Can we at least agree on this? (Tyrod)

[birdog1960]

tyrod is just fine. coaching, special teams, the o line, a way overrated, loudmouth #1 receiver and mcgetrunover all suck. it's too much to overcome.

[Greybeard]

So I guess the problem is always what you aren't doing.

On sports forums, this is an accurate statement.

[Max997]

 

Then you clearly didn't watch the preseason or the season opener. That's all he did. And yet everyone was complaining about not getting the ball to Sammy. Now, it's deep shot central.

Need to find a healthy balance

Is your defense of Tyrod really what he did in the prereason and week 1?

 

My observation of why they can't get the balance is due to Tyrods inability to work the short and intermediate and over the middle passing game

 

Expecting to complete deep balls every third down is ludicrous

Edited December 14, 2015 by Max997

[John from Riverside]

Because it cant be backed up. Tyrod has hit some long balls. But when we go down 2 scores i watch thinking this game is over. Every time. I cant stand that feeling. There is nothing objectively that an refute the original post.

Except we have come back in games when down.....and it is usually on our QBs play cuz our D cant get turnoers.........

 

We might not have won those games....but it was not because of points scored.

[Max997]

You cannot have it both ways

 

When Tyrod runs to much people B word that he isnt staying in the pocket and throwing from there to prove he can and stay healthy......

 

when he throws deep he should be running more

 

In the end it all depends on whether it was successful or not.....the fact is this team had 15 plays for over 100 yards.......scored 20 points....and their supposidly great defense once again didnt live up to their billing.

 

There is too much talent on this D to be losing games when our team scores 20 god damn points.

What both ways?

 

QBs need to be able to complete the crucial 10-12 yard pass on 3rd and 8 but Tyrod seems to really struggle with that which is a big reason why this offense is so bad on third down

Edited December 14, 2015 by Max997

[John from Riverside]

Is your defense of Tyrod really what he did in the prereason and week 1?

 

My observation of why they can't get the balance is due to Tyrods inability to work the short and intermediate and over the middle passing game

 

Expecting to complete deep balls every third down is ludicrous

HE WAS COMPLETING MIDDLE PASSES

[Virgil]

Is your defense of Tyrod really what he did in the prereason and week 1?

 

My observation of why they can't get the balance is due to Tyrods inability to work the short and intermediate and over the middle passing game

 

Expecting to complete deep balls every third down is ludicrous

 

I'm not saying he won games, I'm saying he showed he was capable of making those throws. Which was your argument

[John from Riverside]

What both ways?

 

QBs need to be able to complete the crucial 10-12 yard pass on 3rd and 8 but Tyrod seems to really struggle with that which is a big reason why this offense is so bad on third down

So your going to give one for instance and use it as the norm.....which is bs

[Max997]

So a QB that ranks in the top 5 isn't good enough for you. So the answer is roll the dice on a college kid? Or sign a vet on the way down?

Because stats are everything right?

 

Do you think Tyrod is a top 5 QB?

 

If Tyrod is so good why is the offense so bad on third down which is where QBs are really judged?

 

I don't dislike Tyrod I just don't think he is the long term answer and as I said all of his faults were on display today

[Agent 91]

Ha ha, now we throw too far. I remember when the problem with our QBs was always they throw short. So I guess the problem is always what you aren't doing.

Maybe one that can do both? Maybe one who sees sammy beat a guy. On the opposite side of the field that he took off from. Some of the holds... were on tyrod. You cant keep freelanceing and expect no holds. Everyone knows that an o lineman doesnt know whats happening behind him so when the man he is blocking starts to change directions you will inevitably be caught in some precarious situations. We just need someone who plays with his head more.

[John from Riverside]

If it doesnt work.....it was the wrong way

Maybe one that can do both? Maybe one who sees sammy beat a guy. On the opposite side of the field that he took off from. Some of the holds... were on tyrod. You cant keep freelanceing and expect no holds. Everyone knows that an o lineman doesnt know whats happening behind him so when the man he is blocking starts to change directions you will inevitably be caught in some precarious situations. We just need someone who plays with his head more.

