Charles Clay, Zay Jones all on the field, and the more that Deonte Thompson gets worked in, and the more Matthews develops a rapport with Tyrod.

 

When we're throwing as much as we were yesterday, it's because we're getting beat at the line of scrimmage. Losing at the LOS means no running. No running means shorter drives. Shorter drives means we fall behind. Then we're throwing just to stay alive, and the O-Line, even when playing well, are not as good at pass blocking as they are with run blocking.

 

I think Tyrod is able to do things most QBs cannot in terms of buying time. He is clearly developing -- throwing over the middle, always looking to throw before scrambling, he's very smart about avoiding hits and when he does take them he usually falls pretty well -- and I think once he has some reliable pass-catchers, we'll be able to be better when we're in desperate situations like last night.

 

But no, Tyrod is not good enough to win games single handedly. Even when Doug Flutie seemed like he had magic, he had Eric Moulds and Andre Reed.

[GoBills808]

I think thats probably true. I also think that a little of the pressure will come off of him and Shady. They have had to be really good at all times for the offense to succeed. With Clay and Benjamin as well as the emergence of Thompson and Zay they can lighten the load. It might be YAC, it might be great catches in traffic and in general just make more plays. The Bills still need Tyrod and Shady to play well but they will get a little more margin for error moving forward.

 

Ironically the defense is kind of having the opposite problem. Hughes is asked to do so much in terms of pass rush because of the talent and scheme. Lorax looks done, Dareus is gone, Kyle is a year older and Shaq looks like a guy that sets the edge well but struggles rushing. The Bills NEED Hughes to generate pressure.

Again, I agree 100%. I think lost amid the weirdness of being caught between major roster/staff turnover and a 5-3 record is the fact that two key pieces on defense and one on offense are probably past their prime...Hughes IMO won't age well as an undersized DE, once he loses that step his effectiveness is going to drop dramatically.

[HappyDays]

What I think is going on is that you dont know what the hell is going on so you go to the lowest common denominator and talk QB.

Whats going on is Tyrod stole EJs starter spot and he never let it go. I am sorry we brought him with us in the BBMB transfer. Youd be best off ignoring him, hes one of about 3 posters I dont bother with. All former EJ guys that couldnt move on.

[Augie]

Again, I agree 100%. I think lost amid the weirdness of being caught between major roster/staff turnover and a 5-3 record is the fact that two key pieces on defense and one on offense are probably past their prime...Hughes IMO won't age well as an undersized DE, once he loses that step his effectiveness is going to drop dramatically.

Can’t argue that (hard to believe we are an “old” team!), but that’s why we need to hit on a lot of those draft picks. I’ve heard little about the scouting staff changes other than Whaley is gone. I know it’s out there...somewhere. That’s critical to our future.

[Kirby Jackson]

Again, I agree 100%. I think lost amid the weirdness of being caught between major roster/staff turnover and a 5-3 record is the fact that two key pieces on defense and one on offense are probably past their prime...Hughes IMO won't age well as an undersized DE, once he loses that step his effectiveness is going to drop dramatically.

Yep, we need to find guys to fill in behind them this offseason. The Bills need a pass rusher and a DT IMO. They need starting caliber skill sets too. They also need a RB to take the carries behind Shady with the possibility of being a starter. My guess is that they sign Star Lotulelei, use a 1st on a pass rushing prospect and take a RB in the 3rd. Total guess but think that they will look to address those areas.

[Chandler#81]

Tyrod has been invited to the Pro Bowl 100% of the years hes been a starter so far (2 to Cams 3 in 7 years). So there is that.

-And he did that with 3 OC's in 2 years, missing his best weapons mostly, and with inept coaching for majority of his starts.

 

Cam played on way better teams, with better coaching, better FO, more talent. So there is that.

 

Tyrod has outplayed Cam since becoming a starter in the NFL. So there is that.

 

College doesn't matter on any level in the NFL. The top 10 statistical QB's of all time in CFB history were all washouts in the NFL or didnt even make the league.

