Cardale Jones

[mannc]

I think its sad that a project QB who will never amount to anything gets all this hype

What hype are talking about? And he did actually win a few games in college, as you may recall...

 

Please tell us how you already know he "won't amount to anything." Was it the 4 quarters of preseason football, playing with the Bills' third stringers, or was it the one quarter of mop up duty in a game that the Bills had all but announced to the world they were trying to lose?

Edited February 5, 2017 by mannc

[Hardcore Bills Fan]

What hype are talking about? And he did actually win a few games in college, as you may recall...

 

Please tell us how you already know he "won't amount to anything." Was it the 4 quarters of preseason football, playing with the Bills' third stringers, or was it the one quarter of mop up duty in a game that the Bills had all but announced to the world they were trying to lose?

 

Every other day this guy has a post somewhere and for some reason a bigger fan base than Da'Rick Rogers.

He didnt do squat in college and he should have been a UDFA pick this past draft.

He's a nobody.

[#34fan]

 

Every other day this guy has a post somewhere and for some reason a bigger fan base than Da'Rick Rogers.

He didnt do squat in college and he should have been a UDFA pick this past draft.

He's a nobody.

 

Yah, -Not like he beat the best team in the land, and won a National Championship or anything.

Edited February 5, 2017 by #34fan

[Hardcore Bills Fan]

 

Yah, -Not like he beat the best team in the land, and won a National Championship or anything.

wow and Elliott had nothing to do with it right?

[QuoteTheRaven83]

 

Your strategy has the words TANK written all over it in big freaking letters. And that doesn't sell tickets or merchandise or bring new fans to the team.

 

How do you know this? The only person you could be speaking about is Whaley right? Because the other guys are gone.

 

How do you know what this new coaching staff thinks about Cardale?

 

Whats the difference between us tanking this year and us not making the playoffs since 1999?

[ice2145]

The odds of Jones becoming a franchise QB is slim to none. The desperation for us fans to land the elusive QB sometimes mucks our reality.

[Kirby Jackson]

The odds of Jones becoming a franchise QB is slim to none. The desperation for us fans to land the elusive QB sometimes mucks our reality.

It's definitely slim. I would say under 10%. It was still a swing worth taking as opposed to a Kevin Hogan type whose odds are 0%.

 

Maybe that's the point with these QBs. Once you get beyond the top 3 picks they are all longshots. Some guys have less holes, some guys have less upside. You need to identify what it is you are looking for in a QB and get that guy.

[ice2145]

It's definitely slim. I would say under 10%. It was still a swing worth taking as opposed to a Kevin Hogan type whose odds are 0%.

 

Maybe that's the point with these QBs. Once you get beyond the top 3 picks they are all longshots. Some guys have less holes, some guys have less upside. You need to identify what it is you are looking for in a QB and get that guy.

 

Fair enough.

[Cripple Creek]

What I've heard.

 

I don't think people realize how far from playing he was. I've seen every snap that he's taken since high school and knew exactly what we were getting. People that thought he was going to come in and compete early were just wrong. That was never the plan. That wasn't the guy that they drafted. He was a project. The Bills have been pleased with his progress to date. That doesn't mean that he is close but it means that he is closer. Year 3 will be the time to start passing judgements.

Seems like an extremely low reward type situation. Sign a guy to a 4 year deal and hope you see something in year 3. Meanwhile you can't count on him so money must be spent on a #2. Then in year 3/4 you hope to get a glimpse of his abilities without really having seen him perform in anything other than preseason games. Based on that small sample size a team must decide whether to offer an extension after year 3 or roll the dice and let him enter the final year of his contract and FA.

 

If your assertion is correct cut him now and move on.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

Brad Johnson would be a better example.....he was a backup at Florida State and won a SB in Tampa.

 

It can happen but there is something a little off about Cardale and Meyer intimated to it.......it was a huge disappointment that he lost that QB job at Ohio State......JT Barrett is not very good......a guy with Cardale's talent should have been tearing it up with all that talent around him but he was basically just doing enough to win and Meyer wasn't having that.

 

Playing down to the competition was a Rob Johnson trait........I hope that isn't the case with Cardale.

I'm not taking urban Meyer's advice about an nfl qb unless I need an h-back or wr, thank you. He's proven that over the years. Edited February 5, 2017 by 4BillsintheBurgh

[BuffaloFan68]

It's a shame we can't wait until after the draft to make a decision with Tyrod. I hope we draft Mahomes.

