A Few Thoughts About the Panthers Game

[Virgil]

This was the kind of game that I needed to take a few hours and cool down about before really looking at the stats, replays, and notes. I'm glad to see the new members and quick reactions with plethora of anti-Tyrod threads. I'm going to do this one a little different this week and end each point with an end result thought. If you are looking for a bashing thread about TT or anyone else, please look elsewhere. That's not what this is about.

1 - McDermott - I am overall very happy with McDermott through two games. The discipline of this team so far in regards to penalties, getting plays in, and just overall fight has been a big turnaround from Rex. However, he made some head scratching clock decisions today that I don't quite understand. At the end of the first half, he let an unnecessary 17 seconds come off the clock before taking a time out before the Panthers punted the ball back to us. He used the second one after 3rd down and we ended up not making any attempt to move the ball once we received it. I don't understand the point of using the Time Outs unless he was hoping for the Panthers to make a mistake. At the end of the game, I think everyone can pick a moment where they think we should have used a time out. However, Zay makes that catch, we need that last timeout at the 4 yard line to get another play in. End Result - You could take a lot of different sides on his calls, but I don't see where the outcome of the game was decided because of it.

2 - Poyer - Does anyone disagree with him being our MVP through 2 games on defense? I didn't know who this guy was and he just continues to be everywhere. His hit on Benjamin was clean, perfectly timed, and prevented a touchdown. He had a chance on two int's, but neither were easy plays. This guy is the best pickup we had and I'm just loving watching him play out there.

3 - Fullbacks - I'm still trying to understand why we signed both Tolbert and DiMarco. I watch when these guys are on the field every play and I don't see anything that stands out, especially for the money we pay them. DiMarco, at most, picks up a blocker downfield, but nothing Felton or anyone else couldn't do. I was expecting to see more Pistol looks or sweep tosses where these guys get out in front, but nothing so far. Tolbert as our 2nd RB is a concern for me because of games like this. He's a good compliment to Shady. But when Shady is ineffective, he's not going to change the game for us either. When I look at his salary vs Jonathan Williams, I'm just not seeing it still.

4 - Her life in a nutshell

No way would she want it to change me
It's not that easy 'cause
My time is often decided for me
For me

 

5 - Dareus - The Panthers lost their starting Center before the game and you'd think our top 3 paid DT would tee off on these guys. Of the 6 sacks, none of them was from pressure up the middle. I understand that DT's eat up blocks for other players to get going, but you see Kyle all over the field making plays, yet nothing from Dareus. Unless he is the ultimate martyr, I'm just not seeing it from him. Yes, he hurt his ankle, but he was right back out there later on. We should be hearing his name on some lever and we aren't. I'm hating his contract right now as I feel like we can get more for less. Worst case, same for less.

 

6 - Penalties - I'm can't stress enough how much of a turnaround we've made in this area and how refreshing it is. The only real penalty that hurt us was on that shouldn't be called. I know I can be a homer, but that wasn't even close to a 50/50 call and way too important to the game to throw that flag. That easily killed the momentum of the drive. Take that out of the equation, and strong overall showing.

 

7 - Offensive Scheme - We didn't get a first down until 4 minutes into the 2nd quarter. We didn't get our first non-broken play first down until a few minutes after that. We didn't get into field goal range until the one we made. And we never made it into the red zone. For a team that is rushing first, we were absolutely shut down. On the passing plays, our first reads were 3 yard routes or routes short of the first down mark. The entire first half didn't look like execution issues to me, but just poor playcalls. I was mentally yelling for them to call some misdirection plays, which they did in the second half and started moving the ball. I don't know why it took a whole half to get to that point. End Result - Outside of a few drops and overmatched blocking schemes, it looks like the team executed the plays being called which makes me seriously question the playcalls.

 

8 - Defensive Scheme - We gave up a total of 9 points to a team who was playing in their home opener. There were moments where it looked like the game was going to get out of hand, but we were never down more than 6 points. Yes, Cam broke at least 3 tackles for a loss. Yes, we had soft zone in the middle of the field again. Yes, we didn't create any turnovers. My biggest complaint was on their last field goal drive. On the previous two drives, we were sending pressure and getting to Cam each time, but on that drive, we just rushed 4 and they moved right down the field. What happened? We fortunately had 1 of our 2 goal line stands on that drive. End Result - 9 points given up and could have won it at the end. All you can ask for?

