Bills Plan to improve the offense “The power of prayer"

[simpleman]

By any metric the right side of the Bill’s Offensive line was almost a tire fire last year.

 

In spite of the excellent running and passing talent last year, there was a big black hole on the right side.

 

An excellent RB tandem. Watkins, McCoy & Clay. TT’s natural ability to take of and run helped pad the stats and masked the weaknesses of the OL. Incognito played way out of his skull last year. Glen was his steady solid self again. The Bill’s pray that Incognito will still play insanely on fire and Glenn will stay solid & steady.

 

Yet this off-season Bills management has done nothing significant via FA or the draft to address the right side of the OL. The RT situation is still a mess. The RG situation was bad last year, and the team’s plan A, B & C is praying that Miller will have a 2^nd year where the light finally turns on for him. Unfortunately this plan is backed up by little more than faith and hope.

 

The team has Watkins at WR, with Woods as an average slot. Beyond that are a bunch of warm bodies at WR & ST players being counted in the offense. They lost a passable WR in Hogan & didn’t replace him with comparable talent. Harvin retired without comparable replacement. Talent wise the team has less talent than last year.

 

The Bills plan to improve offensive performance, praying TT will make a major improvement this year. Wow, I’m impressed with all this team has done to improve the offense this year. The “power of prayer”, the plan A,B.C, D and F for the Bills to get better on offense in 2016.

 

* Remember the stats are padded by TT's running ability & the guard stats are padded by Incognito having a stellar year at guard.

 

 

I apologize, I created some really nice tables from stats from Football Outsiders to back all this up,and inserted them here but TBD does not appear to support uploading images or tables. And preview mode showed them fine before actual posting. And it is not obvious if the my media function is even enabled for the board.

 

Quote from PFF

“… it’s really a tale of two sides. On the left, their pairing is as good as any in the league, and on the right, it’s as bad as any.”

Edited May 1, 2016 by simpleman

[Coach Tuesday]

What the what?

[YoloinOhio]

I don't get it

[Nanker]

It's a hot mess. That's what.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

I just threw up on my slippers, and my dog is humping the cactus plant. Yeeeoooowch!!

[nucci]

Brilliant

[beastman]

Ya I don't realy get it......

[dubs]

 

* Remember the stats are padded by TT's running ability & the guard stats are padded by Incognito having a stellar year at guard.

 

 

 

Hah!! The guard stats were padded by the guard play! Classic

[Ronin]

Excellent post simpleman!!

 

You're one of the few that seems to get it.

 

Despite all of that, not one draft expert, nor any of the team's "experts," and I use the term tremendously loosely as they're only experts in collecting large paychecks, had WR as even a depth concern going into the draft when as with you I see a glaring hole at one starting WR spot since as we agree, Woods is at best a reliable 3rd/slot.

 

Meanwhile, two seasons ago Whaley sold the farm to get Watkins, when this year comparable talent was sitting right there without the run on WRs having yet occurred, and we could have had a WR equal to or perhaps even better than Watkins in traffic as there were several, all taken in the run immediately following our first pick.

 

We could have then had Cody Whitehair to solidify the OL and give our RT a shot at goodness as well.

 

Meanwhile, Watkins has struggled with injuries since he's been on the team and Woods was hurt for a significant portion of last season, yet, our marvelous brainiacs at OBD apparently haven't thought about what happens if in the high likelihood that one of the two gets hurt and misses significant time.

 

Meanwhile, they bolster the rushing game with a RB that doesn't catch the ball, and stockpile the D with run defenders as if this is 1988.

 

All the while not one person in the Bills sports media bothers to point out that 35 sacks from Schwartz's D were gotten from players still on this team, it's just that Ryan can't get them from those players. Apparently run defenders will help.

 

Prior to the draft the talk, here and elsewhere, was about how we needed pass rushers. So we get run defenders and everyone applauds Whaley.

 

5-7 wins this season, if Taylor, Watkins, Woods, or Glenn go down, we'll be lucky to win any games at all from that point onward.

