Rosen may not enter 18' draft and that is ok

[BADOLBILZ]

How about Cam Newton going to a crap organization in a crappy, small-market town? He didn't make a peep.

 

Newton wasn't even a first round lock until the postseason evaluations........but he is also a southern kid and he had character concerns..........that was by no means a square-peg fit for him(though the Panthers have pretty much worn him out).

 

JOSH ROSEN.......to BUFFALO? Um not likely unless he suffers a pretty big humbling the next couple years.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

Kelly was a real angel off the field.

People love mentioning this. Simply put, it was a different era. The world is a different place than the one Kelly played in. Social media and the internet have changed the world. Ones actions are now broadcast to the world instantly. Behavior that once flew under the radar is now public knowledge, this creates distractions that wouldn't have existed otherwise. Questionable off field behavior doesn't matter when it's not a locker room distraction. Back in the day what happened off the field could stay there. These days what happens off the field is immediately brought into the locker room.

[Estro]

Josh Rosen is the apple of my eye when it comes to QB. I think he is the best QB prospect since Andrew Luck. The 2 most important traits in good QB's, IMO, are accuracy and the ability to step up and slide around int he pocket & I think he excels @ both.

 

If he doesn't come out in '18 I wouldn't be too upset though. The Bills are probably a 6-8 win team this year so getting into the top 3 would cost a fortune. We have a lot of draft ammo in '18 but with some smart draft day trades maybe we can move around a little and pick up extra high picks for the '19 draft if that's when these stud QB's eventually come out.

[yungmack]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000830336/article/uclas-mora-doesnt-believe-josh-rosen-will-enter-2018-draft

 

I think he and others who are Jr.s might wait to see what the draft order is before declaring. I will say it again, I want Baker Mayfield. I know Lincoln Riley is going to work with him on a few more pro specific things this year. I feel the kid could be the next Favre and I think he would excel in our WCO.

Why would you want another Favre? Gunslingers are fun for the fans but it's the steady, rather dull QBs who win multiple Super Bowls and whose teams have consistent success. Think Bradshaw, Montana, Aikman and Brady.

[Joe Miner]

 

Newton wasn't even a first round lock until the postseason evaluations........but he is also a southern kid and he had character concerns..........that was by no means a square-peg fit for him(though the Panthers have pretty much worn him out).

 

JOSH ROSEN.......to BUFFALO? Um not likely unless he suffers a pretty big humbling the next couple years.

While at the end of the college football season that year, many experts had Gabbert ahead of Newton on their boards, just about all reputable experts that I remember had Newton in the first.

 

Even Kiper's first mock in the middle of January had Newton at 10. Well before the combine and pro days for complete postseason evaluations.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Can we restart this thread following the college season when possibly one or more Trubiskys come out of nowhere and all these potential wonders have shown or improved their wares and stayed healthy? What a question!

[BADOLBILZ]

While at the end of the college football season that year, many experts had Gabbert ahead of Newton on their boards, just about all reputable experts that I remember had Newton in the first.

 

Even Kiper's first mock in the middle of January had Newton at 10. Well before the combine and pro days for complete postseason evaluations.

 

I seem to remember Kiper equating Newton to Akili Smith just before the draft........yep........he was sold on Newton.

 

Fwiw I was on record here as saying the draft was Newton or bust for the Bills.......having their highest draft pick since Bruce Smith and not getting that franchise QB was a killer.

[BobbyC81]

Allen is my favorite QB in this class right now.

Me too, but I'm biased as he's the cousin of a recent co-worker.

[YoloinOhio]

Everyone talks tough at this time of year. College HCs are always pushing for their guys to come back too. We will get to December and see a bunch of guys pulling out of the San Diego Credit Union Poinsettia Bowl. It's a new day.

this

[DriveFor1Outta5]

Me too, but I'm biased as he's the cousin of a recent co-worker.

I like Allen a lot as well. He seems like he'd be a perfect playing in Buffalo. I don't worry about the small school issue as much as I used. In fact small school players are often getting more experience with pro style offense than their counterparts at the elite programs. I take it that his cousin was a pleasant co worker. I worked with Tom Brady's cousin, he made the workplace seem a bit deflated.

[Coach Tuesday]

 

I seem to remember Kiper equating Newton to Akili Smith just before the draft........yep........he was sold on Newton.

