major Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I'm usually not one to blame the refs; however, the past few weeks of NFL officiating has been atrocious. So many games have been decided by phantom calls, or just extreme ignorance. I may hate the pats, but I saw calls tonight against them that were fishy. Is the league hiring low level entry positions for refs or is there something else going on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Refs just flat out suck this year. All over. There is no accountability, unless you count not getting to officiate playoff/super-bowl as "accountability." I've never seen an announcement with a ref getting fined, suspended, etc. It's terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 there are definitely calls that are being made that are weak or frivolous that keep drives going when the offense should have punted. Have been seeing the same thing in college. Â I wouldn't be surprised if the refs are given "orders" to help certain teams win. Maybe it's from the League or Mafia or maybe both, who knows, but something isn't right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhDozeBills Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Yeah the refs suck. The rule book needs scaled down big time and it's ridiculous they don't have full time refs. But I don't want to hear about the refs in the Pats/Bronco game. Gronk clearly pushed off. I've seen way worse holding calls than the one in the end zone that negated a sack and led to a TD. And the clock run off was after the Bronco injury was correct according to the rules. It's amazing that one game the Pats don't get all calls go there way that it's even a discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I suspect it's less about crummy refs and more about crummy rule implementation from the league. If the league decided they'd rather see on the side of letting players play rather than on the side of flagging unnecessary roughness, PI, etc. then that's what you'd see. Â At the same time, there is the occasional call (like the phantom PI on Robey in London) where I think about that NBA ref who got caught years ago shaving points and I wonder if there aren't some guys on the take. I don't think there's any league wide conspiracy, but I don't think it would be the craziest thing if we found out that some big sports-betting operations had a couple of refs on the payroll. There's a lot of money in it, and a phantom call at the right time can swing a lot of money one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felonious Monk Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) When NFL players screw up repeatedly, they are cut. When NFL officials screw up repeatedly, they are "reassigned." Â Expect garbage officiating until the latter changes. Edited November 30, 2015 by Felonious Monk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I'm usually not one to blame the refs; however, the past few weeks of NFL officiating has been atrocious. So many games have been decided by phantom calls, or just extreme ignorance. I may hate the pats, but I saw calls tonight against them that were fishy. Is the league hiring low level entry positions for refs or is there something else going on here? A friend said he saw the Fox pre-game show and they talked to one of the head officials about the bad calls. He said there are 17 new officials this season. He also admitted that there have been a lot of incorrect calls on the field. They replaced the older referees to save money. These new guys don't have to have a specific amount of experience. Â Kind of makes sense now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan714 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 The refs are llike baseball years ago. The phantom step on 2nd base on a double play, the strike zone gradually moved lower and outside to where it became a joke. The catch rule has never been the same since Megatron got robbed on that EZ touchdown. Im over 50, and can easily say I like what was called a catch when i was younger. Now nobody can really explain it to you where it makes sense. And you cant have different rules for different players. This QB will get the roughing call this QB wont, this DB with get the PI while another with a better rep wont. With only 16 games some of these calls can be season altering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Dog Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 The refs are horrible, what an embarrassment for the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Goodell's payback for defeat at deflategate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 The NFL should fire 25% of these officials per year. Holding officials accountable for ****ty results would fix the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsintaiwan Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Â When NFL players screw up repeatedly, they are cut. When NFL officials screw up repeatedly, they are "reassigned." Â Like priests, only even less accountable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 A friend said he saw the Fox pre-game show and they talked to one of the head officials about the bad calls. He said there are 17 new officials this season. He also admitted that there have been a lot of incorrect calls on the field. They replaced the older referees to save money. These new guys don't have to have a specific amount of experience. Â Kind of makes sense now. Â Save money?!?!?!?! this is a billion dollar industry and there worried about a few bucks!!!!! The greed of this league is astounding. Â They seriously need to be full time professionals, just like everybody else involved in football. Refs should go on strike until they are made full time (besides it was fun watching the replacements actually let the guys play unlike this over-officiated crap we have today) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 It would be interesting if someone would look at the spread on games and see if certain crews just happen t work games that miss the spread or make the spread and than look at calls that might have changed the spread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 A friend said he saw the Fox pre-game show and they talked to one of the head officials about the bad calls. He said there are 17 new officials this season. He also admitted that there have been a lot of incorrect calls on the field. They replaced the older referees to save money. These new guys don't have to have a specific amount of experience. Â Kind of makes sense now. So....back to the scabs of 2 years ago? Huh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 So....back to the scabs of 2 years ago? Huh! I would take my chances with those guys over what the league has turned into now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko12010 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 The refs are llike baseball years ago. The phantom step on 2nd base on a double play, the strike zone gradually moved lower and outside to where it became a joke. The catch rule has never been the same since Megatron got robbed on that EZ touchdown. Im over 50, and can easily say I like what was called a catch when i was younger. Now nobody can really explain it to you where it makes sense. And you cant have different rules for different players. This QB will get the roughing call this QB wont, this DB with get the PI while another with a better rep wont. With only 16 games some of these calls can be season altering. Pretty much now like the NBA with rules, which is a horrible thing imo, because the NBA became unwatchable for me a while ago. I would take my chances with those guys over what the league has turned into now The scabs made the big blunder in the SEA/GB game, but other than that they were absolutely no worse than the regular refs. The reason many were angry was because the calls were actually evenly distributed--the reputation calls for high profile players and teams weren't happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 A friend said he saw the Fox pre-game show and they talked to one of the head officials about the bad calls. He said there are 17 new officials this season. He also admitted that there have been a lot of incorrect calls on the field. They replaced the older referees to save money. These new guys don't have to have a specific amount of experience. Â Kind of makes sense now. The NFL replaced good refs to save money? I seriously doubt that. Â This league has hundreds of millions to burn, a bumbling commish, a bunch of off the field felons, players appealing to federal courts, and now you're saying they thought it would make sense to hire cheaper refs. Â No. Â They did stink up the Bills and Pats games yesterday, thats for sure. I can see missing the Maclin ground ball call, but the Hogan thing was unreal. Like not even remotely close. Â The Chung holding call in the endzone on the Branch sack cost the Pats the game. Very mild holding at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 When NFL players screw up repeatedly, they are cut. When NFL officials screw up repeatedly, they are "reassigned." Â Expect garbage officiating until the latter changes. So how do you create a massive pipeline of eager and qualified refs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 They should scrap the taunting penalty, and change the "receiver must become a runner" when the ball is caught in the end zone for a catch to be a "catch". Those are ticky tacky bs penalties. Offensive holding should be 5 yards not 10. And if the offense fumbles the ball out of the end zone, they should get the ball back at the 20 - unless it happened on 4th down. In that case the ball would go over to the other team - but at the 5 yard line - not the 20. [#nanker4nflcommish] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felonious Monk Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 So how do you create a massive pipeline of eager and qualified refs? Â Most of these guys have full-time jobs. Make this their full-time job. Pay them accordingly. Have them train 10 months out of the year. The money is there, and the NFL stands to lose way more if the refs continue deciding games with bad calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Are you saying it's correct because you've read the rule book or because someone who likely knows about as much as the announcers told them it was correct per the rules. I'll wait until around mid week when the NFL issues there weekly "mistakes report" until we know it truly was the correct call. Â Â And the clock run off was after the Bronco injury was correct according to the rules. Â Â Everything I've always read the refs don't want to be full time as most don't want to give up their full time jobs. That's the argument the league has made as to why they aren't full time now, if they did that too many of their experienced officials would quit. I'm in favor of full time officials BTW, but this is the argument I've often heard against it. Â Â As was pointed out last week the guy who was the official for the Bill's Monday night game Gene Salitare or something like that, was on TV the week prior officiating an NCAA college basketballl game. Â Â Refs should go on strike until they are made full time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) I would scale back the rule book, starting with changing to some of the college rules...15 yards PI, the "catch" rule, 1 foot in bounds, and some other. Then get the refs trained on the new simplified rule book. Â Oh and the challenge system is better in the college game. Edited November 30, 2015 by The Thurmanator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I would scale back the rule book, starting with changing to some of the college rules...15 yards PI, the "catch" rule, 1 foot in bounds, and some other. Then get the refs trained on the new simplified rule book. Â Oh and the challenge system is better in the college game. Â I agree with NoSaint. Trim the fat from the rule book. Â The argument for "full time refs" has been poorly made here over and over. Full time refs in other sports are not full time in any real sense of the term. and their performance is no better as a whole than in the NFL. Â Maybe the mods can pin one giant "the refs suck" thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 The refs this year are indeed a joke, but I can't help but feel some schadenfreude over the Pats' whining. I mean, honestly, how long has their OL been getting away with holding that is so blatant that it borders on mugging? And how many Super Bowl rings do they have as a direct result of shady officiating? Bad calls can go against them for the next DECADE and still not even out all they've gotten in their favor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Yeah the refs suck. The rule book needs scaled down big time and it's ridiculous they don't have full time refs. But I don't want to hear about the refs in the Pats/Bronco game. Gronk clearly pushed off. I've seen way worse holding calls than the one in the end zone that negated a sack and led to a TD. And the clock run off was after the Bronco injury was correct according to the rules. It's amazing that one game the Pats don't get all calls go there way that it's even a discussion. Â My only problem was you announced to the stadium that it was a 4th "timeout". NE would have called timeout had they known that the clock was running. Â It's not that hard to tell everyone - hey the clock starts when we put the ball down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) Â I agree with NoSaint. Trim the fat from the rule book. Â The argument for "full time refs" has been poorly made here over and over. Full time refs in other sports are not full time in any real sense of the term. and their performance is no better as a whole than in the NFL. Â Maybe the mods can pin one giant "the refs suck" thread? I am getting close to swearing off the NFL. The Bills are the only thing holding me right now. I know I'm sick. Â The college game has passed the NFL in my mind now. Mainly because they have the playoff, but also because I like the rules better. And, they have room for growth when they go to an 8/16 team playoff. Â Another rule they have in college is the expulsion from the game for targeting and replay of it. Much safer. Edited November 30, 2015 by The Thurmanator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Â Â When NFL players screw up repeatedly, they are cut. When NFL officials screw up repeatedly, they are "reassigned." Â Like priests, only even less accountable Oh no you didn't! 👍 Â My only problem was you announced to the stadium that it was a 4th "timeout". NE would have called timeout had they known that the clock was running. Â It's not that hard to tell everyone - hey the clock starts when we put the ball down. The Pats are the smartest team out there. Rememeber the funky formations that were "legal" last season vs. the Ravens? The arrogant Pats of all teams should have known the situaition. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) My thoughts on improving refs: Â 1 - Reviews in the booth. They're soooo much faster. You can have a team at HQ doing them if you want that way you get multiple opinions, and can radio them into the refs. Â 2 - Refs in the booth. Whenever there's a conference on a "what just happened on that play? whats the call?" You have another person who was able to view the entire field able to drop in their opinion. And has access to the rule book to actually make the correct call. Â 3 - Figure out what a catch is! 2 feet? football move? what happens when it's in the end zone? Â 4 - Remove automatic firsts for anything that isn't a personal foul. PI should be a max 15 yards. Â 5 - Figure out some of the clock issues. There seems to be an issue with a game every week regarding the clock. The 2 minute warning is terrible, and used solely to generate commercial time. Edited November 30, 2015 by dneveu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 They should do a review the day after each game and look at all the called penalties and ones that should have been called and then issue a grade to the ref crew.   And then you need to maintain a certain grade in order to continue being a ref  #wishfulthinking  CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Goodell's payback for defeat at deflategate I wouldn't be surprised if that's true. The calls last night late in the game were pretty baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortlandiaEast Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I used to think the refs were motivated to screw one team over another which leads to the horrible calls and non-calls. But it changes so often, I am starting to think they just have no clue out there. Running around wetting themselves whenever they need to make an important judgement call. Its embarrasing for them and the NFL. Â Honest question: I keep seeing that Dean Blandino is the VP of Officiating. Is there a president of officiating, or is he the highest on the totem pole before goodell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 The refs this year are indeed a joke, but I can't help but feel some schadenfreude over the Pats' whining. I mean, honestly, how long has their OL been getting away with holding that is so blatant that it borders on mugging? And how many Super Bowl rings do they have as a direct result of shady officiating? Bad calls can go against them for the next DECADE and still not even out all they've gotten in their favor! what is really funny is Pats fans declaring early the "this league is a joke, i aint watching after Brady is gone" . They know whats coming, just calling their shot early so they wont be called bandwagon fans  BTW, think i heard a suggestion last week that each crew should have a manager...one full time guy that oversees a crew of like 9 officials. 7 dress each game, game get graded and best ones suit up the next week. If you are not suited up, you no get paid.  Also that guy would control the reviews and make the calls on reversals etc. I like all that, but just make it like coillege system be even better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I'm seeing a lot of bad spotting by officials. On some plays they give or short a team as much as two yards. Alex Smith 1st down run was actually 2 yards short of the marker. (Another blown non-call by Rex.) But the official is almost 3 yards ahead on the sideline. Are these guys fixing games? Helping their favorite teams? Are they cross-eyed? Something is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I'm seeing a lot of bad spotting by officials. On some plays they give or short a team as much as two yards. Alex Smith 1st down run was actually 2 yards short of the marker. (Another blown non-call by Rex.) But the official is almost 3 yards ahead on the sideline. Are these guys fixing games? Helping their favorite teams? Are they cross-eyed? Something is up. It wasn't 2 yards short, and not even a yard short. But it was likely short. The problem is that challenging spots just about always fails if it's not close to the clear five yard intervals. I don't think he would have won that one anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 what is really funny is Pats fans declaring early the "this league is a joke, i aint watching after Brady is gone" . They know whats coming, just calling their shot early so they wont be called bandwagon fans  BTW, think i heard a suggestion last week that each crew should have a manager...one full time guy that oversees a crew of like 9 officials. 7 dress each game, game get graded and best ones suit up the next week. If you are not suited up, you no get paid.  Also that guy would control the reviews and make the calls on reversals etc. I like all that, but just make it like coillege system be even better  I was almost tempted to register on their forum to post, "Just give it to them!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) It wasn't 2 yards short, and not even a yard short. But it was likely short. The problem is that challenging spots just about always fails if it's not close to the clear five yard intervals. I don't think he would have won that one anyway. https://twitter.com/bigpun_tru_ikon/status/671163561872371712 Â Definitely 1 yard short. How the hell is that a first down?? Edited November 30, 2015 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 My thoughts on improving refs: Â 1 - Reviews in the booth. They're soooo much faster. You can have a team at HQ doing them if you want that way you get multiple opinions, and can radio them into the refs. Â 2 - Refs in the booth. Whenever there's a conference on a "what just happened on that play? whats the call?" You have another person who was able to view the entire field able to drop in their opinion. And has access to the rule book to actually make the correct call. Â 3 - Figure out what a catch is! 2 feet? football move? what happens when it's in the end zone? Â 4 - Remove automatic firsts for anything that isn't a personal foul. PI should be a max 15 yards. Â 5 - Figure out some of the clock issues. There seems to be an issue with a game every week regarding the clock. The 2 minute warning is terrible, and used solely to generate commercial time. Also, get rid of the 1/2 the distance penalty and allow the full penalty yardage, or place the ball on the 1 yd line if yardage penalty amount exceeds available distance remaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Â https://twitter.com/bigpun_tru_ikon/status/671163561872371712 Â Definitely 1 yard short. How the hell is that a first down?? Â A yard to slightly less than a yard short (the yellow line is beyond the stick). But yeah, that could have been challenged. It was less close than I remembered. They kicked a FG on that drive, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan in MD Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 My thoughts on improving refs: Â 1 - Reviews in the booth. They're soooo much faster. You can have a team at HQ doing them if you want that way you get multiple opinions, and can radio them into the refs. Â 2 - Refs in the booth. Whenever there's a conference on a "what just happened on that play? whats the call?" You have another person who was able to view the entire field able to drop in their opinion. And has access to the rule book to actually make the correct call. Â 3 - Figure out what a catch is! 2 feet? football move? what happens when it's in the end zone? Â 4 - Remove automatic firsts for anything that isn't a personal foul. PI should be a max 15 yards. Â 5 - Figure out some of the clock issues. There seems to be an issue with a game every week regarding the clock. The 2 minute warning is terrible, and used solely to generate commercial time. Â I think it all goes well beyond a few technical fixes. Everything the NFL does, particularly during the Goodell era, seems second-rate and reactive. I know that a lot of the issues -- from part-time refs to head injuries to off-field issues -- pre-date his time as Commissioner, but there seems to be no ability right now to look ahead at anything that doesn't relate to television deals and sponsorship revenues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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