DC Greg Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 It's beyond sad...it is a complete horror. he willfully murdered 2 innocent people. he does not deserve recognition as a team hero when he is, in fact, a disgrace and embarrassment to the Bills. I have to agree. As a Buffalo sports fan, I recognize the argument from folks that think it should stay up. I really do. But it's a complete embarrassment when any non Bills fans see it in the stadium. I've fielded that question a bunch of times at games, and I, personally, do not say "well he was a great player." I just feel ashamed that it's up there with the real heroes on that wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 What if we did just take the name off, but left the 32 up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Thank you. I still love you. Takin' the high road to a whole new level. GugGhandi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 What if we did just take the name off, but left the 32 up? Personally, I say no. I'd even go so far as to give the #32 to some practice squad guy, or even someone on the 53. Just another number. Just another jersey. People can remember him on their own terms. No need to force it on others who don't want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Personally, I say no. I'd even go so far as to give the #32 to some practice squad guy, or even someone on the 53. Just another number. Just another jersey. People can remember him on their own terms. No need to force it on others who don't want to. Would you atleast accept such a compromise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just in Atlanta Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Changing history to meet people's sensitivities is a bad idea. The history on that wall: He was a Hell of a ball player, NOT he was a Hell of an upstanding citizen. Do we have to have a yearly review of everyone on the wall to make sure they meet community standards? Now, should we scour police records and news stories and remove anyone who ever hit his wife, snorted blow or said something politically incorrect? Further, he was found not guilty. The thing he was found guilty of was, I think, trying to steal his own freaking trophy back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george c Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I respect the view that his name represents what he did on the field. I am also also extremely embarrassed to see his name on our stadium wall because it represents the ultimate scum bag, murderer, thief and liar he is as a man. If you ask the average American what they think when they see his name on our wall when the cameras scan the stadium, I would guess the ladder.. It's bad for Buffalo and a bad example to the young people of WNY. His name should come down. Edited January 9, 2015 by George C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 It continues to amaze me how people can trivialize a double-murder and put it into the "did a bad thing" category. I believe in separating sports from real life ... but for God's sake, you don't choose the sports accomplishments over the double murder. It's a societal flaw in which the importance of sports superiority trumps the importance of character. it's why when star high school athletes get caught doing things wrong - parents, teachers and administrators look the other way ... because winning is more important than teaching a life lesson. Winning is more important than doing the right thing. That is a problem. So dramatic... I guess indictments make headlines and aquittals the back page. The man was found innocent of double-murder, you have to respect that or you don't respect the American justice system. Now Gug, you are good guy... You can have you opinion if he did it or not, but the man was found innocent by a jury of his peers. Enough said. Now, if you want to take his name down becuase of the other stuff he is sitting in the pokey for, I can respect that more... Peace... I have to agree. As a Buffalo sports fan, I recognize the argument from folks that think it should stay up. I really do. But it's a complete embarrassment when any non Bills fans see it in the stadium. I've fielded that question a bunch of times at games, and I, personally, do not say "well he was a great player." I just feel ashamed that it's up there with the real heroes on that wall. Non-Bills fans are doing it to be douchebags, make it uneasy... Screw them. They need to go back to civics class. Never run from controversy! Better his name stays up and a dialog is created... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I'm ambivalent about this. Nothing in my history of Bills fandom gave me greater joy, and quickened my pulse, like watching OJ breaking into the open field. His name on the Wall of Fame conjures up images of his miraculous grace, power and vision when he wore number 32 for the Bills. His feats of gridiron magic are indelibly stamped in our collective memories and that's why his name is there. On the other hand, post-Buffalo OJ is a scumbag murderer. I wonder what the relatives of his victims think when they see his name still on the Wall. Why do we glorify a monster? For me it would be a tough call but if I were Terry Pegula, the name would come down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Goodell Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I think a four game suspension would have been appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhode Island Red Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I respect the view that his name represents what he did on the field. I am also also extremely embarrassed to see his name on our stadium wall because it represents the ultimate scum bag, murderer, thief and liar he is as a man. If you ask the average American what they think when they see his name on our wall when the cameras scan the stadium, I would guess the ladder.. It's bad for Buffalo and a bad example to the young people of WNY. His name should come down. I agree with the above, with