 

Fwiw I was on record here as saying the draft was Newton or bust for the Bills.......having their highest draft pick since Bruce Smith and not getting that franchise QB was a killer.

 

The irony of a guy named "Luck" avoiding the draft and causing the Bills to lose out on Cam - it kills me. The Bills ran out of Luck AGAIN.

[BillsFan17]

I'm sorry, but I also don't buy into these QBS making some sort of Elway/Manning type power move.

 

Plus, in the case of Eli, both teams still ended up with high end QB prospects.

 

I didn't see Rivers refuse to play for the Chargers after the trade, and by all accounts was a very highly touted spec in his own right.

 

Furthermore, the draft has really evolved into such a spectacle and you see what Goodell has done with it.

 

If players start dictating where they want to play and start to diminish that product...

Edited August 17, 2017 by BillsFan17

[mjt328]

Sounds like Buffalo Bills luck.

 

We make all these moves and purge our roster for draft picks, then the top QBs in the draft decide to stay in school.

 

After the season is over, we will probably hear our coaching staff clamoring for "more speed" on the outside.

Then we will use our 2nd Round pick from the Rams to overdraft a track star receiver.

Edited August 17, 2017 by mjt328

[BadLandsMeanie]

I think whatever Rosen's personality is, and however smart he is supposed to be, he hasn't been smart enough to keep some of the more annoying or controversial parts of his personality secret.

 

That is not the best thing to do if your aim is to be taken way high in the NFL draft.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

The irony of a guy named "Luck" avoiding the draft and causing the Bills to lose out on Cam - it kills me. The Bills ran out of Luck AGAIN.

 

 

Yeah but honestly I am much less concerned about whether they enter the draft than their agents trying to direct them into better situations.

 

Buffalo is not an attractive place for a QB looking to put up passing numbers and win at the same time.......which is the ultimate goal.

 

So if you can avoid the Bills.......your agent will do all he can.

 

Whether people like to hear it or not......not having playmakers in the passing game hurts the recruitment process.

 

Remember the late season game where the Bills pounded the playoff race competing Tebow and the Broncos mercilessly at the Ralph?

 

Well......when Peyton Manning was looking for a new home that offseason Buffalo wasn't even a consideration despite the fact that they had a better roster at the time than Denver.

 

In great part no doubt because Denver had passing game assets and the Bills cupboard of pass catchers consisted of an overfed #2 WR and a bunch of #5-#6 guys.

[teef]

 

 

Yeah but honestly I am much less concerned about whether they enter the draft than their agents trying to direct them into better situations.

 

Buffalo is not an attractive place for a QB looking to put up passing numbers and win at the same time.......which is the ultimate goal.

 

So if you can avoid the Bills.......your agent will do all he can.

 

Whether people like to hear it or not......not having playmakers in the passing game hurts the recruitment process.

 

Remember the late season game where the Bills pounded the playoff race competing Tebow and the Broncos mercilessly at the Ralph?

 

Well......when Peyton Manning was looking for a new home that offseason Buffalo wasn't even a consideration despite the fact that they had a better roster at the time than Denver.

 

In great part no doubt because Denver had passing game assets and the Bills cupboard of pass catchers consisted of an overfed #2 WR and a bunch of #5-#6 guys.

this is trying a bit hard...no?

[GG]

 

 

 

Well......when Peyton Manning was looking for a new home that offseason Buffalo wasn't even a consideration despite the fact that they had a better roster at the time than Denver.

 

In great part no doubt because Denver had passing game assets and the Bills cupboard of pass catchers consisted of an overfed #2 WR and a bunch of #5-#6 guys.

 

How much of that lack of consideration was because a certain someone in Grosse Pointe would never consider paying $20 million/season?

[aristocrat]

every year this comes up. it's just clickbait news. this leads to the insurance on their body stories. then it comes to talking to their family after the year and then getting a 10 mil signing bonus is the choice.

[Coach Tuesday]

 

 

Yeah but honestly I am much less concerned about whether they enter the draft than their agents trying to direct them into better situations.

 

Buffalo is not an attractive place for a QB looking to put up passing numbers and win at the same time.......which is the ultimate goal.

 

So if you can avoid the Bills.......your agent will do all he can.

 

Whether people like to hear it or not......not having playmakers in the passing game hurts the recruitment process.