[simpleman]

Hah!! The guard stats were padded by the guard play! Classic

If the board software supported images or tables you would have seen that the left and right guard performance stats used from Football Outsiders combined them into one stat for the guards, not separating them into left or right side. Which was the whole point of talking about the left side of the OL being very good, but the right side being a glaring weakness and a serious problem for an offense supposedly based the strength of it's run game.

Edited May 1, 2016 by simpleman

[Ronin]

If the board software supported images or tables you would have seen that the left and right guard performance stats used from outsiders combined them into one stat

 

All I know is that Miller played like crap according to the metrics as well as by eye. Not to mention he was hurt for a good chunk of the season. Yet, some here will insist that he played well.

 

This team drafted as if were the '80s or '90s. And frankly, do we really need a rushing RB, no, we don't. It doesn't really matter, under Whaley we'll be fortunate to have even one player drafted from the 3rd round on out even be relevant at some point.

 

Meanwhile, they take Listenbee, as if they haven't learned, and they haven't, from the Graham, Goodwin, and Easeley picks of the past, that track stars rarely if ever do anything significant in the NFL. 12th time must be the charm tho.

[YoloinOhio]

Hah!! The guard stats were padded by the guard play! Classic

oh - now I get it

 

O_o

If the board software supported images or tables you would have seen that the left and right guard performance stats used from Football Outsiders combined them into one stat for the guards, not separating them into left or right side. Which was the whole point of talking about the left side of the OL being very good, but the right side being a glaring weakness and a serious problem for an offense supposedly based the strength of it's run game.

Ok - that makes sense now

[Gray Beard]

I was hoping for some OL talent in the middle rounds of the draft. They picked up a few UDFA bodies later in the day on Saturday. Will that be enough to make a difference?

If that is what the OP was trying to say, then I understand his concern. Otherwise, I feel that this draft will turn out to be a good one for the Bills.

[ALF]

I'am counting on Kromer to get Miller and the rest OL better .

 

Letting Urbik go as a ok RG is still curious

 

If Henderson is healthy , a big if , the right side could be ok

[Nanker]

If the board software supported images or tables you would have seen that the left and right guard performance stats used from Football Outsiders combined them into one stat for the guards, not separating them into left or right side. Which was the whole point of talking about the left side of the OL being very good, but the right side being a glaring weakness and a serious problem for an offense supposedly based the strength of it's run game.

They do. You're just too simple to know how to use them.

[atlbillsfan1975]

OR the Bills FO and coaches have the belief that players will continue to develope. This belief is important for Miller and Mills. The Front office and coaches also believe that Henderson will return because they have been monitoring his progress with team doctors.

 

I understand right now the left side is proven more what it is than the right side. That was not going to change at all by the draft. A rookie is a rookie. Look at the first round tackle the Rams took a few years back(early and on phone help me with his name). He struggled to get on the field for a year .

Telling me that anyone taken In the draft is a sure thing is wishful, much less someone taken after round one. Why do I say this? Because none of them have played a down of meaningful NFL football yet.

Edited May 1, 2016 by atlbillsfan1975

[Ronin]

I'am counting on Kromer to get Miller and the rest OL better .

 

Letting Urbik go as a ok RG is still curious

 

If Henderson is healthy , a big if , the right side could be ok

 

Miller will have to make a huge leap to be the answer at RG. I've loved Henderson since he was drafted, but have been very disappointed in how he's played.

 

Whitehair would have made a world of difference plugged in at RG.

[YoloinOhio]

I'am counting on Kromer to get Miller and the rest OL better .

 

Letting Urbik go as a ok RG is still curious

 

If Henderson is healthy , a big if , the right side could be ok

they replaced Urbik with Velasco. I don't know how good Velasco is but I know Urbik wasn't good, so not too curious IMO

[CSBill]

 

The Bills plan to improve offensive performance, praying TT will make a major improvement this year. Wow, I’m impressed with all this team has done to improve the offense this year. The “power of prayer”, the plan A,B.C, D and F for the Bills to get better on offense in 2016.

 

* Remember the stats are padded by TT's running ability & the guard stats are padded by Incognito having a stellar year at guard.

