Goodwin is good as gone

[YoloinOhio]

Much has been speculated that Goodwin is on the outs with the coaching staff after being injury prone, then a healthy scratch last week, and on scout team this week. Then they signed Thigpen, who Marrone said will be on return duty as soon as he is ready. Rodak likely fishing for quotes, but here it is --

 

@mikerodak: Marquise Goodwin: “I don't practice hard just to be an inactive. But it is what it is. If I don't fit the game plan, I just don’t."

 

I don't think they get rid of him before next season unless they can package him in a trade in the offseason, since he doesn't cost much. But don't see him making the active roster next year.

[atlbillsfan1975]

yep, and you will see him go someplace with a competent QB and OC and flourish.

The guy can play, he is a burner who needs to be running routes where his speed is utilized.

[Deranged Rhino]

Much has been speculated that Goodwin is on the outs with the coaching staff after being injury prone, then a healthy scratch last week, and on scout team this week. Then they signed Thigpen, who Marrone said will be on return duty as soon as he is ready. Rodak likely fishing for quotes, but here it is --

 

@mikerodak: Marquise Goodwin: "I don't practice hard just to be an inactive. But it is what it is. If I don't fit the game plan, I just don't."

 

I don't think they get rid of him before next season unless they can package him in a trade in the offseason, since he doesn't cost much. But don't see him making the active roster next year.

 

The borderline criminal deployment, or lack there of, of both Goodwin and Williams will be the thing I remember most about Hackett and the '14 season... well, besides the ownership change I guess. It's absolutely ridiculous to keep two guys who add much needed dimensions to the offense on the sideline as much as Hackett has with these two.

[reddogblitz]

Goodwin is the modern day Roscoe Parrish. Great when healthy, whenever that is.

[Codyny13]

I totally agree that Goodwin can play and can be a game changer w the deep ball. When healthy I've screamed at the bills to throw his way, as he has great hands, nm his speed. The problem is he's never healthy, and can never finish games. Tough to remove a player off the game day 46 for someone seemingly injury prone week in and week out. I do love the dude but it's obvious marrone has grown tired of his unavailability, and frankly I don't blame him.

[filthymcnasty08]

Really would like to see him with a new OC here next year.

 

#Canthackettinthenfl

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

The borderline criminal deployment, or lack there of, of both Goodwin and Williams will be the thing I remember most about Hackett and the '14 season... well, besides the ownership change I guess. It's absolutely ridiculous to keep two guys who add much needed dimensions to the offense on the sideline as much as Hackett has with these two.

Hogan for that matter, too. I will give him the fact that he is better than I thought, and he has produced to some degree, but he constantly is 1-2 yards short on his patterns on third downs which is infuriating. He still drops balls. He has had maybe two good games. The misuse of TE and WR and OG (and RB to some degree) is the defining characteristic IMO of this offense.

 

Goodwin has been a disappointment with how often he has been hurt. No question. But when he is healthy he needs to play.

 

We don't need to be great. I'm not asking for that. But good coaches put their players in the best positions to succeed, and mask their weaknesses, unless they are innovative guru types like Chip Kelly who can plug and play guys. Marrone and Hackett are not that.

[YoloinOhio]

I really like Goodwin's potential but he isn't available enough for the Bills to really put him in the game plan at this point. He truly does have a new injury every week. I'm sure be practices hard, but he just doesn't practice enough. The nfl is a tough business.

 

It has to be frustrating for the coaching staff to game plan never knowing if he'll be able to play.

Edited November 28, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[NoSaint]

its been a lot of offensive guys that are making these comments this year -- bryce brown, mike williams, goodwin, and im not sure if he did but urbik wouldve been justified

 

I posted this in the thigpen thread - but might see more traction here

So are we now off the boat for both Goodwin and Williams leaving sammy, bob woods and hogan as our 3 true receivers (assuming Easley and this guy end up active)?

 

If so we've used 2 firsts, a second, a third, a fourth, and a sixth in the last 18 months and another third the year before and may only have two guys active Sunday to show for it? (And all the guys are healthy)

 

its been an odd stretch for managing offensive talent.

[Big C]

I really like Goodwin's potential but he isn't available enough for the Bills to really put him in the game plan at this point. He truly does have a new injury every week. I'm sure be practices hard, but he just doesn't practice enough. The nfl is a tough business.

 

It has to be frustrating for the coaching staff to game plan never knowing if he'll be able to play.

 

Right, we game plan with Goodwin who then gets hurt returning the opening kickoff. Can't keep having that happen. It's unfortunate that we whiffed on two guys for that role in Graham and Goodwin. One for lack of ability, one for lack of health.

 

 

its been an odd stretch for managing offensive talent.

 

No doubt.

