Does anyone believe GM Beane about preseason game?

[Joe Miner]

One of the reasons that the foot injury hurts Watkins a little more than other WRs is how quick and hard he makes his stops, cuts and his breaks. They are noticeably different than everyone else on the team. It's the reason he can get wide open on a seven yard out pass, and one of the many reasons why he is unstoppable when healthy.

 

If I were the Rams and about to make that trade I think those four plays would seal the deal for me that he is 100% healthy.

You weren't willing to bet a 2 and a crappy CB until you saw those 4 plays?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

if beane lied about whether he discussed Sammy being traded or not, then he is a serial liar.

 

I say this Because I can't find a reason it's worth lying about.

 

So what if he had told him prior to the game. Why not say that?

 

What's the lie protect?

Edited August 14, 2017 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Kelly the Dog]

So in 1 thread we're supposed to believe Sammy wanted to be here because he said so, but in this thread Beane is a liar because of 4 plays between a QB and wr who needed to get on the same page and only had 1 quarter to do so.

 

Whaley was a liar at the press conference fiasco, but maybe only in his intent, maybe not technically in his words.

 

Name a player, coach, of GM that made a controversial statement and a good portion of people will believe they're a liar.

 

We like to believe people when they say what we want to hear or agree with and call them liars when they don't. Chances are, most of what they're telling the media is a giant shade of gray.

I agree with all of that. But that's why I wanted to start the thread. I like Beane. I had believed him. He didn't need to say what I think he said, he went out of his way to. And combined with another statement it looked like it was deceitful when it didn't need to be. This could be all semantics. I am not against Beane. I actually liked everything he said in this morning's GR interview even though I hated the trades.

You weren't willing to bet a 2 and a crappy CB until you saw those 4 plays?

Ha. Good point. But I wouldn't give up a second round pick and my 3 CB if I thought the guy was hurt for the fourth year in a row, no.

[PolishDave]

One of the reasons that the foot injury hurts Watkins a little more than other WRs is how quick and hard he makes his stops, cuts and his breaks. They are noticeably different than everyone else on the team. It's the reason he can get wide open on a seven yard out pass, and one of the many reasons why he is unstoppable when healthy.

 

If I were the Rams and about to make that trade I think those four plays would seal the deal for me that he is 100% healthy.

 

The more I think about it, the more I am leaning towards it being a coincidence that those passes went to Sammy back to back. It was a glimpse of what this season could/may have been like with a healthy Sammy and Tyrod in Dennison's offense. - Pleasant dreams gone "poof" up in smoke.

 

If Beaner is lying, he is damn good at it. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt unless these things become a pattern.

[Beast]

I started this thread yesterday afternoon and the mods shut it down today. I guess it was being discussed elsewhere though I couldn't find where.

[liverpoolkev]

So in 1 thread we're supposed to believe Sammy wanted to be here because he said so, but in this thread Beane is a liar because of 4 plays between a QB and wr who needed to get on the same page and only had 1 quarter to do so.

 

Whaley was a liar at the press conference fiasco, but maybe only in his intent, maybe not technically in his words.

 

Name a player, coach, of GM that made a controversial statement and a good portion of people will believe they're a liar.

 

We like to believe people when they say what we want to hear or agree with and call them liars when they don't. Chances are, most of what they're telling the media is a giant shade of gray.

This is so simple.......... The league know we have a novice at GM and they are taking advantage of him. This front office is a joke and I see the problem is the Pelugas everyone they wanted turns out to be straight garbage..... Starting with sexy rex.....Hue Jackson thought he had the job before Peluga picked Rex.....who by himself destroyed a top three defense...........Now Jorden Matthew is hurt ........it wont be too long before the rest of our talent get plucked away. The league see our gm/coaching team don't have a clue

[Last Guy on the Bench]

One of the reasons that the foot injury hurts Watkins a little more than other WRs is how quick and hard he makes his stops, cuts and his breaks. They are noticeably different than everyone else on the team. It's the reason he can get wide open on a seven yard out pass, and one of the many reasons why he is unstoppable when healthy.

