A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[Fixxxer]

I hope Marrone realizes that if he puts ego aside he could have long career in Buffalo, he just needs to replace the OC for a veteran or innovative playcaller and re-shuffle his current frankestein OL.

[Bill from NYC]

 

Robert Woods is plenty tough, runs better patterns, has better hands, is a better blocker, and a ton more experience at the WR in and out of the slot position. He should be there and Mike Williams should be on the outside.

I have always been a fan of Woods and still am. But the possibility does exist that Hogan gets open more than Woods. Notice that I said possibility in lieu of undisputed truth. But if I was pinned down I still think that Woods is a better all around wide out.

That said, we need players such as Hogan.

[Kelly the Dog]

I hope Marrone realizes that if he puts ego aside he could have long career in Buffalo, he just needs to replace the OC for a veteran or innovative playcaller and re-shuffle his current frankestein OL.

There are only a couple coaches in the NFL on either side of the ball where they are so good, and have a terrific system, that for the most part they can plug and play guys into it. They still desperately need a few key players to be able to play in it, but they are very good themselves. Bellicheat is one, on defense. Chip Kelly maybe.

 

Doug Marrone is not one of them.

 

All other coaches, need to put the players they have into the best positions to make the kinds of plays they are capable of making. Marrone and Hackett are forcing their system on a team of players whose talents are mostly the opposite of what they are doing, and it's killing the team.

 

I have always been a fan of Woods and still am. But the possibility does exist that Hogan gets open more than Woods. Notice that I said possibility in lieu of undisputed truth. But if I was pinned down I still think that Woods is a better all around wide out.

That said, we need players such as Hogan.

Hogan is a good #5 WR. This team should play 3 WR, all of which start with the letter W (and Goodwin when he is not hurt), one TE and one RB. Spread the field out. Let the veteran QB scan the field pre-snap. Stop teams from putting 8-9 in the box. Give Orton hot reads with good veteran WRs and Chandler. Get Fred, CJ, and now Bryce Brown out in the open. Get guys that have no business being on the field like Lee Smith off the field. And we wouldn't be in the position late in the game we were in.

[BmarvB]

 

7) I cannot stress enough how much I appreciate how tough Orton is. Seriously, he is a throwback. But when he is forced out of the pocket, it really does suck, no?

 

8) Hackett too was like a knife in my ribcage today. The handoffs up the middle to a seemingly gassed Dixon on first and second down were tough to take, no?

 

 

 

I was thinking the same things. Orton looks so bad on the run, Dixon was clearly gassed, and Hackett's playcalling is so insanely predictable at times

[truth on hold]

 

I have always been a fan of Woods and still am. But the possibility does exist that Hogan gets open more than Woods. Notice that I said possibility in lieu of undisputed truth. But if I was pinned down I still think that Woods is a better all around wide out.

That said, we need players such as Hogan.

Thats what i posted a few weeks ago on woods and of course got attacked for it. Overall he's of course the more dynamic athlete, but he lacks some upper body strength to shed jams at the line. A more clear comparison would be with Sammy, he's got a powerful upper body and consistently brushes off jams and hand checks. Just look at the last first down he made on the final drive and you'll see what I mean.

[Bill from NYC]

Hogan is a good #5 WR.

I sense that you underestimate how important it is for a receiver to actually get open.

 

Watkins looks like a star, no? He doesn't have exceptional size nor speed. But he is quick, has GREAT hands, and gets OPEN! SJ got open too, but his hands were shaky.

 

Hogan plays special teams and can actually shake his defender. I wouldn't take him so lightly. Jmo.

[Kelly the Dog]

I sense that you underestimate how important it is for a receiver to actually get open.

 

Watkins looks like a star, no? He doesn't have exceptional size nor speed. But he is quick, has GREAT hands, and gets OPEN! SJ got open too, but his hands were shaky.

 

Hogan plays special teams and can actually shake his defender. I wouldn't take him so lightly. Jmo.

I don't either. Robert Woods has been doing it his whole life. So has Williams. They have done it in college and in the NFL consistently. They should be playing. Whaley built a team with certain kinds of players for a reason. His coach is blowing it.

 

Hogan made a great play today that was dramatic and was a huge part of the win. I'm happy for him and the team. He should be a role player, and IMO his presence on the field is why we were in that position in the first place. Not that he is causing it, but rather that we have better players on the bench, and if they were playing and doing what they have proven again and again they can do, we would have a much, much, much better offense despite our OL problems.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

The intential grounding call was hideous. Brady does this all the time and we get called and lose 10 precious seconds

[filthymcnasty08]

I was thinking the same things. Orton looks so bad on the run, Dixon was clearly gassed, and Hackett's playcalling is so insanely predictable at times

 

Orton was never advertised as anything remotely mobile. He is what he is….tough, fiery and he delivers that ball…I'll take him with his faults. If we can cure the OL, he will be 300 yards 2TD's and probably 1 INT week in/out. That can get this team to the playoffs.

