MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Eyeballs. Do you see him making a difference out there? Do you see him earning his keep and massive contract. He'll be a disaster for the Jags after next season. Sunk cost that contract. Facts Bills are in the Midde of the playoff race with a top end talent that played very well last hame. And what do they do sell that player off for nothing. That hurts the team. I get the trade and if this trade happened AFTER the season i would have been all for it (would have got better than a 6th) and a heck of alot more cap space. This is giving a talented player away because you dont want to deal with him. Nothing more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 So far we have not paid Gilmore, not paid Gillislee, not paid Woods, traded Watkins before we had to pay him, traded Dareus, tried to trade Glenn, only brough Tyrod back at half price...I did think. Look at what has taken place. I dont care what type of money pegula has. Its a salary cap league and hes not making the roster decisions. These guys are going to fill a team with value c minus players and never overlay for guys. A lot of people like that. I just think the money ball movement is overblown and the teams with the good players usually winWas you aware of our cap problems prior to firing Whaley. If not you should revisit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewMexBills Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Peace out Big-Puff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) 6 Days from now we will have a much better sense for where the Bills are. They are either going to be .500, 2 games over .500 or 4 games over .500 at the mid-point. This is an overachieving team regardless if it is two or four games over .500. That's a tribute to the coaching staff and the type of players they are working with. For the sake of the fans and players, such as Kyle Williams and Wood, I would love to see them qualify for the playoffs, but don't see it materializing. What excites me is that I see a direction and a coherency in the organization that hasn't existed for a long time. In general, I'm optimistic. I never felt that there was going to be a quick fix. That doesn't mean the timetable can't be accelerated with smart and judicious decisions. Edited October 28, 2017 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Peace out Big-Puff!what are the odds he fails a drug test when in a Jags uniform? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Wow, cant believe they got it done. Im sure the Bills are going to eat some of the money. Wow seems in ways like the old Bills give away a decent player & get almost nothing in return ... A 6th round conditional pick for a first round number 3 over all pick WOW that's playing hard ball !! Can you say Chip Kelly !! Should have at least got a 3rd round pick ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Youre too concerned with the draft pick. Would you have felt better if they just cut him after the year? He is an injury and suspension risk, and they found an opportunity now to eliminate his salary ramifications after next season. The 6th/5th rounder is the least important part of this trade. Its like when people say we traded Sammy Watkins for an injured CB. Blatantly ignoring all the reasons these moves are made.I wouldnt have cut him after this year either. Im not sure whats confusing? The out was AFTER 2018. I would have tried to trade him then and if not cut him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 what are the odds he fails a drug test when in a Jags uniform?high. Get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 He had zero value. Do tou warch foitball regularly or keep ip with Dareus shenanigans? Yes i do watch Football regularly and understand posituon play now Kyle will face the Double Teams. This hurts the Bills no matter how you try and spin it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 This is an overachieving team regardless if it is two or four games over .500. That's a tribute to the coaching staff and the type of players they are working with. For the sake of the fans and players, such as Kyle Williams and Wood, I would love to see them quality for the playoffs, but don't see it materializing. What excites me is that I see a direction and a coherency in the organization that hasn't existed for a long time. In general, I'm optimistic. I never felt that there was going to be a quick fix. That doesn't mean the timetable can't be accelerated with smart and judicious decisions. My guess is that they win tomorrow or Thursday and are 5-3 at the halfway point. That would have been as good as I could have hoped before the year. 6-2 and they are in GREAT shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) the manage the salary cap on the business side. And we are now trying to do that as well..Yes we are but this was not the time to weaken your team. And to make a team you are in the playoff race against better in the process. For what a 6th round pick lol Edited October 28, 2017 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleAndHungry Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) If we were to redraft every player in the NFL this year based on their body of work and reputation where do you think Marcel would get drafted Edited October 28, 2017 by Finkle Is Einhorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Yes i do watch Football regularly and understand posituon play now Kyle will face the Double Teams. This hurts the Bills no matter how you try and spin itYou havent watched football because