 

If I were the Rams and about to make that trade I think those four plays would seal the deal for me that he is 100% healthy.

Really? I'm sure you're right about what makes him special. But If I were the Rams I would ask to see practice footage, and I would have my doctors and coaches have a look at him after that (the typical conditional part of a trade). It just seems too haphazard to rely on a preseason game.

 

Especially from the Bills point of view. We're going to "showcase" him the first few plays of the very first live action of the year? Hell, those plays might turn into disasters (sacks, miscommunications, etc.). No guarantee that you can ever really showcase a wide receiver. If I'm Beane trying to convince the Rams about his health, I just send them a bunch of practice footage of Sammy running routes and cutting on that foot.

 

Preseason games are too unpredictable and random to be used strategically in this way. Again, maybe if you are talking about playing a UDFA for the whole second half or something, so people can get some game film on him. But there is plenty of game film on Sammy Watkins.

 

I do agree that "not telling" McD until after that game seems bizarre. That one's hard to swallow.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I thought this concept deserves its own thread. Perhaps MODS don't. You decide.

 

Brandon Beane, who for the most part I very much like, even though I hated the trades, said on WGR I believe that he never discussed the trade possibilities with Opie until AFTER the game against the Vikings. He never brought it up.

 

That means they weren't auditioning Sammy for the Rams or the other three teams that expressed interest by the first four plays all going to Watkins.

 

Frankly, I find that very hard to believe on both counts. That he hadn't discussed the trade with McDermott, and that it was just coincidence that four plays in a row out of a possible four went to SW.

 

Now granted, everyone knows that what GMs say to the press and public have to be taken with grain of salt. But he didn't at all have to say it this way, and went out of his way, AFTER the trade, to say that Opie knew nothing about it, and it wasn't an audition. And Sammy even says he thinks it was.

 

That really makes me, personally, not believe Beane for the first time, early in his tenure. And it will take some time to make me believe he is being forthright with the press and the fans. Not a good way to start, and it seems like it was an unforced error.

 

So, do you believe Beane that he never discussed the trade before the Vikes game AND the four straight passes to Sammy were just coincidence? Or that Beane lied about it? And can you think of a good reason why he would lie about this particular thing.

 

The "auditioning" comment was from some pissed off poster here who was talking out of his ***

[Kelly the Dog]

This is what Peter King said about it this morning...

 

"Interestingly, Beane didn’t tell McDermott about his tentative deal with the Rams before their game against Minnesota. Imagine the Rams’ shock when, on the first four plays of the game on offense for Buffalo, Tyrod Taylor threw to Watkins. Beane wanted McDermott, in his first game as coach, not to be shackled but rather to be able to use his 90 players the way he saw fit. They didn’t discuss the chance for the trade until after the game."

[BillsfanAZ]

Beane is not going to trade anyone without McD knowing about it. I am sure McD knew there were teams interested in Watkins as well as other players. If McD loved Darby, I am sure he would be pissed if he got traded out from under him. McD may not have known that all the details got worked out until after the game. Also Taylor didnt have to go to Watkins every pass. He could have spread it around. Taylor may have wanted Sammy to test that foot.

[SoCal Deek]

Do some of you people actually think that YOU are running the Team...because you are not. Social Media is going to be the death of this country yet. While you may like what the Bills did with the trade, the pre-season game, or the post trade press conference...you don't get a vote and you are not owed a pre-trade explanation.

 

Neither the Bills GM nor the President of United States has to run every decision they are about to make by everyone on Facebook first until they reach consensus. Relax!

[fridge]

I thought this concept deserves its own thread. Perhaps MODS don't. You decide...

 

Very possible that we needed to showcase Watkins to prove he's healthy and ready to go before LA would agree to any trade.