 

 

I apologize, I created some really nice tables from stats from Football Outsiders to back all this up,and inserted them here but TBD does not appear to support uploading images or tables. And preview mode showed them fine before actual posting. And it is not obvious if the my media function is even enabled for the board.

 

Quote from PFF

“… it’s really a tale of two sides. On the left, their pairing is as good as any in the league, and on the right, it’s as bad as any.”

 

Certainly no team would ever expect that a player might improve the next year . . . I had some stats and a table to show the ridiculousness of this post, but, well, it was't necessary

[Dorkington]

We were one of the top rushing teams, and TT had the longest time to throw in the league as far as I know... so yeah, on paper the team might be weak on the right side, but it's clearly not *that* bad, or easily made up for by scheme, because otherwise the referenced wouldn't be happening.

[simpleman]

 

All I know is that Miller played like crap according to the metrics as well as by eye. Not to mention he was hurt for a good chunk of the season. Yet, some here will insist that he played well.

 

This team drafted as if were the '80s or '90s. And frankly, do we really need a rushing RB, no, we don't. It doesn't really matter, under Whaley we'll be fortunate to have even one player drafted from the 3rd round on out even be relevant at some point.

 

Meanwhile, they take Listenbee, as if they haven't learned, and they haven't, from the Graham, Goodwin, and Easeley picks of the past, that track stars rarely if ever do anything significant in the NFL. 12th time must be the charm tho.

I agree on all points. The Bills management and many of the fans approached this draft with blinders on limiting their approach to and judgement of it to just trying to fix the self-inflicted destruction of the past year done to a top 5 defensive roster by Rex and management. Meanwhile management's offensive improvement strategy was to make like an ostrich and count on "the power of prayer".

They do. You're just too simple to know how to use them.

Maybe if some of the long time posters here spent more time constructively helping us learn how to use them and less time being sarcastic and personally insulting we wouldn't be so simple.

Edited May 1, 2016 by simpleman

[ganesh]

I agree with you. Unfortunately the Bills had too many holes to fill and they had to start from the Defense. It will probably take another draft to address the OL. Remember they are also up against the Salary cap.

We were one of the top rushing teams, and TT had the longest time to throw in the league as far as I know... so yeah, on paper the team might be weak on the right side, but it's clearly not *that* bad, or easily made up for by scheme, because otherwise the referenced wouldn't be happening.

The rushing stats were on higher because of TT and Shady. When Shady went down, this team struggled to run the football.

[Dorkington]

I agree with you. Unfortunately the Bills had too many holes to fill and they had to start from the Defense. It will probably take another draft to address the OL. Remember they are also up against the Salary cap.

The rushing stats were on higher because of TT and Shady. When Shady went down, this team struggled to run the football.

TT and Shady's rushing stats don't count?

 

Karlos and Gillislee both averaged 5.6ypc. So three of our RBs had good success, our QB had good success. But they don't count because Boom Herron and Boobie Dixon struggled? Seriously?'

 

Tyrod/Shady/Karlos/Mike (Don't count)

 

447 att, 2247yds, 5 ypc, 17 tds

88%att, 92%yds, 89% tds

 

Boom/Boobie (Do count)

 

32 att, 81 yds. 2.5ypc, 1 td

6%att, 3%ypc, 5%td

 

TBD continues to be filled with amazing minds.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Dorkington

[simpleman]

OR the Bills FO and coaches have the belief that players will continue to develope. This belief is important for Miller and Mills. The Front office and coaches also believe that Henderson will return because they have been monitoring his progress with team doctors.

 

I understand right now the left side is proven more what it is than the right side. That was not going to change at all by the draft. A rookie is a rookie. Look at the first round tackle the Rams took a few years back(early and on phone help me with his name). He struggled to get on the field for a year .

Telling me that anyone taken In the draft is a sure thing is wishful, much less someone taken after round one. Why do I say this? Because none of them have played a down of meaningful NFL football yet.

