C.Biscuit97 Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 If Hackett is gone next season, I'd like like to see him retained to see what someone else could do with him. If he stays, may as well cut him. He can blame his glass limbs for his in effectiveness IMO. Can't stay healthy, can't be effective. Funny how the guy with "fire chan" as his screen name defends a head coach the way he does. If chan was our OC, I believe we'd be in the playoffs. His offense was better with Donald jones and David Nelson out there. I agree with this so much. I'd love to see this team with Gailey as our OC. Has anyone actually seen anything creative at all with this offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Marrone's "messages" would be more effective if his methods were yielding results. I think it's pretty clear that Goodwin is being called out for not being tough enough. Otherwise, he's playing. Simple as that. If the team felt his injury woes were insurmountable he would have been waived by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Interesting use of quotations in a word I didn't use. Additionally, managing personalities and expectations is certainly part of being a coach. It's a lot of guys on the same side of the ball with similar sentiments is what I was getting at. When 4 out of about 20 guys on offense have situations and you've benched your qb a month in - it's a strange stretch for talent management. The post above yours said, "criminal management," or something similar. I must have confused them. Having a few of loudmouths and malcontents on offense doesn't mean anything to me. These guys are competitors who want to play, but have plenty of reasons why they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I doubt "Goodwin is as good as gone" as the thread title so definitively declares. He'll at least get a final chance later this season or in 2015 TC because he has had an impact whenever he's been on the field where defenses have to account for his speed. Too bad it hasn't been frequent enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 If Hackett is gone next season, I'd like like to see him retained to see what someone else could do with him. If he stays, may as well cut him. He can blame his glass limbs for his in effectiveness IMO. Can't stay healthy, can't be effective. Funny how the guy with "fire chan" as his screen name defends a head coach the way he does. If chan was our OC, I believe we'd be in the playoffs. His offense was better with Donald jones and David Nelson out there. Chan was garbage outside of Spiller. Romanticizing his era doesn't change that. I've learned to ignore him. It makes the board better. Sure you have. I have so much real estate in your head, I could get my own zip code. I agree with this so much. I'd love to see this team with Gailey as our OC. Has anyone actually seen anything creative at all with this offense? I thought the KC game had many creative plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Goodwin's speed alone should be utilized when healthy. The threat of the deep route will keep defenses honest, safeties out of the box, and open up the intermediate routes for Woods and Watkins. It's a shame that an OC can't adapt or have some plays in his game plan to utilize such speed even if in limited situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 yep, and you will see him go someplace with a competent QB and OC and flourish. The guy can play, he is a burner who needs to be running routes where his speed is utilized. and is too small for this league and can't stay healthy. Rarely finishes a game. Goodwin's speed alone should be utilized when healthy. The threat of the deep route will keep defenses honest, safeties out of the box, and open up the intermediate routes for Woods and Watkins. It's a shame that an OC can't adapt or have some plays in his game plan to utilize such speed even if in limited situations. Watkins has enough speed to "keep defenses honest"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) I agree with this so much. I'd love to see this team with Gailey as our OC. Has anyone actually seen anything creative at all with this offense? I would like to see them use more motion, particularly in the red zone. The offense is so creative that "PrimeTime" said during the Thursday night loss to the Dolphins that he knew what the Bills were going to do. and is too small for this league and can't stay healthy. Rarely finishes a game. Watkins has enough speed to "keep defenses honest"... Not Goodwin's speed and Watkins greatest attributes as a WR is his run after the catch, not fly routes. People like to look at others stature and say if their " big enough" or "too small". John Brown for the Cardinals is no bigger than Goodwin, but he's a baller. So too is Darren Sproles. You should only measure the size of a person heart, not their stature Edited November 28, 2014 by the skycap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Chan was garbage outside of Spiller. Romanticizing his era doesn't change that. SJ 3 1000 yard seasons. Fitz 26 TD passes. Statistically maybe Coach Gailey's weren't much better, but Coach Gailey had far less talent and a horrible D that couldn't get the ball back. SJ and CJ couldn't do jack for Hackett