True cost of Bills' Watkins trade

[JESSEFEFFER]

Some of the best players on the current roster did not make much of an impact as rookies. As a matter of fact, the Bills have traded for and signed free agent players that have made more of an immediate impact than many of their first round picks of the last decade. The draft is over rated as a means to improve a team's roster. It's just, by far, the one that is the most fun about which to talk.

 

The Texans improved 7 games without Clowney's help. The Bills' potential for improvement in 2015 does not rely much on the draft.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Sammy will prove it was a good trade. Just get him a quarterback who can get him the ball. Since that's a very tall order, Sammy may unfortunately never appear to have given us enough value.

[T master]

When news came from colleague Adam Schefter that former Buffalo Bills head coach Doug Marrone did not approve of the team's decision to trade up in the 2014 NFL draft to select Clemson wide receiver Sammy Watkins, giving away their 2015 first-round pick in the process, it provided a natural opportunity to assess the merits of the trade.

 

In many cases -- regardless of whether the transaction is a trade, free-agent signing or draft selection -- there's a tendency to forge a knee-jerk reaction that can prove to be inaccurate in the long term. But while Watkins' career is far from over, based on a multitude of factors involved, it's hard to disagree with the sentiment suggested by Marrone: The decision to trade up for him was not the right move.

 

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=12127113&src=desktop

 

 

I like the guts Whaley put forth in seeing what he wanted & going for it & i think Watkins is all that & a bag of chips BUT that being said the kid from FSU Kevin Benjamin had a great rookie year & i think he would have been there when the Bills picked at their original spot which would have been a great pick also & more along the lines of what they had said they wanted a BIG WR that was open when their not .

 

To add to that EJ had a ton a familiarity with him , ow he ran routes , his work ethic all because they were team mates i was kind of thinking that should be the way the Bills would go given all that but didn't & am OK with it .

 

We haven't had that kind of balls in the draft room since Pollian was here & that is one of the reasons why i hope they see fit to laeve Whaley & his scout crew at their posts because the guy has a nose for talent , even if to this point it's not for a QB unless he see's what we are all missing ...

[Green Lightning]

I've officially lost count of how many Watkins trade threads there are currently active. What's one more I guess.

[BillsBackersChicago]

The draft is like the carnival game where you throw the rings at the beer bottles. We traded a handful of rings for the opportunity to hop over the counter and cram a ring over the neck of the bottle.

 

We got our giant stuffed dog. Time to go wolf down a funnel cake.

Best post about Sammy I've seen all year. Mostly because it involves funnel cake.

 

I have weight issues.

[HailMary]

20%. That was the cost of the Watkins trade. Look back at every 1st round in the last 10 years and calculate the percentage of players that actually go on to have a decent career....maybe 20%. So the bottom line is that objectively speaking that player we would have picked at 19 would have had a 20% chance of being an impact player.

 

The best part of the trade as what unfolded last week with Marrone and his tribute to Steve Miller's "Take The Money and Run" act.

[sodbuster]

Best post about Sammy I've seen all year. Mostly because it involves funnel cake.

 

I have weight issues.

I don't. But funnel cake is too good to not bring up when I mention a carnival.

[Billsfan1972]

Obsessing over the draft when we traded and got a gifted productive receiver???? Get a life..... Really makes no sense. Now if we traded up to get Eric Ebron (or someone else who did not perform) then maybe there is a debate. I really don't get it.

 

Lets take it a step further amongst those who deride the Bills and really like 6-10 season. Detroit & Minnesota games were definitely won thanks to Watkins. The catch he made leading to the 58 yard fg by Carpenter was one of the greatest under-appreciated catches of the season.

 

Damn 9-7, when we could have been 7-9 or 6-10 without SW and had the 9th pick, that sucks!!!!!

 

While no one has actually posted the insider article I am am curious how they could come to that conclusion and whether they actually watched KO do very little to help SW during the season.

 

Sorry a bird in the hand is worth more then two in the bush.....

Edited January 9, 2015 by Billsfan1972

[peterpan]

 

Anyone that agrees with what Doug Marrone thinks regarding NFL football decisions is an idiot.

 

Marrone had no clue what to do with Sammy Watkins. Whoever wrote this did not watch the Buffalo Bills play this season. They do not know that Doug Marrone refused to feature Sammy Watkins. They do not know that if Doug Marrone was the head coach of the Giants that Odell Beckham Jr. would have had a rather ordinary rookie season for a WR than become the superstar he became under Ben McAdoo.

