Ryan Groy Signed to an Offer Sheet by Rams

[Blokestradamus]

He got just a 2-year $5M deal? Phew! It's a no-brainer that you match it. Don't even need to (ahem) cut Wood.

 

But if you wanted to, you could cut him with a post June 1st designation and save yourself $2m this year after the cost of Groy.

[Pbomb]

its Jim Overdorf who does it. Why the snark?

gotta get shots in on whaley no matter what

[artmalibu]

For all the cut wood guys, do you realize that would leave 4.3 million in dead money this year?

[Just Joshin']

No-brainer to match that deal, imo. Rams just did the negotiating for us. Sign him and move forward.

Exactly why I don't understand the over reaction. If no other team produces an offer, the Bills get a bargain. If he does get an offer, they match. In this case the higher tender was exceeded so it was a moot point.

[hemma]

Nice job Whaley.

Real, clear thinker.

[DrDawkinstein]

Exactly why I don't understand the over reaction. If no other team produces an offer, the Bills get a bargain. If he does get an offer, they match. In this case the higher tender was exceeded so it was a moot point.

 

Because the only thing Bils fans like more than winning is complaining. Granted, the Bills haven't given us much winning, but you'd think the fans would be able to stick to the things that are valid to complain about...

For all the cut wood guys, do you realize that would leave 4.3 million in dead money this year?

 

Right? Not worth it. Plus, Bills fans still need to learn that we can have more than 1 nice thing. It doesnt always have to be either/or. You can afford both and have nice depth!

Nice job Whaley.

Real, clear thinker.

 

Exactly. Looks like he pulled the plan off perfectly.

[Blokestradamus]

For all the cut wood guys, do you realize that would leave 4.3 million in dead money this year?

 

Post June 1st, that goes down to $3 million. A net saving of $4.5m. He's already on the cap for 2018 for $1.25m as it is so kicking a little more down the line, to a year where we have more space, isn't the worst idea.

[MPT]

hahahahahah

all these comp pic complainers are killing me..just make the roster better

Okay, this argument is becoming so absurd.

 

First of all, most of the free agents we signed have not made our roster better.

 

Secondly, we gave up draft picks to sign them. Acquiring draft picks is the best way to improve the roster in the long term.

 

It's really that simple, guys.

[eball]

Wood could play quite a few more years. Not sure why we are quick to show him the door.

 

Because his play is declining? Did you notice a drop off when Groy took over last season?

 

I love Wood's attitude, commitment to the community, etc., but I'm not so sure he's a top quality C yet he's being paid like one.

[MPT]

Exactly why I don't understand the over reaction. If no other team produces an offer, the Bills get a bargain. If he does get an offer, they match. In this case the higher tender was exceeded so it was a moot point.

There is a third option. If a team gives him a contract that we don't want to match, we get nothing in return. Giving him a higher tender means that we would get a draft pick in return. And we still don't risk anything because his offer sheet was obviously going to be similar to the tender price.

 

We literally can't lose if we give him a higher round tender, and we get a draft pick if we don't match. In this case, we get nothing if we don't match. Again.

[DrDawkinstein]

There is a third option. If a team gives him a contract that we don't want to match, we get nothing in return. Giving him a higher tender means that we would get a draft pick in return. And we still don't risk anything because his offer sheet was obviously going to be similar to the tender price.

 

We literally can't lose if we give him a higher round tender, and we get a draft pick if we don't match. In this case, we get nothing if we don't match. Again.

 

And yet based on reality and the actual offer he was given, it looks like the Bills assigned him the correct value. Another team did make him an offer, and it is even less than what the higher tender would have cost us. So now we get to keep him at a discounted rate because, again, the Bills properly assessed his market value.

[YoloinOhio]

There is a third option. If a team gives him a contract that we don't want to match, we get nothing in return. Giving him a higher tender means that we would get a draft pick in return. And we still don't risk anything because his offer sheet was obviously going to be similar to the tender price.