 

Beane lied. You did a good job of describing why. There ain't no way in heck that he pulled the trigger on a trade like that without a lot of discussions with McDermott, and the timing just doesn't work out for any other explanation.

 

The bigger issue... is this a problem? I'm inclined to say that it's not, but I am not giving these guys the benefit of the doubt at all. A lot of people are saying things like, "of course he lied," but I see no reason to do so. He could have just declined to comment on the timeline. One thing I do know... there's no way to spin this trade as helping out the team "now".

Edited August 14, 2017 by fridge

[GG]

I could be wrong but I thought he may have been aware that there were four teams that had called and asked about Watkins, and that McD knew about that. But he didn't know about LA's recent offer or that any trade was imminent and that Sammy's action in the game had zero to do with any trade offer, meaning McD didn't know of the LA offer so there was no showcasing whatsoever.

 

Why can't it be in the middle -

 

McD was in the room when Bills declined Sammy's 5th year option, Beane was not

McD knew that Sammy was not in Bills long term plans

McD knew there was growing interest in Sammy from several teams, and that a near-term deal was possible

McD probably didn't know the specifics of the Rams offer on Thursday night before the game

McD showcased Sammy to all prospective bidders on Thursday night

[Big C]

I'm sure Beane mentioned some trade possibilities throughout the off-season and McD was aware that Sammy could be traded, but I believe that Brand didn't really get into specifics with him and the Pegulas until after the game. Namely the parameters as well as the coinciding Darby trade. So it's it's not a lie, but it doesn't tell the whole story.

[fridge]

 

Why can't it be in the middle -

 

McD was in the room when Bills declined Sammy's 5th year option, Beane was not

McD knew that Sammy was not in Bills long term plans

McD knew there was growing interest in Sammy from several teams, and that a near-term deal was possible

McD probably didn't know the specifics of the Rams offer on Thursday night before the game

McD showcased Sammy to all prospective bidders on Thursday night

 

I've thought about all of that, and I definitely think that McDermott may have completely underestimated Sammy Watkins' ability. I get it, he's been hurt, but it seems like McDermott made up his mind back in the offseason while Watkins was still recovering.

[MAJBobby]

And if he was or wasnt show cased who really cares?

[abc]

This is so simple.......... The league know we have a novice at GM and they are taking advantage of him. This front office is a joke and I see the problem is the Pelugas everyone they wanted turns out to be straight garbage..... Starting with sexy rex.....Hue Jackson thought he had the job before Peluga picked Rex.....who by himself destroyed a top three defense...........Now Jorden Matthew is hurt ........it wont be too long before the rest of our talent get plucked away. The league see our gm/coaching team don't have a clue

Insightful stuff here!

[dwight in philly]

I thought this concept deserves its own thread. Perhaps MODS don't. You decide.

 

Brandon Beane, who for the most part I very much like, even though I hated the trades, said on WGR I believe that he never discussed the trade possibilities with Opie until AFTER the game against the Vikings. He never brought it up.

 

That means they weren't auditioning Sammy for the Rams or the other three teams that expressed interest by the first four plays all going to Watkins.

 

Frankly, I find that very hard to believe on both counts. That he hadn't discussed the trade with McDermott, and that it was just coincidence that four plays in a row out of a possible four went to SW.

 

Now granted, everyone knows that what GMs say to the press and public have to be taken with grain of salt. But he didn't at all have to say it this way, and went out of his way, AFTER the trade, to say that Opie knew nothing about it, and it wasn't an audition. And Sammy even says he thinks it was.

 

That really makes me, personally, not believe Beane for the first time, early in his tenure. And it will take some time to make me believe he is being forthright with the press and the fans. Not a good way to start, and it seems like it was an unforced error.

 

So, do you believe Beane that he never discussed the trade before the Vikes game AND the four straight passes to Sammy were just coincidence? Or that Beane lied about it? And can you think of a good reason why he would lie about this particular thing.

who is Opie?

