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Russell Wilson and the Seahawks negotiations (update:signed)

YoloinOhio

By YoloinOhio
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ddaryl Veteran

ddaryl

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I just once want a young elite QB go "nah I will just see what I get on the market." Then the Bills scoop them up of course...

 

 

they would be franchised and traded before they hit the market

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ko12010 RFA

ko12010

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it is interesting that they basically followed the same model we are trying to follow

 

- Cheap QB contract

- Money went into everything else AROUND the QB

It's just hard for it not to blow up when the QB performs as hoped and then is finishing that cheap rookie contract.

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CountDorkula Veteran

CountDorkula

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Paul Allen's salary cap = Pegs...

 

They have a chit ton of cap space next year. $111MM used for 2016 currently without restructures on what will be probably a $160MM cap. They will be fine. He will sign for about $20-25MM per.

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Jauronimo Hall of Famer

Jauronimo

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Russel Wilson is going to get paid like Rodgers, Brady, Manning and I don't think he's even remotely in the same class. Part of the Squawks success has been their ability to build a dominant defense and incredible running game since they weren't burdened with the type of salary an elite QB commands. I think backing up the truck for Wilson will be the beginning of their descent back to the middle of the pack as less resources are available to sustain that D.

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ko12010 RFA

ko12010

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Russel Wilson is going to get paid like Rodgers, Brady, Manning and I don't think he's even remotely in the same class. Part of the Squawks success has been their ability to build a dominant defense and incredible running game since they weren't burdened with the type of salary an elite QB commands. I think backing up the truck for Wilson will be the beginning of their descent back to the middle of the pack as less resources are available to sustain that D.

Seems the Hawks believe similarly. They want to pay him "like a more highly skilled version of Andy Dalton."

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bigK14094 Veteran

bigK14094

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Paul Allen's bank account is 100 times bigger than Pegs.

But it does not matter because the cap only allows you to spend so much

this is interesting speculation...depends how assets are valued. I don't have a lookup source on this debate. I can tell you....that outside of the sports franchaises, that Pegs is worth well into 10 figures. (thats billions , folks) Allen, of course, also is in that league. The problem with the asset valuation game is that Pegs holds a lot of acerage in oil and gas leases...and that is tough to value. Allen , of course, is more diversified....and was the co founder of Microsoft......who knows his worth...but. perhaps look it up in the annual forbes publication on the topic.

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YoloinOhio Hall of Famer

YoloinOhio

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They will end up paying him, it will hamstring them going forward, and they won't win another SB imo. But they did it the way teams need to these days with QB contracts - they drafted a QB capable of winning a SB during his rookie deal. Andrew Luck, you are up.

Edited by YoloinOhio
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Deranged Rhino Hall of Famer

Deranged Rhino

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Paul Allen's bank account is 100 times bigger than Pegs.

 

 

 

Paul Allen's net worth is about 5 times that of the Pegulas

 

:o They aren't kidding when they say the economy is in turmoil. In five minutes Paul Allen went from 100x richer than Pegula to only 5x richer!

BTW, what happened to the hawks offering Russell Wilson a fully guaranteed contract? Wasn't there a lot of chatter about that immediately following the Super Bowl?

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billsfan89 All Pro

billsfan89

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Russel Wilson is going to get paid like Rodgers, Brady, Manning and I don't think he's even remotely in the same class. Part of the Squawks success has been their ability to build a dominant defense and incredible running game since they weren't burdened with the type of salary an elite QB commands. I think backing up the truck for Wilson will be the beginning of their descent back to the middle of the pack as less resources are available to sustain that D.

 

Pretty much, the Seahawks success came from Wilson managing the games for 3 quarters allowing the great defense and ground attack to do most of the work and sprinkling in a few decent plays with his arm. Wilson also was a very clutch player in the 4th quarter which helped them win games.

 

But Wilson was very mediocre at times esp early in games. He isn't a dynamic QB but rather a above average QB with a great team around him. However if you pay him a cap number close to 20 million then you are going to severely limit how good the team can be around him. It's going to be similar to how the Raven's were with Flacco, going from championship contention to a little above the middle of the pack, having to let go of good players or being unable to retain certain players due to cap concerns caused by having such a huge contract on the books.