Jr. Did they forget how to play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Watkins has enough speed to "keep defenses honest"... Totally different issue. If they have to worry about Goodwins speed deep, which teams showed they did earlier in the year, they can't double Watkins which they do now or they leave the middle of the field wide open for Chandler, Woods, fred etc to exploit. That's what Whaley built in the off season to make the Bills offense tough to defend. And Marrone and Hackett haven't been doing it. I even asked Whaley specifically about it and he just smiled and said, diplomatically, "yep, that was the plan" or something just to that effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 SJ 3 1000 yard seasons. Fitz 26 TD passes. Statistically maybe Coach Gailey's weren't much better, but Coach Gailey had far less talent and a horrible D that couldn't get the ball back. SJ and CJ couldn't do jack for Hackett Jr. Did they forget how to play? Did Hackett sprain CJ's ankle for 8 weeks and pull SJ's groin all year? Also, Stevie was the only NFL WR on the roster in the Chan years. How's he producing in San Fran with competition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Totally different issue. If they have to worry about Goodwins speed deep, which teams showed they did earlier in the year, they can't double Watkins which they do now or they leave the middle of the field wide open for Chandler, Woods, fred etc to exploit. That's what Whaley built in the off season to make the Bills offense tough to defend. And Marrone and Hackett haven't been doing it. I even asked Whaley specifically about it and he just smiled and said, diplomatically, "yep, that was the plan" or something just to that effect. It's a pretty obvious direction he's dedicated resources and it's not where coaches are scheming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 goodwin, roscoe, graham, all soon to be followed by Sammy if he don't step out of his funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Nothing to see here. The guy gets injured just lifting his head off the pillow in the morning. Can't count on him to be out there any week. So it's pretty tough to add his skill set into the gameplan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted November 28, 2014 Author Share Posted November 28, 2014 goodwin, roscoe, graham, all soon to be followed by Sammy if he don't step out of his funk. one of these isn't like the others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I agree with this so much. I'd love to see this team with Gailey as our OC. Has anyone actually seen anything creative at all with this offense? 4th and less then 1 we punted with less then 2 minutes to go? I thought that was creative. You know, they will expect us to go for it so lets do what they don't expect!!! goodwin, roscoe, graham, all soon to be followed by Sammy if he don't step out of his funk. Roscoe? ha. 77 games, 1500+ yards. graham ...38 games, almost 800 yards goodwin. 18 games, 325 yards. Graham may finish with those numbers in his career but it is doubtful Goodwin does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Nothing to see here. The guy gets injured just lifting his head off the pillow in the morning. Can't count on him to be out there any week. So it's pretty tough to add his skill set into the gameplan. I think he is the second most talented WR on the team so IMO it's a big deal that he can't stay on the field. He has the potential to star in the NFL. His disappearance this year has had a negative impact on the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 There is a huge disconnect between the personnel people upstairs and the coaching staff. Goodwin drafted in the 3rd last year and doesn't play when healthy. Trade for Mike Williams, who, at best plays sparingly. Corey Graham was getting 4M per and wasn't seeing the field. And then there's guys like Kouandjio who flat out aren't good enough. The takeaway is it seems Marrone would rather lose with his guys than win with someone else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I think he is the second most talented WR on the team so IMO it's a big deal that he can't stay on the field. He has the potential to star in the NFL. His disappearance this year has had a negative impact on the offense. you honestly think he's more talented than Woods??? Williams??? Are you f%#king high???? I'd even say that Hogan has more talent than Goodwin. And I can't stand Hogan. Goodwin is fast. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I think he is the second most talented WR on the team so IMO it's a big deal that he can't stay on the field. He has the potential to star in the NFL. His disappearance this year has had a negative impact on the offense. So out of Sammy, Woods and Hogan...only one is better than...GOODWIN!? What in god's name are you basing this on?