 

Sadly, the Rush is an immovable object when it comes to objectivity. He has yet to be remotely correct on any topic he posts him. Undaunted, he fires away with his seering logic, facts be damned.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Cam this Cam that.

 

Hes irrelevant to Tyrod Taylor

Edited November 3, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[HappyDays]

Romo was calling it last night, single coverage on the outside all night, quick throws would back the Jets off out of the stacked box. Crazy how these guys refuse to see it even though Romo was calling it last night right to there faces as they watch.

Nope. He mentioned that once on one drive when there were about 7 minutes left. This is a good example of how your brain literally twists reality to fit your preconceived notions.

Edited November 3, 2017 by HappyDays

[Augie]

Yep, we need to find guys to fill in behind them this offseason. The Bills need a pass rusher and a DT IMO. They need starting caliber skill sets too. They also need a RB to take the carries behind Shady with the possibility of being a starter. My guess is that they sign Star Lotulelei, use a 1st on a pass rushing prospect and take a RB in the 3rd. Total guess but think that they will look to address those areas.

Maybe TWO at DT? Dareus is gone and Kyles getting old, so that could be two starters down. Hopefully we can get lucky on a cheap later round RB.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Augie

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

For 2.5 half years all you have ever posted is Tyrod sucks posts. That's a crusade.

 

Tyrod and the rest of the offense run the plays that Dennison calls. When Romo becomes our offensive coordinator they can do what Romo calls.

So a QB WHO actually got his team to the playoffs doesnt know what hes talking about?

 

Seriously 😒?

Ill follow the advice of a former football player over fans on forums. Sorry.

[JPP]

Romo made a good QB comparison at the end of the game....look at JM game stats and look at TT game stats and just by seeing them who do you think would likelly have won the game.....even if you didnt watch the game (anyone who did watch can clearly see the predominant reasons why they lost).....just an interesting observation by Romo.....

[John from Riverside]

No he is not.

 

7 sacks because hes too gunshy to pull the trigger at the end of his dropback.

At the end of his drop back he had someone in his face last night.....a lot

[grb]

Wow. Is not obvious to you

 

Throw the ball away.

 

What percent of sacks league-wide would that apply to?

Ninety percent? Ninety-five percent?

Are all those other quarterbacks at fault, or is this just a Taylor-thing?

Edited November 3, 2017 by grb

[GoBills808]

Can’t argue that (hard to believe we are an “old” team!), but that’s why we need to hit on a lot of those draft picks. I’ve heard little about the scouting staff changes other than Whaley is gone. I know it’s out there...somewhere. That’s critical to our future.

Well, having all those high picks can't hurt. Sidenote, this is the first season I haven't talked next year's draft until after week 8 in quite a while.

 

Yep, we need to find guys to fill in behind them this offseason. The Bills need a pass rusher and a DT IMO. They need starting caliber skill sets too. They also need a RB to take the carries behind Shady with the possibility of being a starter. My guess is that they sign Star Lotulelei, use a 1st on a pass rushing prospect and take a RB in the 3rd. Total guess but think that they will look to address those areas.

Wouldn't be surprised to see LB up there either.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Could you put all of us on your ignore list please?

The simplest solution Kelly is for you to put xRushx on ignore.

[Kirby Jackson]

Maybe TWO at DT? Dareus is gone and Kyles getting old, so that could be two starters down. Hopefully we can get lucky on a cheap later round RB.

They may need 2. I think some of the rotational guys are rotational talents. They need two starters though. I guess that I am banking on either Kyle sticking around or someone stepping up into that role next to Lotulelei.

Well, having all those high picks can't hurt. Sidenote, this is the first season I haven't talked next year's draft until after week 8 in quite a while.

 

Wouldn't be surprised to see LB up there either.

Yeah, they need at least one. I like what Ive seen from Milano. Humber isnt useless but think hes a FA. Brown is what he is. He would be a great 4th LB. They need more athleticism at LB. I would expect a FA signing or one of the first 5 picks on a LB.

[HappyDays]

Yeah. #1 offense in the league, threw for 35 TDs and rushed for 10 more. That's without Benjamin who went down with an ACL in preseason.