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John from Riverside Hall of Famer

John from Riverside

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:o They aren't kidding when they say the economy is in turmoil. In five minutes Paul Allen went from 100x richer than Pegula to only 5x richer!

BTW, what happened to the hawks offering Russell Wilson a fully guaranteed contract? Wasn't there a lot of chatter about that immediately following the Super Bowl?

I know right......inflation jesus

 

Pretty much, the Seahawks success came from Wilson managing the games for 3 quarters allowing the great defense and ground attack to do most of the work and sprinkling in a few decent plays with his arm. Wilson also was a very clutch player in the 4th quarter which helped them win games.

 

But Wilson was very mediocre at times esp early in games. He isn't a dynamic QB but rather a above average QB with a great team around him. However if you pay him a cap number close to 20 million then you are going to severely limit how good the team can be around him. It's going to be similar to how the Raven's were with Flacco, going from championship contention to a little above the middle of the pack, having to let go of good players or being unable to retain certain players due to cap concerns caused by having such a huge contract on the books.

What is interesting is this is exactly the model that the bills are trying to emulate......yet there are fans that dont want it.

 

It was successful for the hawks.

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Chuck Wagon Veteran

Chuck Wagon

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Russel Wilson is going to get paid like Rodgers, Brady, Manning and I don't think he's even remotely in the same class. Part of the Squawks success has been their ability to build a dominant defense and incredible running game since they weren't burdened with the type of salary an elite QB commands. I think backing up the truck for Wilson will be the beginning of their descent back to the middle of the pack as less resources are available to sustain that D.

 

 

The running game/defense wasn't making those throws down the field that beat the Packers in OT. Given his targets are a bunch of 6'0" guys who weren't drafted, I'd say Wilson is doing pretty well.

 

I think it this a pretty outdated take on Wilson. The dude is extremely smart on the field, he almost always makes the right decision (except for 1 throw in the Super Bowl), if you give him 5 yards, he'll take 5 yards instead of trying to turn it into 20. By most any advanced metric he's the best runner as a QB in the league and he avoids the kill shots Cam takes head on. He throws a very nice deep ball, ranking very high in deep ball % and is a killer on 3rd down.

 

 

If Taylor (or EJ) were to give us 80% of Wilson this year, we'd cruise to the division championship.

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Doc Hall of Famer

Doc

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Russel Wilson is going to get paid like Rodgers, Brady, Manning and I don't think he's even remotely in the same class. Part of the Squawks success has been their ability to build a dominant defense and incredible running game since they weren't burdened with the type of salary an elite QB commands. I think backing up the truck for Wilson will be the beginning of their descent back to the middle of the pack as less resources are available to sustain that D.

 

Seems the Hawks believe similarly. They want to pay him "like a more highly skilled version of Andy Dalton."

These. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

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ddaryl Veteran

ddaryl

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Hes a solid QB but he is not in the same category and Aaron Rogers, Brees, Peyton Manning, and the Grand Cheater Tom Brady.

 

He is the product of the great defense, He deserves a fat raise but Seattle is not going to over pay him.

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Jauronimo Hall of Famer

Jauronimo

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The running game/defense wasn't making those throws down the field that beat the Packers in OT. Given his targets are a bunch of 6'0" guys who weren't drafted, I'd say Wilson is doing pretty well.

 

I think it this a pretty outdated take on Wilson. The dude is extremely smart on the field, he almost always makes the right decision (except for 1 throw in the Super Bowl), if you give him 5 yards, he'll take 5 yards instead of trying to turn it into 20. By most any advanced metric he's the best runner as a QB in the league and he avoids the kill shots Cam takes head on. He throws a very nice deep ball, ranking very high in deep ball % and is a killer on 3rd down.

 

 

If Taylor (or EJ) were to give us 80% of Wilson this year, we'd cruise to the division championship.

Wilson's prolific passing game was exactly why the Seahawks needed a series of completely improbable plays, total defensive breakdowns, and a special teams debacle to even force OT. Pretty poor example to pick.

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ko12010 RFA

ko12010

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Hes a solid QB but he is not in the same category and Aaron Rogers, Brees, Peyton Manning, and the Grand Cheater Tom Brady.

 

He is the product of the great defense, He deserves a fat raise but Seattle is not going to over pay him.