Im not understanding the freelancing....that TT stayed in the pocket pretty much in this game and took off when protection broke down

[Fixxxer]

I think he has progressed since his first game. Maybe he can further his development and get better and more comfortable in Roman's system. If they really like EJ keep him, if not target a new QB and bring him in.

 

Will he be a franchise QB? Time will tell, in the meantime he can help your team win games.

[Max997]

So your going to give one for instance and use it as the norm.....which is bs

I don't understand your point but I've given several examples of Tyrods faults so not sure what you are getting at here.

 

QBs are judged on third down where they typically hv to squeeze tight passes in small windows

 

More often than not Tyrod completely ignores the middle of the field most likely bc he can't see over the lineman

[John from Riverside]

Because stats are everything right?

 

Do you think Tyrod is a top 5 QB?

 

If Tyrod is so good why is the offense so bad on third down which is where QBs are really judged?

 

I don't dislike Tyrod I just don't think he is the long term answer and as I said all of his faults were on display today

You didnt answer Promo's question

 

What is your answer to the situation

[PromoTheRobot]

Because stats are everything right?

 

Do you think Tyrod is a top 5 QB?

 

If Tyrod is so good why is the offense so bad on third down which is where QBs are really judged?

 

I don't dislike Tyrod I just don't think he is the long term answer and as I said all of his faults were on display today

Let me turn this around? Are stats nothing? Is ranking high in several important categories meaningless?

 

Stats are useful to prevent what you are doing, letting your bias run wild.

Edited December 14, 2015 by PromoTheRobot

[John from Riverside]

I don't understand your point but I've given several examples of Tyrods faults so not sure what you are getting at here.

 

QBs are judged on third down where they typically hv to squeeze tight passes in small windows

 

More often than not Tyrod completely ignores the middle of the field most likely bc he can't see over the lineman

God....here is the cant see over the linemen theory

 

except its bull **** because he is totally throwing to the middle.......that pass to Clay (that he dropped was a absolute beauty last week)

[Buffalo Beeeews]

Come on, guys. We've had to worse around here within this 16 years of misery. Tyrod's got room for improvement, but he's far from the biggest problem on this particular group...

[chris heff]

"Why do we have a dead QB and a dead coach? I am so done with this team..."

Kim's cheap!

[WotAGuy]

More often than not Tyrod completely ignores the middle of the field most likely bc he can't see over the lineman

 

Aren't most QBs shorter than the typical O- and D- linemen? Isn't that why they have the term "passing lanes"?

[jumbalaya]

We need a QB who can lead a 4th quarter rally. That is not TT. We need a guy who can move around in the pocket and throw under pressure. That is not TT.

 

Maybe that is EJ. He looked good on his hand-off today.

[BillsFanForever19]

Tyrod is a middle of the road NFL QB right now. And a middle of the road NFL QB (in today's NFL) will get you to right about where they're going to end up. 8-8, 9-7; just short of the playoffs.

 

He's certainly the best option we have right now. But I hope they keep their eyes open this offseason.

[Buffalo Beeeews]

Tyrod doesn't miss tackles, or extra points, or commit a ridiculous number of boneheaded penalties.

 

I know we're all runnin pretty hot after this loss, but after the smoke clears and we gain some clear-headed perspective, any realistic Bills fan will see he's been a solid addition to this football team and with some work and experience, will only become a better quarterback for us.

[Agent 91]

Except we have come back in games when down.....and it is usually on our QBs play cuz our D cant get turnoers.........

 

We might not have won those games....but it was not because of points scored.

I put it like this... He is nothing without Sammy and Lesean. This is Leseans team. Our sucesses are predicated by the type of game he has. Sammy has the potential to be so much more.

[bigK14094]

All of Tyrods faults were on full display today. He is good at hitting the deep ball but take that away and he will struggle. He can't beat teams by picking them apart with short and intermediate passes especially to the middle of the field which is always evident on 3rd down.

Yes, I agree these comments. What bother me today, and I haven't noticed it before, is all the balls knocked down at the line of scrimage. TT is not that tall, and, I hate to say it, but it reminded me of Doug Flutie's troubles in the same manner. I think TT has trouble launching to nearer targets....as the linemen get in the line of throw. The long throws have more arc, and he can go over the top. imho

[moshermw]

All of Tyrods faults were on full display today. He is good at hitting the deep ball but take that away and he will struggle. He can't beat teams by picking them apart with short and intermediate passes especially to the middle of the field which is always evident on 3rd down.

No. All of the playcalling faults were on display today. For the life of me if you have a reasonable running QB that can throw OK on the run or run as a weapon, I DO NOT understand why one does not ROLL HIM OUT on all 3rd and passing situations. The Vikings lost Thursday precisely because of this. All you need to do is not get sack and/or maybe run for yards if it's not there.

 

Ironically our score is the same as Minn/AZ. Cept Vikes were the underdog and had it. If Teddy ROLED OUT, the strip doesn't happen and they kick to go to OT.

 

Bills win on these three plays - and eff that waiting for 20 for 20 BS thing:

 

First series - 3rd down after a nice 1st down series:

 

1. TT gets a rare sack on 3rd down - cuz they KNEW WERE HE'D BE. ROLL HIM OUT and he avoids it.

 

2. Key third down in 4th - 8 ish yds to go. TT forced it to Sammy - from the pocket. If one looks at the replay the entire middle of the field was open - if he was rolling, he was running and there's NO ONE THERE - TT is still running.

 

3. Game loser - forced it again - from the pocket. If he's rolling, he sees it it's not there and he runs for it - easily. So clear. Everyone who thinks TT needs to be more of a pocket passer so that he can be more like effing Brady should now own this loss and STFU.

 

We lost - just like the Vikings - because even tho we are the better team, there is some sort of failure to understand in certain situations, that a duel threat QB needs to actually running when the play starts. The pocket is NOT SAFER than a skilled running QB on the run. See Romo and Brady's worst injuries.

 

TT is the best dual threat QB in the NFL and is very accurate on the run. Why he's not moving on every third and throw down is beyond me and cost us this game, the second Patriots game and the KC game.

 

My friends and wife are tired of me yelling this - ROLL HIM OUT ... but they know it's true. that Bridgewater debacle is total proof. W.T.F

[metzelaars_lives]

It's a shame the D hasn't performed up to expectations. This would be a 8-5 or 9-4 team at WORST right now if they had...

End thread. Seriously.

[Boatdrinks]

While Tyrod may not be the reason they lost today, he needed to be the reason they won. Then he would take a big step toward being a franchise caliber guy. It will be hard to evaluate the rest of his season as the pressure is largely off. The Bills have only mathematical chances at a WC now.

[YoloinOhio]

For once I feel like the starting QB is not the problem. I do think they need depth at the position and a vet backup. I would draft a guy to replace EJ. I'd probably wait to sign TT long term until next year (yes I know it will cost more, I don't care). If it costs more, it means he got better and won a lot. He reminds me a lot of Russell Wilson in his first year.

If he regresses, there is another guy to keep developing if you draft one relatively high.

 

He's already playing better than a lot of the other QBs in the league, some have been doing this much longer. Give him some time with this offense, and build around him with a RT and big, red zone target #2 WR. Add depth and experience to the QB room in case he gets hurt and needs to miss any time.

Edited December 14, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[TakeYouToTasker]

John from Helmet and Promo the Robot are true believers.

 

It's not worth arguing about Tyrod's deficiencies, or ways he may harm the team, with them because they're incapable of being objective.

 

That said, Tyrod was who he always is today. He was simply an average version of himself.

Edited December 14, 2015 by TakeYouToTasker

[4merper4mer]

no

From the Talleywhacker lover who thinks Cam Newton will bust.

 

Who should we pick that will be available?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

So what better options are there? The Bills are not getting anywhere near a top five pick, probably not a top 10, so you're not getting anyone likely to be the next Manning. Even with the #1 pick still not much better than 50/50 that even he'd be the next Manning if you look at history of draft picks Can you get the next Rodgers with a lower pick, sure but I'm not so sure Rodgers would be anywhere near as good if he'd been asked to start from year #1, in that case you'd want to stick with TT a couple years anyway. The odds are much greater if you change QB's the next guy you get has a much better chance of being the next EJ or Ryan Leaf than Manning.

 

Not saying they shouldn't get a development guy, but until that guy starts out performing TT in practice and other situations, stick with TT

 

 

no

 

 

NO, no, no, no, no. 16 years and counting. No.

[BarleyNY]

Taylor is valuable. The Bills don't have their backs against the wall at QB next season because of him. He's better than serviceable and you can win with him. There's a chance he hasn't hit his ceiling so he might get better. That's the good. Then there's the bad. His style (he needs to run to be a successful QB) and size mean he is always going to be an injury risk. He doesn't read the field nearly as well as I'd like. And his accuracy is inconsistent. The good news is that he's under contract next season and we can see if he progresses before investing further. With the almost certain end of the EJ Manuel era coming fast there's also plenty of room for another young QB prospect - and maybe even a veteran - so the door is wide open for competition.

[Green Lightning]

I do. But - the Bills need to draft a QB this year to replace EJ as a developmental QB and also sign a vet backup QB.

+1

[BADOLBILZ]

This team desperately needs an Alshon Jeffery type who can win jump balls in the end zone.

 

We've been blessed to not see this team in the redzone much this year........the talent is designed to run and then hit big plays over the top....and thereby avoid having to execute in the redzone where things get much tougher.

 

Tyrod really needs that huge guy that can pull down the 50/50 balls.

 

Sammy has pulled down a few but he's not a fighter in traffic so in the redzone he really needs to be open.

 

The Bills getting outbid for Brandon Marshall was a game changer for both the Jets and the Bills IMO.

 

He would have really helped Tyrod a ton this year, IMO.

[Maury Ballstein]

John from Helmet and Promo the Robot are true believers.

 

It's not worth arguing about Tyrod's deficiencies, or ways he may harm the team, with them because they're incapable of being objective.

 

That said, Tyrod was who he always is today. He was simply an average version of himself.

He's good for 20ish points. If we hold everyone to 19 points we will win it all !!

[John from Riverside]

I put it like this... He is nothing without Sammy and Lesean. This is Leseans team. Our sucesses are predicated by the type of game he has. Sammy has the potential to be so much more.

And I will put it like this....with the exception of maybe 4 qbs in the league.....what you just said is true for EVERY qb

 

Every one

This team desperately needs an Alshon Jeffery type who can win jump balls in the end zone.

 

We've been blessed to not see this team in the redzone much this year........the talent is designed to run and then hit big plays over the top....and thereby avoid having to execute in the redzone where things get much tougher.

 

Tyrod really needs that huge guy that can pull down the 50/50 balls.

 

Sammy has pulled down a few but he's not a fighter in traffic so in the redzone he really needs to be open.

 

The Bills getting outbid for Brandon Marshall was a game changer for both the Jets and the Bills IMO.

 

He would have really helped Tyrod a ton this year, IMO.

Could not agree more....and I hope the bills address this in the offseason

[Agent 91]

And I will put it like this....with the exception of maybe 4 qbs in the league.....what you just said is true for EVERY qb

 

Every one

 

Could not agree more....and I hope the bills address this in the offseason

I cant disagree more. There are only 4 qbs in the league who can win a game where they are asked to be a qb... by this i mean throw the ball. He can not win a game when throwing 30 times? What crap is that. There are not 4 Lesean McCoys in this league. And i can't think of only 4 qbs who lock on to their unreal gifted WR. They all use multiple recievers. Spread the ball around, Scan the field, and carry his team. We have not beaten 1 quality opponent. Ill wait for you to refute that. Before you say the Jets, Tyrod threw for 158 and 1 TD sacked 4 times just so im not cherry pickng stats ran for 12 yds on 6 carries, Lesean McCoy ran for 112 had 47 rcv yards and, charles clay had 52 yds and karlos willams had the 26 yd td. We had 2 ints also.face it. TT is just another qb. Sure his bombs are pretty. But so what, he is a qb and should be expected to be able to throw a football. Why go through this. Of course im wrong though. Edited December 14, 2015 by Agent 91

[Herb Sewell]

I cant disagree more. There are only 4 qbs in the league who can win a game where they are asked to be a qb... by this i mean throw the ball

So your issue within TT is that he's not one of those 4 guys? OK, accident of birth, I suppose. He is still the best that the Bills have had in decades. And he hasn't competed a full season yet. He has to improve, but I doubt that he will be one of those top 4 guys ever. He was supposed to be a caretaker because the Bills had a "historically" (hysterically?) good defense and a running game that would carry the team. Neither has been there to support the team. Which is the real issue, truthfully.

 

So name the guy that will put this team on his shoulders and will them to the promised land. Describe how the Bills will magically acquire this messiah. And then tell us how the rest of the team won't blow it with penalties, turnovers and utter stupidity on a weekly basis.

[LA Grant]

This team desperately needs an Alshon Jeffery type who can win jump balls in the end zone.

 

We've been blessed to not see this team in the redzone much this year........the talent is designed to run and then hit big plays over the top....and thereby avoid having to execute in the redzone where things get much tougher.

 

Tyrod really needs that huge guy that can pull down the 50/50 balls.

 

Sammy has pulled down a few but he's not a fighter in traffic so in the redzone he really needs to be open.

 

The Bills getting outbid for Brandon Marshall was a game changer for both the Jets and the Bills IMO.

 

He would have really helped Tyrod a ton this year, IMO.

 

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes to this.

 

Clay being out today was a big factor as he's our ONLY threat over the middle. Robert Woods and Chris Hogan are both #3 receivers and none of our WRs have the combination of size and toughness to win the important battles consistently.

 

You put Tyrod with Decker & Marshall at WR and then try to say Fitz is the better QB. No way.

[Nihilarian]

Tyrod Taylor only has 10 NFL starts under his best so can everyone stop thinking this guy is going to carry the team on his shoulders like Orton did last year!

 

Tyrod really is a perfect "game manager" fit for this type of run first offense, and he doesn't throw many INT's, with 20 TD's & 4 INT's.

 

There are just so many holes on the team, and yes a big red zone target is one. That true #2 WR is such a big factor when you don't have one and opposing teams can roll all the coverage to the #1. Losing TE Charles Clay to injury was a big factor in this game because the had nobody to replace him with.

 

I don't know about the rest of you but to me that offensive line was exposed as bad against that Eagles front four. Glenn is a FA, Incognito is a FA. the best RT the team has was a waiver wire guy just off the street. The RG Miller is a very good run blocker, and a liability in pass blocking. The Bills would have been better off having Urbik in there at the end, and he isn't an asset in the run game.

 

 

 

Wanna talk let down then lets talk about the #4 defense falling into #20, and the #1 sacking team falling so very far to 30th. If Tyrod Taylor had as little pressure on him this season as the opposing QB's have had this team would win more games. If the Bills were fielding a top 5 defense this year they probably would have won at least three more games.

 

I agree with the OP that Taylor is not the primary concern right now, as he still needs more time to develop. Just look at Blake Bortles, and Derek Carr this year to see how much a rookie QB can improve in the second year.