NoSaint Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 what's next....adulterers, substance abuse violators, PED's, wife beaters, child abusers, drunks, car speeders, personal conduct violators, sinners, involuntary manslaughter, convicts. complete waste of time. In the flip side, when do you start taking guys down? Child molesters? Serial killers? Terrorists?!? It's a team honor and I think it's entirely appropriate to say it's not listed unconditionally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 You need to be more clear in what you are alleging. Allegedly, I need to be more clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalftimeAdjustment Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'm the biggest OJ supporter in the world - as a player. He was my hero, I wore number 32, kept a scrapbook, had posters on my wall, played TB in HS. I have a question for people on here. Joe Paterno had his statue torn down faster than Hitler, Stalin and Saddam! Does this matter at all in the discussion? My son at a Bills game asked me why OJ was still on the wall, and why Joe Pa who had done ALOT for PSU, had his statue torn down. This whole paradox strikes me as odd. I don't have the answer. Help me out. The (in)action for which Paterno has been criticized, occurred during his tenure as the Penn State football coach. In fact, it was his very position as coach that put him in a position to influence the situation. On the other hand, OJ's actions for which he is condemned all occurred well after his football days were over. Whether people believe that makes any difference in how things should be treated, it is different in timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The (in)action for which Paterno has been criticized, occurred during his tenure as the Penn State football coach. In fact, it was his very position as coach that put him in a position to influence the situation. On the other hand, OJ's actions for which he is condemned all occurred well after his football days were over. Whether people believe that makes any difference in how things should be treated, it is different in timing. another point is that these are institutional decisions. not everyone is going to land in the same spot on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 the only reason i would say NO to taking it down is because the media would make a big deal about it. if they could take it down and nobody would care or notice then sure. but the media circus surrounding it would be annoying so might as well just keep it up there and pretend it's not there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 the only reason i would say NO to taking it down is because the media would make a big deal about it. if they could take it down and nobody would care or notice then sure. but the media circus surrounding it would be annoying so might as well just keep it up there and pretend it's not there If, as an earlier poster suggested, they just remove it with no prior notice/no fanfare, then I think that would help alleviate some of the media circus. The news would last all of a week; maybe one day on the national circuit. It's a small time investment to do what's right in the long run, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The poll is holding strong @ 70/30 with almost 200 voting. That's a pretty good sampling. The moral do-gooders seem to be outnumbered badly and rightly so! Glad the majority haven't lost their senses and the sense of what it means to live in America. It just blows my mind that people look @ the name and get bothered by it. He played almost 20 years prior to his personal transgressions. This is PCness run amok to take his name down. Social enginerring @ its worst. Amazing... Change his name to Mr. Treesweet and all the gentle sensibilities won't be hurt? 20 years prior he played for the Bills... WOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The poll is holding strong @ 70/30 with almost 200 voting. That's a pretty good sampling. The moral do-gooders seem to be outnumbered badly and rightly so! Glad the majority haven't lost their senses and the sense of what it means to live in America. I would love it if this were a national poll. Anyone voting for OJ to remain would be doing it just to be absurd. Only Bills fans would want to keep paying tribute to OJ. Everyone else in the world recognizes how embarrassing this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) I would love it if this were a national poll. Anyone voting for OJ to remain would be doing it just to be absurd. Only Bills fans would want to keep paying tribute to OJ. Everyone else in the world recognizes how embarrassing this is. I think this is a good point. 200 Bills Fans, many in there 40s and 50s, who watched OJ play and he was their hero. A National poll would likely be reversed. Edited January 5, 2015 by moreproblemsthanOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I think this is a good point. 