Haha I'd love for this to become his new moniker. Don't ever have to say Tom Brady, just The Grand Cheater

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Chuck Wagon Veteran

Chuck Wagon

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Wilson's prolific passing game was exactly why the Seahawks needed a series of completely improbable plays, total defensive breakdowns, and a special teams debacle to even force OT. Pretty poor example to pick.

 

 

Wilson played his worst game of his career the first 3 quarters of that game. He tore it up the 4th quarter.

 

 

It's pretty clear most people here don't watch many Seahawks games. Do you think their running game would be near as effective if they had Kyle Orton running the zone read with Marshawn? Or they would have been in the past two Super Bowls with Andy Dalton at QB?

 

People said Tom Brady was a product of his defense for years, until they realized how good he was, Wilson is the same thing. I can't believe anyone who actually watched the 2nd half of Peyton's season last year and the 2nd half of Wilson's would think they clearly aren't on the same level.

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ko12010 RFA

ko12010

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Posted

 

 

Wilson played his worst game of his career the first 3 quarters of that game. He tore it up the 4th quarter.

 

 

It's pretty clear most people here don't watch many Seahawks games. Do you think their running game would be near as effective if they had Kyle Orton running the zone read with Marshawn? Or they would have been in the past two Super Bowls with Andy Dalton at QB?

 

People said Tom Brady was a product of his defense for years, until they realized how good he was, Wilson is the same thing. I can't believe anyone who actually watched the 2nd half of Peyton's season last year and the 2nd half of Wilson's would think they clearly aren't on the same level.

I feel like people just can't believe that he really is that good, and he's not going to suddenly drop off or be exposed. The comparison to early Brady is a good one. I'm sure his role will increase as they are forced to let go of other weapons due to cap restrictions.

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Jauronimo Hall of Famer

Jauronimo

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Posted (edited)

 

 

Wilson played his worst game of his career the first 3 quarters of that game. He tore it up the 4th quarter.

 

 

It's pretty clear most people here don't watch many Seahawks games. Do you think their running game would be near as effective if they had Kyle Orton running the zone read with Marshawn? Or they would have been in the past two Super Bowls with Andy Dalton at QB?

 

People said Tom Brady was a product of his defense for years, until they realized how good he was, Wilson is the same thing. I can't believe anyone who actually watched the 2nd half of Peyton's season last year and the 2nd half of Wilson's would think they clearly aren't on the same level.

I can't believe anyone would seriously compare a young up and coming QB to a first ballot HoF QB in rapid decline and then fail to conclude that poor comparison with a point.

 

Unless you're suggesting that neither Manning or Wilson are elite at this point in their careers and for very different reasons. I can agree with that.

Edited by Jauronimo
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Chuck Wagon Veteran

Chuck Wagon

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I can't believe anyone would seriously compare a young up and coming QB to a first ballot HoF QB in rapid decline and then fail to conclude that poor comparison with a point.

 

 

I'm simply echoing others who say he's not on Peyton's level. The Broncos are paying Peyton plenty of money this year and they aren't getting the 27 year old version. Do you think Wilson is worse than Dalton, or Cutler or Kaepernick? All of those 3 are getting paid very well. To say Wilson is simply a product of his running game and defense is uneducated and flat out wrong. If a strong running game was all a QB needed, one would think Christian Ponder and Matt Schaub would still be getting paid handsomely. Wilson is making plays in the NFC title game and the Super Bowl throwing to Doug Baldwin and Ricardo Lockette, there's a bunch of QBs in the league doing less with more than he is.

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Jauronimo Hall of Famer

Jauronimo

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I'm simply echoing others who say he's not on Peyton's level. The Broncos are paying Peyton plenty of money this year and they aren't getting the 27 year old version.

1. Do you think Wilson is worse than Dalton, or Cutler or Kaepernick? All of those 3 are getting paid very well.

2. To say Wilson is simply a product of his running game and defense is uneducated and flat out wrong.

3. If a strong running game was all a QB needed, one would think Christian Ponder and Matt Schaub would still be getting paid handsomely.

4. Wilson is making plays in the NFC title game and the Super Bowl throwing to Doug Baldwin and Ricardo Lockette, there's a bunch of QBs in the league doing less with more than he is.