[FireChan]

 

 

The borderline criminal deployment, or lack there of, of both Goodwin and Williams will be the thing I remember most about Hackett and the '14 season... well, besides the ownership change I guess. It's absolutely ridiculous to keep two guys who add much needed dimensions to the offense on the sideline as much as Hackett has with these two.

 

Activate Goodwin, gets hurt his first snap for the 3rd time this season, then not activating him is criminal? He can't stay on the field. He's a waste of a spot.

 

its been a lot of offensive guys that are making these comments this year -- bryce brown, mike williams, goodwin, and im not sure if he did but urbik wouldve been justified

 

I posted this in the thigpen thread - but might see more traction here

 

 

its been an odd stretch for managing offensive talent.

 

Bryce Brown, Mike Williams, and Goodwin are the 3rd or 4th best option at their position. Not sure how them not playing is a "mismanagement."

[Deranged Rhino]

Activate Goodwin, gets hurt his first snap for the 3rd time this season, then not activating him is criminal? He can't stay on the field. He's a waste of a spot.

 

That's not true. He's been bit by the injury bug, no question. But the guy was a healthy scratch last week -- and times he's been active he's been on the field less than a dozen times. He didn't leave all those games injured. Even if you look at his season last year, his injuries were flukes (broken hand on a return).

 

Lee Smith and Gay are wastes of a spot. They're both excellent at doing the exact opposite of what they're paid to do.

[jr1]

Williams and Goodwin will jump Hogan in the showers

[FireChan]

 

 

That's not true. He's been bit by the injury bug, no question. But the guy was a healthy scratch last week -- and times he's been active he's been on the field less than a dozen times. He didn't leave all those games injured. Even if you look at his season last year, his injuries were flukes (broken hand on a return).

 

Lee Smith and Gay are wastes of a spot. They're both excellent at doing the exact opposite of what they're paid to do.

 

Lee Smith has more TD's and catches than Goodwin.

[C.Biscuit97]

I don't trust this offensive coaching staff evaluating any player. But Goodwin can't stay healthy. As terrible as Marrone and Hackett are at getting the most out of offensive talent, it's Goodwin's body that is letting him down.

[Deranged Rhino]

Lee Smith has more TD's and catches than Goodwin.

 

Because he's on the field for 95% of the offensive snaps compared to Goodwin's 1%. And I could have caught that one TD pass Smith has, even five beers in with no pads or gloves -- had St. Doug pointed into the stands and gone, "We need you!" the play would have ended up the same.

[FireChan]

 

 

Because he's on the field for 95% of the offensive snaps compared to Goodwin's 1%. And I could have caught that one TD pass Smith has, even five beers in with no pads or gloves -- had St. Doug pointed into the stands and gone, "We need you!" the play would have ended up the same.

 

The best ability is availability. I know you know that.

[Deranged Rhino]

The best ability is availability. I know you know that.

 

Absolutely. But how many games has he missed due to injury vs being a victim of Hackett's scheme? I think it's 50/50 at worst. And to me, that's an issue.

[26CornerBlitz]

As much as Goodwin has the potential to be an outstanding football player, it's rendered irrelevant because he simply cannot remain healthy enough to stay on the field. Availability, or lack thereof in his particular case, is a major impediment to his development and contribution to the team. The name Glass Goodwin is unfortunately well deserved at this juncture and it seems the coaches don't trust him enough to put him in the lineup with his demonstrated lack of durability. It's a shame, especially since he seems like such a well intentioned and goodhearted guy.

 

From the other thread where Goodwin was being discussed.

[skibum]

What has Goodwin done to show that he's such a valuable player? He has had a couple of big plays, but 18 catches for 325 yards in nearly two seasons is not a lot of production. A great guy, and a tremendous athlete, but other receivers offer a lot more value to the position for that level of production.

[The Big Cat]

Bills fans are uncannily talented at evaluating the things they do not see.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

What has Goodwin done to show that he's such a valuable player? He has had a couple of big plays, but 18 catches for 325 yards in nearly two seasons is not a lot of production. A great guy, and a tremendous athlete, but other receivers offer a lot more value to the position for that level of production.

 

I think one game where he really showed his potential was against the jets last year. He operated from the slot mostly; caught 9 balls for 81 yards; and had a carry for 17 yards. I remember him making an acrobatic leaping catch and a deep catch too.

 

I think he also got carted off the field at the end of that game.

[FireChan]

 

 

Absolutely. But how many games has he missed due to injury vs being a victim of Hackett's scheme? I think it's 50/50 at worst. And to me, that's an issue.

 

50/50 is way too generous. Still, you don't deserve the chance to prove yourself if you miss half the season.