Panthers led the turnover differential that year (also led in takeaways). According to you that isnt sustainable and is flukey. So maybe they just made it in a flukey season that they have never come close to replicating? Where does that leave Cam?

[mjt328]

The way I see it, if a quarterback reaches the full depth of his dropback and can immediately step into a throw, the O-Line has given him enough time.

 

It's not about "how many seconds" he actually has. Because plays are designed around predetermined routes and a certain number of steps on a dropback.

What is necessary for a 2-step drop and quick slant, is much different than a 4-5 step drop and timing route 15 yards downfield. And blocking assignments usually reflect this as well.

 

The vast majority of pressure last night WAS NOT the fault of our quarterback.

[BillsDiehard]

Maybe a McDonalds Franchise...

[grb]

That fumble is on him IMO.

 

He didn't hear the footsteps; he didn't secure the ball. Definitely on him. It's pretty astounding how rarely it happens.....

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

The simplest solution Kelly is for you to put xRushx on ignore.

 

 

...why would you deny yourself the humor?.....not to mention it's free...he was a major (COUGH) contributor at BBMB.....same fertilizer......

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

At the end of his drop back he had someone in his face last night.....a lot

John what have we both stated about TT?

Progression and consistency.

 

Other than Zay Jones I saw typical Tyrod Taylor

Sorry man.

 

Its not about the loss, i can deal with them its the way it happened.

 

BBFS.

[Doc Brown]

Tyrod has guts. He is by far, not the greatest, by any means... However, he's a black QB, and that is a problem with some people....

Let's put you under center,and and see how you fare...

Yes. I remember all those Philly fans that were calling for McNabb and Vick's head when they lead them to the playoffs. Give me a break. Taylor is the best option we have now but he is NOT a franchise quarterback. He can get you to a wild card game with a great team surrounding him. That's it.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Doc Brown

[GoBills808]

Panthers led the turnover differential that year (also led in takeaways). According to you that isnt sustainable and is flukey. So maybe they just made it in a flukey season that they have never come close to replicating? Where does that leave Cam?

So because turnovers are predominantly a function of luck (and they are), that somehow means Newton wasn't great that season? OK then.

[HumbleAndHungry]

Tyrod can't carry a team

[JM2009]

John what have we both stated about TT?

Progression and consistency.

 

Other than Zay Jones I saw typical Tyrod Taylor

Sorry man.

 

Its not about the loss, i can deal with them its the way it happened.

 

BBFS.

yeah, both lines got dominated. TT wasn't the problem.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

He didn't hear the footsteps; he didn't secure the ball. Definitely on him. It's pretty astounding how rarely it happens.....

Yep, he was trying to make a play and turned it over. It happens (and thankfully not very often to him).

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

Just as consistent as the Bills are to being average or below...

...so to is the never ending battle of supporter vs. skeptics over the Bills average Place Holding QB.

 

You know that old statement if you have to think about it the player shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame.

 

Well...

 

If you have to argue so much about a quarterback there's probably some real issues and if you're arguing as much he's probably not the franchise quarterback.

[JM2009]

Tyrod can't carry a team

Not many QBs could have played well behind that line last night. Is he responsible for the fumbles too?

[John from Riverside]

John what have we both stated about TT?

Progression and consistency.

 

Other than Zay Jones I saw typical Tyrod Taylor

Sorry man.

 

Its not about the loss, i can deal with them its the way it happened.

 

BBFS.

I have also preached consistancy this season....I still do

 

BUT

 

When every other aspect of the team is failing around Tyrod.....and he is still completing passes with his own OL getting shoved into him every play.......players committing stupid penalties.....the defense falling apart....his recievers fumbling the ball.......

 

its a little hard to blame it on him....

[HappyDays]

So because turnovers are predominantly a function of luck (and they are), that somehow means Newton wasn't great that season? OK then.

You said Cam led them to a Super Bowl, I was disputing that he alone was responsible for that great season.

You said Cam led them to a Super Bowl, I was disputing that he alone was responsible for that great season.

Specifically you said Cam carried them which is demonstrably false when you look at the defensive stats. If you want to say he carried the offense Im 100% with you there.