 

We literally can't lose if we give him a higher round tender, and we get a draft pick if we don't match. In this case, we get nothing if we don't match. Again.

this was already explained earlier. The reason teams don't give backups higher round tenders is because it hurts negotiations when they try to sign him long term. No one is going to give up a 2nd round pick, first of all, to sign a backup OL who was a UDFA. Or even a 5th. You aren't getting a pick for him. So if you do that, his agent is automatically jetting up his value by you setting the parameters so high. They did it exactly right per the value of the player. They knew it was highly unlikely he would get a big offer sheet. They know the value of the player. Edited March 14, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[Beef Jerky]

this was already explained earlier. The reason teams don't give backups higher round tenders is because it hurts negotiations when they try to sign him long term. No one is going to give up a 2nd round pick, first of all, to sign a backup OL who was a UDFA. Or even a 5th. You aren't getting a pick for him. So if you do that, his agent is automatically jetting up his value by you setting the parameters so high. They did it exactly right per the value of the player. They knew it was highly unlikely he would get a big offer sheet. They know the value of the player.

Boom!

[Jamie Mueller]

But if we match it we'll be giving up a 9th round comp pick in the year 3179.

Can't have that...

[Beast]

Losing organizations make decisions like letting Groy go while keeping Wood.

 

Wood is a fan favorite, to include me, but the smart decision would be to keep Groy over Wood....that is if they can't keep both.

[MPT]

 

And yet based on reality and the actual offer he was given, it looks like the Bills assigned him the correct value. Another team did make him an offer, and it is even less than what the higher tender would have cost us. So now we get to keep him at a discounted rate because, again, the Bills properly assessed his market value.

From Bills Wire:

 

"With the roster bonus, Groy would be making $2.5 million in 2017, which is nearly $250,000 less than the second round tag for restricted free agents, had Buffalo chosen to use it."

 

So, for a possible $250,000 we could have secured a starter or gained a second round pick. That's a no-brainer.

Edited March 14, 2017 by MPT

[DrDawkinstein]

From Bills Wire:

 

"With the roster bonus, Groy would be making $2.5 million in 2017, which is nearly $250,000 less than the second round tag for restricted free agents, had Buffalo chosen to use it."

 

So, for a possible $250,000 we could have secured a starter or gained a second round pick. That's a no-brainer.

 

No, because then we wouldnt have gotten ANY offers onhim since no one in their right mind is giving up a 2nd round pick for Groy. It simply isnt going to happen.

[dave mcbride]

How did Groy play in the final game vs the Jets, when the Jets were facing a non-weird and mostly pocket qb? My recollection is not well, and that might be a sign that playing in front of a qb like Taylor masked the reasons why he went undrafted. My memory might be faulty, however.

Edited March 14, 2017 by dave mcbride

[Saint Doug]

I'm glad he got this low-ball offer. We can sign him then won't have to worry about him getting a serious offer sheet.

[Riverboat Richie]

Ok.....If the Rams were offering Groy in trade for Wood, how many of you would jump on it?

[GG]

From Bills Wire:

 

"With the roster bonus, Groy would be making $2.5 million in 2017, which is nearly $250,000 less than the second round tag for restricted free agents, had Buffalo chosen to use it."

 

So, for a possible $250,000 we could have secured a starter or gained a second round pick. That's a no-brainer.

Or, the Bills match the offer and secure a starter for less money than the 2nd round tender. That's a no brainer

[Maddog69]

I would match it and cut Patrick Lewis to save $1.2m

[dave mcbride]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201701010nyj.htm

 

Not sure how much to read into this, but excluding Manuel's one rush up the middle for 6 yards, the Bills RBs ran it up the middle 9 total times vs the Jets for 4 total yards.

[Wayne Cubed]

From Bills Wire:

 

"With the roster bonus, Groy would be making $2.5 million in 2017, which is nearly $250,000 less than the second round tag for restricted free agents, had Buffalo chosen to use it."

 

So, for a possible $250,000 we could have secured a starter or gained a second round pick. That's a no-brainer.

Huh?

 

They would have secured a back-up, as Wood is the starter, for this year only. And which team was going to give up a 2nd round pick for Groy?