 

9 - Missed Opportunities - In one score games, sometimes it only takes one play to come away with a win. There were multiple plays where we got our hands on the ball but couldn't come down with it. No matter your body position, if you have both hands on the ball, as and NFL player, you need to make that catch. I'm not just coming down on Zay because it was more than once on the defense too. Shaq had a chance to bat down a ball on a 3rd down pass from Cam, but instead was focused on landing his post-throw hit. End Result - We are in position to make these plays and something we will get better at with time. I'm excited to see where this defense will go and Zay evolve as a receiver

 

10 - Tyrod - I'm almost tempted to leave this out of the review because some people can't help their crusade against him. However, he is the qb and the field general on offense. I'm going to start this with a question: Besides the last throw to Zay, how many bad throws did you see TT make today? For me, I can't remember a single play I wish he could have back. That's throughout the entire game people. He made the throws that the plays called for and hit guys over the middle again, outside, and scrambled when needed. He's not an elite QB and no one said he was. But he did what was asked. I'm curious to see the All-22 review later this week, because I think people will be surprised at what he was given. As for the last play of the game, I haven't seen anyone call out that this was an anticipatory throw. He put it up before the break outside and put it within a yard of the receiver. You want to tell me that half the QB's in the league know exactly where a rookie WR is going to position his body for a catch and then make that throw 100% of the time? Could it have been better? Sure. Was Zay able to get both hands on the ball? Yes. Would that have won the game? Maybe, as it was on the 4 yard line. End result - If you want to put the whole game on one play, I think you lose credibility as a poster. If you can't look at everything up until that point as well, and put some ownership on the play he did make and what Zay did and didn't do, also on you. TT can be better. TT may not get us to the promise land. But in a game where we had absolutely ZERO running game and plays where Mills got destroyed in pass protection, and where a bad call prevents us with 1st and 10 from the 22 with 2 TO's, I think TT did okay. Not great, okay. Those who think Peterman would have won the game, please give me the powerball numbers too.

 

Overall End Result - We beat the spread, showed great defense, and have concerns on offense. A lot of good teams are 1-1 right now. I think we have a good test next week at home against Denver and I expect a similar game to today. Please keep reacting about our second game of the season like it's the end of days. It makes it easier to tell who I should ignore. Lastly, no new posts during games. Let's try that again next week.

 

18 and 1, here we come. Go Bills

[r00tabaga]

Love these....thx

[boyst]

why was dareus out so much? he was on the sideline at least 10 minutes doing drills with groy.

 

the shady injury was confusing because we saw him holding his hands and looking not too happy then back in? but, he missed some key snaps and plays. tolbert had no business in there on the 3rd downs, nor did oleary.

 

if we are going to use 2 TE's and not stretch one down the seam than i don't know what the !@#$ we're doing. you then play action and also motion one out.

[Virgil]

why was dareus out so much? he was on the sideline at least 10 minutes doing drills with groy.

 

the shady injury was confusing because we saw him holding his hands and looking not too happy then back in? but, he missed some key snaps and plays. tolbert had no business in there on the 3rd downs, nor did oleary.

 

if we are going to use 2 TE's and not stretch one down the seam than i don't know what the !@#$ we're doing. you then play action and also motion one out.

 

1 - Dareus had an ankle injury, which is why he was out for a bit

 

2 - It's hard to have play action when the defense has absolutely no respect for your rushing attack

[EmotionallyUnstable]

#7 on steroids.

 

It is what it is. Thank you

[26CornerBlitz]

Complaining about Dareus for the 2nd week in a row after a great day the the Bills' D? Not getting the point.

[boyst]

 

1 - Dareus had an ankle injury, which is why he was out for a bit

 

2 - It's hard to have play action when the defense has absolutely no respect for your rushing attack

we didn't do what we do best with the running game. taylor held the ball and stayed in the pocket well. i was screaming at it. the all22 will show it. he had wr's not getting open or separation. they kept calling short plays and nothing to go deep.