 

Remember the late season game where the Bills pounded the playoff race competing Tebow and the Broncos mercilessly at the Ralph?

 

Well......when Peyton Manning was looking for a new home that offseason Buffalo wasn't even a consideration despite the fact that they had a better roster at the time than Denver.

 

In great part no doubt because Denver had passing game assets and the Bills cupboard of pass catchers consisted of an overfed #2 WR and a bunch of #5-#6 guys.

 

I think you're right about this. Josh Rosen ain't ruining his brand by coming to Buffalo.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

How much of that lack of consideration was because a certain someone in Grosse Pointe would never consider paying $20 million/season?

 

 

Ralph wasn't cheap.......he'd outspend anyone if he thought he could win big...........but if not, he'd rather pocket the cash because he enjoyed winning owners meetings with his black inked books and with minimal f*cks given to his progressive young counterparts.

 

By the time he got to the end he was TRYING DESPERATELY to pay a top coach........remember him sending Russ to track down Shanny?.........he would have made Bill Cowher the highest paid coach in the league..........but they just had no interest because of his track record of....to paraphrase Chuck Knox.....bringing coaches there to die. Hell he had mediocre candidates dodging interviews by then........that's why they had Chan in the first place.

 

No doubt he'd have paid Manning at that point but the Bills weren't even in the conversation.

[Augie]

I think whatever Rosen's personality is, and however smart he is supposed to be, he hasn't been smart enough to keep some of the more annoying or controversial parts of his personality secret.

 

That is not the best thing to do if your aim is to be taken way high in the NFL draft.

 

Maybe he's so smart that he makes these comments so he can avoid being a Jet!

 

That's genius!!!

[GG]

 

 

Ralph wasn't cheap.......he'd outspend anyone if he thought he could win big...........but if not, he'd rather pocket the cash because he enjoyed winning owners meetings with his black inked books and with minimal f*cks given to his progressive young counterparts.

 

By the time he got to the end he was TRYING DESPERATELY to pay a top coach........remember him sending Russ to track down Shanny?.........he would have made Bill Cowher the highest paid coach in the league..........but they just had no interest because of his track record of....to paraphrase Chuck Knox.....bringing coaches there to die. Hell he had mediocre candidates dodging interviews by then........that's why they had Chan in the first place.

 

No doubt he'd have paid Manning at that point but the Bills weren't even in the conversation.

 

Wilson was willing to make one big contract splash. Nothing in his history suggests that he'd be willing to pay $20 million to Manning two years after inking Fitz to a big contract.

 

Never never gonna happen.

[BADOLBILZ]

this is trying a bit hard...no?

 

 

It's pointing out the fact that avoiding Buffalo.....passively or otherwise....... is not really anything new.

 

It's not the people or the town......it's the management and the poor work they've done.

 

I'd give you examples of the QB's dodging the Bills on draft day but the Bills have LITERALLY never traded up ahead of their original slot or even just stayed put and selected a QB with their first pick in round 1 in any draft going back to 1961.

 

They've taken a couple with second first round picks(Kelly and Losman) and traded back and then taken one(Manuel)........but that's it........never all-in on one college QB.

 

Wilson was willing to make one big contract splash. Nothing in his history suggests that he'd be willing to pay $20 million to Manning two years after inking Fitz to a big contract.

 

Never never gonna happen.

 

I know you are new to the subject.......but all I can tell you is that Ralph MANY times had the league's highest paid player at certain positions.......Jim Kelly, Bruce Smith, Thurman, Mario and I am sure there are others.........so your take........is as usual, baseless.

[GG]

 

 

 

I know you are new to the subject.......but all I can tell you is that Ralph MANY times had the league's highest paid player at certain positions.......Jim Kelly, Bruce Smith, Thurman, Mario and I am sure there are others.........so your take........is as usual, baseless.

 

Isn't it great to argue out of both sides of the mouth to always appear to be right?

 

So if Ralph C Wilson was so generous with player contracts as you claim in this post, what does that say about your decade long crusade about Peters? Marshawn? McGahee?

[teef]

 

 

It's pointing out the fact that avoiding Buffalo.....passively or otherwise....... is not really anything new.

 

It's not the people or the town......it's the management and the poor work they've done.