The point is you need to have a better plan than a belief (or a prayer) that someone may improve. Where is the plan B,C,D? A player may improve, or he may get worse or backslide. Henderson is what he is, an acceptable backup. He has had years to prove otherwise and the statistics show exactly what he is. As you say, taking someone even in the 1st round is nothing more than a gamble. Not taking anyone in the draft at all is throwing your money on the table and folding before the cards are even dealt. You are guaranteed to lose.

[GunnerBill]

Two things -

 

1. I know what the metrics say, but I have been back and re-watched every Bills offensive snap last year. Does Miller have a way to go in his pass blocking? Yes, it was pretty horrible. But his run blocking was above average until the point he got hurt. I know the numbers say we ran better to the left that to the right.... but that doesn't take into account the number of times while he was 100% healthy that the Bills pulled Miller and ran left with him blocking out in space in front. He was not as bad as some of the grading sites have graded him. I don't think it prayer expecting him to come on in year 2 if he stays healthy.... I think the evidence is right there on tape.

 

2. I feel like I am doing Metz's job for him but here goes - the standard of line play around the league is bang average. The Bills line, even with its issues on the right side (and whilst I defend Miller to some extent the standard of the right tackle play was pretty horrible throughout give or take 2 good games (one from Seantrel and one from Mills), was a top 10/12 line in 2015. Keeping the line together gives them a chance to improve but it was not the major area that needed improvement this offseason.

 

The conclusion? Sure I'd have liked to have seen a tackle added for competition somewhere in the mid to late rounds (I think that would have been a bigger "need" than another running back) but the Bills stuck to their board.

[Doc]

Jordan Mills joined the Bills after the season started, meaning he missed all off-season, training camp, and pre-season with the team. He'll get that this year and should be much better for it, and figures to be pencilled-in as the starting RT. Henderson's Crohn's issues appear to be under control and he'll get a chance to compete at RT and/or backup LT. MIller should also improve after getting his injury-marred rookie season behind him. Velasco replaces Urbik. I don't think the OL situation is a dire as the OP contends, but time will tell.

 

As for other spots, hopefully the rash of injuries won't hit the studs at the skill positions (Sammy, Shady, and Clay) again like last year, as well as Woods, who can be a fine #2 when healthy. And Hankerson easily replaces what they lost in Hogan. I also think Listenbee will be a great addition to the offense, but that remains to be seen.

 

Most of the team is in their second season with the coaches and scheme. That also accounts for something.

[GunnerBill]

Jordan Mills joined the Bills after the season started, meaning he missed all off-season, training camp, and pre-season with the team. He'll get that this year and should be much better for it, and figures to be pencilled-in as the starting RT. Henderson's Crohn's issues appear to be under control and he'll get a chance to compete at RT and/or backup LT. MIller should also improve after getting his injury-marred rookie season behind him. Velasco replaces Urbik. I don't think the OL situation is a dire as the OP contends, but time will tell.

 

As for other spots, hopefully the rash of injuries won't hit the studs at the skill positions (Sammy, Shady, and Clay) again like last year, as well as Woods, who can be a fine #2 when healthy. And Hankerson easily replaces what they lost in Hogan. I also think Listenbee will be a great addition to the offense, but that remains to be seen.

 

Most of the team is in their second season with the coaches and scheme. That also accounts for something.

 

Other than us disagreeing on the value of Hogan (which we don't need to rehash here) I agree with this.

Edited May 1, 2016 by GunnerBill

[atlbillsfan1975]

The point is you need to have a better plan than a belief (or a prayer) that someone may improve. Where is the plan B,C,D? A player may improve, or he may get worse or backslide. Henderson is what he is, an acceptable backup. He has had years to prove otherwise and the statistics show exactly what he is. As you say, taking someone even in the 1st round is nothing more than a gamble. Not taking anyone in the draft at all is throwing your money on the table and folding before the cards are even dealt. You are guaranteed to lose.

The Bills have tape and have worked with Miller, Mills, and Henderson. I will trust the coaches that those players are going to improve.