 

carolina was wide open to be taken advantage of deep. we need to go deep.

Complaining about Dareus for the 2nd week in a row after a great day the the Bills' D? Not getting the point.

whats you point?

 

you can take a great player like dareus and make a team much better.

 

me thinks its you not getting it.

[Virgil]

Complaining about Dareus for the 2nd week in a row after a great day the the Bills' D? Not getting the point.

 

I called out the end result of only giving up 9 points and the D overall being good. But again like I said, you see everyone making plays but him. For his salary, unless he is the ultimate martyr and freeing up everyone else, I'm just not seeing it.

 

His contract, his profile, all of it brings more attention to him and he's not paying off IMO.

[boyst]

mccoy was also wide open on the outside there, but taylor couldn't see him

[NewEra]

10- you don't wish that Tyrod threw the ball to the wide open O'Leary instead of the 1 yard pass to Dimarco on the sideline. O'Leary was WIIIIIIIIDE open 5 yards behind him. It was a big big play imo.

 

He's just not a very good QB. He made some nice throws when Carolina was giving us everything underneath with 2 minutes left. Most QBs can make the throws Carolina gave him on that drive. He is what we knew he was. He's not any better than that. A bridge QB leading us to another top 12 pick. Don't act like he's any better than that.

[The Frankish Reich]

Nice work. Bill from NYC should be proud!

 

Poyer: along with Humber the two big pleasant surprises on D so far.

 

Dareus: I was trying to watch him when he was out there, and when I was able to he looked effective in the "occupies the Center (and sometimes a Guard too) way" that allows the LBs to make plays. I know that's not all we'd like from him, but it's better than the last couple years.

 

The fullbacks: DiMarco in particular has been criminally underutilized. Tyrod is desperate for some help in the passing game, and the new Capt Checkdown needs a Checkdown specialist, which is what DiMarco should be. I have no idea why he's not better integrated into the game plan. Tolbert for me was always a pure short yardage carry guy, and the offense was so bad today it was always 3rd and long. He's a useful player, but he's miscast as McCoy's primary backup. This was the weirdest personnel decision of the offseason, and so far, it's playing out as one of the worst.

 

Tyrod: you are far too kind. He was awful. You're right, he didn't make many terrible passes. But that's because he barely threw the ball downfield at all. I can't find it now, but Rodak (I think) tweeted about how many yards in the air Tyrod's completions went for today - it was shockingly low ... just over 2 yards? That just isn't getting it done, and I refuse to believe that someone wasn't open down the field on many of those plays where he dumped the ball off or ran for a short gain (or loss). At the risk of incurring the wrath of his fans: this was Tebow-like in how risk averse Tyrod was, except that Tebow would actually force the running game to work. His stat line doesn't show it (he's one of those guys whose QB rating always looks ok because he is so risk averse), but I thought this was Tyrod's single worst performance as a Bill.

Edited September 18, 2017 by The Frankish Reich

[HappyDays]

Great recap Virgil, I appreciate the level head and agree with all your points.

 

10- you don't wish that Tyrod threw the ball to the wide open O'Leary instead of the 1 yard pass to Dimarco on the sideline. O'Leary was WIIIIIIIIDE open 5 yards behind him. It was a big big play imo. .

That was a zone option play and he was never going to look in that direction. How about DiMarco catches the ball and we move the chains? Plays don't always go perfectly in football. You have to take what you can get. Once again too many missed opportunities today. That drop by DiMarco and 2 more by Zay Jones. In a tight game with a lot of 3rd downs due to unbalanced 1st down play calling, those drops matter.

 

I have no clue if receivers were running open or not, the All-22 will be very interesting.

[yall]

Great post overall. I have to agree with others regarding Tyrod though. I'm convinced the All 22 will show a bunch of missed opportunities.

[Virgil]

Nice work. Bill from NYC should be proud!

 

Poyer: along with Humber the two big pleasant surprises on D so far.

 

Dareus: I was trying to watch him when he was out there, and when I was able to he looked effective in the "occupies the Center (and sometimes a Guard too) way" that allows the LBs to make plays. I know that's not all we'd like from him, but it's better than the last couple years.