I think two things Marrone knows, and is right about, is that A) EJ Manual has no business starting in this league and B) trading up for Watkins was stupid when you dont have the required skill at QB to use his talents.

 

Marrone was right about those things and it seems Whaley still hasn't come around. I do believe EJ was the main disagreement point between the Dougs (what else could they really argue about?) and that is why Marrone left. I also would bet that EJ is a huge wrench in our finding a new coach. Not having a 1st round pick is also a huge negative I'm sure, because new coaches know we need a new QB, but that would be moot if EJ was any good.

 

The biggest defenders of Sammy say "Put him on the GIants, with Eli Manning, and Sammy would have 12 catches and 150 yards and 2 tds a game too!!!!" We are in agreement! We dont have a QB and look what kind a production you get from a stud like Sammy!!!!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Remember when the Browns traded Julio Jones for Brandon Weeden, Greg Little, Phil Taylor, Owen Marecic and a pick they used to move up from 4th to 3rd to make sure no one could get Trent Richardson? And every Browns fan said "Awesome deal, we really ripped them off".

 

 

Why do I have a feeling the Sammy trade is going to end up looking very similar?

Also to apply my own cynicism to this example, the Bills needed the surest of sure things to even get an average perfomance from this franchise. Beckham would have had 400 yards if any for the bills and the rest even worse. May as well overpay/reach for a few sure things then leave it to them to hit on multiple "value" picks!

[st pete gogolak]

The revisionist thinking on this board is astounding. If Cleveland had made the trade and then used the 9th pick on OBJ (besides blowing the minds of everyone who posts on this board from now to doomsday) then you'd have to give Cleveland credit for making the trade and being able to spot an enormous talent. But they didn't. They picked a CB who looks to be as big a bust as anyone picked in the first round. Why didn't Minnesota, Detroit or Tennessee pick OBJ? The reason is NO ONE projected OBJ as a top ten pick and it's foolish to project backward that he was. Give the Giants credit. They spotted a unique talent and made a hell of a pick. I wasn't a fan of the trade when it was made (because of nightmares that Cleveland would wind up with #1 overall pick) but I can certainly live with it now. We got a true #1 receiver. We have specific needs that can be addressed in free agency and the draft. Yes, it will come down to QB play but I defy anyone from making an argument that the Watkins trade prevented us from obtaining a franchise QB. Be happy with the trade and move on!

[Homey D. Clown]

I'm perfectly fine with the trade. in the end, I'd take him over odell peckham any day. So what if he had a super awesome catch, did they even win that game? no. did they make the playoffs? No. Will that one play get him into the hall of fame? No. Does he look like a better player than Sammy? No. Only time will tell, but I think we have the higher character player, and the player with much better work ethic, and those 2 things are the traits that create players like Jerry Rice, instead of idiots like Chad Johnson. I am not saying it's going to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least of peckham fades away like Johnson Ocho-douche-O did.

[RealityCheck]

With the right QB, Watkins could be the next Jerry Rice. With the wrong QB, he could be the next Eric Moulds. See where I'm going with this.

[K-9]

The revisionist thinking on this board is astounding. If Cleveland had made the trade and then used the 9th pick on OBJ (besides blowing the minds of everyone who posts on this board from now to doomsday) then you'd have to give Cleveland credit for making the trade and being able to spot an enormous talent. But they didn't. They picked a CB who looks to be as big a bust as anyone picked in the first round. Why didn't Minnesota, Detroit or Tennessee pick OBJ? The reason is NO ONE projected OBJ as a top ten pick and it's foolish to project backward that he was. Give the Giants credit. They spotted a unique talent and made a hell of a pick. I wasn't a fan of the trade when it was made (because of nightmares that Cleveland would wind up with #1 overall pick) but I can certainly live with it now. We got a true #1 receiver. We have specific needs that can be addressed in free agency and the draft. Yes, it will come down to QB play but I defy anyone from making an argument that the Watkins trade prevented us from obtaining a franchise QB. Be happy with the trade and move on!

This gibes with the majority of scouts that had OBJ going somewhere in the mid-first round, around the 14th-18th pick; there was some surprise he went as high as he did at 12, but nobody I know was shocked, either. I had heard that Whaley, if Cleveland didn't make the deal and Ebron was gone at 9, would have traded down with the hopes of getting either OBJ or Z Martin in the middle of the round.