the obvious exception to "the ladder", which has rungs, and.....well, you know. I have to tell a story. A number of years back, I was doing my chemical coatings salesman thing, returning home from a trip to a plant in Ontario. Of course, listening to WGR the whole time. They were discussing the change of name of the stadium from Rich to something else, and the discussion was what should the name be? Never having called into a radio show before, I blithely dialed up the number, and much to my surprise, I was put through immediately. No pre-discussion screening of what I wanted to say, etc. So I start in on how any city that can welcome back to town the wide right Bills with a mass gathering on the tarmac at the airport, and then blow up the gathering at City Hall the next day with chants of "Scotty, Scotty, Scotty" is, plain and simple, a community that knows what it means to 'do the right thing'. Then I suggested that a community such as ours should logically name the stadium after Nicole Brown Simpson. They hung up on me like I was oozing leprosy through the phone. Haven't called another radio station before or since, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) One of the all time great sports nicknames. Cant take that away from him. If they did take it down, id love to get ahold of those old letters. Id hang them up on my garage door. Edited January 9, 2015 by mastershake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 How come nobody wears their Simpson jerseys anymore? You'd think with all the fans he has in Buffalo, you'd still see them, at least once in a while. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) How come nobody wears their Simpson jerseys anymore? You'd think with all the fans he has in Buffalo, you'd still see them, at least once in a while. GO BILLS!!! I find it odd that people wear jerseys. Even odder that they have another man's name on the back, any name on it. I don't wear any jersey... Never even owned one. I guess it is a newer trend, jersey wearing. There were probably a few people back 40 years ago when OJ was playing for the Bills, but mostly 32's without the name. I always found jeresey wearing kinda weird. It doesn't take an aquitted man for me to shy away from his number and name. Maybe this is the problem w/the whole name thing bothering people... Way too much worship. It bleeds into what's on The Wall. I am a big "social message" guy, this is just one area where you can't stomp your feet and hold your breath till people get their way. To all the yes voters... Take up a petition, Change.org etc... And get the Pegulas to change it. I can respect the activism and the will of the owners and majority of fans whatever happens. It simply doesn't bother or embarass me. I am more embarassed that people are embarassed... Ha, if that makes sense. Edited January 9, 2015 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I find it odd that people wear jerseys. Even odder that they have another man's name on the back, any name on it. I don't wear any jersey... Never even owned one. I guess it is a newer trend, jersey wearing. There were probably a few people back 40 years ago when OJ was playing for the Bills, but mostly 32's without the name. I always found jeresey wearing kinda weird. It doesn't take an aquitted man for me to shy away from his number and name. Maybe this is the problem w/the whole name thing bothering people... Way too much worship. It bleeds into what's on The Wall. I am a big "social message" guy, this is just one area where you can't stomp your feet and hold your breath till people get their way. To all the yes voters... Take up a petition, Change.org etc... And get the Pegulas to change it. I can respect the activism and the will of the owners and majority of fans whatever happens. It simply doesn't bother or embarass me. I am more embarassed that people are embarassed... Ha, if that makes sense. I'm glad you caught the gist of my post. I just thought it was interesting to wonder if all the people that have no problems with his name on the wall would also have no problems with his name on their back. Guilty or not, the Wall of Fame honoring his football career or not, he's a pariah in society. GO BILLS!!! Edited January 9, 2015 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalftimeAdjustment Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) How come nobody wears their Simpson jerseys anymore? You'd think with all the fans he has in Buffalo, you'd still see them, at least once in a while. GO BILLS!!! You'd probably provoke a fight and might get thrown out by the Bills. Name on the wall or not. Oh on top of that the jerseys may be worth some money. Edited January 9, 2015 by HalftimeAdjustment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I have to agree. As a Buffalo sports fan, I recognize the argument from folks that think it should stay up. I really do. But it's a complete embarrassment when any non Bills fans see it in the stadium. I've fielded that question a bunch of times at games, and I, personally, do not say "well he was a great player." I just feel ashamed that it's up there with the real heroes on that wall. The real heroes on that wall are up there for the same reason Simpson's name is up on the wall; contributions to the organization. Kalsu and Mr. Wilson, as Veterans, are the only true Heroes on the wall. The rest are "heroes" to the Bills organization. No more. No less. What fans outside of Bills fans have to say about it is irrelevant. You'd probably provoke a fight and might get thrown out by the Bills. Name on the wall or not. Saw a couple #32's at the Vikings game. I always do. Edited January 9, 2015 by purple haze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalftimeAdjustment Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Saw a couple at the Vikings game. I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Personally, I say no. I'd even go so far as to give the #32 to some practice squad guy, or even someone on the 53. Just another number. Just another jersey. People