 

The fullbacks: DiMarco in particular has been criminally underutilized. Tyrod is desperate for some help in the passing game, and the new Capt Checkdown needs a Checkdown specialist, which is what DiMarco should be. I have no idea why he's not better integrated into the game plan. Tolbert for me was always a pure short yardage carry guy, and the offense was so bad today it was always 3rd and long. He's a useful player, but he's miscast as McCoy's primary backup. This was the weirdest personnel decision of the offseason, and so far, it's playing out as one of the worst.

 

Tyrod: you are far too kind. He was awful. You're right, he didn't make many terrible passes. But that's because he barely threw the ball downfield at all. I can't find it now, but Rodak (I think) tweeted about how many yards in the air Tyrod's completions went for today - it was shockingly low ... just over 2 yards? That just isn't getting it done, and I refuse to believe that someone wasn't open down the field on many of those plays where he dumped the ball off or ran for a short gain (or loss). At the risk of incurring the wrath of his fans: this was Tebow-like in how risk averse Tyrod was, except that Tebow would actually force the running game to work. His stat line doesn't show it (he's one of those guys whose QB rating always looks ok because he is so risk averse), but I thought this was Tyrod's single worst performance as a Bill.

Thank you. I'm eagerly awaiting the all-22 review. I just can't crush TT from the tv review. If I'm wrong and there were guys flying around open downfield, I'll own it. I just didn't see it.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Is anyone really surprised?

 

Their offensive scheme was almost identical to that vs the Jets minus the success in the run game.

[BillsFan130]

I agree 100 percent on that last throw to Jones. He threw it before jones even turned, and it hit him in the hands. Was by no means a perfect throw, but under the circumstances I really don't think it was bad

[BmarvB]

 

1 - Dareus had an ankle injury, which is why he was out for a bit

 

2 - It's hard to have play action when the defense has absolutely no respect for your rushing attack

They had no respect for our PASSING attack so the stacked up against the run

[VaMilBill]

I'm heartbroken by this loss but encouraged on several fronts. McDermott, although he had some issues with clock management, I think he had a plan behind the TOs. I love his demeanor and how he has brought discipline and a better attitude to this team.

 

I may get crucified, but Tyrod was not as bad as we thought. Yes he needs to throw the ball downfield more but there were several plays where he held the ball and I couldn't find a single WR open. I still think he's the best option for us.

 

Defense was awesome. Difference between a good defense and a great defense is great defenses get takeaways. We didn't today. We need to capitalize on those because our offense needs more opportunities cause it's not reliable or consistent.

 

Zay had a rough game but I think the future is bright for him. I think Dennison needs to generate a more downfield offense to match our teams strengths instead of all these 5 yard outs.

 

I will say though, which is most important, this team is getting better and heading in the right direction. Stay positive

[ganesh]

I agree with you. The execution was there. A tough Carolina front seven was overwhelming our OL especially on the right side, where the pressure was constant. With below average receivers, Tyrod's cupboard is bare. Defense played lights out. I am liking this Sean guy out there!

[baskingridgebillsfan]

we will not know until the all 22 but he held the ball a lot again.

[boyst]

[Virgil]

What am I missing here?

[NewEra]

Great recap Virgil, I appreciate the level head and agree with all your points.

 

 

That was a zone option play and he was never going to look in that direction. How about DiMarco catches the ball and we move the chains? Plays don't always go perfectly in football. You have to take what you can get. Once again too many missed opportunities today. That drop by DiMarco and 2 more by Zay Jones. In a tight game with a lot of 3rd downs due to unbalanced 1st down play calling, those drops matter.

 

I have no clue if receivers were running open or not, the All-22 will be very interesting.

It was a zone option play and he was never going to look in that direction? He was 5 yards away wide open. Wiiiiiiide open. Tyrod may never look at that read. Very good QBs would've hit him. He saw that 2 defenders were in his face. Dimarco was covered. QB should hit the hot route when he saw both of them rush

[Not at the table Karlos]

Complaining about Dareus for the 2nd week in a row after a great day the the Bills' D? Not getting the point.

especially while he's injured.

 

 

Good write up. Poyer is awesome. Kind of looks like steph curry with his helmet on.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Not at the table Karlos

[BeginnersMind]

I'm alarmed at the offense's regression in a year. Same line, RB, and QB. The WRs are not as good but is Dennison putting the O in a position to make plays?