 

I'd give you examples of the QB's dodging the Bills on draft day but the Bills have LITERALLY never traded up ahead of their original slot or even just stayed put and selected a QB with their first pick in round 1 in any draft going back to 1961.

 

They've taken a couple with second first round picks(Kelly and Losman) and traded back and then taken one(Manuel)........but that's it........never all-in on one college QB.

 

I know you are new to the subject.......but all I can tell you is that Ralph MANY times had the league's highest paid player at certain positions.......Jim Kelly, Bruce Smith, Thurman, Mario and I am sure there are others.........so your take........is as usual, baseless.

ok. give me some examples.

[34-78-83]

The avoiding of Buffalo or any number of notorious bottom-feeding teams for draft prospects is much more a thing of the past (Biscuit, Elway) than something currently going on in the league.

[DE Bills Fan]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000830336/article/uclas-mora-doesnt-believe-josh-rosen-will-enter-2018-draft

 

I think he and others who are Jr.s might wait to see what the draft order is before declaring. I will say it again, I want Baker Mayfield. I know Lincoln Riley is going to work with him on a few more pro specific things this year. I feel the kid could be the next Favre and I think he would excel in our WCO.

YES. TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thenorthremembers]

Not a fan of Rosen, and not only because his "hot takes" are trite. For all the hype surrounding the guy his film is less than thrilling. Reminds me a lot of the Brad Kaaya situation from last year. Tall enough plays in a pro-style offense, but for all of his intelligence holds the ball way too long and takes a ton of sacks. On top of that he isn’t a winner, and isn’t all that impressive against ranked opponents.

On the opposite end of things all that Baker Mayfield does is win and flash on film, with very little first round hype because of his size. I don’t think the spread offense thing should be downplayed; however it only takes one team to look over that, see Deshaun Watson and Houston.

Josh Allen’s arm is unreal, I mean about as special as special gets. But, when he starts making mistakes watch out, it’s like an avalanche.

One player who I think will shoot up the boards near draft time is Mason Rudolph. He checks almost all the boxes. Size, Big Arm, Winner and can make all the throws.

Right now I’d consider these players in the 1^st Round

Darnold

Rudolph

Mayfield

Allen

If he comes out Rosen will slip, for what its worth.

[likei've]

I get the feeling Darnold's not coming out. Read an article today that said he's living his dream as a USC QB. Has never thought about what he'd like to do beyond that.

 

I see him pulling a Leinart.

[dave mcbride]

Not a fan of Rosen, and not only because his "hot takes" are trite. For all the hype surrounding the guy his film is less than thrilling. Reminds me a lot of the Brad Kaaya situation from last year. Tall enough plays in a pro-style offense, but for all of his intelligence holds the ball way too long and takes a ton of sacks. On top of that he isn’t a winner, and isn’t all that impressive against ranked opponents.

On the opposite end of things all that Baker Mayfield does is win and flash on film, with very little first round hype because of his size. I don’t think the spread offense thing should be downplayed; however it only takes one team to look over that, see Deshaun Watson and Houston.

Josh Allen’s arm is unreal, I mean about as special as special gets. But, when he starts making mistakes watch out, it’s like an avalanche.

One player who I think will shoot up the boards near draft time is Mason Rudolph. He checks almost all the boxes. Size, Big Arm, Winner and can make all the throws.

Right now I’d consider these players in the 1^st Round

Darnold

Rudolph

Mayfield

Allen

If he comes out Rosen will slip, for what its worth.

 

I suggest reading this: https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/5/30/15704320/ucla-football-2017-preview-schedule-roster .

[JinxedBill1]

It all changes when the agent says you could be the top pick and make millions....

[teef]

 

 

It's pointing out the fact that avoiding Buffalo.....passively or otherwise....... is not really anything new.

 

It's not the people or the town......it's the management and the poor work they've done.

 

I'd give you examples of the QB's dodging the Bills on draft day but the Bills have LITERALLY never traded up ahead of their original slot or even just stayed put and selected a QB with their first pick in round 1 in any draft going back to 1961.

 

They've taken a couple with second first round picks(Kelly and Losman) and traded back and then taken one(Manuel)........but that's it........never all-in on one college QB.

 

I know you are new to the subject.......but all I can tell you is that Ralph MANY times had the league's highest paid player at certain positions.......Jim Kelly, Bruce Smith, Thurman, Mario and I am sure there are others.........so your take........is as usual, baseless.

does anyone know if this is the case? i've never heard of any stories involving this, but i'd like to.