can remember him on their own terms. No need to force it on others who don't want to. But you're trying to force your view on people who don't mind the name being on the wall, or care one way or the other. Ironic, no? Have you reached out to the the Bills Alumni Association with your desire? How about the media that covers the team? If you get those groups behind you, you might very well get what you want. Edited January 9, 2015 by purple haze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Saw a couple #32's at the Vikings game. I always do. With Simpson's name on the back? GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCBoozers Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 He did beat the daylights out of his wife many times before he was judged not guilty for her murder... he did a ray rice on her like 10 times over... Take it for what you want but he, self admittedly, beat the hell out of his wife for a long time. I'd take his name down for that, and have it nothing to do with the murder trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Changing history to meet people's sensitivities is a bad idea. The history on that wall: He was a Hell of a ball player, NOT he was a Hell of an upstanding citizen. Do we have to have a yearly review of everyone on the wall to make sure they meet community standards? Now, should we scour police records and news stories and remove anyone who ever hit his wife, snorted blow or said something politically incorrect? Further, he was found not guilty. The thing he was found guilty of was, I think, trying to steal his own freaking trophy back. COMMUNITY STANDARDS? it was shoplifting. it wasn't dui. it wasn't real estate fraud. he butchered 2 innocent people. good god. I agree with the above, with the obvious exception to "the ladder", which has rungs, and.....well, you know. I have to tell a story. A number of years back, I was doing my chemical coatings salesman thing, returning home from a trip to a plant in Ontario. Of course, listening to WGR the whole time. They were discussing the change of name of the stadium from Rich to something else, and the discussion was what should the name be? Never having called into a radio show before, I blithely dialed up the number, and much to my surprise, I was put through immediately. No pre-discussion screening of what I wanted to say, etc. So I start in on how any city that can welcome back to town the wide right Bills with a mass gathering on the tarmac at the airport, and then blow up the gathering at City Hall the next day with chants of "Scotty, Scotty, Scotty" is, plain and simple, a community that knows what it means to 'do the right thing'. Then I suggested that a community such as ours should logically name the stadium after Nicole Brown Simpson. They hung up on me like I was oozing leprosy through the phone. Haven't called another radio station before or since, right? brilliant! i bet you are a good salesman! Edited January 9, 2015 by jester43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 OJ is a scumbag and almost certainly a double murderer. He's not on the wall of fame for civic virtue; he's there because he is arguably the greatest Buffalo Bill of all time. Keep his name on the wall. You can't conveniently change history simply because you don't like someone. His football accomplishments are what they are, and they aren't changing. If you remove his name from the wall, take the whole wall down too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I celebrate honoring OJ. Yes, he killed those people. Even if he had been convicted, I would still want his name up there. Having his name up there does Not celebrate him now. It celebrates him for his time on this team where his name is. Other than Kelly, OJ is the best Bill ever. Ever. If a guy gets a Congressional Medal of Honor during a war, then 20 years later gets convicted of murder back here in the USA, do you take away his medal? (Hell Hell No). Everybody knows the story of OJ. But his name at the Ralph is not a lifetime achievement award. Its a football achievement award. I think this is a very cogent argument. I also disagree. If any of the victims' friends or families saw the Simpson name up there, I think they would be hurt to know we were glorifying a man who did so much evil in their lives. Sports franchises shouldn't be in the business of hurting innocent people, or glorifying monsters. But I don't think it's a good idea to un-retire #32 because I'd hate to have it assigned to some rookie. Yeah, eventually it would become 'just another number' but the first kid to wear that number would have the number of our greatest player and worst villain on his back. That's too much to carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 With Simpson's name on the back? GO BILLS!!! they are out there - incredibly rare, but out there. I think i see more todd collins jerseys. heck, you had the one vikings fan show up in her AD jersey with a switch. but outside a VERY small group, OJ is not represented like the other old time greats in the league, and there is obviously a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE Bills Fan Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 He deserves to be up there based on his on-field accomplishments which were legendary back when he played. The other stuff should not be considered in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 He deserves to be up there based on his on-field accomplishments which were legendary back when he played. The other stuff should not be considered in my opinion for those saying its football only, would there be any point where you reconsidered? if he was convicted? if it were an even worse crime? if he terribly bad mouthed the bills non-stop? what type of things might cross the line? or is there literally nothing possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I don't see how anyone could possibly vote to keep his name on the wall. It's like having a tattoo of Tom Brady on your ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 