[Freddie's Dead]

How can we fault Marrone for not playing Glass Goodwin? Dude is the new Roscoe, can't stay healthy, but when he is, look out. The problem is that waiting around for him costs the Bills productivity elsewhere. Like Merriman, the Bills waited too long to pull the trigger on 'scoe. I like the new decisiveness, cutting or not playing marginal players like Moeaki and Goodwin.

[Fan in Chicago]

I don't trust this offensive coaching staff evaluating any player. But Goodwin can't stay healthy. As terrible as Marrone and Hackett are at getting the most out of offensive talent, it's Goodwin's body that is letting him down.

 

I know this knock on evaluation of O talent has taken a life of its own on this message board. But save for Urbik, is there one positive proof that this is true ? We had a lot of new personnel on the OL. Tinkering in the pre-season and early games is to be expected. That Richardson would be bad at the LG spot was not a known fact but I am wiling to grant that marrone should have evaluated that better. But who else ? Williams and Goodwin ? Our OL had not afforded a lot of pass protection so it did not give Goodwin time to gain separation and go downfield before the QB had to make a play. And that is in games he has been healthy. Williams just is invisible on the field.

If there is one thing that Orton does well, it is spreading the ball around. He routinely hits 6-8 receivers in the first half. So, there is little chance that Williams and Goodwin are roaming around freely.

 

So, I am still waiting for compelling evidence of this so called Offensive ineptness on Marrone's part.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

I know this knock on evaluation of O talent has taken a life of its own on this message board. But save for Urbik, is there one positive proof that this is true ? We had a lot of new personnel on the OL. Tinkering in the pre-season and early games is to be expected. That Richardson would be bad at the LG spot was not a known fact but I am wiling to grant that marrone should have evaluated that better. But who else ? Williams and Goodwin ? Our OL had not afforded a lot of pass protection so it did not give Goodwin time to gain separation and go downfield before the QB had to make a play. And that is in games he has been healthy. Williams just is invisible on the field.

If there is one thing that Orton does well, it is spreading the ball around. He routinely hits 6-8 receivers in the first half. So, there is little chance that Williams and Goodwin are roaming around freely.

 

So, I am still waiting for compelling evidence of this so called Offensive ineptness on Marrone's part.

 

Manuel

Mike Williams

Spiller

Eric wood

Glenn

Orton

 

Of the top of my head, those are players that have gotten worse since last year or since Gailey left.

[BuffaninATL]

Hogan for that matter, too. I will give him the fact that he is better than I thought, and he has produced to some degree, but he constantly is 1-2 yards short on his patterns on third downs which is infuriating. He still drops balls. He has had maybe two good games. The misuse of TE and WR and OG (and RB to some degree) is the defining characteristic IMO of this offense.

 

Goodwin has been a disappointment with how often he has been hurt. No question. But when he is healthy he needs to play.

 

We don't need to be great. I'm not asking for that. But good coaches put their players in the best positions to succeed, and mask their weaknesses, unless they are innovative guru types like Chip Kelly who can plug and play guys. Marrone and Hackett are not that.

 

not sure if the TE and OG positions have been misused in this offense, as you state. I would call it as lack of talent at the 2 positions, unless your point might be that Urbik should have played alot sooner (we don't know what got him into Marrone's doghouse.) Chandler is Chandler, we know we have with him and what we don't have. Not sure if we have seen enough of Gragg to render a judgment. An athletic, fast, hybrid-type TE needs to be a priority in the draft. Hopefully Richardson pans out at one OG spot and we soon find a replacement for Pears.

[boyst]

yep, and you will see him go someplace with a competent QB and OC and flourish.

The guy can play, he is a burner who needs to be running routes where his speed is utilized.

just like TJ Graham, right?

 

or Kamar Aiken?

 

or...whats your point exactly? Goodwin is a liability for his injuries and if he isn't needed on game day, so be it. Much like Spiller, he has a cost and I don't know if I want to pay it... but I am not going to say I don't want him on my team.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

not sure if the TE and OG positions have been misused in this offense, as you state. I would call it as lack of talent at the 2 positions, unless your point might be that Urbik should have played alot sooner (we don't know what got him into Marrone's doghouse.) Chandler is Chandler, we know we have with him and what we don't have. Not sure if we have seen enough of Gragg to render a judgment. An athletic, fast, hybrid-type TE needs to be a priority in the draft. Hopefully Richardson pans out at one OG spot and we soon find a replacement for Pears.

I was referring to playing Pears and Richardson ahead of Urbik, as well as playing Smith and Gragg instead of Williams, hogan and Goodwin, and not the fact we have less than talented players at these positions. It's precisely the fact that they are inferior and yet our coaches still play them which is the problem. The GM can only fill so many holes at a time.