 

Agree 100%, be happy with the trade and move on. We got a certifiable stud that's gonna wreak havoc on opponents for years to come.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[TDRupp]

The Giants offense was designed to push the ball downfield to the wide receivers while Marrone's Bills offense this season was designed to create 4th and 1 situations in order to play a field position strategy, play good defense, and put special teams into a position to kick as many FG's as possible.

Do not forget the other key. Kickoff the deep or out of the end zone after reach FG!

[peterpan]

The revisionist thinking on this board is astounding. If Cleveland had made the trade and then used the 9th pick on OBJ (besides blowing the minds of everyone who posts on this board from now to doomsday) then you'd have to give Cleveland credit for making the trade and being able to spot an enormous talent. But they didn't. They picked a CB who looks to be as big a bust as anyone picked in the first round. Why didn't Minnesota, Detroit or Tennessee pick OBJ? The reason is NO ONE projected OBJ as a top ten pick and it's foolish to project backward that he was. Give the Giants credit. They spotted a unique talent and made a hell of a pick. I wasn't a fan of the trade when it was made (because of nightmares that Cleveland would wind up with #1 overall pick) but I can certainly live with it now. We got a true #1 receiver. We have specific needs that can be addressed in free agency and the draft. Yes, it will come down to QB play but I defy anyone from making an argument that the Watkins trade prevented us from obtaining a franchise QB. Be happy with the trade and move on!

 

 

Multiple executives where quoted, albeit anonymously, that OBJ was their teams top rated WR. Heck even Buffalo was targeting him with their 9th pick if they couldnt trade up for Sammy. It was between Beckum and Ebron

Edited January 9, 2015 by peterpan

[metzelaars_lives]

Jesus why is this still a thread. The title itself is an unanswerable question. We may as well have a "what is the meaning of life?" thread.

[K-9]

Multiple executives where quoted, albeit anonymously, that OBJ was their teams top rated WR. Heck even Buffalo was targeting him with their 9th pick if they couldnt trade up for Sammy. It was between Beckum and Ebron

 

Isn't that convenient. Please show me where all these insightful soles were prior to the draft. Or even prior to Beckham's starting his first game. Nobody in their right mind had anybody but Sammy Watkins at the top of the receiver board. Period. End of story. Anything else is pure, revisionist, 20/20 hindsight crap.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thebandit27]

Multiple executives where quoted, albeit anonymously, that OBJ was their teams top rated WR. Heck even Buffalo was targeting him with their 9th pick if they couldnt trade up for Sammy. It was between Beckum and Ebron

 

This reminds me of how every team supposedly liked Russell Wilson back in 2012...and yet nobody picked him in the first 2 rounds.

 

Also, the pick would've been Ebron...Whaley himself told this to KellytheDog in person.

[st pete gogolak]

If the Bills had honest to God targeted Beckham for the 9th pick, then it's a dumb - even bizarre - trade. I simply don't believe that's true.

[1B4IDie]

If the Bills had honest to God targeted Beckham for the 9th pick, then it's a dumb - even bizarre - trade. I simply don't believe that's true.

Stop being logical!

 

You need to Cherry pick random rookies that did better than expected, then bast the Front Office for not knowing the future with 100% certainty.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Why So Serious?

[GaryPinC]

I honestly think part of the reason we traded up for Watkins is because of his work ethic, attitude, and passion he brings to the field. As a coach, I can say you covet those rare players who elevate their focus and effort and put it all on the line when the game's outcome is in doubt. Sammy seems like he's one of those types of people, and we should see that once he settles in and gets a decent QB. I think that's part of Whaley's gamble and I respect him for it. Hopefully being around Heinz Ward, Polamalu, and Rothelisberger taught him that appreciation.

[1billsfan]

I think two things Marrone knows, and is right about, is that A) EJ Manual has no business starting in this league and B) trading up for Watkins was stupid when you dont have the required skill at QB to use his talents.

 

Marrone was right about those things and it seems Whaley still hasn't come around. I do believe EJ was the main disagreement point between the Dougs (what else could they really argue about?) and that is why Marrone left. I also would bet that EJ is a huge wrench in our finding a new coach. Not having a 1st round pick is also a huge negative I'm sure, because new coaches know we need a new QB, but that would be moot if EJ was any good.

 

The biggest defenders of Sammy say "Put him on the GIants, with Eli Manning, and Sammy would have 12 catches and 150 yards and 2 tds a game too!!!!" We are in agreement! We dont have a QB and look what kind a production you get from a stud like Sammy!!!!