Go Bills

[QuoteTheRaven83]

If you ever thought he'd develop into anything other than a backup, I don't know what to tell you. He's expendable.

[PromoTheRobot]

I think its sad that a project QB who will never amount to anything gets all this hype

So what project QB who will never amount to anything looks good to you in this draft?

 

Whats the difference between us tanking this year and us not making the playoffs since 1999?

From experience, the difference is enjoying a win every other week or so versus forgetting the tank was deliberate and losing our freaking minds going 4-12.

[John from Riverside]

Seems like an extremely low reward type situation. Sign a guy to a 4 year deal and hope you see something in year 3. Meanwhile you can't count on him so money must be spent on a #2. Then in year 3/4 you hope to get a glimpse of his abilities without really having seen him perform in anything other than preseason games. Based on that small sample size a team must decide whether to offer an extension after year 3 or roll the dice and let him enter the final year of his contract and FA.

 

If your assertion is correct cut him now and move on.

as a project qb? He has all pro tools and isnt making anything.

 

We do need a 1 anf a 2

[Mr. WEO]

This post shows why I don't believe anyone will be patient enough to develop a Bills QB. Cardale Jones is exactly the kind of flyer pick people say the Bills need to make. But a year later we want the next shiny object.

 

 

He's a third string QB. No one is really developing those. This isn't 2001.....

[Kirby Jackson]

If you ever thought he'd develop into anything other than a backup, I don't know what to tell you. He's expendable.

I guess that this is where we disagree. He is either going to develop into a good QB or be out of the league. He has the tools of the best QBs but the consistency of the worst. Backup QBs have limited skills but usually are fairly safe. That's not Cardale. He's more of an all or nothing proposition. He's a lottery ticket.

[JohnC]

If you ever thought he'd develop into anything other than a backup, I don't know what to tell you. He's expendable.

If he turned into a backup qb then the return on investment would be tremendous.

[Punching Bag]

 

Some clarity is in order. This years QB draft class looks like it's one of the worst, and next year's seems like it might be one of the best.

 

So...

 

1. Move on from Taylor (he's the top end of the mediocre level we've come to expect at the position)

2. Sign a cheap veteran QB like Hoyer

3. Start Hoyer (or whoever) and when Jones gets even close to ready you play him till the end of the season.

4. If Jones doesn't cut it (looking at 4-12 record), you select your franchise QB for the next 10-15 years.

 

Bills fans should be able to wait one more year. Watch Cardale Jones when he gets his chance and also watch college football for the future QB of the Bills that they'll be picking in the 2018 draft.

 

 

Here is the issue...this roster is too talented to lose 12 games. I mean we had the awful Orton/EJ combo and still won nine games, so if you bring in Hoyer I don't think we would lose 12 games, in fact, I think we would remain competitive.

 

Now, if Cardale was the starter and a disaster sure, then I think we could lose enough to be in the conversation for top pick...but this team would be too competitive still with Hoyer to compete for the top pick next year, or even a top 5 and probably not even get a top 10 pick.

Your strategy has the words TANK written all over it in big freaking letters. And that doesn't sell tickets or merchandise or bring new fans to the team.

 

The Bills fans are too venomous right now to accept tanking and the media will enjoy stirring the pot to make it worse, Bills fans will not wait 1 more year.

You can talk about Bills fan support but in scenerio "1billsfan" is talking about there were will be fans who will not renewing tickets and season ticket sales will go down although some may be purchased by scalpers who will sell them to opposing fans.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

 

 

 

The Bills fans are too venomous right now to accept tanking and the media will enjoy stirring the pot to make it worse, Bills fans will not wait 1 more year.

You can talk about Bills fan support but in scenerio "1billsfan" is talking about there were will be fans who will not renewing tickets and season ticket sales will go down although some may be purchased by scalpers who will sell them to opposing fans.

Bills fans always wait one more year.

[dave mcbride]

It's definitely slim. I would say under 10%. It was still a swing worth taking as opposed to a Kevin Hogan type whose odds are 0%.

Maybe that's the point with these QBs. Once you get beyond the top 3 picks they are all longshots. Some guys have less holes, some guys have less upside. You need to identify what it is you are looking for in a QB and get that guy.