[simpleman]

Two things -

 

1. I know what the metrics say, but I have been back and re-watched every Bills offensive snap last year. Does Miller have a way to go in his pass blocking? Yes, it was pretty horrible. But his run blocking was above average until the point he got hurt. I know the numbers say we ran better to the left that to the right.... but that doesn't take into account the number of times while he was 100% healthy that the Bills pulled Miller and ran left with him blocking out in space in front. He was not as bad as some of the grading sites have graded him. I don't think it prayer expecting him to come on in year 2 if he stays healthy.... I think the evidence is right there on tape.

 

2. I feel like I am doing Metz's job for him but here goes - the standard of line play around the league is bang average. The Bills line, even with its issues on the right side (and whilst I defend Miller to some extent the standard of the right tackle play was pretty horrible throughout give or take 2 good games (one from Seantrel and one from Mills), was a top 10/12 line in 2015. Keeping the line together gives them a chance to improve but it was not the major area that needed improvement this offseason.

 

The conclusion? Sure I'd have liked to have seen a tackle added for competition somewhere in the mid to late rounds (I think that would have been a bigger "need" than another running back) but the Bills stuck to their board.

I know we have had this conversation before and you distrust PFF's rating. Football Outsiders overall rating of the OL was 23rd. I had tried to include their ratings in a self made tables as, they broke it down by left and right in run, pass and more. But could not find a way to share the tables.

 

The point to me is that the left side of the line was outstanding trying to make up for the horrible right side. It made the overall Bills OL ratings higher. Imagine if the right side could just be "standard" instead of a lead sinker.

[Doc]

Other than us disagreeing on the value of Hogan (which we don't need to rehash here) I agree with this.

 

Hogan had 36 catches for 450 yards and 2 TD's in 16 games with 4 starts last year. In half a season last year with the Falcons, with no starts, Hankerson caught 26 passes for 327 yards and 3 TD's. I'm not saying Hank is a stud, but he can easily replace Hogan's production if he's counted on to play.

I know we have had this conversation before and you distrust PFF's rating. Football Outsiders overall rating of the OL was 23rd. I had tried to include their ratings in a self made tables as, they broke it down by left and right in run, pass and more. But could not find a way to share the tables.

 

The point to me is that the left side of the line was outstanding trying to make up for the horrible right side. It made the overall Bills OL ratings higher. Imagine if the right side could just be "standard" instead of a lead sinker.

 

The left/center 3/5 of the OL was outstanding. The right 2/5 was manned by a rookie, a 2nd year RT dealing with an illness, and a guy brought-in 1/3 of the way into the season, in their first year in a new scheme, coached by a guy who missed the first 6 games. No surprise that side struggled.

[Beerball]

Why do all y'all have to act like dicks on a Sunday morning? Either you're too stupid to figure out that the Bills have a problem on the right side of their offensive line or you're simply dicks.

 

 

 

 

Knock it the !@#$ off.

 

The next person who makes me swear on a Sunday morning gets 30 days.

What the what?

 

 

I don't get it

 

 

It's a hot mess. That's what.

 

 

I just threw up on my slippers, and my dog is humping the cactus plant. Yeeeoooowch!!

 

 

Brilliant

 

 

Ya I don't realy get it......

 

 

Hah!! The guard stats were padded by the guard play! Classic

 

 

 

Great, a gaggle of dicks.

[GunnerBill]

I know we have had this conversation before and you distrust PFF's rating. Football Outsiders overall rating of the OL was 23rd. I had tried to include their ratings in a self made tables as, they broke it down by left and right in run, pass and more. But could not find a way to share the tables.

 

The point to me is that the left side of the line was outstanding trying to make up for the horrible right side. It made the overall Bills OL ratings higher. Imagine if the right side could just be "standard" instead of a lead sinker.

 

I know the tables you are talking about I have studied them myself. They don't account, as a I say, for the fact that Miller pulled out to the left of the line infront of McCoy pretty well and at least 2 or 3 times per game before the injury. The credit on those plays goes to the left of the line on their metric but Miller did a good job on those plays. Overall the right side was worse than the left without question. My point is that from my own work I have done I think there is more than prayer on which to base a presumption of improvement from John Miller. The right tackle spot is more of a question mark, but as Doc has indicated Jordan Mills has worked with Kromer before and didn't have the benefit of the offseason. I'd be amazed frankly if Mills did not end up the starter this year with Henderson in the swing tackle role.

 

 

 

Hogan had 36 catches for 450 yards and 2 TD's in 16 games with 4 starts last year. In half a season last year with the Falcons, with no starts, Hankerson caught 26 passes for 327 yards and 3 TD's. I'm not saying Hank is a stud, but he can easily replace Hogan's production if he's counted on to play.

 

Matt Ryan was a big factor in that. I like the Hankerson pick up don't get me wrong. But Chris Hogan is a better player than you and many others on this board have ever given him credit for.

[simpleman]

A constructive answer would be to tell me how to add an image to "My Media" or how to add a table or image to a post which is not on the internet already, so it can be linked to. Or how to add a table using the TBD BB software. Not insult me.

 

I'm sure others less experienced than some on the board might also like to know how. It could make the board more informative and civil.

 

How about some constructive help from the more experienced posters instead of arrogance and insults?

[Beerball]

 

How about some constructive help from the more experienced posters instead of arrogance and insults?

They can't help themselves, pack mentality. I think that I've properly chastised them and I expect that one or two (Nanker) will offer up some help via PM. I don't do tables myself.

[boater]

....

I apologize, I created some really nice tables from stats from Football Outsiders to back all this up,and inserted them here but TBD does not appear to support uploading images or tables. And preview mode showed them fine before actual posting. And it is not obvious if the my media function is even enabled for the board.

....

You could use Google Drive, and the publicly share it. Another poster did that a few days ago with spreadsheets of draft prospects.

 

Or you could setup a Dropbox account, and provide links to documents you make publicly accessible there.

Edited May 1, 2016 by boater

[atlbillsfan1975]

A constructive answer would be to tell me how to add an image to "My Media" or how to add a table or image to a post which is not on the internet already, so it can be linked to. Or how to add a table using the TBD BB software. Not insult me.

 

I'm sure others less experienced than some on the board might also like to know how. It could make the board more informative and civil.

 

How about some constructive help from the more experienced posters instead of arrogance and insults?

Good for you man! Seriously...I can tell by some people's posts that they are grown ups, and other times I question it.

 

We all have one thing in common , we love the Bills, and want them to win. We can disagree on everything else In life. But I think we need to remind ourself of that fact before we hit Add Reply sometimes. I admit I can do it to.

[Rockinon]

We have a QB with a very high rating and the Bills led the league in rushing last year. Yep, power of prayer.....

[simpleman]

 

I know the tables you are talking about I have studied them myself. They don't account, as a I say, for the fact that Miller pulled out to the left of the line infront of McCoy pretty well and at least 2 or 3 times per game before the injury. The credit on those plays goes to the left of the line on their metric but Miller did a good job on those plays. Overall the right side was worse than the left without question. My point is that from my own work I have done I think there is more than prayer on which to base a presumption of improvement from John Miller. The right tackle spot is more of a question mark, but as Doc has indicated Jordan Mills has worked with Kromer before and didn't have the benefit of the offseason. I'd be amazed frankly if Mills did not end up the starter this year with Henderson in the swing tackle role.

 

 

 

Matt Ryan was a big factor in that. I like the Hankerson pick up don't get me wrong. But Chris Hogan is a better player than you and many others on this board have ever given him credit for.

As a fan I hope you are right about Miller. I respect your beliefs and your opinion. I want him to succeed.

But my job is not to create a winning team. If it was my paying job I would not count on just "a hope & a prayer" to do my job to the best of my ability. I would have a plan B & C in place in case my prayers were not answered.

[RyanC883]

only so many draft picks. The overall quality at OL was poor beyond the first round, so better to get impact players at other positions.

Edited May 1, 2016 by RyanC883

[simpleman]

According to our analytics department, the power of prayer has a higher success rate than the gamble of a drafted player..... #havefaith #allhaildoug

Are you practicing to apply for the position of "Spinmaster" for Goodell? LOL