Or, the Bills match the offer and secure a starter for less money than the 2nd round tender. That's a no brainer

And secure him for 2 years, not 1.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Huh?

 

They would have secured a back-up, as Wood is the starter, for this year only. And which team was going to give up a 2nd round pick for Groy?

 

And secure him for 2 years, not 1.

This board has literally doubled in BS info and opinions in the last couple weeks. Unbelievable!

[Doc]

Or, the Bills match the offer and secure a starter for less money than the 2nd round tender. That's a no brainer

 

This, and...

 

And secure him for 2 years, not 1.

 

This. Looks like Whaley won this one. Assuming they match the offer.

[oldmanfan]

Match and move on. Seems smart to ifnd out the value in the market for the guy.

[MPT]

this was already explained earlier. The reason teams don't give backups higher round tenders is because it hurts negotiations when they try to sign him long term. No one is going to give up a 2nd round pick, first of all, to sign a backup OL who was a UDFA. Or even a 5th. You aren't getting a pick for him. So if you do that, his agent is automatically jetting up his value by you setting the parameters so high. They did it exactly right per the value of the player. They knew it was highly unlikely he would get a big offer sheet. They know the value of the player.

It doesn't matter if the player was an UDFA, first of all. Players get contracts according to their value, not their original round.

 

And if no team were willing to give up a second round pick, he's ours for the tender value. That's it. No negotiating. If he doesn't want to play for that amount, then he doesn't play at all. And that would be the only scenario in which we wouldn't get him or a second round pick. Much better play than risking losing him for nothing.

Edited March 14, 2017 by MPT

[1st&ten]

 

And that's it right there.

 

With the higher tender, no one is going to bother to try to present an offer. So we end up having to negotiate with him, and his camp knows we must really like him since we put a 2nd round tender on him.

 

This way, the Rams just did the work for the Bills FO while we were focusing on other parts. Now the Bills FO just needs to step up, copy and paste the Rams offer, and the deal is done. Easy peasy.

 

This makes sense. I wonder if they won't also go to E. Woods & ask him to take a little pay cut so they can keep both.

[DrDawkinstein]

It doesn't matter if the player was an UDFA, first of all. Players get contracts according to their value, not their original round.

 

And if no team were willing to give up a second round pick, he's ours for the tender value. That's it. No negotiating. If he doesn't want to play for that amount, then he doesn't play at all. And that would be the only scenario in which we wouldn't get him or a second round pick. Much better play than risking losing him for nothing.

 

Maybe, but reality has proven you wrong here.

[klos63]

The Bills should cut Wood and sign Groy.

There was no drop off in play on the OL after Wood got hurt and Groy can be had at a fraction of the cost it will take to keep Wood.

Why not keep both, if Woods comes back strong, great. If not, we can cut him next season and still have Groy.

[YoloinOhio]

It doesn't matter if the player was an UDFA, first of all. Players get contracts according to their value, not their original round.

 

And if no team were willing to give up a second round pick, he's ours for the tender value. That's it. No negotiating. If he doesn't want to play for that amount, then he doesn't play at all. And that would be the only scenario in which we wouldn't get him or a second round pick. Much better play than risking losing him for nothing.

it does matter that he was a udfa. It plays into his total value. He wasn't good enough to be drafted. He's only started 6 games and it was due to injury. He's not a proven starter. He's a backup who wasn't good enough to be drafted, until proven otherwise. Slap a 2nd round tender on him and that all changes. And he's a FA again next year and we are stuck negotiating at a level that doesn't match his value. Makes no sense.

 

What you're describing only comes into play with a guy like Malcom Butler, a udfa who elevated to a full time starter for 2 years at a very high level. Pats are using a 1st round tender because that's his value now. They know his negotiations won't be anything less. Not the same situation here.

Edited March 14, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[MPT]

 

Maybe, but reality has proven you wrong here.

I don't know what alternate reality you're following, but a team just offered almost exactly the 2nd round tender value. So now if we want to keep him, we have to pay that much anyway. And if we don't want to keep him, we get nothing. In my scenario, we would either pay him the same amount or get a second round pick.