I think it's less than 5 percent. I'd say above 2 percent, however. He looks like a pretty poor player to me who is way behind the curve. He also has serious mechanics issues. Can he improve? I suppose, but he strikes me as a dolt. That's not a positive feature, obviously. Edited February 7, 2017 by dave mcbride

[Kirby Jackson]

I think it's less than 5 percent. I'd say above 2 percent, however. He looks like a pretty poor player to me who is way behind the curve. He also has serious mechanics issues. Can he improve? I suppose, but he strikes me as a dolt. That's not a positive feature, obviously.

I think that's a lot of people's impression of Cardale because he's such a goofball. It's not really the case though. Cardale is a good worker and competitive as hell. That's one of his best traits. As an OSU fan obviously I have an affinity for Cardale. At the same time I try to be objective when talking about my teams. He was always going to take some time.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/bills-cardale-jones-gaining-notice/amp/?client=safari

[BADOLBILZ]

I think that's a lot of people's impression of Cardale because he's such a goofball. It's not really the case though. Cardale is a good worker and competitive as hell. That's one of his best traits. As an OSU fan obviously I have an affinity for Cardale. At the same time I try to be objective when talking about my teams. He was always going to take some time.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/bills-cardale-jones-gaining-notice/amp/?client=safari

 

 

How does someone with that much talent.......who is "competitive as hell"........look so flat and listless when given the starting job then loses it to JT Barrett?

 

I'm not a big fan of Urban Liar but he kinda' sh*t on Cardale a bit on his way out the door.......same with Adolphus.......and we got to see some of that rationale in both of those guys this year.

[FireChan]

 

 

How does someone with that much talent.......who is "competitive as hell"........look so flat and listless when given the starting job then loses it to JT Barrett?

 

I'm not a big fan of Urban Liar but he kinda' sh*t on Cardale a bit on his way out the door.......same with Adolphus.......and we got to see some of that rationale in both of those guys this year.

Not to get off topic but I've seen this sentiment expressed about Adolphus and I'm not sure what I missed this season.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

How does someone with that much talent.......who is "competitive as hell"........look so flat and listless when given the starting job then loses it to JT Barrett?

 

I'm not a big fan of Urban Liar but he kinda' sh*t on Cardale a bit on his way out the door.......same with Adolphus.......and we got to see some of that rationale in both of those guys this year.

Cardale wasn't recruited by Urban. Barrett was a much better fit in that system and a much better player in 2015 than 2016. The offense wasn't in sync; the whole team wasn't until they lost. After that loss to MSU they re-focused and played as well as anyone in the country. It was just too late.

 

People mistake Cardale's happy-go-lucky attitude for apathy. The school tweet was years ago but he still gets crap for that. Washington is a little different story. The hooker was pretty selfish and immature. When Lynn benched him that tells you all that you need to know about how hard he was working.

[BADOLBILZ]

Not to get off topic but I've seen this sentiment expressed about Adolphus and I'm not sure what I missed this season.

 

 

See Kirby post about Adolphus.

[FireChan]

 

 

See Kirby post about Adolphus.

So he got benched?

[Thurman#1]

Serious question: what do you do with Cardale?

 

All you ever hear about him is that he's not ready, which he proved hugely in the Jets game. You also read there's no time during the regular season to develop him because other QB's need the rep's. So when does he get ready?

 

If you bring back Tyrod, he plays and he's probably here a few more years. Where's the window for Cardale? If he's "not ready," how do you make him the 2nd QB even with EJ gone?

 

If you don't bring back Tyrod, someone else plays because Cardale's not ready. You pick up a serviceable vet and probably forget about the playoffs.

 

If you draft Watson at #10 (which appeals to me a lot), there's a better chance of him playing early -- like in 2017 -- than Cardale.

 

So what's the point of carrying Cardale? What are you supposed to do with him and when?

 

 

 

From the beginning he was thought to be a guy who would need two years of development or even more.

 

So you hold onto him, as a #3, and you coach him hard, no matter what else you do at QB.

 

Every other day this guy has a post somewhere and for some reason a bigger fan base than Da'Rick Rogers.

He didnt do squat in college and he should have been a UDFA pick this past draft.

He's a nobody.

 

 

 

That's not hype. That's hope. That's what happens with Bills backup QBs because we haven't got a real starter yet.