[fridge]

And if he was or wasnt show cased who really cares?

 

I definitely don't care if they showcased him. I'm not even that concerned with how they've explained it, even if untrue, but I just think it's possible that they wildly underrated Watkins.

 

One thing that bothers me... if these guys can just showcase him at will like that, then how come we never really did that his whole career?

[MAJBobby]

 

I definitely don't care if they showcased him. I'm not even that concerned with how they've explained it, even if untrue, but I just think it's possible that they wildly underrated Watkins.

 

One thing that bothers me... if these guys can just showcase him at will like that, then how come we never really did that his whole career?

I personally think they did to show the foot healthy. However there still is something wrong with that foot.

 

There are grumbling out of OBD about ir and if you watch him run routes there still is something going on there.

[Kelly the Dog]

I'm sure Beane mentioned some trade possibilities throughout the off-season and McD was aware that Sammy could be traded, but I believe that Brand didn't really get into specifics with him and the Pegulas until after the game. Namely the parameters as well as the coinciding Darby trade. So it's it's not a lie, but it doesn't tell the whole story.

Yeah, it's possible. It just doesn't seem likely. The truth is, like it often is, somewhere in the middle. Surely McD knew about the trade talk. Surely he knew Sammy may not be in their long term plans. MAYBE he didn't know of the Rams latest offer and the fact that Beane was trading him to the Rams early in the morning. MAYBE the four passes in a row were just a combination of wanting to get Sammy involved and Tyrod just choosing him on random plays and it had nothing whatsoever to do about showcasing. That all just seems odd.

 

If I'm not mistaken, I would have to go back and listen, but I think Beane may have said that the trade talks with LA increased "during the game." That could explain that they saw enough and were pulling the trigger or even upping their offer.

[eball]

I'll begin by saying that obviously I don't know. None of us do. But I believe it's plausible Beane is telling the truth because there was plenty of incentive to get Sammy "into the game" even without trade talks. Everybody had been asking Sammy and Taylor about chemistry and everyone wanted to see Sammy in live action. Those plays were a way to get Sammy some quick action and then shut him down for the night. I and my buddy didn't think for one second the other night while watching the game that they targeted Sammy quickly to show other teams he was ok -- we both thought they did it to show the fans and his teammates he was back.

 

I, of course, could be wrong.

[Kelly the Dog]

who is Opie?

McDermott looks a lot like Ron Howard.

[Best Player Available]

I thought this concept deserves its own thread. Perhaps MODS don't. You decide.

 

Brandon Beane, who for the most part I very much like, even though I hated the trades, said on WGR I believe that he never discussed the trade possibilities with Opie until AFTER the game against the Vikings. He never brought it up.

 

That means they weren't auditioning Sammy for the Rams or the other three teams that expressed interest by the first four plays all going to Watkins.

 

Frankly, I find that very hard to believe on both counts. That he hadn't discussed the trade with McDermott, and that it was just coincidence that four plays in a row out of a possible four went to SW.

 

Now granted, everyone knows that what GMs say to the press and public have to be taken with grain of salt. But he didn't at all have to say it this way, and went out of his way, AFTER the trade, to say that Opie knew nothing about it, and it wasn't an audition. And Sammy even says he thinks it was.

 

That really makes me, personally, not believe Beane for the first time, early in his tenure. And it will take some time to make me believe he is being forthright with the press and the fans. Not a good way to start, and it seems like it was an unforced error.

 

So, do you believe Beane that he never discussed the trade before the Vikes game AND the four straight passes to Sammy were just coincidence? Or that Beane lied about it? And can you think of a good reason why he would lie about this particular thing.