200 Bills Fans, many in there 40s and 50s, who watched OJ play and he was their hero. A National poll would likely be reversed. And it's 200 tbd posters, the most intense bills fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I would love it if this were a national poll. Anyone voting for OJ to remain would be doing it just to be absurd. Only Bills fans would want to keep paying tribute to OJ. Everyone else in the world recognizes how embarrassing this is. Why? How does the opinion of people who couldn't find Buffalo on a map of New York State bear any relevance, aside from your assumption that it would support your position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I think they should have a "free oj" day for one of the games every year. Now, i dont mean like let OJ Simpson out of jail, i actually mean just free orange juice. Would be a brilliant marketing stratgy, and im sure it would help sell out games and bring some really positive attention from the national media. Git r done Russ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe Someday Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 This is a tough one. I don’t have really strong feelings on this either way but I ultimately voted No. His name was already on the wall prior to him becoming a murderer…or alleged murdered (wink, wink). No matter what he did/does after his playing career ended, he is still one of the greatest NFL and Buffalo Bills players of all time. Nothing will ever change that therefore I don’t think his name should be taken down from the wall. That being said, I would have no problem if the new ownership decided to take it down or omitted it from a new stadium in the future. How about this compromise, leave his name on the wall but put bars over it? I like that idea best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I know this issue gets shut down every time it's brought up. However ... the Bills have a new owner now. I think this is a relevant discussion (civil discussion) that should take place. As much as domestic violence has been at the forefront of so much of the NFL news this season, I can't believe it hasn't come up. This is not a Hall of Fame discussion; it's a Wall of Fame discussion. I personally find it disgusting that his name is still on the Wall of Fame. I think it is disrespectful. I think it is irresponsible. I think it is disgraceful. This is solely about the fact that he was found liable for the deaths of two innocent people; nothing to do with him being in prison now, or committing the crimes that landed him there. He's a murderer and his name shouldn't be on that wall. I hope the Pegulas do what Ralph Wilson failed to do. I'm with you! Sad that our greatest player is a degenerate and a sociopath, but I can't stand seeing his name up there. He is in jail for armed robbery and kidnapping and should have been convicted of murder if not for a crooked jury. Why should we continue to honor him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'm with you! Sad that our greatest player is a degenerate and a sociopath, but I can't stand seeing his name up there. He is in jail for armed robbery and kidnapping and should have been convicted of murder if not for a crooked jury. Why should we continue to honor him? What you are describing is a handicap. I would hate to be the guy to remove any players name off that wall over a disability. OJ has genuine psychological problems and needs our support. To this day I never pass up an opportunity to hurdle luggage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blogic2 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I grew up as an OJ fan. At one time, he lived at the end of my street. That being said, he has become an embarrassment as a human being after his playing days. I wince at the mention of his name because I remember running around pretending to be OJ as a kid and now wouldn't want to be associated with him at all. I voted "No" because of his on-field accomplishments but would not have an issue if his name was taken down quietly or not included in a future stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) I would love it if this were a national poll. Anyone voting for OJ to remain would be doing it just to be absurd. Only Bills fans would want to keep paying tribute to OJ. Everyone else in the world recognizes how embarrassing this is. Well, that would be fine Mr. A. if this was a debate about the (National) Hall of Fame, But it's a discussion on OJ continuing to be on the Bills Ring of Fame. So, I'm going to give a little more weight to the Bill's fans opinions that have been posted here, rather than your "moral majority" . Edited January 5, 2015 by B-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 He's on there for what he did on the field and he was found not guilty of murder. No argument NUFF SAID!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 In related news OJ's Heisman has been found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 He's on there for what he did on the field and he was found not guilty of murder. No argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) And it's also worth pointing out that removing the name doesn't erase the fact that it was once up there. It's such a clear decision, IMO, the only reason it hasn't been brought down already is this is an organization clearly mired in the thinking of "well it's just how we've always done things, so, even though they don't make sense, we've always done it that way, and let's just keep doing it." How about this as a rule of thumb for Wall of Fame: if its in any doubt, it really shouldn't be up. If OJ wouldn't be welcome in the stadium — and he wouldn't — he shouldn't have his name on the Wall. I'll go further and say having OJ Simpson's name on the Wall diminishes the value of the other names. To be strictly practical, removing it would be a good "quietly noble" PR move for the Pegulas. Nobody is going to be like "wow, what a terrible move!" People might respond with "how was it still up to begin with?! Good for them to take it down." Moreover, it would just be right. Before his latest bout with the