 

Remember the attention Brohm got? And Hamdan? Hell, some people wanted Reich over Kelly at some points.

Seems like an extremely low reward type situation. Sign a guy to a 4 year deal and hope you see something in year 3. Meanwhile you can't count on him so money must be spent on a #2. Then in year 3/4 you hope to get a glimpse of his abilities without really having seen him perform in anything other than preseason games. Based on that small sample size a team must decide whether to offer an extension after year 3 or roll the dice and let him enter the final year of his contract and FA.

 

If your assertion is correct cut him now and move on.

 

 

Four years, $2.7 million. You wouldn't save any money.

 

And it's not a low reward situation. If he becomes good the reward could be huge. Granted, the likelihood isn't great, but this team needs to make QB its number one priority, without a close #2. Keeping him is a tiny investment.

REPS, people! If he doesn't get the reps he can't improve. -End of story.

 

You suddenly decide to TOSS the kid into a game the backup ALREADY LOST at the end of a season the where the regular starter went 7-8

 

what MORON thinks this is a good way to break-in a rookie?

 

In 18 years this team has PERFECTED the art of FAILING young QB's, and it's disgusting... Bring in Watson, Trubisky, or whoever. They'll FAIL because the expectations (by the organization) are idiotic. And the processs of development is Bass-ackwards...

 

 

It's perfectly possible to improve without game reps. There's this thing called practice. And another called mental reps. And another called film study. And you don't need reps to work on your mechanics.

 

Tyrod's a good example. I'm still not convinced he'll ever be a franchise guy, but he certainly improved a ton in Baltimore and in the preseason at Buffalo.

[BADOLBILZ]

So he got benched?

 

Yep, inactive for Jets game.

 

After a nice preseason he'd been an apparition for most of the season anyway.

[GunnerBill]

 

Yep, inactive for Jets game.

 

After a nice preseason he'd been an apparition for most of the season anyway.

 

Yep. Had a good pre-season and a reasonable first 5 weeks and then really faded into nothingness. Either his rookie wall came extremely early or he just isn't very good. I hadn't really looked into him at all in my evaluations last year but he was advertised as someone with some way to go against the run but with the potential to be a good interior pass rusher. He got very little push on passing snaps most of the year - I thought his best game was in LA and he flashed against the Cardinals early on too. After that he was a non factor.

[8-8 Forever?]

 

Some clarity is in order. This years QB draft class looks like it's one of the worst, and next year's seems like it might be one of the best.

 

So...

 

1. Move on from Taylor (he's the top end of the mediocre level we've come to expect at the position)

2. Sign a cheap veteran QB like Hoyer

3. Start Hoyer (or whoever) and when Jones gets even close to ready you play him till the end of the season.

4. If Jones doesn't cut it (looking at 4-12 record), you select your franchise QB for the next 10-15 years.

 

Bills fans should be able to wait one more year. Watch Cardale Jones when he gets his chance and also watch college football for the future QB of the Bills that they'll be picking in the 2018 draft.

strongly recommend Bills fans find something else to do for about 2 years... blowup = rebuild = suck

[PaattMaann]

I would be shocked if they kicked him to the curb. They drafted him knowing it would take time. He showed progress which is what they hoped. I can't see them pulling the plug on the development. Ideally every team has a guy like that. In addition, he will never make it back to the practice squad.

Not attacking you so please don't take this that way....

 

You keep saying "the coaching staff saw progress throughout the year"...but do you have any evidence of this? Was this said it press conferences? Interviews? I was pretty in tune with those and only ever heard them specifically say that he was really struggling and then some source said he couldn't even handle running the practice squad (I cannot recall for the life of me where that report came from but I specifically remember it was from a reliable source).

 

I know, and you don't give most bills fans credit - at least the fans I know and interact with - that he was drafted as a raw project with no hope of seeing the field for 1-3 years, but I was disheartened by the lack of progress alllllll year from cardale. So, if you could shed some light on where you had been hearing of actual progress that would make me feel better. Thanks in advance.

[simpleman]

I find it interesting that after 3/4 of a game of suck from EJ in the final game, Jones came in and played a brief time. Yes, he was a little too overconfident in his throws and needed to be a little less reckless, but he did move the team. Considering it was his first real time in an NFL, I didn't think he was horrible. He never had enough time to settle down, and he was in an almost hopeless situation by the time he came into the game and he was under pressure to do something huge to win the game, not in the situation of just being able to play conservative to protect a big lead.