 

Carolina was stacking 8 in the box and the offense had no ability to get 7 yard in routes or anything on the sideline in the passing game. Tyrod's strength is not a 3 step drop and throw. I understand that's not his style but it needs to happen.

 

Shady said he was to blame yesterday but I can't imagine how. He had nowhere to run. No matter where he picked to run, there were more Panthers coming towards him than Bills to block.

It was a zone option play and he was never going to look in that direction? He was 5 yards away wide open. Wiiiiiiide open. Tyrod may never look at that read. Very good QBs would've hit him. He saw that 2 defenders were in his face. Dimarco was covered. QB should hit the hot route when he saw both of them rush

 

A better throw and it's an easy TD. I don't have a bead on Jones enough to know if that's a catch he'll usually make, but yesterday he didn't make the tough catch.

 

You know who makes that catch? Robert Woods.

Edited September 18, 2017 by BeginnersMind

[HappyDays]

A better throw and it's an easy TD. I don't have a bead on Jones enough to know if that's a catch he'll usually make, but yesterday he didn't make the tough catch.

 

You know who makes that catch? Robert Woods.

I know it's fun to pretend every Bills player who leaves the team is elite. But yesterday on a single drive for the Rams, Woods took 2 penalties (unnecessary roughness and OPI - 25 yards total) and then dropped a sure TD pass.

[BuffaloMatt]

Enjoyed the read. Good take. Where can I send my $2.99? Thanks again. Go Bills.

[HappyDays]

It was a zone option play and he was never going to look in that direction? He was 5 yards away wide open. Wiiiiiiide open. Tyrod may never look at that read. Very good QBs would've hit him. He saw that 2 defenders were in his face. Dimarco was covered. QB should hit the hot route when he saw both of them rush

https://mobile.twitter.com/cover_1_/status/909618954624258048

 

Watch the 2nd view starting at 0:19.

 

At which point should Tyrod have thrown the ball to O'Leary? When his body was turned running in the complete opposite direction with several Panthers sitting underneath? That would have been a pick. O'Leary wasn't in the play because it was a zone option read like I said. Tyrod thought for a second he had it with his legs, but Coleman closed so he throws it to DiMarco... who drops it.

 

And there's a better question - why does DiMarco not catch a ball that hits him cleanly in the hands? The defender didn't touch him or get his hands on the ball. This is the second 3rd down drop of the game. Do you really think when the coaches look at this play in the film room, they will come away blaming Tyrod? Wow.

[pkwwjd]

I'm heartbroken by this loss but encouraged on several fronts. McDermott, although he had some issues with clock management, I think he had a plan behind the TOs. I love his demeanor and how he has brought discipline and a better attitude to this team.

I may get crucified, but Tyrod was not as bad as we thought. Yes he needs to throw the ball downfield more but there were several plays where he held the ball and I couldn't find a single WR open. I still think he's the best option for us.

Defense was awesome. Difference between a good defense and a great defense is great defenses get takeaways. We didn't today. We need to capitalize on those because our offense needs more opportunities cause it's not reliable or consistent.

Zay had a rough game but I think the future is bright for him. I think Dennison needs to generate a more downfield offense to match our teams strengths instead of all these 5 yard outs.

I will say though, which is most important, this team is getting better and heading in the right direction. Stay positive

It was interesting to hear the commentators belittle McD for waiting until Carolina lined up before calling TO at the end of the game, but when Carolina did that on the Bills' last drive, it was a smart play by the coach. McD made the smart play.

[SoTier]

 

1 - Dareus had an ankle injury, which is why he was out for a bit

 

2 - It's hard to have play action when the defense has absolutely no respect for your rushing attack

 

Or your downfield passing game.

[BeginnersMind]

I know it's fun to pretend every Bills player who leaves the team is elite. But yesterday on a single drive for the Rams, Woods took 2 penalties (unnecessary roughness and OPI - 25 yards total) and then dropped a sure TD pass.

I'm not a believer that Woods is anything more than a solid number 3 WR but he was pretty good at hauling in TT's errant throws.