Dan patrick interviewed the Beagles VP who made the Darby trade. I am paraphrasing. Of course not about #14 he mentioned that when things warmed up on the Darby trade that 15-20 calls with Beane were exchanged. Starting the day before the first pre season game in detail. And that all teams talk at this time of year about "surplus" players, and players who they need or prefer and players they are open to trading. I would guess the Watkins trade was very similar dialog wise. I doubt a call came out of the Blue and was a surprise regarding SW. Considering both trades were made within 20 minutes of each other. He also.said Beane made no reference about trading #14 too the Rams during the Darby talks.

[SoCal Deek]

McDermott looks a lot like Ron Howard.

No he doesn't!

[4merper4mer]

It might be that the plays were a coincidence. Lie or truth, the trade and entire handling of Sammy have been horrendous.

[Kelly the Dog]

I'll begin by saying that obviously I don't know. None of us do. But I believe it's plausible Beane is telling the truth because there was plenty of incentive to get Sammy "into the game" even without trade talks. Everybody had been asking Sammy and Taylor about chemistry and everyone wanted to see Sammy in live action. Those plays were a way to get Sammy some quick action and then shut him down for the night. I and my buddy didn't think for one second the other night while watching the game that they targeted Sammy quickly to show other teams he was ok -- we both thought they did it to show the fans and his teammates he was back.

 

I, of course, could be wrong.

Yeah, I didn't think for a second while watching that they were showcasing him. But when the trade was made early the next morning after the four straight passes one could easily come to that conclusion.

[fridge]

It might be that the plays were a coincidence. Lie or truth, the trade and entire handling of Sammy have been horrendous.

 

Amen to that. We got a shiny new toy and had absolutely no idea what to do with it.

[Wayne Arnold]

I thought this concept deserves its own thread. Perhaps MODS don't. You decide.

 

Brandon Beane, who for the most part I very much like, even though I hated the trades, said on WGR I believe that he never discussed the trade possibilities with Opie until AFTER the game against the Vikings. He never brought it up.

 

That means they weren't auditioning Sammy for the Rams or the other three teams that expressed interest by the first four plays all going to Watkins.

 

Frankly, I find that very hard to believe on both counts. That he hadn't discussed the trade with McDermott, and that it was just coincidence that four plays in a row out of a possible four went to SW.

 

Now granted, everyone knows that what GMs say to the press and public have to be taken with grain of salt. But he didn't at all have to say it this way, and went out of his way, AFTER the trade, to say that Opie knew nothing about it, and it wasn't an audition. And Sammy even says he thinks it was.

 

That really makes me, personally, not believe Beane for the first time, early in his tenure. And it will take some time to make me believe he is being forthright with the press and the fans. Not a good way to start, and it seems like it was an unforced error.

 

So, do you believe Beane that he never discussed the trade before the Vikes game AND the four straight passes to Sammy were just coincidence? Or that Beane lied about it? And can you think of a good reason why he would lie about this particular thing.

 

I'm sure Beane is very concerned about how much Kelly the Dog believes him.

 

My guess is McDermott knew very well that Sammy was on the trade block. Hell, maybe it was even his idea. And that the deal with the Rams was solidified either during or right before the game when McDermott was otherwise occupied.

[GG]

Yeah, it's possible. It just doesn't seem likely. The truth is, like it often is, somewhere in the middle. Surely McD knew about the trade talk. Surely he knew Sammy may not be in their long term plans. MAYBE he didn't know of the Rams latest offer and the fact that Beane was trading him to the Rams early in the morning. MAYBE the four passes in a row were just a combination of wanting to get Sammy involved and Tyrod just choosing him on random plays and it had nothing whatsoever to do about showcasing. That all just seems odd.

 

If I'm not mistaken, I would have to go back and listen, but I think Beane may have said that the trade talks with LA increased "during the game." That could explain that they saw enough and were pulling the trigger or even upping their offer.

 

Which means that technically, Beane wasn't lying?

[4merper4mer]

I'm sure Beane is very concerned about how much Kelly the Dog believes him.

 

My guess is McDermott knew very well that Sammy was on the trade block. Hell, maybe it was even his idea. And that the deal with the Rams was solidified either during or right before the game when McDermott was otherwise occupied.