Dareus has missed the equivalent of 2 full games (33 percent) and hasnt hurt us one bit. I havent spun anything. Your take will look foolish later to you after the year plays out as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 If we were to redraft every player in the NFL this year based on their body of work where do you think Marcel would get drafted In the 1st. Two time ProBowler 1st team all pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 I wouldnt have cut him after this year either. Im not sure whats confusing? The out was AFTER 2018. I would have tried to trade him then and if not cut him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Clickbait He wasnt ever going to be on the roster in 2019 so those savings were inevitable. By trading him now instead of cutting him after the season, we save over $7 million in cap space in 2018. What Im not sure of is would we have had to pay him in 2019 too if we kept him this season? I cant find that info anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) Most people here seem to be doing their happy dance over this move. Seems like a mistake to me, but at this point I am reconciled to the fact that McBeane are going to do what they are going to do, and if I am going to be a fan of this team I should just go along for the ride. It's all on them, and if it works I will be happy and if it blows up in their faces I reserve to right to say they are idiots. Edited October 28, 2017 by Dr. K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 You havent watched football because Dareus has missed the equivalent of 2 full games (33 percent) and hasnt hurt us one bit. I havent spun anything. Your take will look foolish later to you after the year plays out as usual. Really? Did we win those games????? Ahhh NOPE we didnt. Keep trying this was a dumb trade for a FO and Coach that just didnt want to deal with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 I agree. IMO, McDermott and his figurehead Beane are throwbacks to the Jauron years when Jauron and his figurehead Levy got rid of whatever talent the Bills had in order to replace them with JAGs and STers who "bought into their system". Watch it happen. We've already seen it happen with the WRs where talented WRs with NFL caliber skillsets were moved out to be replaced by other WRs with skillsets more in tune with McDermott/Beane's requirements ... whatever they might be. Dropping passes? Being unable to get open? Not being deep threats? Playing for cheap? And win Sunday and leading the division? Face it, their moves are working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 If we were to redraft every player in the NFL this year based on their body of work and reputation where do you think Marcel would get draftedThats an interesting question. The QBs would go first. Id say elite skill players and pass rushers next. Hed fall in a tier with guys like Sheldon Richardson, the 2nd tier DTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleAndHungry Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) In the 1st. Two time ProBowler 1st team all pro. So you think he would be the first pick of one of the 32 teams? His pre-draft write up now would look a lot like Chad Kelly's Edited October 28, 2017 by Finkle Is Einhorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) Most people here seem to be doing their happy dance over this move. Seems like a mistake to me, but at this point I am reconciled to the fact that McBeane are going to do what they are going to do, and if I am going to be a fan of this team I should just go along for the ride. It's all on them, and if it works I will be happy and if it blows up in their faces I reserve to right to say they are idiots. This is exactly how I feel as well. Now if we trade Glenn, I will have some huge doubts as to WTF they are doing this year. Trying hard to "trust the process" Edited October 28, 2017 by Real McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 By trading him now instead of cutting him after the season, we save over $7 million in cap space in 2018. What Im not sure of is would we have had to pay him in 2019 too if we kept him this season? I cant find that info anywhere. Trade Now compared to Cut after season has the SAME impact of the 14.5M dead money. They just saved a bit more cap this year by the trade now. It was stupid to make the team weaker in a playoff run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Yes we are but this was not the time to weaken your team. And to make a team you are in the playoff race against better in the process. For what a 6th round pick lol The timing is rather odd given where the team currently is and it leaves them with absolutely no size on the DL to remain stout against the run. From a financial perspective, the cap savings for '17 and '18 don't add up to making much sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 They buy low too. Look at Moss and Dillon, etc... Yup. At some point you have to bring in undervalued guys that have baggage. You pay a coach to manage some of that chaos and actually get a talent advantage in the salary cap era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 I wouldnt have cut him after this year either. Im not sure whats confusing? The out was AFTER 2018. I would have tried to trade him then and if not cut him. Keeping unmotivated guys is a horrible way to try and build a team. Take the financial hit this year and next, use the money saved to get players, and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleAndHungry Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 there was definately a financial aspect to this decision but also important the new regime is trying to send a clear message to the team. their philosophy on teambuilding won't be compromised by a person's draft status or salary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 By trading him now instead of cutting him after the season, we save over $7 million in cap space in 2018. What Im not sure of is would we have had to pay him in 2019 too if we kept him this season? I cant find that info anywhere.We save $2.3M next year and $5.7M this year. We can roll that over unless we use it. It was minimal or none to release him after 2018. I dont remember the number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 I wouldnt have cut him after this year either. Im not sure whats confusing? The out was AFTER 2018. I would have tried to trade him then and if not cut him. If we cut him after 2018 wouldnt we owe him dead cap in the ensuing years? His old contract cant be seen anymore on Spotrac or OTC so Im not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) By trading him now instead of cutting him after the season, we save over $7 million in cap space in 2018. What Im not sure of is would we have had to pay him in 2019 too if we kept him this season? I cant find that info anywhere. No we don't. You are forgetting the accelerated signing bonus. How spending $24 million on no player turns into saving nearly $8 million in savings in your guys' minds, I will never know. https://twitter.com/spotrac/status/924098464685977600 Edited October 28, 2017 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Yup. At some point you have to bring in undervalued guys that have baggage. You pay a coach to manage some of that chaos and actually get a talent advantage in the salary cap era.Exactly, Pittsburgh is doing it with Martavis Bryant right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 The 6th round pick was meaningless, this was a obviously a cap move to unload an underachiever grossly overpaid relative to his contributions. I always loved big 99, thought maybe Denver was going to take him instead of Von Miller. Instead they took the guy who won them a superbowl and we took the guy who pretty much gave us headaches. The next three picks were AJ Green, Patrick Peterson and Julio Jones. JJ Watt was also there to be had. I don't blame Buddy for picking Marcel, but boy did we lose out on some elite guys in that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) If we cut him after 2018 wouldnt we owe him dead cap in the ensuing years? His old contract cant be seen anymore on Spotrac or OTC so Im not sure. From my understanding we had a out option at the end of 2018??? Edited October 28, 2017 by Real McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Exactly, Pittsburgh is doing it with Martavis Bryant right now. Yeah. They suspended him didn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 If we cut him after 2018 wouldnt we owe him dead cap in the ensuing years? His old contract cant be seen anymore on Spotrac or OTC so Im not sure.I dont believe so or at least it was minimal. The contract was structured that way in case it went south. The Bills could get out (more or less) after 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 If we cut him after 2018 wouldnt we owe him dead cap in the ensuing years? His old contract cant be seen anymore on Spotrac or OTC so Im not sure. It would have been like 2M dead after 2018 or something like that if i remember. Very small dead. Not 24.5M dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Yeah. They suspended him didn't they?Yes and said that they arent trading him. They arent going to sell low. They are trying to get him back engaged and let him help down the stretch. He is a WAY bigger headache than Dareus.Keeping unmotivated guys is a horrible way to try and build a team. Take the financial hit this year and next, use the money saved to get players, and move on.Who are you getting with $2M and a 6th round pick that make it worthwhile? Id take Dareus over that through next year all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 there was definately a financial aspect to this decision but also important the new regime is trying to send a clear message to the team. their philosophy on teambuilding won't be compromised by a person's draft status or salary It's clear the team already understands that message. I'm willing to bet few if any players are surprised by this move. Notice how little we've heard from Kyle about Marcell recently? He was the guy in years past who was trying to take Marcell "under his wing" but that went away this season. You can fool fans and the media, but the players know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsSbSoon Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Yeah all this cap space sounds great and all but beane isnt going to make a bunch of splash signings, hes made that pretty clear. Kinda killed my hype for the game tomorrow. Theres not a lot of talent on this team anymore. Then think about future moves besides the holes already there. Shady will be 30, clay 29 with a bad knee. Glenn 28 bad ankles. Kyle might retire. 2-3 years ago i was ecstatic about the roster and what we had. I look at philly right now and thats where we could have been in 2014 with schwartz at dc if we had a young qb like wentz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 This team is moving to the AVG talent good character Dicky J and Marv years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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