Twitter rumors about Bills new structure, fate of Rex/Whaley

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

@jchenelly: Division over Mario Williams. Coaches feel he let team down in leadership dept. Personnel guys feel he wasnt used right. No one happy #Bills

 

IMO - both are true, and it doesn't matter which side is "right" - he would have needed to have a great year to justify keeping him and he did not, not all on him OR all on scheme. He was gone either way due to how he played and acted, regardless of scheme.

if Rex is never hired then mario plays the proper position and gets 10+ sacks just like he did the three prior years. In this scenario nobody forgets how great a player he is and he gets restructured rather than cut.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

The whole final drive excuse is a red herring from the QB haters. They just look for ways to spin everything to their twisted view. The fact is the offense and QB position improved and exceeded our preseason hopes. What failed was the collapse of our vaunted defense.

Perfectly stated. I hate to be cliché, but there are those who would throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

It's not that simple folks, can't blame everything on the QB.

[JohnC]

 

I've said this before, but I disagree with your final point. think Marrone and Rex are dopplegangers, mirror images, each with a fatal flaw.

 

Marrone was an offense-minded coach who was smart enough to hire the best available talent at DC and leave them alone. The offensive unit he had, on the other hand, significantly underperformed. Keep in mind he had a younger FredEx and CJ Spiller, whose production fell off greatly from where it was under Gailey. He also had Watkins, Woods, a TE who was picked up by the Pats**, and Hogan as well as Goodwin who did show himself a deep threat when healthy. He did have some talent on the offensive side. He appeared to hold grudges and bench players whose training room regimen he disapproved after they became healthy.

 

Rex is a defense-minded coach who was smart enough to hire an OC who had shown he could get good performance out of meh QB and go to championships, give them good talent in McCoy, Karlos Williams, Woods, Watkins, Harvin, Hogan, and Clay . The defensive unit he has, on the other hand, significantly underperformed. He talked the talk about fitting his scheme to the talented players he had, but when it came down to it, he brought out a scheme that appears most ill-suited to the players talent. He didn't walk the walk. He embraces distractions that have to take away from preparation, including TV shows etc. He appears unable to hold players accountable for undiscipline play.

 

I would like to see a coach who functions as a head coach and brings in competence at both OC and DC.

 

It was sad to watch Arizona just shredding the same Eagles D that stopped us and macerating the same Eagles offense we couldn't stop last week

I respectfully but strenuously disagree with your point that Marrone and Rex are comparable coaches. Even if I concede that Marrone didn't hire a competent OC (I don't agree with that point) the reality is that the OL and qbing were so sub par that no highly regarded OC could have made that offense work. No play is going to work, brilliant or basic play, if the line can't block and the qb with a fading arm is immobile.

 

I submit that if Marrone and whomever he had as OC worked with the additions of Incognito, McCoy, Clay and Tyrod Taylor the offense not only would be better but it would be more creative than it was last year. Hackett in general took a conservative approach in order to not make mistakes and turn the ball over. As infuriating as it was to fans considering what he had to work with his Jauron approach to offense was a reasonable approach to take.

 

There are fair criticisms to be made against Marrone. But anyone who is fair-minded has to acknowledge that the team always played hard for him (even when it was over matched) and the team never quit for his as it has done for Rex, especially on defense.

 

In my view Marrone simply was a better coach than the glib Rex.

[4merper4mer]

if Rex is never hired then mario plays the proper position and gets 10+ sacks just like he did the three prior years. In this scenario nobody forgets how great a player he is and he gets restructured rather than cut.

You left out the part where we avoid watching him excel for another 5 years with the Pats*, which is probably what will happen.

[starrymessenger]

Holmgren is a good mention wrt a "cure-all czar". Holmgren was a total zero.

His failure to me was a function of an organizational structure that makes no sense. There is a reason why teams operate with a GM. It's his job to find players, through the draft or through trades, and otherwise run the front office and scouting department. He needs to be on the same page with the HC, or at least as far as possible.

To me a "football czar" is a temporary hire who analyses the situation, explains it to the owner, makes recommendations on the full gamut of football op issues and questions. Then he goes away and let's the owner make appropriately informed decisions and possibly he continues to advise with respect to implementation. But his job ends there.

So I'm fine with a czar coming in and taking a position on whether the current GM should be offered a new contract but I wouldn't see him assuming front office responsibilities. That's what the GM does, whoever he happens to be.

I actually thought that's what was in the cards and was reported/speculated.

[Direhard Fan]

I hate to say it but Rex stays. Whaley came from Pittsburg and has done a good job. No one bats 1000 in the draft. He has built the team up. Rex is the problem switching from a very good 4-3 to a 3-4 which not a good move. Than Rex lets the players run the show with 15 penaltys and has no idea how to control them. The "D" looked good against NE and that was about the only game where they looked like they knew what was going on. That is poor coaching. Play calling on "D" has been terrible. Coaching. And I started out saying Rex stays. Look what we have to look forward to next year!

Edited December 21, 2015 by Direhard Fan

[Pete]

Who is Dion Jordan?

[dpberr]

I don't think the "system" works as it is constructed. I think you need both a GM and coach that are on the same page. You almost have to hire them as a pair, not one hiring the other.

 

I think Polian has the right idea with the concept of the package deal. That may be the new way.

 

However, I'd never purchase his particular product.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

You left out the part where we avoid watching him excel for another 5 years with the Pats*, which is probably what will happen.

Please have mercy

[26CornerBlitz]

I hate to say it but Rex stays. Whaley came from Pittsburg and has done a good job. No one bats 1000 in the draft. He has built the team up. Rex is the problem switching from a very good 4-3 to a 3-4 which not a good move. Than Rex lets the players run the show with 15 penaltys and has no idea how to control them. The "D" looked good against NE and that was about the only game where they looked like they knew what was going on. That is poor coaching. Play calling on "D" has been terrible. Coaching. And I started out saying Rex stays. Look what we have to look forward to nest year!

 

Not exactly true. The defense also looked good in several other games like Indy, Miami (twice), and the Houston game. The problem has been lack of consistency in the approach, execution, and now they have been riddled with injuries to key players such as Kyle, Aaron, Bradham, and Gilmore.

[boyst]

Perfectly stated. I hate to be cliché, but there are those who would throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

It's not that simple folks, can't blame everything on the QB.

that term is derived from the old days when people were poor and the youngest and females went last. Therefore, the baby is the last in the dirty water.

[JohnC]

 

Belichick would cut him. Absolutely no question about it.

Agreed. Moss complained about his contract situation after a game to the media. Belichick sent him packing. You get discipline by enforcing discipline.

[iinii]

if it is on Twitter it must be true

[pi2000]

The reason this team never gets anywhere is because they blow it up every 2-3 years. Now, after 1 season with a new HC and D-system they're going to blow EVERYTHING up again?

 

It takes time, let them build the defense the way Rex wants it, I'm OK with giving them another couple of years to fill in the pieces. Blowing it up is the wrong move IMO, they're not that far away.

 

BIll Belichick was 5-11 with NE his first year as their HC, what if they blew it up? They won the Super Bowl the second year.

Edited December 21, 2015 by pi2000

[LeGOATski]

Whaley is a bright spot in this organization. I love the way he drafts. He's built a talented team. He has yet to get a great HC and QB. Those are the two toughest positions to fill.

 

With Rex, I have little hope. I can't believe what he did to this defense. It will be a long off-season.

 

I'd love it if they just made Roman the HC and, assuming Pettine's fired, brought him back as DC. There would be consistency there. The defense would be aggressive. Just add a DT and MLB to help with run D, like Rex will end up doing, anyway.

 

I think Roman has a more balanced personality and would run a better team. Nothing to back that up. Just my impression and opinion.

[Coach Tuesday]

Not many actual tweets in this thread.

 

Anyway, does anyone really doubt that if the Pegulas canvass external sources, they'll be told that their GM put together a talented roster? I don't. Yes they need an answer at QB. No one disputes this. But I have a hard time thinking that the consensus will be anything other than, you got snookered by a huckster coach.

[26CornerBlitz]

@ChrisBrownBills

Rex again refutes reports of rift btwn he and GM Doug Whaley. I have great deal of respect for him and believe feeling is mutual. #Bills

[thebandit27]

Not many actual tweets in this thread.

 

Anyway, does anyone really doubt that if the Pegulas canvass external sources, they'll be told that their GM put together a talented roster? I don't. Yes they need an answer at QB. No one disputes this. But I have a hard time thinking that the consensus will be anything other than, you got snookered by a huckster coach.

 

Good point.

[Sisyphean Bills]

His failure to me was a function of an organizational structure that makes no sense. There is a reason why teams operate with a GM. It's his job to find players, through the draft or through trades, and otherwise run the front office and scouting department. He needs to be on the same page with the HC, or at least as far as possible.

To me a "football czar" is a temporary hire who analyses the situation, explains it to the owner, makes recommendations on the full gamut of football op issues and questions. Then he goes away and let's the owner make appropriately informed decisions and possibly he continues to advise with respect to implementation. But his job ends there.

So I'm fine with a czar coming in and taking a position on whether the current GM should be offered a new contract but I wouldn't see him assuming front office responsibilities. That's what the GM does, whoever he happens to be.

I actually thought that's what was in the cards and was reported/speculated.

 

Sure. The point is simply that paying some "name" to waltz in and make recommendations isn't magic pixie dust. "Hire a czar!" is a slogan, nothing more.

 

There are a lot of variables. In this role, the consultant is brought in to advise on where the systemic problems are. For example, one such that is being kicked around is in how to construct a sustainable organization that wins. If you have one guy who wants X and another who needs Y, and puzzle piece A is best for B but refuses or cannot do C, then the system is flawed and fingerpointing isn't going to fix the defects that cause the system to keep repeating itself.

[Bill from NYC]

Bottom line is our GM paid a hefty price to move up to draft a receiver in a receiver rich draft.

With EJ Manuel at quarterback.

[26CornerBlitz]

@SalSports

Rex: "Absolutely, 100%" he and Doug Whaley get along. Says he has great respect for him and believes feeling is mutual

[K-Apps]

The reason this team never gets anywhere is because they blow it up every 2-3 years. Now, after 1 season with a new HC and D-system they're going to blow EVERYTHING up again?

 

It takes time, let them build the defense the way Rex wants it, I'm OK with giving them another couple of years to fill in the pieces. Blowing it up is the wrong move IMO, they're not that far away.

 

BIll Belichick was 5-11 with NE his first year as their HC, what if they blew it up? They won the Super Bowl the second year.

 

Rex is not a good head coach period and it's clear that the game has passed him by. No amount of shuffling players and trying to get players that fit his scheme will change that. Might as well cut your losses now becuase they is no way the Bills win more that 6 games next season with Rex Ryan next season

[Coach Tuesday]

 

Good point.

Thanks. Also, it seems to me that what is really needed is a football ops guy who can make sure that Whaley and Rex are working in tandem toward a coherent strategic plan. That seems to be what is missing. Whaley is a good scout but he hasn't learned how to work with any coaching staff and the dysfunction is evident on Sundays. Edited December 21, 2015 by Coach Tuesday

[LeGOATski]

@ChrisBrownBills

Rex again refutes reports of rift btwn he and GM Doug Whaley. I have great deal of respect for him and believe feeling is mutual. #Bills

This is deja vu with Marrone, isn't it?

 

"What? No...everything's great here." and then he splits.

[thebandit27]

Thanks. Also, it seems to me that what is really needed is a football ops guy who can make sure that Whaley and Rex are working in tandem toward a coherent strategic plan. That seems to be what is missing. Whaley is a good scout but he hasn't learned how to work with any coaching staff and the dysfunction is evident on Sundays.

 

I would've hoped that the Pegulas could've handled that role where Russ previously couldn't, but yeah, I'd like to see that as well.

 

The problem is that whoever is brought in to do so will be undeniably usurping power from both Whaley and Rex, which might drive a rift between all 3.

[LeGOATski]

Thanks. Also, it seems to me that what is really needed is a football ops guy who can make sure that Whaley and Rex are working in tandem toward a coherent strategic plan. That seems to be what is missing. Whaley is a good scout but he hasn't learned how to work with any coaching staff and the dysfunction is evident on Sundays.

In the off-season, they got a bunch of guys to fit the offense. Drafted a CB that fit a talented defense. How did Whaley not cooperate? Honest question.

 

There was a three-year plan in place where they worked on Defense, ST, and then Offense. Marrone was supposed to still be here, but whatever.

 

It seems that Rex was the one who didn't cooperate.

[YoloinOhio]

This is deja vu with Marrone, isn't it?

 

"What? No...everything's great here." and then he splits.

yeah, remember the "You're stuck with me" comment?

[LeGOATski]

 

I would've hoped that the Pegulas could've handled that role where Russ previously couldn't, but yeah, I'd like to see that as well.

 

The problem is that whoever is brought in to do so will be undeniably usurping power from both Whaley and Rex, which might drive a rift between all 3.

I think he's talking about basically a mediator between the GM and HC. Seems fine in theory. Would need to be a low-key hiring. A guy who knows his role.

 

Not some big, high profile, "Czar" hiring.

[26CornerBlitz]

@JaySkurski

Ryan says the #Bills will "look hard" in the offseason whether his scheme needs to be adjusted, or players that fit it better are needed.

[jeffismagic]

In the off-season, they got a bunch of guys to fit the offense. Drafted a CB that fit a talented defense. How did Whaley not cooperate? Honest question.

 

There was a three-year plan in place where they worked on Defense, ST, and then Offense. Marrone was supposed to still be here, but whatever.

 

It seems that Rex was the one who didn't cooperate.

I'm just guessing but Whaley seems like more of a tell it as it is guy then Rex.

 

Rex should have told Pegulas he would need to change players.

 

If Rex is here next year he better come clean with the owners and fans.

Edited December 21, 2015 by jeffismagic

[PromoTheRobot]

@JaySkurski

Ryan says the #Bills will "look hard" in the offseason whether his scheme needs to be adjusted, or players that fit it better are needed.

Rex and bis brother can look hard all they want from home looking at job ads.

[Pete]

Rex and bis brother can look hard all they want from home looking at job ads.

one can only hope. Not only did Rex squander a talented team and lead them to massively underachieve- he might cost us Mario and Whaley, due to his incompetence

[A Dog Named Kelso]

 

Um. Okay. You think he elevated the talent of his team and got them to play better than they actually were, but aren't willing to concede that he was a good coach?

 

Whatever, I don't care.

 

I only bring it up to say that Bills fans have been historically unreliable when it comes to determining that a coach must go.

Agreed. The point of my post was that with leadership and vision from the top perhaps the team would have would have found a way not to throw out what was good and fixed only what was needed and not blow it up to quiet the fans.

[LeGOATski]

@JaySkurski

Ryan says the #Bills will "look hard" in the offseason whether his scheme needs to be adjusted, or players that fit it better are needed.

Lol. The players are right here! They invested in talented players already!

 

WTF do you need, Rex? WTF...

[thebandit27]

I think he's talking about basically a mediator between the GM and HC. Seems fine in theory. Would need to be a low-key hiring. A guy who knows his role.

 

Not some big, high profile, "Czar" hiring.

 

They had that guy in Russ Brandon when Marrone was the coach...not sure why they think it'll go differently with someone else in the fold.

 

There's nothing to make me believe that haley and Ryan can't get on the same page at this point, as it seems that Rex felt that the players on hand could execute his scheme and was simply wrong in his belief. If, however, the two can't get on the same page, no additional voice in the room is going to make that happen IMO.

[May Day 10]

Yes, someone at the top. Can organize everything below him whether or not that includes Whaley, Rex, Overdorf, the equipment guys, people in charge of headsets/communications... whoever. Here is your contract, here is a clean slate. Make us a model franchise.

 

 

This organization has a systemic precondition of failure and has lacked real leadership for over a decade. This organization is not cursed. Refs, injuries, "no QB", coaches, headset failures, botched challenges, small market, no continuity, etc are symptoms. If they trash Rex and get the next guy, the losses and disfunction will continue. If they trash Whaley and keep the rest intact, the losses and disfunction will continue. They need someone at the rudder of the football department who is not the Pegulas or Russ Brandon and at long last REAL changes need to be made, a unified direction to make this a top football program that is sustainable. Rex's WWE crap and constant FO "agenda pushing" is not a sustainable model.

Edited December 21, 2015 by May Day 10

[LeGOATski]

 

They had that guy in Russ Brandon when Marrone was the coach...not sure why they think it'll go differently with someone else in the fold.

 

There's nothing to make me believe that haley and Ryan can't get on the same page at this point, as it seems that Rex felt that the players on hand could execute his scheme and was simply wrong in his belief. If, however, the two can't get on the same page, no additional voice in the room is going to make that happen IMO.

You're probably right. Russ Brandon isn't a "football guy" though.

[reddogblitz]

Lol. The players are right here! They invested in talented players already!

 

WTF do you need, Rex? WTF...

 

3 Pro Bowl Defensive Lineman not good enough for ya?

[RyanC883]

 

Rex is not a good head coach period and it's clear that the game has passed him by. No amount of shuffling players and trying to get players that fit his scheme will change that. Might as well cut your losses now becuase they is no way the Bills win more that 6 games next season with Rex Ryan next season

 

this is very true. The NYJ blew it up, and Rex got WORSE than before the blowup. Now, with his "necessary" players, they have a shot at the playoffs.

[Nihilarian]

I know some of you folks are concerned about a house cleaning...

 

I'm not...I think it's the best thing...

 

The only thing I'm kind-of-hoping is that Whaley can stay in charge of the Scouting Department, because I do think he's a pretty decent at evaluating talent and running that side...But it's not like I'm going to lose any sleep if they blow that up as well...

 

I just don't see how it's possible for anyone to think another couple years of Rex gives us a better chance at winning...Especially if we are unable to find a Franchise QB...Which is more-than-likely...Unfortunate as it is...I don't think Rex "has it" any longer...He could not get this team to buy in, and even though he's just about the polar-opposite of Marrone personality-wise Rex could not get this roster to take the next step despite upgrades at QB, RB, OG, TE, and CB...I think it's very much a possibility that Rex's time as a legit HC in this league has come and gone...Since the beginning of the 2011 season Rex is 32-46 as a HC...There are probably a million reasons why...But it is what it is...He's not getting the job done...Period...

 

So yes...I hope we get a President Of Football Operations, and I hope the first thing he does is can Rex...

 

But maybe that's just me...

More years of Rex Ryan...

 

Can we ask his clone, Hank Bullough, to coach a few more years too? Some of knew after one year of Jauron, one year of Gailey, one year of Marrone and this hire is even worse then those.