I don't know how people can be so sure Jones can not be good. At this point I have no idea exactly what Jones is and isn't capable of if given a chance. But I would like to give him a real chance next year to flop face first into the turf, or to surprise us. I'm not saying he should start, but I would like to see him get some time at the end of games where we are either hopelessly out of it, or mop up duty where we are safely in the lead.

[BillsFanInJax]

Clipboard...Another Doug Whaley reach...

[Kirby Jackson]

Not attacking you so please don't take this that way....

 

You keep saying "the coaching staff saw progress throughout the year"...but do you have any evidence of this? Was this said it press conferences? Interviews? I was pretty in tune with those and only ever heard them specifically say that he was really struggling and then some source said he couldn't even handle running the practice squad (I cannot recall for the life of me where that report came from but I specifically remember it was from a reliable source).

 

I know, and you don't give most bills fans credit - at least the fans I know and interact with - that he was drafted as a raw project with no hope of seeing the field for 1-3 years, but I was disheartened by the lack of progress alllllll year from cardale. So, if you could shed some light on where you had been hearing of actual progress that would make me feel better. Thanks in advance.

I posted some earlier (quotes from A Lynn). http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/bills-cardale-jones-gaining-notice/amp/?client=safari

 

That is specific to his work ethic. Here is some more: https://e8k0luq9wg.execute-api.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/v1/articles/19838760/could_cardale_jones_be_the_franchise_qb_the_buffalo_bills_have_been_waiting_for.amp?client=safari "He's what you want waiting on the runway..."

Edited February 8, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[PaattMaann]

I posted some earlier (quotes from A Lynn). http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/bills-cardale-jones-gaining-notice/amp/?client=safari

 

That is specific to his work ethic. Here is some more: https://e8k0luq9wg.execute-api.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/v1/articles/19838760/could_cardale_jones_be_the_franchise_qb_the_buffalo_bills_have_been_waiting_for.amp?client=safari "He's what you want waiting on the runway..."

 

much obliged, thanks

[Kirby Jackson]

 

much obliged, thanks

No problem

[Kemp]

You do EXACTLY what you always planned on doing with a Cardale. You continue to develop him. He made big strides in year 1 and still has a ways to go. This isn't a surprise to the Bills. He was a raw prospect with a high celing. He wasn't being drafted to be a solid back-up that can play day one. He was a guy that was drafted because he has the raw tools to be a star. His role this year probably looks a lot like his role last year. That's not a disappointment or a surprise, that was the plan.

 

Curious to know what these big strides are.

The Bills coaching staff was happy with his development as the year went along. There was talk of it late in the year. He was a LONG way from playing when he came. He's closer now.

 

Would that be the same coaching staff that thought the Bills were a Super Bowl contender?

[JohnC]

I think that's a lot of people's impression of Cardale because he's such a goofball. It's not really the case though. Cardale is a good worker and competitive as hell. That's one of his best traits. As an OSU fan obviously I have an affinity for Cardale. At the same time I try to be objective when talking about my teams. He was always going to take some time.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/bills-cardale-jones-gaining-notice/amp/?client=safari

There are always issues of mechanics when Cardale is brought up. You are familiar with him as a college player. Is he in general an accurate passer? Can he make anticipatory throws? I realize that he didn't get much playing time in college but did he exhibit those traits in college?

[Commish]

Does anyone find it strange that there is so little public information on what the Bills organization really thinks of Jones. Could it be that they don't want to tip their hat vis-a-vis negotiations with Tyrod, with Romo or other free agents, how high they're likely to draft a QB?

[PolishDave]

Does anyone find it strange that there is so little public information on what the Bills organization really thinks of Jones. Could it be that they don't want to tip their hat vis-a-vis negotiations with Tyrod, with Romo or other free agents, how high they're likely to draft a QB?

 

No because he is a 3rd string QB. If he hadn't earned the right to be the number 2 QB yet, then that pretty much tells you all you need to know.

 

It would be really nice, however, if the Bills did a video and blog post about him and how is development is coming along. - Like a really detailed one that shows what they are specifically trying to improve and how that is coming along.

 

They will most likely keep quiet about QB's from now till free agency unless they want to try to release propaganda rumors in an attempt to influence the moves they want to make.