[Beerball]

Surprisingly (to me) poor play by Glenn today. Don't know whether he's looking inside to try to help or what, but, he was soundly beaten more than a few times today.

 

What gives O-line gurus?

[26CornerBlitz]

Surprisingly (to me) poor play by Glenn today. Don't know whether he's looking inside to try to help or what, but, he was soundly beaten more than a few times today.

 

What gives O-line gurus?

 

@VikingsPR

Vikings DE Everson Griffen ties a career-high with his third sack of the day (vs. Green Bay, 12/30/12).

 

This does not bode well for the task of facing the NYJ DL next week.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Great points Bill.

 

Does it seem to anyone else that Robey has taken a step backwards this year?

That long pass play Robey got beat on was one last year he probably picks the ball off...not sure what is going on with him but hope the kid starts looking better.

[Beerball]

@VikingsPR

Vikings DE Everson Griffen ties a career-high with his third sack of the day (vs. Green Bay, 12/30/12).

 

This does not bode well for the task of facing the NYJ DL next week.

I watched him get run over and run around. Perplexed.

[HurlyBurly51]

Probably just me, but when Sammy grabbed that game winning TD I was sure the clock should have run out. I silently thought to myself if that had been incomplete they wouldn't have left a second on the clock giving us another shot. Just some silly musings as I soak up the win!

[atlbillsfan1975]

There are only a couple coaches in the NFL on either side of the ball where they are so good, and have a terrific system, that for the most part they can plug and play guys into it. They still desperately need a few key players to be able to play in it, but they are very good themselves. Bellicheat is one, on defense. Chip Kelly maybe.

 

Doug Marrone is not one of them.

 

All other coaches, need to put the players they have into the best positions to make the kinds of plays they are capable of making. Marrone and Hackett are forcing their system on a team of players whose talents are mostly the opposite of what they are doing, and it's killing the team.

 

 

Hogan is a good #5 WR. This team should play 3 WR, all of which start with the letter W (and Goodwin when he is not hurt), one TE and one RB. Spread the field out. Let the veteran QB scan the field pre-snap. Stop teams from putting 8-9 in the box. Give Orton hot reads with good veteran WRs and Chandler. Get Fred, CJ, and now Bryce Brown out in the open. Get guys that have no business being on the field like Lee Smith off the field. And we wouldn't be in the position late in the game we were in.

Kelly,

i think you are giving them too much credit. Marrone and Hackett have no system except to run the ball up the gut at least once every three downs.

Other than that the dynamic dbags have no clue what to call. IF a play works they run it over and over till it gets stopped for three times, ala the throw to the RB in the flat.

[Gray Beard]

How did the linebackers do today?

I saw Preston Brown blow up a screen play. I find it interesting that he's a rookie with the most snaps of all the Bills LBs this season.

I saw a running back look at Spikes and dive to the ground.

Anything else?

[TPS]

 

 

@VikingsPR

Vikings DE Everson Griffen ties a career-high with his third sack of the day (vs. Green Bay, 12/30/12).

 

This does not bode well for the task of facing the NYJ DL next week.

no way they can beat the Jets playing like today. They got dam lucky, but you need luck in this age of parity.

They will need some more next week. They have to be 5-3 going into the bye in order to have a chance for the post season.

[RuntheDamnBall]

There are only a couple coaches in the NFL on either side of the ball where they are so good, and have a terrific system, that for the most part they can plug and play guys into it. They still desperately need a few key players to be able to play in it, but they are very good themselves. Bellicheat is one, on defense. Chip Kelly maybe.

 

Doug Marrone is not one of them.

 

All other coaches, need to put the players they have into the best positions to make the kinds of plays they are capable of making. Marrone and Hackett are forcing their system on a team of players whose talents are mostly the opposite of what they are doing, and it's killing the team.

 

 

Hogan is a good #5 WR. This team should play 3 WR, all of which start with the letter W (and Goodwin when he is not hurt), one TE and one RB. Spread the field out. Let the veteran QB scan the field pre-snap. Stop teams from putting 8-9 in the box. Give Orton hot reads with good veteran WRs and Chandler. Get Fred, CJ, and now Bryce Brown out in the open. Get guys that have no business being on the field like Lee Smith off the field. And we wouldn't be in the position late in the game we were in.

And this is why it gets really tiring to hear about how awesome this skin-of-the-teeth win was. This team should be much more dominant, and that should be what we all want. I realize that the "little engine that could" or "underrated journeyman" narrative has a lot of cachet around here and in Buffalo generally, but give me a break. I want to see the kind of excellence we saw in the late 80s and early 90s. The Jauron-ball wins against lousy teams are not that inspiring to me. They are all part of a tease act and we know how this storyline usually plays out for Buffalo. I hope I'm wrong, but this coaching staff pulls out too many head-scratchers for me to believe otherwise.

[Lofton80]

I thought Jerry Hughes played tremendous today, his best game as a Bill. Dareus was double teamed quite a bit, a testament to his level of play. I am amazed how much cushion Gilmour gives, practically gave away a few first down throws.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I thought Jerry Hughes played tremendous today, his best game as a Bill. Dareus was double teamed quite a bit, a testament to his level of play.