[thenorthremembers]

 

I suggest reading this: https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/5/30/15704320/ucla-football-2017-preview-schedule-roster .

It's quite possible I am dense, but having a hard time understanding what inference this article is attempting to make about Rosen? Appears they are blaming the OC for the team’s struggles, but for me that’s a flimsy argument. Like I said, I may be dense and am missing the point.

 

Rosen has only won 57% of his starts at UCLA, and only 27% against quality opponents. Is he talented sure, a lot of kids at the college level are. What I fail to get is all the hype around him. Personally I think he ends up a backup in the NFL. Could I be wrong, of course? I just dont see it with him. Neither the statistical results nor the film jump out as warranting a 1^st Round grade.

[dave mcbride]

It's quite possible I am dense, but having a hard time understanding what inference this article is attempting to make about Rosen? Appears they are blaming the OC for the team’s struggles, but for me that’s a flimsy argument. Like I said, I may be dense and am missing the point.

 

Rosen has only won 57% of his starts at UCLA, and only 27% against quality opponents. Is he talented sure, a lot of kids at the college level are. What I fail to get is all the hype around him. Personally I think he ends up a backup in the NFL. Could I be wrong, of course? I just dont see it with him. Neither the statistical results nor the film jump out as warranting a 1^st Round grade.

QBs do not win games - teams do. That's an iron law of TBD discussion, at least in my opinion. No offense, but I tend to immediately discount people who invoke QB win-loss records, especially for college QBs. Jared Goff was on teams that went 14-23 in games he started, yet he was a phenomenal college QB.

 

The point the article makes is that he has played well but was cursed by one of the worst rushing offenses in all of college football last season (115th out of 125 teams using advanced stats).

Edited August 17, 2017 by dave mcbride

[KellyToughII]

 

 

It's pointing out the fact that avoiding Buffalo.....passively or otherwise....... is not really anything new.

 

It's not the people or the town......it's the management and the poor work they've done.

 

I'd give you examples of the QB's dodging the Bills on draft day but the Bills have LITERALLY never traded up ahead of their original slot or even just stayed put and selected a QB with their first pick in round 1 in any draft going back to 1961.

 

They've taken a couple with second first round picks(Kelly and Losman) and traded back and then taken one(Manuel)........but that's it........never all-in on one college QB.

 

I know you are new to the subject.......but all I can tell you is that Ralph MANY times had the league's highest paid player at certain positions.......Jim Kelly, Bruce Smith, Thurman, Mario and I am sure there are others.........so your take........is as usual, baseless.

Great point on not trading up #BADOL. I think we see that change this year with this ownership and management. They understand the value of a Franchise QB. And being totally honest, it buys the current Regime 5 years automatically.

[mannc]

QBs do not win games - teams do. That's an iron law of TBD discussion, at least in my opinion. No offense, but I tend to immediately discount people who invoke QB win-loss records, especially for college QBs. Jared Goff was on teams that went 14-23 in games he started, yet he was a phenomenal college QB.

 

The point the article makes is that he has played well but was cursed by one of the worst rushing offenses in all of college football last season (115th out of 125 teams using advanced stats).

As well as by perhaps the worst head coach of any major college program.

[thenorthremembers]

QBs do not win games - teams do. That's an iron law of TBD discussion, at least in my opinion. No offense, but I tend to immediately discount people who invoke QB win-loss records, especially for college QBs. Jared Goff was on teams that went 14-23 in games he started, yet he was a phenomenal college QB.

 

The point the article makes is that he has played well but was cursed by one of the worst rushing offenses in all of college football last season (115th out of 125 teams using advanced stats).

Understood, we are just on completely different ends of the spectrum. I think if you look at the successful teams in the NFL, one thing sets them apart and that’s their Quarterback. The difference in margin of talent in the NFL is so minimal, that you need to find the equalizer, and the equalizer, at least in my opinion is the man who has the ball in his hands the most throughout the game.

 

To your point on win-loss percentage, I also disagree. Going back to 2012 draft class (excluding the last two draft classes, too early to speak to it) five Quarterbacks appear to have a proven track record in the NFL; Winston, Mariota, Carr, Luck, Wilson and Cousins. Not one of those players had a win percentage under 61% in college. The lowest of that group was Carr who lost 16 games, and 9 of those games were in his first year of starting.