 

Marrone would love for everyone like you to believe this bs. However, it's clear as day that Manuel's biggest problem was Marrone. If you couldn't see that our offense was horrific because it was so "high school" in it's predictability and safeness, then I don't think there's any need to continue debating the issue with you.

[Rob's House]

The revisionist thinking on this board is astounding. If Cleveland had made the trade and then used the 9th pick on OBJ (besides blowing the minds of everyone who posts on this board from now to doomsday) then you'd have to give Cleveland credit for making the trade and being able to spot an enormous talent. But they didn't. They picked a CB who looks to be as big a bust as anyone picked in the first round. Why didn't Minnesota, Detroit or Tennessee pick OBJ? The reason is NO ONE projected OBJ as a top ten pick and it's foolish to project backward that he was. Give the Giants credit. They spotted a unique talent and made a hell of a pick. I wasn't a fan of the trade when it was made (because of nightmares that Cleveland would wind up with #1 overall pick) but I can certainly live with it now. We got a true #1 receiver. We have specific needs that can be addressed in free agency and the draft. Yes, it will come down to QB play but I defy anyone from making an argument that the Watkins trade prevented us from obtaining a franchise QB. Be happy with the trade and move on!

What difference does it make what Cleveland did or does with the picks?

 

Plus, it's not just about Beckham. The point is that there were so many good WR options available that it seems the cost to move up may have outweighed the upgrade in talent.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Rob's House

[GG]

 

Isn't that convenient. Please show me where all these insightful soles were prior to the draft. Or even prior to Beckham's starting his first game. Nobody in their right mind had anybody but Sammy Watkins at the top of the receiver board. Period. End of story. Anything else is pure, revisionist, 20/20 hindsight crap.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

There was only one story that maybe perhaps Chip Kelly had OBD as his No. 1 guy.

[dave mcbride]

 

Isn't that convenient. Please show me where all these insightful soles were prior to the draft. Or even prior to Beckham's starting his first game. Nobody in their right mind had anybody but Sammy Watkins at the top of the receiver board. Period. End of story. Anything else is pure, revisionist, 20/20 hindsight crap.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Here's the Chip Kelly story: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000449005/article/chip-kelly-eagles-had-odell-beckham-as-drafts-top-wr

[K-9]

 

There was only one story that maybe perhaps Chip Kelly had OBD as his No. 1 guy.

 

 

Here's the Chip Kelly story: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000449005/article/chip-kelly-eagles-had-odell-beckham-as-drafts-top-wr

I saw that back in December, too.

 

My question remains: where are all these "team executives" or even Chip Kelly himself saying this BEFORE the draft? How about even BEFORE the season started? It's one thing to have courage of conviction before the fact and quite another to have it seven months after.

 

I doubt a single scout on the Eagles' staff had anybody but Sammy Watkins as their #1 receiver. Hell, he was crowding Clowney for #1 on everybody's big board, let alone the receiver boards.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[dave mcbride]

 

 

I saw that back in December, too.

 

My question remains: where are all these "team executives" or even Chip Kelly himself saying this BEFORE the draft? How about even BEFORE the season started? It's one thing to have courage of conviction before the fact and quite another to have it seven months after.

 

I doubt a single scout on the Eagles' staff had anybody but Sammy Watkins as their #1 receiver. Hell, he was crowding Clowney for #1 on everybody's big board, let alone the receiver boards.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Oh, I don't know about that. Kelly marches to a different beat. He may have seen something that others didn't.

[playoffman]

Let's get a coach and new OC settled in first.

 

Once things get sorted out regarding the Bills coaching position, all of the discussion about Watkins replacing "prima donna" Stevie Johnson might be fun... especially to people like me who love Sammy.

The Pagula's are engaged to RUNNING the team. We didn't have that during the last draft... As of last May, who'd have thunk that Bon Jovi's - Toronto bid for the Bills would be dead. Ownership was VERY stressful, especially for the whole Bills organization including the BILLS NATION of fans inside and outside of WNY.

Go Bills!

Edited January 9, 2015 by playoffman

[Billsfan1972]

BTW JTSP you started the thread yet have not even posted the article, which you references (ESPN Insider), so few can even critique what was written..... Smooth move.....

Edited January 9, 2015 by Billsfan1972

[K-9]

Oh, I don't know about that. Kelly marches to a different beat. He may have seen something that others didn't.