The Sammy hating definitely started before Beane arrived.

[xsoldier54]

I thought this concept deserves its own thread. Perhaps MODS don't. You decide.

 

Brandon Beane, who for the most part I very much like, even though I hated the trades, said on WGR I believe that he never discussed the trade possibilities with Opie until AFTER the game against the Vikings. He never brought it up.

 

That means they weren't auditioning Sammy for the Rams or the other three teams that expressed interest by the first four plays all going to Watkins.

 

Frankly, I find that very hard to believe on both counts. That he hadn't discussed the trade with McDermott, and that it was just coincidence that four plays in a row out of a possible four went to SW.

 

Now granted, everyone knows that what GMs say to the press and public have to be taken with grain of salt. But he didn't at all have to say it this way, and went out of his way, AFTER the trade, to say that Opie knew nothing about it, and it wasn't an audition. And Sammy even says he thinks it was.

 

That really makes me, personally, not believe Beane for the first time, early in his tenure. And it will take some time to make me believe he is being forthright with the press and the fans. Not a good way to start, and it seems like it was an unforced error.

 

So, do you believe Beane that he never discussed the trade before the Vikes game AND the four straight passes to Sammy were just coincidence? Or that Beane lied about it? And can you think of a good reason why he would lie about this particular thing.

I think you have too much time on your hands. I could give a rat's ass when he discussed it with McDermott. I can't even imagine a scenario where Beane would lie about that. What purpose would it serve? To what end? Makes no sense that he would lie about something so trivial.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Which means that technically, Beane wasn't lying?

It's possible, sure. That's why I asked people if they believed he was telling the truth. If I HAD to guess I think that McD knew the trade was likely happening and that the Rams wanted to see Sammy play. If that was the case then I think he was lying and I was trying to figure out why he would say that; he surely didn't have to. That's if I HAD to guess. It's also possible but unlikely IMO that there was no showcasing going on and McD did not know at all that Sammy was about to be traded.

 

I'm sure Beane is very concerned about how much Kelly the Dog believes him.

That's weird you think that because I don't. Creepy even.

 

I do think good, spirited conversation with varying POVs about Bills football is a good thing on a Bills message board. Frankly, it almost feels like it's something that is organic and wanted.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Kelly the Dog

[eball]

Yeah, I didn't think for a second while watching that they were showcasing him. But when the trade was made early the next morning after the four straight passes one could easily come to that conclusion.

 

Sure, it's a logical reaction. I tend to believe, however, that Beane and McD have a general "understanding" that if teams call about specific players Beane will do his homework and evaluate the potential deal behind the scenes, and then once something concrete is on the table go to McD and Pegs for consensus before any trigger is pulled. I actually think you create more problems if you tell a HC a player might be traded before a game; what if "showcasing" the player backfires?

 

I really believe the quick throws to Sammy to start off the game were in the natural flow of the offense and an effort from Tyrod to get something going for the season.

 

That said, I also continue to believe that we are all fools to believe everything that comes out of a GM's or HC's mouth.

[dwight in philly]

McDermott looks a lot like Ron Howard.

ok.. i get it.. TBD never lacks for creative comedic "genius"

[Boatdrinks]

It might be that the plays were a coincidence. Lie or truth, the trade and entire handling of Sammy have been horrendous.

Yes it has, unfortunately forBills fans. I'm not sure if it matters much if he was being truthful or not. I would tend to take anything he or MCD says with a giant rock of salt.

[WhoTom]

McDermott looks a lot like Ron Howard.

 

 

No he doesn't!

 

[dwight in philly]

 

 

 

OK then.. let us all keep up the "good work!"

Edited August 14, 2017 by dwight in philly

[JMF2006]

If the trade talks were heated before the game they would have held him out so as not to risk injury.

[BillnutinHouston]

What exactly does Beane gain by lying? I missed that piece.