for those saying its football only, would there be any point where you reconsidered? if he was convicted? if it were an even worse crime? if he terribly bad mouthed the bills non-stop? what type of things might cross the line? or is there literally nothing possible? really! it's almost as though people are worrying about some sort of slippery-slope: "GEEZ, if we take is name down just because he murdered two people AFTER he played, then we're gonna have to scrutinize EVERYONE!" What if Lee Harvey Oswald had been a Bills DB who retired with the career interception record before he shot Kennedy? Would you want to see his name up there? What if Mark David Chapman was a perennial All-Pro Bills tight end and beloved team captain before he murdered John Lennon? Would you want to see his name up there? It's disgusting to me that what he did as a player could be more important to some Bills fans than those two people he slaughtered. Somehow because it's the Bills we want to forget what he did and just remember the good times. And I saw plenty his games in person. If you want to talk about what kind of player he was, I'll argue all day he was one of the 3 or 4 best of all time. But i don't want him honored in our stadium because he is a flat-out despicable sociopathic murderer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted William's frozen head Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Its embarrassing to have his name still up there. It doesn't matter what he accomplished when he played. He could have multiple MVPs and be solely responsible for a Super Bowl win and I'd still say pull it down. It makes the team/organization/community look like they're passively defending OJ as a person because he was a star athlete. We have plenty of other star athletes to celebrate that aren't connected to murder. For a Wall of "Fame", OJ Simpson is way more famous for being a criminal than a Buffalo Bill. In my opinion, removing his name is way, way, way overdue. Time to let it go. Take it down. Leave it up, but add some dried blood leaving trails beneath the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Many consider George Bush a terrible president who has cost us many lives. Do we say he should be removed from the list of those who succeeded (with some legalistic help) in becoming president? Of course not. Even an impeached president would remain on that list. Simpson is on the wall for what he accomplished as a Bill, not for what he did subsequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Many consider George Bush a terrible president who has cost us many lives. Do we say he should be removed from the list of those who succeeded (with some legalistic help) in becoming president? Of course not. Even an impeached president would remain on that list. Simpson is on the wall for what he accomplished as a Bill, not for what he did subsequently. Terrible analogy. GWB shouldn't be removed from a list of people who served as President any more than OJ should be excluded from a list of players who played for the Bills, set a rushing record, wore #32, etc. etc. The question is whether he should be SPECIALLY HONORED by the team. I say he's brought shame and dishonor to the franchise and should be taken down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 If we take OJ down, no more playing any Michael Jackson songs at the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Terrible analogy. GWB shouldn't be removed from a list of people who served as President any more than OJ should be excluded from a list of players who played for the Bills, set a rushing record, wore #32, etc. etc. The question is whether he should be SPECIALLY HONORED by the team. I say he's brought shame and dishonor to the franchise and should be taken down. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) If we take OJ down, no more playing any Michael Jackson songs at the games. Beat it. No one likes to be defeated. Edited January 9, 2015 by mastershake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 There is only one man that could have taken OJ's name down off that wall, and that's Ronald Reagan. If someone knows a necromancer, I would suggest you call them up. While you're at it, tell Nancy to have my bean pies ready when I see her. She ain't getting off that easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I don't see how anyone could possibly vote to keep his name on the wall. It's like having a tattoo of Tom Brady on your ass. oj is to brady, as stadium is to ass is this an answer to one of Terry's interview questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Leave it up, but add some dried blood leaving trails beneath the name. Too soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlamnSam Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 It continues to amaze me how people can trivialize a double-murder and put it into the "did a bad thing" category. I believe in separating sports from real life ... but for God's sake, you don't choose the sports accomplishments over the double murder. It's a societal flaw in which the importance of sports superiority trumps the importance of character. it's why when star high school athletes get caught doing things wrong - parents, teachers and administrators look the other way ... because winning is more important than teaching a life lesson. Winning is more important than doing the right thing. That is a problem. Hey gugny, is it a double murder if you didn't do it? Is it a double murder if you do it during a war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Hey gugny, is it a double murder if you didn't do it? Is it a double murder if you do it during a war? "I'd never done a crazy thing in my life before that night. Why is it that if a man kills another man in battle, it's called heroic, yet if he kills a man in the heat of passion, it's called murder?" -Glenn from Stan Mikita's Donuts, Wayne's World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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