I don't doubt Kelly is unique and sees talent in a different light given his schematic philosophy. But his praise for OBJ is too much, too late for me to believe that what he said in December, long after OBJ had started setting the league on fire, was anything more than high praise at the time.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Leroi]

The cost of Watkins was too much when there is no established QB.

 

A terrible decision.

 

Watkins was just average when the ball went his way; drops, injuries, trips over his big feet. He is nothing special.

 

 

Imo

The Trade wasn't worh it. PERIOD

 

 

JMO

[bobblehead]

I think the trade was worth it.

[FitzShowUsYourTitz]

The draft is like the carnival game where you throw the rings at the beer bottles. We traded a handful of rings for the opportunity to hop over the counter and cram a ring over the neck of the bottle.

 

We got our giant stuffed dog. Time to go wolf down a funnel cake.

 

Nice! Love it. See you in the beer tent!!

[Wayne Cubed]

I don't doubt Kelly is unique and sees talent in a different light given his schematic philosophy. But his praise for OBJ is too much, too late for me to believe that what he said in December, long after OBJ had started setting the league on fire, was anything more than high praise at the time.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Convenient that the quote came right before the Eagles played the Giants as well. I'll also add, why didn't he say it the first time the Eagles played the Giants in week 6. Oh that's right because OBJ only had about 60 yards in 2 games at that point.

 

It's a hindsight compliment and I agree, I doubt the Eagles had him #1 WR.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Wayne Cubed

[Bash_Gash]

As many have said hindsight is a easy thing to do. bills could have easily drafted Ebron or someone else that would nit have worked out. Watkins was a great pick at that time and many football analysts said as much. He had two pylon qb' throwing to him and the offence was vanilla thanks to marrone. I would love to see Watkins with a quality oc and qb. There were many times he was open by 5 strides and they never gave him the ball or over threw him. Time will tell how he pans out.

[Mickey]

 

Anyone that agrees with what Doug Marrone thinks regarding NFL football decisions is an idiot.

 

Marrone had no clue what to do with Sammy Watkins. Whoever wrote this did not watch the Buffalo Bills play this season. They do not know that Doug Marrone refused to feature Sammy Watkins. They do not know that if Doug Marrone was the head coach of the Giants that Odell Beckham Jr. would have had a rather ordinary rookie season for a WR than become the superstar he became under Ben McAdoo.

Sammy had the best year of any rookie WR in the history of a 54 year old franchise. Pretty good for not being "featured" on a team with horrific OL and QB problems. If the OC calls a play where Sammy is the primary target and Orton decides that he is covered and goes to another guy or if Orton doesn't have time for Sammy to finish his route and has to dump it off, how would we know that Sammy wasn't "targeted" or "featured" on that play? Should the coaches have instructed Orton to throw it to Sammy no matter what the defense is, regardless of the pass protection situation and even if someone else is wide open?

[Reed83HOF]

We are still on this huh?

 

It's never going to end is it?

[K-9]

Convenient that the quote came right before the Eagles played the Giants as well. I'll also add, why didn't he say it the first time the Eagles played the Giants in week 6. Oh that's right because OBJ only had about 60 yards in 2 games at that point.

 

It's a hindsight compliment and I agree, I doubt the Eagles had him #1 WR.

Good catch. Sounds more like typical pre-game compliments from the opposing coach more than anything.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Bill from NYC]

It was a dumb move and Marrone was right. We keep the pick the Bills then could have bolstered the O line and then drafted a viable QB option like Carr. A much better scenario for the Bills. Tack on what we now seem to know that Marrone didn't want EJ and you realize the no win catch 22 predicament he was in. He's tasked to build an offense then is totally hamsrtinged by Whaley about personnel decisions. You can't hire somebody to do a job then put roadblocks in his way. And he still got the team to 9-7 with a cowardly sloth as the best option at QB. I would have opted out too once I learned that it wasn't going to change.

I understand what you are saying Coach Marrone. BUT, you were dead last in scoring inside the halftime deuce, and you truly did botch things on the OL which was supposed to be your area of expertise. That said, I for one appreciated the way you stood up to your dumb bosses.

 

It's going to be tough for you to get a job. You are not a true offensive mind and you might not even be hired as an OL coach due to your lousy results with the Bills. Then again with 4 mil. in ones pocket, who really does need a job? If you do feel like working, I suggest that you apply to some second rate colleges. Your record suggests that you will raise their level of play to mediocre.

 

Be well Coach.