 

Too early and too few chances to judge Jones.

Edited September 18, 2017 by BeginnersMind

[bobobonators]

Great thread Virgil. What concerned me most about the offense yesterday was the following:

 

1. The Panthers DL got penetration on almost every play. We lost the LOS battle badly on the offensive side yesterday.

 

2. We didnt have an in-game adjustment for Carolina's defensive game plan. I would have liked to see more misdirection plays and QB rollouts. We used very little of the run option that has been unstoppable for over a year. The one play i recall us using it yesterday Tyrod held it and effectively ran for 6/7 yds. We needed more of that yesterday to simply move the chains more, if anything. But we didnt.

 

3. When it was clear that we werent going to be able to run the ball we should have started going into more spread formations on 1st down and 2nd down earlier in the game instead of waiting until the end of the game.

 

4. The defense was a monster yesterday. Not a bad thing to say about that unit. The best game Hughes has had in a long time in my opinion. We need Hughes to continue having games like that.

[simool]

Great thread.... Again.

 

Nail on the head with the reduction of penalties, improved discipline, and the fight in this team. I definitely enjoy watching them. We obviously made a huge leap in coaching. The rest will come in time. Hell I have been a die-hard for 30+ years, what is a few more years.

[Heitz]

 

Overall End Result - We beat the spread, showed great defense, and have concerns on offense. A lot of good teams are 1-1 right now. I think we have a good test next week at home against Denver and I expect a similar game to today. Please keep reacting about our second game of the season like it's the end of days. It makes it easier to tell who I should ignore. Lastly, no new posts during games. Let's try that again next week.

 

18 and 1, here we come. Go Bills

 

Thanks for the sane take Virgil.

 

I'm with you on the End Result - I know that Carolina didn't have a great record last year, but they're still a top team in this league. If we can somehow figure out how to manufacture some points, this team could be fun to watch as the year goes on...

 

[Mrbojanglezs]

Hard to have bad throws when you throw it 8 yards max. I could do that accurately

[mannc]

 

1 - McDermott - I am overall very happy with McDermott through two games. The discipline of this team so far in regards to penalties, getting plays in, and just overall fight has been a big turnaround from Rex. However, he made some head scratching clock decisions today that I don't quite understand. At the end of the first half, he let an unnecessary 17 seconds come off the clock before taking a time out before the Panthers punted the ball back to us. He used the second one after 3rd down and we ended up not making any attempt to move the ball once we received it. I don't understand the point of using the Time Outs unless he was hoping for the Panthers to make a mistake. At the end of the game, I think everyone can pick a moment where they think we should have used a time out. However, Zay makes that catch, we need that last timeout at the 4 yard line to get another play in. End Result - You could take a lot of different sides on his calls, but I don't see where the outcome of the game was decided because of it.

 

 

Although it's fair to question McDermott's clock management, it wasn't clearly wrong, far too much is being made of it, and it definitely did not cost us the game.

 

On the other hand, "Riverboat Ron" Rivera almost gifted the Bills another game by kicking the 19 yard FG to give the Panthers a 6-point lead with more than two minutes left on the clock. What's amazing is that this is the exact same mistake Rivera made to hand the Bills a victory in the EJ comeback game, the last time these teams played. Apparently, Rivera did not learn his lesson, and this one almost cost the Panthers another game. There are so many reasons to go for the touchdown there that I don't even know where to start. First of all, there is around a 50% chance of converting and if you score the TD, the game is over. Even if you don't convert, the Bills have the ball on their own 1-yard line and have to go 75 yards in two minutes and then attempt a longish FG (with a shaky kicker) just to send the game to OT. On the other hand, if you kick the FG, the Bills still have to go 75 yards and have to get a TD, but if they succeed, your team loses. Although the Panthers of course hung on, Rivera's boneheaded decision significantly decreased the Panthers' chances of winning. To me, that sort of brain-dead coaching decision is much worse (and inexcusable) than poor clock management.

Edited September 18, 2017 by mannc

[BeginnersMind]

I wanted the timeout but as it was, they Bills would have needed the last one if Jones hauls in that catch or if a receiver catches the ball in bounds, to give them more chances at the end zone. It was not clearly the wrong call.