law, he had been back to the stadium. In Mr. Wilson's box. ijs. Gugny, I disagree with you, but I respect your opinion. But how many times are you going to post this same topic and get the same results? If you haven't already, why don't you write a letter or call the Pegula's? Go start an online petition, and you and others who feel like you can sign it. Then you can send that along to the Pegula's. I don't believe his name should be taken down because it was an honor for his accomplishments on the field, nothing more, nothing less. Also, taking it down changes nothing. He still played. He still was a great football player in the NFL, for the Buffalo Bills. He's still in the NFL Hall of Fame as a Buffalo Bill. Anyone who thinks OJ and NFL with think Bills. And he still would have gotten into the mess he created after he retired. That's it. Take his name down doesn't change that. Most people aren't thinking about his name being up there one way or another. I hadn't thought about it until you mentioned it. Again... Edited January 8, 2015 by purple haze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Monkeyhead Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Give OJ some more time. He's still looking for the real murderer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Why? How does the opinion of people who couldn't find Buffalo on a map of New York State bear any relevance, aside from your assumption that it would support your position? Do you doubt my assumption? My out of town friends who come to Bills games take photos of the honor you support giving OJ in disbelief. The NFL doesn't show that part of the stadium to shield themselves from letters because it's so embarrassing for Buffalo. If you vote yes, you celebrate honoring OJ. He played a role in the Bills success before his media hype, yes. That can never be taken away. But having his name still up there celebrates him NOW. Why you want to do that is beyond me. Take it down and you get 5 articles and a few thousand emails, and not one season ticket cancelation. Not one lasting legacy problem. Leave it up and every week, you see the embarrassing stain of him being honored. Hopefully in April, Pegula orders a cleaning of the ring, takes all of the names down, and one less returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) If you vote yes,no you celebrate honoring OJ. He played a role in the Bills success before his media hype, yes. That can never be taken away. But having his name still up there celebrates him NOW. Why you want to do that is beyond me. I celebrate honoring OJ. Yes, he killed those people. Even if he had been convicted, I would still want his name up there. Having his name up there does Not celebrate him now. It celebrates him for his time on this team where his name is. Other than Kelly, OJ is the best Bill ever. Ever. If a guy gets a Congressional Medal of Honor during a war, then 20 years later gets convicted of murder back here in the USA, do you take away his medal? (Hell Hell No). Everybody knows the story of OJ. But his name at the Ralph is not a lifetime achievement award. Its a football achievement award. Edited January 8, 2015 by maddenboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Well said. Using this logic to take his name down applying to other accomplishments doesn't happen. Awards for achievement is just that, for their achievements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 He's on there for what he did on the field and he was found not guilty of murder. No argument He was also found guilty in the wrongful death of two people, kidnapping and is a convicted felon in jail for the rest of his life. Embarassing for the Bills and a proven low life scumbag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 He was also found guilty in the wrongful death of two people, kidnapping and is a convicted felon in jail for the rest of his life. Embarassing for the Bills and a proven low life scumbag. Liable, not guilty. Again, there's a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Liable, not guilty. Again, there's a difference. yes, liable in the sense that DNA evidence indicates he sliced two people to ribbons with a huge knife and tracked their blood all over hell's half-acre. that's not the same as saying he is "guilty" of slicing two people to ribbons with a huge knife and tracking their blood around- and we need to make that distinction when we're talking about something important like the wall of fame. Edited January 8, 2015 by jester43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Greg Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Just take it down already. Yeah he was a great player. The record books remember him for that. Do we have to further glorify him by putting him on the stadium wall? It's just embarrassing at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 His name should remain on the Wall. IMHO he was the greatest Bill of all time, comparing his impact to the game at the time he played to anyone else's. He was far and away the best RB of his era, and there were a lot of great RBs around. Kelly was great too but probably not the best QB playing when he was playing. To me, it's not embarrassing to see his name up there, it's sad to think how such a talented person screwed up so badly. He was always an arrogant jerk, just a great athlete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Would anybody support taking his name down, but putting up a 32? A way of honoring his accomplishments but without his name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 John, I'm wondering...if your son's throat was cut by someone who was really good at their old job, would you think the saddest thing about it was that his murderer "screwed up?