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 People like to look at others stature and say if their " big enough" or "too small". John Brown for the Cardinals is no bigger than Goodwin, but he's a baller. So too is Darren Sproles. You should only measure the size of a person heart, not their stature I am not sure it is about heart. Guys like Brown and Sproles take a lot of hits and bounce back. I was amazed at how Kerley was blown up by our guys and was fine. These guys are small but not injury prone. I am not sure why it's different with goodwin, but I don't think its a matter of just him having less heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I like Goodwin's potential a lot. Speed burner, underrated route runner, good hands. But c'mon, man, you can't stay healthy, of course the team is gonna look another way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted November 29, 2014 Author Share Posted November 29, 2014 (edited) There is a huge disconnect between the personnel people upstairs and the coaching staff. Goodwin drafted in the 3rd last year and doesn't play when healthy. Trade for Mike Williams, who, at best plays sparingly. Corey Graham was getting 4M per and wasn't seeing the field. And then there's guys like Kouandjio who flat out aren't good enough. The takeaway is it seems Marrone would rather lose with his guys than win with someone else's. he has a winning record He is involved in the drafting process. Goodwin and CK are "his guys." Graham was signed as a backup and for ST. Did you want him starting over McK? You got your wish, let's see how it goes. The trade for Williams was a 6th rd pick. The fact he's not playing a lot is likely not a huge disconnect. It may just be the player's fault that he isn't, however. Edited November 29, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Goodwin just isn't built for the NFL. It doesn't make him weak. It is just a sport that requires elite durability when compared to athletes from non-impact sport. These collisions are life altering experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Giving up on a guy with that sort of talent is stupid with a capital S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Giving up on a guy with that sort of talent is stupid with a capital S. what talent? His speed? There's plenty of speedy wide receivers in the league and college coming out that can not be fast but do it regularly becaise they don't get hurt just walking onto the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 what talent? His speed? There's plenty of speedy wide receivers in the league and college coming out that can not be fast but do it regularly becaise they don't get hurt just walking onto the field. I think you are being a touch dramatic here. The guy has some skills. How talented we may never know but he's played well for a young guy with limited experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Hackett doesn't know how to use the talent when he has it....seems like he is a ball control one trick pony.....not an all around o coordinator. I am thinking if Marrrone survives....Hackett should go......need a new O coordinator.....Hackett can'g get it going. Didn't know how to use CJ, and doens't really use the verticle threat game...even when he has his guys on the field. I am guessing the Bills have gone long fewer times than any other NFL team is year....somebody out there probabily knows how to do those stats, I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 yep, and you will see him go someplace with a competent QB and OC and flourish. The guy can play, he is a burner who needs to be running routes where his speed is utilized. Kind of like Moeoki ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 you honestly think he's more talented than Woods??? Williams??? Are you f%#king high???? I'd even say that Hogan has more talent than Goodwin. And I can't stand Hogan. Goodwin is fast. That's it. He has GREAT speed(and just as important, quickness) but he also has excellent hands, route running ability, ability to track the football and body control etc.. I've been very critical of his injury prone nature but he has a lot more ability than I anticipated when he was drafted. He should fit in that Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders category but it bears mentioning the Bills aren't the Steelers when it comes to the expectations placed on players by both the organization and their fellow teammates. I agree with the takes that he may not be able to hold up to NFL punishment but I also don't know if he is fully committed to being that kind of player and that may be the issue. I've seen a lack of want-to in his kick returns this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Chan was garbage outside of Spiller. Romanticizing his era doesn't change that. Sure you have. I have so much real estate in your head, I could get my own zip code. I thought the KC game had many creative plays. -Blah.... -Blah..... -one game out of 11. Well done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 -Blah.... -Blah..... -one game out of 11. Well done #Innovative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 -Blah.... -Blah..... -one game out of 11. Well done Who said it was the only one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Orton Of the top of my head, those are players that have gotten worse since last year or since Gailey left. Orton was not here so you are making up things for your crusade/witch hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Who said it was the only one? Biscuit writes: I agree with this so much. I'd love to see this team with