 

I think your example of Goff is perfect to my point, no doubt that he was fun to watch in college but he only won 37% of his games, and it was clear he shouldn’t have been the first quarterback taken.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Isn't it great to argue out of both sides of the mouth to always appear to be right?

 

So if Ralph C Wilson was so generous with player contracts as you claim in this post, what does that say about your decade long crusade about Peters? Marshawn? McGahee?

 

 

It says that Ralph was mercurial. But after a while it became pretty predictable.......if he thought he could win on the field he would pay.......and he spent big and on more than just one player at a time, an utter BS remark by you.

 

If he didn't think he could win, he'd comfort himself with winning on the books.

 

That constant shifting of focus stunted the development of the on field product time and again.

 

It's always interesting to me that so many people on here think people can't be complex.........they are one thing or the other..........Ralph had his good traits and wanted to win but wanting to win and knowing how to do it and being committed to it are different things.

does anyone know if this is the case? i've never heard of any stories involving this, but i'd like to.

 

 

Teef........you got it backwards........read twice and ASK once.

 

THERE ARE NO POTENTIAL EXAMPLES.

 

Because the Bills have never even used their original first round pick to draft a QB.

 

Some argue that they took TE Tony Hunter first in 1983 because they knew Kelly was going to be there two picks later.........but what GM Norm Pollom actually said was that he was comfortable with taking a different QB if Kelly wasn't there.

 

This organization has NEVER been ALL-IN on a QB on draft day.

 

They've tried to make trades up........Donahoe tried to get up to get Roethlisberger.........but he lacked the courage or the conviction because it didn't get done.

Great point on not trading up #BADOL. I think we see that change this year with this ownership and management. They understand the value of a Franchise QB. And being totally honest, it buys the current Regime 5 years automatically.

 

I don't see them getting 5 years unless they do some winning along the way.

 

As Scott said.......I think it was important to get the program off on the right foot this year.........because there is going to be a lot of turnover in the next few and if all this team does is lose they will lose faith in the HC/GM. It's just natural.

Edited August 17, 2017 by #BADOL

[dave mcbride]

As well as by perhaps the worst head coach of any major college program.

You are preaching the choir about Mora.

[dave mcbride]

Understood, we are just on completely different ends of the spectrum. I think if you look at the successful teams in the NFL, one thing sets them apart and that’s their Quarterback. The difference in margin of talent in the NFL is so minimal, that you need to find the equalizer, and the equalizer, at least in my opinion is the man who has the ball in his hands the most throughout the game.

 

To your point on win-loss percentage, I also disagree. Going back to 2012 draft class (excluding the last two draft classes, too early to speak to it) five Quarterbacks appear to have a proven track record in the NFL; Winston, Mariota, Carr, Luck, Wilson and Cousins. Not one of those players had a win percentage under 61% in college. The lowest of that group was Carr who lost 16 games, and 9 of those games were in his first year of starting.

 

I think your example of Goff is perfect to my point, no doubt that he was fun to watch in college but he only won 37% of his games, and it was clear he shouldn’t have been the first quarterback taken.

 

Rosen's teams have won 58 percent of the games he's started in. Let's see how he does this season.

 

As for the others:

 

Winston: he played on a team that saw 18 players drafted in 2014 and 2015, and 8 of them went in the first two rounds. One of the most loaded teams in recent history.

 

Mariota; Ditto. 28 Ducks were drafted by the NFL from 2009-2015, and 8 in the first 3 rounds from 2013-15 (the years Mariota started). Put Mariota on Cal and see what happens.

 

Luck: Not quite ditto, but Stanford's program has been great. 4 guys from his final year there were drafted in the first 2 rounds. He is also the best prospect to come out in a long, long time. Rosen is not as good as him.

 

Cousins: Good college player on a good college team with an excellent coach. He also was handing off to the best NFL running back in the game right now (Le'Veon Bell) and was backed by a very good defense.

 

Carr: I like him, but Fresno State did not beat one good team in Carr's entire career there. They mostly play very weak teams, although the few times they played good teams, they lost every single time.

 

The bottom line: football is the ultimate team sport.

Edited August 17, 2017 by dave mcbride