[boyst]

its been a lot of offensive guys that are making these comments this year -- bryce brown, mike williams, goodwin, and im not sure if he did but urbik wouldve been justified

 

I posted this in the thigpen thread - but might see more traction here

 

 

its been an odd stretch for managing offensive talent.

they're coming from Mike Rodhack. That's the source for all of this. How come no one else is really talking about it? Where is the local media?

 

In the past you could say it is national media trumping the local media but this is simply Rodhack.

[26CornerBlitz]

they're coming from Mike Rodhack. That's the source for all of this. How come no one else is really talking about it? Where is the local media?

 

In the past you could say it is national media trumping the local media but this is simply Rodhack.

 

[norton20]

_{I'm not thrilled with Goodwin getting hurt as much as he does either. That said, if he goes and Spiller goes too, those are 2 of the fastest players in the league that would be leaving. It is infuriating that the OC cannot figure out a way to incorporate those types of talents into this system. Teams die to get players with break away speed and yet we likely will be casting them out. Poor O Line play and inept coordination have been huge problems this year.}

[YoloinOhio]

_{I'm not thrilled with Goodwin getting hurt as much as he does either. That said, if he goes and Spiller goes too, those are 2 of the fastest players in the league that would be leaving. It is infuriating that the OC cannot figure out a way to incorporate those types of talents into this system. Teams die to get players with break away speed and yet we likely will be casting them out. Poor O Line play and inept coordination have been huge problems this year.}

while this is true, and I do like both of these players so don't take this as bashing... But pure speed like that Is available every year in the draft. But they need to be able to play smart, tough, football too in addition to running a 40.

[C.Biscuit97]

while this is true, and I do like both of these players so don't take this as bashing... But pure speed like that Is available every year in the draft. But they need to be able to play smart, tough, football too in addition to running a 40.

 

I don't really care that much about Goodwin but Hackett use of Spiller was beyond awful. We throw more passes to Brown than we ever did to Spiller and Brown has been a huge disappointment.

 

I still think there aren't many players like Spiller in this league and Hackett wasted him. You can always find another Goodwin.

[NewEra]

 

 

Activate Goodwin, gets hurt his first snap for the 3rd time this season, then not activating him is criminal? He can't stay on the field. He's a waste of a spot.

 

 

 

Bryce Brown, Mike Williams, and Goodwin are the 3rd or 4th best option at their position. Not sure how them not playing is a "mismanagement."

Its arguable that mike Williams is better than Chris hogan. I'd rather see him out there then hogan. We'll never know if its mismanagement because we'll never see how he could've done with orton throwing him the ball. But Marrone knows all, so it can't be mismanagement......he's always right.

[NoSaint]

Bryce Brown, Mike Williams, and Goodwin are the 3rd or 4th best option at their position. Not sure how them not playing is a "mismanagement."

 

Interesting use of quotations in a word I didn't use. Additionally, managing personalities and expectations is certainly part of being a coach. It's a lot of guys on the same side of the ball with similar sentiments is what I was getting at. When 4 out of about 20 guys on offense have situations and you've benched your qb a month in - it's a strange stretch for talent management.

Edited November 28, 2014 by NoSaint

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

Interesting use of quotations in a word I didn't use. Additionally, managing personalities and expectations is certainly part of being a coach. It's a lot of guys on the same side of the ball with similar sentiments.

 

I've learned to ignore him. It makes the board better.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

I don't really care that much about Goodwin but Hackett use of Spiller was beyond awful. We throw more passes to Brown than we ever did to Spiller and Brown has been a huge disappointment.

 

I still think there aren't many players like Spiller in this league and Hackett wasted him. You can always find another Goodwin.

speaking of replacing Goodwin I hope the Bills take a look at Devin Smith from Ohio State. He runs a sub 4.3, makes outstanding catches, and is one of the best ST players in the country. He's also a 4 yr starter and is used to playing in the cold, snow, etc. he won't be hyped because he played with Miller for 3 yrs who didn't throw much, but he's a very good talent to be had in the mid rounds.

[NewEra]

If Hackett is gone next season, I'd like like to see him retained to see what someone else could do with him. If he stays, may as well cut him. He can blame his glass limbs for his in effectiveness IMO. Can't stay healthy, can't be effective.

 

 

 

I've learned to ignore him. It makes the board better.

 

Funny how the guy with "fire chan" as his screen name defends a head coach the way he does. If chan was our OC, I believe we'd be in the playoffs. His offense was better with Donald jones and David Nelson out there.

[smuvtalker]

I know that Goodwin has had enough injuries to make even the casual Bills fan question his durability, but then throwing Mike Williams to the mix, I am still befuddled at their lack of playing time. I'm sorry, but I just can't understand why or what they've done to validate the reason for them being healthy scratches, Williams in particular.