Moving the goal posts quite a bit, I see.

1. Who said he's worse than Dalton, Cutler and Kaep and what is your point?

2. I didn't say that.

3. False equivalency.

4. Neat. What does that have to do with my point?

 

This is only going to get worse for you.

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Chuck Wagon Veteran

Chuck Wagon

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Moving the goal posts quite a bit, I see.

1. Who said he's worse than Dalton, Cutler and Kaep and what is your point?

2. I didn't say that.

3. False equivalency.

4. Neat. What does that have to do with my point?

 

My point with mentioning those 3 is that's how much a QB costs. All 3 of those guys

 

 

Dalton/Cutler/Kaep have established the baseline for a starting QB salary. Wilson is better than all 3. You failed to answer my question about the Seahawks running game being nearly as good with Kyle Orton at QB and yet you said that's the basis for their success. False equivalency? Do you think Marshawn is clearly better than Peterson/Foster? The Vikings/Texans weren't getting competent QB play out of Ponder/Schaub at the end, much less at the level of Wilson. Do you think the Seahawks would be better off letting Wilson walk and keeping everyone else intact? Aren't we trying to build the same thing as the Seahawks? Do you feel comfortable that we are about to win a Super Bowl and go to 3 straight AFC title games with Taylor/EJ/Cassel at QB?

 

I'm comfortable in my stance the Seahawks will be able to keep the ball rolling as long as Carroll/Wilson are together. You disagree. Nothing I say is going to change the mind of someone who clearly has watched very little of Wilson play yet remains firm in their stance.

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Jauronimo Hall of Famer

Jauronimo

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Dalton/Cutler/Kaep have established the baseline for a starting QB salary. Wilson is better than all 3. You failed to answer my question about the Seahawks running game being nearly as good with Kyle Orton at QB and yet you said that's the basis for their success. False equivalency? Do you think Marshawn is clearly better than Peterson/Foster? The Vikings/Texans weren't getting competent QB play out of Ponder/Schaub at the end, much less at the level of Wilson. Do you think the Seahawks would be better off letting Wilson walk and keeping everyone else intact? Aren't we trying to build the same thing as the Seahawks? Do you feel comfortable that we are about to win a Super Bowl and go to 3 straight AFC title games with Taylor/EJ/Cassel at QB?

 

I'm comfortable in my stance the Seahawks will be able to keep the ball rolling as long as Carroll/Wilson are together. You disagree. Nothing I say is going to change the mind of someone who clearly has watched very little of Wilson play yet remains firm in their stance.

Your questions have nothing to with my point. Stop embarrassing yourself.

 

Cutler, Kaep, and Dalton all received deals which their respective teams are now regretting. I do not subscribe to the theory that just because Cutler got paid stupid money means every other QB on par or better deserves stupid money plus a premium.

 

There is room for a QB to be better than the three aforementioned yet not nearly as good as Rodgers, Brees, Brady, and Manning before his body fell apart. Its not an insult to suggest that Russel isn't Canton bound.

 

Wilson is not SOLELY the product of a great D and strong running game, but I do not think Seattle makes it to two consecutive Super Bowls with a middle of the pack D and average running game.

 

This isn't that hard to comprehend. You disagree, and that's fine since its just my opinion and prediction, but your arguments suck and have no bearing on what I've written.

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What a Tuel Veteran

What a Tuel

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Posted (edited)

Russell Wilson is a decent QB. He does not deserve the money of the top QB's though. He was #10 in the top 10 last year, and I would say Matt Ryan (#11), Philip Rivers (#12), and Eli Manning (#15) are better QB's.

 

Who was ahead of him?

 

#1 Tony Romo

#2 Aaron Rodgers

#3 Ben Roethlisberger

#4 Peyton Manning

#5 Tom Brady*

#6 Drew Brees

#7 Andrew Luck

#8 Carson Palmer

#9 Ryan Fitzpatrick....?!

#10 Russell Wilson

 

Yes those rankings don't factor in rushing yards, but I don't think that puts him above the top 7 QB's and not above Ryan, Rivers or E Manning.

 

Edit: As for the argument above lesser QB's getting paid a ton, I don't think anyone thought it was a good idea the Niners signed Kap to that deal either......

Edited by What a Tuel
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