Hughes and Dareus are incredibly valuable to this team. I hope the FO is smart enough to keep them here for a while.

I am amazed how much cushion Gilmour gives, practically gave away a few first down throws.

That's how we train them up in Buffalo. It's been that way for years. It's part of their manifesto: "How to get shredded by the screen and learn to love losing."

[boyst]

Did anyone key in on Mario Williams? I didn't hear his name as much as Hughes or Dareus, which is fine by me.

I am just looking for any educated and honest opinions on what he had going on today?

 

He seems to hold down his side of the fort solely without letting others have to assist.

[Uncle Joe]

 

What I did not like

- Penalties (This is a ill-disciplined team)

 

And it is even starting to effect the fans

[RuntheDamnBall]

Did anyone key in on Mario Williams? I didn't hear his name as much as Hughes or Dareus, which is fine by me.

I am just looking for any educated and honest opinions on what he had going on today?

 

He seems to hold down his side of the fort solely without letting others have to assist.

It's long been my opinion that he opens up plays for the other DLmen, but I didn't see enough today to back that up, for today's game.

[Garion]

another thought on Bill's point on Manuel. I thought it was a good sign that when spiller was injured it was Manuel and I think Woods who were there with him. Doesn't make him a better player but I think that helps with leadership.

Edited October 20, 2014 by gjnoronh

[mead107]

Bill, # 3. Always go after the play maker. Everyone would have bitched if we did not make a move and get Watkins

[bigK14094]

Good Summary! I also think the Bills coaching was poor today. It was obvious that Dixon was not a factor when flanked out, yet those plays were called. It was time to go with 4 wideouts who knew how to play out there.

Yes, and the play(s) where they ran Boobie wide were wasted as well. Hackett doesn't know how to adjust on the fly, off script and he is in trouble. He kept calling the Fredex plays, even when it was Boobie in there. Boobie is downhill all the way, with power. The TV announcers were even onto this strange play calling wit Boobie carrying.

[truth on hold]

Did anyone key in on Mario Williams? I didn't hear his name as much as Hughes or Dareus, which is fine by me.

I am just looking for any educated and honest opinions on what he had going on today?

 

He seems to hold down his side of the fort solely without letting others have to assist.

Was wondering too, hard to really see on TV but my senss is hes still doing a good job covering his side of the field. But they're using the smaller and faster Hughes to take more advantage of the penetration dareus is getting with stunts

[Deranged Rhino]

Did anyone key in on Mario Williams? I didn't hear his name as much as Hughes or Dareus, which is fine by me.

I am just looking for any educated and honest opinions on what he had going on today?

 

He seems to hold down his side of the fort solely without letting others have to assist.

 

He played a great game. The big runs all went away from him, he had constant pressure and one sack that was all athleticism, wingspan, and hand-strength.

[DC Greg]

Here's another observation... did anyone else notice the entire offensive series (it was a three and out) where Orton didn't snap his chinstrap... for 3 straight plays??? How do the refs not notice that? So dangerous! He so lucky he didn't get sacked on those plays. That bonnet woulda popped right off.

[Chilly]

The only explanation is that we were scared of Cordell Patterson. Marrone in his press conference almost sounded surprised that we called that. It was dumb, for sure.

 

Sal Maiorana tweeted at one point that the wind was crazy at that end of the field during that time, and no kicker was going to get close to the end zone. Hence, the Bills squibbed it instead of risking a short kick / setup.

 

Hogan is a good #5 WR. This team should play 3 WR, all of which start with the letter W (and Goodwin when he is not hurt), one TE and one RB. Spread the field out. Let the veteran QB scan the field pre-snap. Stop teams from putting 8-9 in the box. Give Orton hot reads with good veteran WRs and Chandler. Get Fred, CJ, and now Bryce Brown out in the open. Get guys that have no business being on the field like Lee Smith off the field. And we wouldn't be in the position late in the game we were in.

 

So.... hire Chan Gailey back as OC?

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

Sal Maiorana tweeted at one point that the wind was crazy at that end of the field during that time, and no kicker was going to get close to the end zone. Hence, the Bills squibbed it instead of risking a short kick / setup.

 

 

 

So.... hire Chan Gailey back as OC?

No. But he would be better than what we have. A high school coach would know to spread the field with the talent we have and the talent we don't have.

[thewildrabbit]

I think what a lot of fans don't see is Orton's veteran experience paying off bigtime. He is often changing the play at the line, and the play works despite whatever crap Hackett called. Lets hope EJ is learning from watching Orton make his reads.

 

Love Sammy, and sure hope they don't use him as a decoy anymore.

 

Hope Fredex, and CJ a speedy recovery.

 

This team almost lost to a bad team at home. I used to like Schwartz a lot, and not so much anymore with that rush only four strat that makes rookie QB's look like all pros.

[dave mcbride]

 

I don't either. