Rob's House Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I think my response was above your head. I think that your "nuanced" response is guilty of the same logical fallacy that you are accusing other people of. Perhaps you're too blind to see that. What logical fallacy is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) While I'm really hoping Rex made an impression on Monday night and we get a first round pick for free, I agree with this. They wanted to be moved into the supplemental draft before last Thursday. He wasn't drafted. Police have said he wasn't involved. Roger should snap out of heartless robot mode and understand this is a rare circumstance and help him get his career back on track.i know it probably means the Bills would not get him but just seems like common sense and the right thing to do. How do josh Gordon and Pryor get to go in the supp draft but not this kid? Supplemental draft was designed for players who experienced hardships and dealt with unprecedented circumstances. Edited May 7, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015  Rotoworld is reporting Collins wants to play tackle, which would make the fish longshots....  http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/10371/lael-Collins  Thoughts on him playing tackle for Bills? They were already experimenting with sliding Glenn inside - not sure I understood or agreed with that one, but could Henderson slide into a guard spot?   I gotta think it would be Glenn sliding inside whereupon he would immediately be great. He played G in college and was very good there. I think he could become an All Pro at the position. I don't think he'll like the idea of getting paid at less than a LT, but, I'm thinking Pegula bucks just may satisfy him.  GO BILLS!!!  They'll move Harris to Guard.  This is what makes this interesting. No one can tell this guy he's guaranteed a job. He needs to determine where he has the best shot to start among other things.  All Rex had to tell him was we had the worst oline in football last year. We added a guy out of football for a year and drafted a Guard at 80. You figure it out L'ael. He can't really go further then that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 What logical fallacy is that? The parody fallacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 No known motive now Passed a lie detector Proven not in the city Publicly not a suspect Met with police and answered every question  And we still had someone saying they suspect him more after the paternity test. It's amazing how some latch onto a narrative once the media nudges towards it The paternity test doesn't rule out motive since Collins didn't know the results before the murder happened. And people can lie and still pass a polygraph test. What helps him the most right now is proof that he wasn't in the city that night. The next step is finding the killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 The parody fallacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 i know it probably means the Bills would not get him but just seems like common sense and the right thing to do. How do josh Gordon and Pryor get to go in the supp draft but not this kid? Supplemental draft was designed for players who experienced hardships and dealt with unprecedented circumstances.Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Brett Buffington just woke up apparently. He really gives off a Panda Watch vibe. Â @BrettBuffington: #BREAKING @BRPD confirms the #laelcollins submitted to a paternity test. Edited May 7, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 The paternity test doesn't rule out motive since Collins didn't know the results before the murder happened. And people can lie and still pass a polygraph test. What helps him the most right now is proof that he wasn't in the city that night. The next step is finding the killer. Still no known motive. We could argue she might've cut him off in traffic and it's a road rage incident possibly if we really want to keep options open but other than police wanting to chat with the fellow we have nothing that would point to him, and by itself that doesn't either. It's easy to construct stories but we just don't have anything factual that points at him yet was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I really hope that he and Rex made a connection over dinner. Because now that his name is getting more and more clear - it's becoming obvious he'll be able to go to any team in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Still no known motive. We could argue she might've cut him off in traffic and it's a road rage incident possibly if we really want to keep options open but other than police wanting to chat with the fellow we have nothing that would point to him, and by itself that doesn't either. It's easy to construct stories but we just don't have anything factual that points at him yet was my point. No, the motive could still be argued to be that he was trying to get rid of a baby and/or baby momma. Again he didn't know whether it was his prior to the murder. The negative paternity test just says that the child isn't his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchmurraydowntown Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 No, the motive could still be argued to be that he was trying to get rid of a baby and/or baby momma. Again he didn't know whether it was his prior to the murder. The negative paternity test just says that the child isn't his. Â Wow, is this a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Wow, is this a stretch. No stretch at all. Unless Collins is psychic, there was no way for him to know for sure whether he was the father or not. Hence the potential motive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Wow, is this a stretch. No. When did he get the Paternity test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) No, the motive could still be argued to be that he was trying to get rid of a baby and/or baby momma. Again he didn't know whether it was his prior to the murder. The negative paternity test just says that the child isn't his. Yea, but even before he claimed confidently not to be the father so what is driving that suspicion for you beyond it could make an interesting story? Really that encapsulates my whole point here. It's easy to write narratives but we don't have anything factual to base them on. There's literally no publicly available piece of evidence to suggest he had anything to do with it. But a lot of accusatory tweets that I think predisposed people to the idea he should be strongly suspected. Edited May 7, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Yea, but even before he claimed confidently not to be the father so what is driving that suspicion for you beyond it could make an interesting story? Really that encapsulates my whole point here. It's easy to write narratives but we don't have anything factual to base them on. I'm not saying I'm suspicious, just that you can't say that not being the father means there is no motive, his confidence notwithstanding. Had the paternity test been done before the murder, yes, then you can say there was no motive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 They hadn't talked since September. You think out of the blue, 8months later he suddenly snapped over a fling being close to giving birth? I don't think that, but I'm sure the cops do. Haven't you ever watched Dateline? Â And if this was such a non-issue (he briefly dated some girl), what's with him trying to pull out of the draft? Seems to me that move gave this story a life of its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I don't think that, but I'm sure the cops do. Haven't you ever watched Dateline? Â And if this was such a non-issue (he briefly dated some girl), what's with him trying to pull out of the draft? Seems to me that move gave this story a life of its own. He was pulling out of the draft because he was a top 15 pick that was going to tumble until this got straightened out. It was a really expensive fall that he was trying to prevent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I thought I read that he hadn't seen her since september? If that's true...which is more possible now that we know he's not the father he would have almost no reason to kill her since he knows there is no way he has a child on the way. Obviously very possible he has seen her since but if you watch law and order the guy always says he hasn't seen her in a while and then BAM he's the baby daddy! It sounds like the police don't have much to go on here and there will be a dark cloud over this kid's head until the murderer gets nabbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) flip your guards, I don't want 2 rookies on the same side I agree. Which side did miller play in college? EDIT: just read he started 40 something games at LG but alternated later on Edited May 7, 2015 by kr632 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Yea, but even before he claimed confidently not to be the father so what is driving that suspicion for you beyond it could make an interesting story? Really that encapsulates my whole point here. It's easy to write narratives but we don't have anything factual to base them on. There's literally no publicly available piece of evidence to suggest he had anything to do with it. But a lot of accusatory tweets that I think predisposed people to the idea he should be strongly suspected. I agree with what your overall point. As to the bolded, every father on Maury Povich knows with 100% certainty that they're not the father. Then comes either devastation or break dancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) I agree with what your overall point. As to the bolded, every father on Maury Povich knows with 100% certainty that they're not the father. Then comes either devastation or break dancing.Yea but speaking out when he could've quietly waited- i would suspect his attorney would've advised against those public assertions if he wasn't pretty confident. It would be a very immediate breach of trust with both the public and investigators. Could be a bluff that happened to work out, but..... Â seriousness aside, now he gets to break dance in club in Miami while teams court him. Edited May 7, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I thought I read that he hadn't seen her since september? If that's true...which is more possible now that we know he's not the father he would have almost no reason to kill her since he knows there is no way he has a child on the way. Obviously very possible he has seen her since but if you watch law and order the guy always says he hasn't seen her in a while and then BAM he's the baby daddy! It sounds like the police don't have much to go on here and there will be a dark cloud over this kid's head until the murderer gets nabbed. From September to the murder was ~7 months. He could have been the father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) From September to the murder was ~7 months. He could have been the father. Not speaking to her since September doesn't mean they had a sex in September - possibly the reason he was saying confidently in public he was not the father is they weren't hooking up in the last 8-9 months. Edited May 7, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Not speaking to her since September doesn't mean they had a sex in September - possibly the reason he was saying confidently in public he was not the father is they weren't hooking up in the last 8-9 months. True, but that's his assertion. Did they say how old the baby appeared to be post-conceptual age-wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Good in-depth update: Â http://theadvocate.com/sports/lsu/12303884-123/source-former-lsu-ol-lael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) That's not really much of a rebuttal.  Here's the full quote: "Ability without character will lose. The Bills are going to be a team of high character. That stamp I will push very hard. I hope we can convey that to our fans and project something very special to the rest of the nation."  Also, here's a link to a program and educational brief from a Marv Levy lecture.  Heart of a Hall of Famer Series: Marv Levy - Extreme Networks  Notice the items listed under the learning objectives section. These are what I think Marv meant by character. It sounds to me like he wanted to build a team of players that the community and the nation can be proud of. I'm not sure how proud you can be of wife beaters, bullies and murderers.  If you think you know something different the say what you think it means and back it up with some researcph. Otherwise, your argument is basically worthless. I didn't offer the question as a rebutal. And your own rebuttal, detailed as it was, isn't close to what he meant by character as it pertains to a football team. GO BILLS!!! Edited May 7, 2015 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flmike Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Isn't Todd Collins a bit old by now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 On his way to meet with Dallas  @JasonLaCanfora: The courting of La'el Collins is well underway, and he's on his way to his first visit now: http://t.co/9WVcxqWNL6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchmurraydowntown Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Whoever gets this guy may realize that he's a great player but not a great human being, not saying he's not but his choices in dating makes Winston look a little better, if that's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 detailed as it was, isn't close to what he meant by character as it pertains to a football team.   Agreed. Here's how Marv put it in his own words...  http://buffalorising.com/2012/06/marv-levy-tells-us-how-he-motivate-the-buffalo-bills/  "How did we select motivated players? We tried to select only intensely motivated players. The game plan for success was simple, but it wasn’t easy. If you can run, throw, block, tackle, catch and kick better than your opponent, you will win. This requires good PR. Not public relations. But preparation and resilience. It is not about the will to win, but the will to prepare."   http://cjonline.com/stories/080401/spo_halloffame.shtml#.VUrfLpI4nTY  "It takes tremendous qualities of character to get so disappointed, to get so knocked down, and then to pick yourself up and then go through all the hard work and dedication it takes to get back there," he said. "It was a very resilient group, guys who stuck together." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Agreed. Here's how Marv put it in his own words... Â http://buffalorising.com/2012/06/marv-levy-tells-us-how-he-motivate-the-buffalo-bills/ Â "How did we select motivated players? We tried to select only intensely motivated players. The game plan for success was simple, but it wasnt easy. If you can run, throw, block, tackle, catch and kick better than your opponent, you will win. This requires good PR. Not public relations. But preparation and resilience. It is not about the will to win, but the will to prepare." Â Â http://cjonline.com/stories/080401/spo_halloffame.shtml#.VUrfLpI4nTY Â "It takes tremendous qualities of character to get so disappointed, to get so knocked down, and then to pick yourself up and then go through all the hard work and dedication it takes to get back there," he said. "It was a very resilient group, guys who stuck together." Excellent example (as are k9s dozens on the topic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchmurraydowntown Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Excellent example (as are k9s dozens on the topic) LOL, wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTO Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 From September to the murder was ~7 months. He could have been the father. Â Damn, you really are a doctor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I think it had to do with the message his agent put out that if he was drafted outside the first round he wouldn't sign and would reenter the draft next year. Also, if drafted you can only renegotiate contract after 3 years, undrafted is 2 years. Â Â Â Think the teams weren't aware of what he would do till his agent told them? Â Heck, I was aware of what he'd do if drafted late, and I'm no Brainiac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 @ProFootballTalk: Report: La'El Collins in Dallas to visit Cowboys http://t.co/eQOLE75RcB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 He was pulling out of the draft because he was a top 15 pick that was going to tumble until this got straightened out. It was a really expensive fall that he was trying to prevent. By trying to prevent it, he ensured it though. I just can't follow his logic. He must've received horrible advice from someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 By trying to prevent it, he ensured it though. I just can't follow his logic. He must've received horrible advice from someone.Well his agent saying he wouldn't play if he was drafted after day 2 hurt the amount of money he would be making for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 No stretch at all. Unless Collins is psychic, there was no way for him to know for sure whether he was the father or not. Hence the potential motive.Except that It is evidence that Collins did not have sex with her during the critical timeframe and/or that she was having sex with another during that time. If Collins was telling the cops that it could not have been his kid for one or both of those reasons (or for some other reason) then this fact would strongly support that narrative. And of course it means that there is someone else out there with a stronger motive than Collins to have done the deed. It is almost certainly good news for Collins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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