4merper4mer Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) This, Doc.... this The elite Sammy Watkins is now the leagues 32nd most productive WR per game with a 64 yard average after a monster night against one of the NFLs worst secondaries.... he left the game injured. If they really need him they can outbid everyone next year, like they would've had to anyway. I knew he had brittle bones but a soft head too? Who leaves a game with a head injury? Most guys just tough it out, especially in 2017. It's not like he can be forced to leave. Wimp. Edited September 22, 2017 by 4merper4mer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elite Poster Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Good game against a bad defense...but he's hurt again. We had a poor outing from our WRs against the Jets, aka, the greatest defense in the history of the NFL. This, Doc.... this The elite Sammy Watkins is now the leagues 32nd most productive WR per game with a 64 yard average after a monster night against one of the NFLs worst secondaries.... he left the game injured. If they really need him they can outbid everyone next year, like they would've had to anyway. Please tell me where Zay and Matthews combined rank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) Confident Gaines is going to be above average cb for us for years to come. At least in this scheme. Sammy is an elite talent, but again, he's in the locker room, likely to miss 2 weeks The best part will obviously be after we Gut the roster and 2 years are a wash - if the third year is slow we can hire someone to swap schemes completely again Edited September 22, 2017 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 The best part will obviously be after we Gut the roster and 2 years are a wash - if the third year is slow we can hire someone to swap schemes completely again I think these are out guys for at least 4 years, no matter the record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 This is such crap. McVay is a young offensive wizard, but McDermott is a nobody. McDermott was a highly ranked HC candidate and a defensive wizard if you will that has rebuilt a D in one season. If you want to go off two games. Which apparently is OK if it's not the Bills but not OK if you're talking about the Bills. They're lying about not throwing the towel in? How? They are 1-1. Same as the great Rams team by your account. Accuse people of lying like some lthird grader who didn't get want he wants. Oh, and the trade was cruel? How ridiculous is that? I didn't like the Watkins trade. But cruel? Ridiculous. And as for Woods he was a FA. Emphasis on free, as in free to look at offers. And he got a really big one for being the second or third WR on the Rams. Will the new regime get three years? Yes. Terry I think has figured out you have to stay the course. The D is looking really good now. The O has to play better. And since the Rams are apparently your pet team, their O looks really good but their D has to play better. You want to make comparisons based on one game, even one play? You can make that look any way you want. I can sit here and say look at Poyer, Hyde, Alexander and say wow, our defense looks really good. How dumb were other teams for letting them go? Do you give the Bills front office credit for bringing them in? I'll bet not. I agree with you about Woods. He was a free agent and the Rams did pay him over market IMO. Why? Because they needed a receiver to help Goff and he was worth more to them than he was to an average team. The Rams had to know that Woods was about the best they could do. There was no way an elite talent like Sammy Watkins would ever be available to them. Whoops. Combined for the two teams we are 5 games into the season and Sammy or the lack of Sammy has turned a would be 2-0 team that "wants to win" into a 1-1 team and a would be 1-2 team into a 2-1 team. I have to believe Sammy couldn't hurt if we had him against Denver. The biggest problem I had with the trade isn't 2017, although that is an issue. It is that they could have had him for a song in 2018 by exercising his option. Short of that they could have waited and franchised him. Instead they lower his trade value.....and then trade him. And their goal is to win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I agree with you about Woods. He was a free agent and the Rams did pay him over market IMO. Why? Because they needed a receiver to help Goff and he was worth more to them than he was to an average team. The Rams had to know that Woods was about the best they could do. There was no way an elite talent like Sammy Watkins would ever be available to them. Whoops. Combined for the two teams we are 5 games into the season and Sammy or the lack of Sammy has turned a would be 2-0 team that "wants to win" into a 1-1 team and a would be 1-2 team into a 2-1 team. I have to believe Sammy couldn't hurt if we had him against Denver. The biggest problem I had with the trade isn't 2017, although that is an issue. It is that they could have had him for a song in 2018 by exercising his option. Short of that they could have waited and franchised him. Instead they lower his trade value.....and then trade him. And their goal is to win? I just said above I did not agree with the Sammy trade. I would have signed him for the one year extension and then seen what happened. The hypocrisy of some around here just gets too much at times. Like now some are saying how smart the Rams were to bring in receivers like Sammy to help a young QB in Goff develop. Yet that is exactly, exactly, exactly what Whaley tried to do when he traded up to draft Sammy, to give a young QB in EJ a receiver to help him develop. When the Bills do that it's wrong, but when another team does that it's right. It just gets ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I just said above I did not agree with the Sammy trade. I would have signed him for the one year extension and then seen what happened. The hypocrisy of some around here just gets too much at times. Like now some are saying how smart the Rams were to bring in receivers like Sammy to help a young QB in Goff develop. Yet that is exactly, exactly, exactly what Whaley tried to do when he traded up to draft Sammy, to give a young QB in EJ a receiver to help him develop. When the Bills do that it's wrong, but when another team does that it's right. It just gets ridiculous. I agree with that point as well but Beane was lying when he said he wants to win now. I'm not even sure he wants to win in the future given his actions, but 2017 is definitely designed to lose. I don't like tanking, but lying to your customers is far worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I think these are out guys for at least 4 years, no matter the recordMuch easier to say today than if year 3 is a flop. Obviously a long way to go on that discussion though and hopefully we don't have to have that talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) I agree with you about Woods. He was a free agent and the Rams did pay him over market IMO. Why? Because they needed a receiver to help Goff and he was worth more to them than he was to an average team. The Rams had to know that Woods was about the best they could do. There was no way an elite talent like Sammy Watkins would ever be available to them. Whoops. Combined for the two teams we are 5 games into the season and Sammy or the lack of Sammy has turned a would be 2-0 team that "wants to win" into a 1-1 team and a would be 1-2 team into a 2-1 team. I have to believe Sammy couldn't hurt if we had him against Denver. The biggest problem I had with the trade isn't 2017, although that is an issue. It is that they could have had him for a song in 2018 by exercising his option. Short of that they could have waited and franchised him. Instead they lower his trade value.....and then trade him. And their goal is to win? 13.26m is hardly a song. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000805913/article/bills-decline-to-pick-up-wr-sammy-watkins-option What part of he wasn't going to re-sign here don't you get? Sure they could try to tag the guy after the 5th year option but we have seen how well that usually works with players itching to get out the door. He didn't deserve a 10m raise here and being hurt again might change his value with LAR. Edited September 22, 2017 by JMF2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I agree with that point as well but Beane was lying when he said he wants to win now. I'm not even sure he wants to win in the future given his actions, but 2017 is definitely designed to lose. I don't like tanking, but lying to your customers is far worse. Sorry, but I think calling someone a liar just because you don't agree with some of his decisions is reprehensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Conjecture. listen, dweeb. It's not conjecture. Some people know more than Twitter. This is fact. He was not resigning here unless we paid him more than anyone. And who wanted him here? No one in the organization and he and his agent didn't want to be here, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpsredemption Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 This trade was the epitome of "we can succeed bringing in our guys to rUn our scheme" just as much as it was to acquire an asset. They want slanting West Coast receivers so they trade a superstar because he didn't fit the mold. A dog crap decision. And btw they've already pigeonholed themselves into using a couple of those picks on receivers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Correction: I referred to the Rams above as having a 1-1 record. They are 2-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 This trade was the epitome of "we can succeed bringing in our guys to rUn our scheme" just as much as it was to acquire an asset. They want slanting West Coast receivers so they trade a superstar because he didn't fit the mold. A dog crap decision. And btw they've already pigeonholed themselves into using a couple of those picks on receivers... Sure previous regime lets assets literally walk out the door but the new guys get value back and take flak. So which way do you want it? I prefer V2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncha Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 We had a poor outing from our WRs against the Jets, aka, the greatest defense in the history of the NFL. Please tell me where Zay and Matthews combined rank Please remind yourself who our QB is, and how horrible the right side of our O-line is....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 When I saw that we had traded Sammy and what the return for him was, and that we could have franchised him at the end of the year I believed the trade was HORRIBLE! Now I'm of the belief it will be EPIC how bad this trade will be remembered. Looking at it from the Rams POV we got a superstar ,number 1 receiver for a second round pick and a CB we don't like. The object of building a team is to acquire guys like Sammy. This just flat looks bad to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 This trade was the epitome of "we can succeed bringing in our guys to rUn our scheme" just as much as it was to acquire an asset. They want slanting West Coast receivers so they trade a superstar because he didn't fit the mold. A dog crap decision. And btw they've already pigeonholed themselves into using a couple of those picks on receivers... this trade was the epitome of the Rams offering us a second and us capitalizing on it counter offering to a guy we wanted in 2018 as it was. This trade was getting something for nothing which is when we always fuss - not getting anything for something. Gilmore wasn't re-signing. Too much bad blood. Thanks Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 So after deciding a 13m 5th year was not good value the Bills then decide to tag him for 18m. Tell me you really thought this was a possibility? I figured he was being shopped and I am not the sharpest tool in the shed Thankfully they got more than 6 used footballs and a couple of crutches in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 also could be he was a supreme pu$sy while he was here, pretending to go down w contact, but went down early, not trying on 50/50 balls, dropping 5 yarders (afraid to be hit) never taking a screen anywhere ( had 1 in 3 seasons) f twatkins. Wrong about Sammy again...as always As a side note: go figure; the key determining factor in production is TARGETS...shocking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 this trade was the epitome of the Rams offering us a second and us capitalizing on it counter offering to a guy we wanted in 2018 as it was. This trade was getting something for nothing which is when we always fuss - not getting anything for something. Gilmore wasn't re-signing. Too much bad blood. Thanks Rex. Assuming you mean Watkins. I fully believe that was his mindset this offseason but I'm not convinced the situation couldn't be salvaged - the Pegulas fired everyone who had created the friction, including the crackpot training staff. Who's to say that Sammy wouldn't have changed his mind? More critically, what is McBeane's plan for player development? They can't keep expelling everyone who isn't a fully bought-in choir boy or they'll end up losing 90% of their games for the next three years. Sooner or later they'll need to adapt to modern athletes and come up with a plan for developing them and keeping them in line. This is a veteran roster after all - it should be doable. The Giants manage OBJ and the Cowboys manage Bryant. Sorry, but I think calling someone a liar just because you don't agree with some of his decisions is reprehensible. If Beane wasn't lying, that means he actually thinks this team can win games this year. Which scenario is worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) listen, dweeb. It's not conjecture. Some people know more than Twitter. This is fact. He was not resigning here unless we paid him more than anyone. And who wanted him here? No one in the organization and he and his agent didn't want to be here, either. I believe that. In fact once Rex was ran out of town I said that Watkins wouldn't be happy with it. Rex treated Sammy like a son, essentially Watkins watched his Daddy get torched by fans, media and then the organization. Watkins gets heated from twitter. It's not far fetched to think that what happened to Rex put a bad taste in Watkins mouth. Edited September 22, 2017 by Commonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Folks: stop ignoring reality. Sammy Watkins flashed elite talent last night. He is one of the best young WRs in the league. The Bills could have controlled his rights for at least the next two years and they let him go for a bag of magic beans. And they have no one who can come close to replacing him. That's it - it's black and white. This is the team we root for. Just accept what has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I believe that. In fact once Rex was ran out of town I said that Watkins wouldn't be happy with it. Rex treated Sammy like a son, essentially Watkins watched his Daddy get torched by fans, media and then the organization. Watkins gets heated from twitter. It's not far fetched to think that what happened to Rex put a bad taste in Watkins mouth. I never had the impression this was tied to him loving Rex. Perhaps the opposite really. Sammy just wanted a functional team, best I could tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Oh boy. It was one good night against an awful defense. A night that ended with an injury. Can't you guys wait like 2 weeks before deciding our new coach and GM should be fired? Many of us who liked the Sammy trade believe he is injury prone and doesn't have the physicality to withstand the NFL. If you want to say last night proved he is "elite," you'd have to also say last night proved he is injury prone and soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I never had the impression this was tied to him loving Rex. Perhaps the opposite really. Sammy just wanted a functional team, best I could tell. I think he wanted a modern strength and conditioning staff that would accommodate his bizarre workout regimen and would coddle his penchant for obscure and repeated ailments, and he wanted to be part of a modern passing offense. Not too atypical of many young millennial athletes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Assuming you mean Watkins. I fully believe that was his mindset this offseason but I'm not convinced the situation couldn't be salvaged - the Pegulas fired everyone who had created the friction, including the crackpot training staff. Who's to say that Sammy wouldn't have changed his mind? More critically, what is McBeane's plan for player development? They can't keep expelling everyone who isn't a fully bought-in choir boy or they'll end up losing 90% of their games for the next three years. Sooner or later they'll need to adapt to modern athletes and come up with a plan for developing them and keeping them in line. This is a veteran roster after all - it should be doable. The Giants manage OBJ and the Cowboys manage Bryant. If Beane wasn't lying, that means he actually thinks this team can win games this year. Which scenario is worse? They are 1-1. How about letting them play the games first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 They are 1-1. How about letting them play the games first? Ok. Wait until you see the abortion of an offense they trot out there on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) Sammy Watkins is F'n crazy! Dumbest trade ever. Edited September 22, 2017 by bmur66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 3 guarantees in life. Death Taxes Scottlaw continuously crying about the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Folks: stop ignoring reality. Sammy Watkins flashed elite talent last night. By this logic Robert Woods flashed elite talent last night. They had equal targets, catches, and practically the same yards too. We all know Woods isn't an elite receiver. But IMO he makes tougher plays than Sammy does. The very first time I've ever seen Sammy fight for a 1st down or TD in the NFL he ends up with a concussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 3 guarantees in life. Death Taxes Scottlaw continuously crying about the Bills. Why attack the poster? Maybe because it's easier than accepting the reality of the team you root for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 By this logic Robert Woods flashed elite talent last night. They had equal targets, catches, and practically the same yards too. We all know Woods isn't an elite receiver. But IMO he makes tougher plays than Sammy does. The very first time I've ever seen Sammy fight for a 1st down or TD in the NFL he ends up with a concussion. Bob Woods flashed talent superior to anyone on the Bills' roster. But Sammy's 47-yard over the shoulder catch was certainly elite. If you can't see that, you have no idea what you're looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 By this logic Robert Woods flashed elite talent last night. They had equal targets, catches, and practically the same yards too. We all know Woods isn't an elite receiver. But IMO he makes tougher plays than Sammy does. The very first time I've ever seen Sammy fight for a 1st down or TD in the NFL he ends up with a concussion. On that note Woods took a much harder hit to the head and played on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 lol because he may have got a concussion? This happens in football. Indeed it does, but Sammy specifically has been injury prone the past few seasons. I still believe he will have a shorter career than most because he doesn't have the body to withstand NFL hits. You can't use one game as evidence of him being an elite talent the Bills let go, while simultaneously saying this one injury doesn't prove a narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 like that bar fight someone last weekend told me about in NoLa from 4 years ago. Right? Can't believe that was never reported, I verified what you and I both heard from someone else. Someone who was there. You talkin' about the Whaley brouhaha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I agree with that point as well but Beane was lying when he said he wants to win now. I'm not even sure he wants to win in the future given his actions, but 2017 is definitely designed to lose. I don't like tanking, but lying to your customers is far worse. Beane may have said that the Bills are not "tanking" just like he denied that the Bills are "rebuilding", but obviously they are. I see that the Jets are also denying that they are "tanking" - just off to a slow start! I don't think that the NFL would be happy with either team if they came right out and admitted that they were/are tanking. This is not the NHL after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Bob Woods flashed talent superior to anyone on the Bills' roster. But Sammy's 47-yard over the shoulder catch was certainly elite. If you can't see that, you have no idea what you're looking at. Sammy is an elite deep ball specialist! I absolutely agree with that. But he isn't an elite receiver. In the TNF gameday thread last night I said he never fights for a 1st down or a TD which the elite receivers will do. Of course as I was typing that he fought 3 or so yards for a TD. I sure felt stupid, until they led him into the medical tent and then the locker room. That pretty much sums up his career with the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Why attack the poster? Maybe because it's easier than accepting the reality of the team you root for. No coach, that's not it. There's a point where it's no longer meaningful to post because it's just the same thing over and over and over again. There's more talking about football than just repeating how much you hate something. You can guarantee that or just guarantee the Bills will continue to lose. They go hand in hand bud. I'll go with the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 You talkin' about the Whaley brouhaha? I'd love to hear more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Bob Woods flashed talent superior to anyone on the Bills' roster. But Sammy's 47-yard over the shoulder catch was certainly elite. If you can't see that, you have no idea what you're looking at. For me it's simple: Sammy does all the things that you want an elite WR to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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