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 John, I'm wondering...if your son's throat was cut by someone who was really good at their old job, would you think the saddest thing about it was that his murderer "screwed up?" He never said it was the saddest part about it. It just really is sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) I celebrate honoring OJ. Yes, he killed those people. Even if he had been convicted, I would still want his name up there. Having his name up there does Not celebrate him now. It celebrates him for his time on this team where his name is. Other than Kelly, OJ is the best Bill ever. Ever. If a guy gets a Congressional Medal of Honor during a war, then 20 years later gets convicted of murder back here in the USA, do you take away his medal? (Hell Hell No). Everybody knows the story of OJ. But his name at the Ralph is not a lifetime achievement award. Its a football achievement award. Exactly! A lot of people do bad things. Some later in life, some early on. Sometimes you just need to separate things and stop getting all uptight. Seems guys like JA are more worried about what their friends think then doing what's right. Who the frig cares if douchebag friends are snapping pictures of the stadium. I guess they don't get the concept of living in America too. It's not cowardice to honor a man for what he did at certain points in his life and other times to not honor him. The Bills are honoring him for his accomplishments 20 years earlier. Simple, get a life to all the moral do-gooders... I have asked people in this area what they think and it is still 60/40 in favor of keeping the name, still a small sample... But they aren't Bills fans. I suspect nationally it may be about the same. Mix in people who hate BFLO/BFLO sports and they will vote yes to taking it down not to help BFLO heal, but to just vote yes in spite... To take something away from BFLO sports... A person who has no bearing on BFLO sports for what he was found innocent of 20 years later. Side story... Not that it matters. I never knew it but my neighbor was a German soldier. I found out a little more after he died. Came to the US after the war in the early 1950's... Kinda weird when he died a few years ago, I guess he was still getting some kind of army pension from Germany? Is that possible? He must have fought with Germany, right? He was from Serbia... Was he forced to be on the German side? I never asked. When he was alive, he told me stories and he claimed to have fought against Tito in the mountains (after the war). I always wondered about during the war, who's side he was on? Did he kill Americans/Allies? I guess it would be fine he was fighting the Russians (even though they were our allies) and then turned on the commies in "Yugoslavia"... IE: Tito. He worked @ Ford for over 30 years, retired in the 1980's. Edited January 8, 2015 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 It continues to amaze me how people can trivialize a double-murder and put it into the "did a bad thing" category. I believe in separating sports from real life ... but for God's sake, you don't choose the sports accomplishments over the double murder. It's a societal flaw in which the importance of sports superiority trumps the importance of character. it's why when star high school athletes get caught doing things wrong - parents, teachers and administrators look the other way ... because winning is more important than teaching a life lesson. Winning is more important than doing the right thing. That is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlamnSam Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I love you. Gladly, most people are keeping the discussion civil. This isn't political. It's purely Bills-related. With the new owner, I believe it's a discussion worth having. Separating real life (when two people are brutally murdered) from a game (football - yes; it's a game) is what makes me believe his name has no business being up there. I'm not saying Simpson wasn't a great RB/Bill. He was. I loved him in the Naked Gun movies, too. But there is something bigger than those accomplishments. Life. Ha I am being civil, just not by your view. Once again, the juice was found not guilty. But you mr civil gugny believe that your views are the correct ones and call him guilty when a whole jury says otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb62 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Ty Cobb anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Ty Cobb anyone? I actually voted yes. But Ty Cobb was just an @$$%0!e and a racist. That's far different from alleged double murderer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Ha I am being civil, just not by your view. Once again, the juice was found not guilty. But you mr civil gugny believe that your views are the correct ones and call him guilty when a whole jury says otherwise. Thank you. I still love you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 He never said it was the saddest part about it. It just really is sad. It's beyond sad...it is a complete horror. he willfully murdered 2 innocent people. he does not deserve recognition as a team hero when he is, in fact, a disgrace and embarrassment to the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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