 

So, reality has in fact proven me exactly correct.

What you're describing only comes into play with a guy like Malcom Butler, a udfa who elevated to a full time starter for 2 years at a very high level. Pats are using a 1st round tender because that's his value now. They know his negotiations won't be anything less. Not the same situation here.

So you're saying a player is worth his value regardless of whether he was an UDFA. Glad you agree. Or at least you agree until it doesn't suit your arbitrary argument. Edited March 14, 2017 by MPT

[GG]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201701010nyj.htm

 

Not sure how much to read into this, but excluding Manuel's one rush up the middle for 6 yards, the Bills RBs ran it up the middle 9 total times vs the Jets for 4 total yards.

 

Don't look at those stats, they don't tell you the story. Just watched All22 of the 1st half. Groy was never physically overmatched by the Jets interior. He did miss a couple of slides to pick up a blitzing LB. But re-watching that game showed that Cujo & few brain cramps by the TEs were a bigger liability. The strip sack on EJ was totally Cujo's fault.

[DrDawkinstein]

I don't know what alternate reality you're following, but a team just offered almost exactly the 2nd round tender value. So now if we want to keep him, we have to pay that much anyway. And if we don't want to keep him, we get nothing. In my scenario, we would either pay him the same amount or get a second round pick.

 

So, reality has in fact proven me exactly correct.

 

 

 

You're assuming LA would want to give up a 2nd to get him, which is highly unlikely and therefore sinks your entire idea.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

He looked fine in his time at the end of the season. He looked terrible in the preseason. I think he signs there because Kromer helped his game a lot and can help him get a real pay day - hence the short term.

[YoloinOhio]

I don't know what alternate reality you're following, but a team just offered almost exactly the 2nd round tender value. So now if we want to keep him, we have to pay that much anyway. And if we don't want to keep him, we get nothing. In my scenario, we would either pay him the same amount or get a second round pick.

 

So, reality has in fact proven me exactly correct.

 

So you're saying a player is worth his value regardless of whether he was an UDFA. Glad you agree.

I'm not even sure you know what you are trying to argue anymore.... but you seem to hold Groy in very high regard, moreso than every NFL GM. His value is currently 2 yrs, 5 mill - backup OL money. That's not 2nd rd pick territory. Bills would be foolish to have tendered him that high.

 

You are also confusing two scenarios. The Bills tendering him at a 2nd round tender, and the Rams offering him a contract that in the first year pays similar to the tender. It is not that simple in regards to the Bills negotiating with him long term, which they may be trying to do. It's already been explained, but you are either looking past it purposely or don't get it. Not worth it to go through it all again, I think you just seem stuck on a more simplistic viewpoint.

Edited March 14, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[MPT]

 

You're assuming LA would want to give up a 2nd to get him, which is highly unlikely and therefore sinks your entire idea.

Dude, it doesn't matter if they would or wouldn't have. There's no reason not to take advantage if someone ends up wanting him that bad. We have to pay the same amount to keep him either way.

[Wayne Cubed]

I don't know what alternate reality you're following, but a team just offered almost exactly the 2nd round tender value. So now if we want to keep him, we have to pay that much anyway. And if we don't want to keep him, we get nothing. In my scenario, we would either pay him the same amount or get a second round pick.

 

No, it's hasn't.

 

The 2nd round tender gets the Bills Groy for 1 year. Now, if the Bills want to keep him, they get to keep him for 2 years $3.5m guaranteed.

[MPT]

I'm not even sure you know what you are trying to argue anymore.... but you seem to hold Groy in very high regard, moreso than every NFL GM. His value is currently 2 yrs, 5 mill - backup OL money. That's not 2nd rd pick territory. Bills would be foolish to have tendered him that high.

That's almost exactly what the second round tender value is. Do you guys even know the basics of what you're trying to debate?

 

I don't give a **** about Groy. I give a **** about our GM making the same mistake two years in a row after getting burned so badly the first time. Clearly, this year isn't as bad, but we shouldn't even be in this situation again.