Gailey as our OC. Has anyone actually seen anything creative at all with this offense? You write: I thought the KC game was creative. Cool beans brah. Way to prove a point. I can't recall another "creative" gameplan btw. "Cutting edge". "No huddle, fast paced". Blah blah blah. There is nothing innovative nor creative about our offense. Unless you'd call the 4th and 1 last week. Lol, what a joke. Way to prove a point. Sammy in the backfield with boobie as the up back. Innovative. The jets were scurred. Sigh. FireChan, you're now officially a one and done guy. One reply, then not worth anymore time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Goodwin has been used that much for defenses have found solution - rush and blitz the Offense line and QB will rarely get to be able to set enough to make the throws to Goodwin. The Bills tried many combinations in training camp believing they had enough OL talent just needed more practice and coaching. They were wrong. Pears and Urbik regressed and IMO it was because change in scheme and a poor OL coach; they should have kept Joe D who went to SD rather than firing entire staff. They believed the players they drafted had the talent to step up when needed and they were only correct with Seantrel Henderson and I blame that on the OL coach who helped evaluate players. The Bills depended too much on Chris Williams who earlier in career was successful and Bills seemed to think that think his back was better and appears to be misjudgement by Bills team doctor or deception by Chris Williams who reinjured his back the same way it has been injured in past. They key thing on this issue is without the offense line being able to hold on sufficient for five and seven step drops Goodwin is not very useful as WR and not durable yet as a return threat. The Bills have faced a lot of good pass rushing defenses this year and the offense has needed to be more 'find and throw to open receiver' then they planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 (edited) Biscuit writes: I agree with this so much. I'd love to see this team with Gailey as our OC. Has anyone actually seen anything creative at all with this offense? You write: I thought the KC game was creative. Cool beans brah. Way to prove a point. I can't recall another "creative" gameplan btw. "Cutting edge". "No huddle, fast paced". Blah blah blah. There is nothing innovative nor creative about our offense. Unless you'd call the 4th and 1 last week. Lol, what a joke. Way to prove a point. Sammy in the backfield with boobie as the up back. Innovative. The jets were scurred. Sigh. FireChan, you're now officially a one and done guy. One reply, then not worth anymore time. How else do you expect to prove points? Biscuit has been anti-Bills since week 2, I don't need to waste a paragraph proving his nonsense to be just that. What did you expect to be "innovative" on 4th and 1? Throw it? Screen pass? Direct snap to Sammy? I'd call all those plays, "trying to get cute," wouldn't you? What about a QB sneak? That wouldn't be innovative, would it? "Just give the ball to Boobie/Summers and get one yard, it's so easy," we'd all cry. "That's why they're here!" As The Big Cat pointed out so eloquently, "Why did Marrone call the play that the DT broke through a double team to make the tackle?" I think that just about sums it up. If a toss gets blown up in the backfield, we "tried to get cute." If we give a ball to our FB to get one yard, and he gets stuffed, we're "predictable." If we punt, Marrone's, "gutless." Ya'll need to change your tune at some point, there are valid criticisms on this coaching staff, but I swear, some of you pick the damnedest stuff to try to tear them down. And, as I've been a very active boardmember for the last two years, I can now pick out the discrepancies of most of the drivel. And I'll call them out on it until they shape up. Here's a perfect example. Biscuit screamed to the high heavens that Spiller was hurt all last year, and that's why he wasn't so effective and yada yada yada. I contended that Spiller just isn't all that good. Now, Biscuit is saying that Marrone/Hackett actually ruined CJ and that's why he hasn't been productive. Oh goody. In closing, you're probably better off being one-and-done with me. It wouldn't end well for you otherwise. Edited November 29, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Goodwin has that sprinter body which in nfl history doesn't work out real well, always hurt shows flashes hurt again and again. OC isnt getting him hurt and if you can't be counted on ...sorry your out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 yep, and you will see him go someplace with a competent QB and OC and flourish. The guy can play, he is a burner who needs to be running routes where his speed is utilized. eh' too many injuries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I think you are being a touch dramatic here. The guy has some skills. How talented we may never know but he's played well for a young guy with limited experience your batchit crazy if you really think he's any good. He's nothing more than a gimmick player. Just like CJ Spiller. Can't healthy to save his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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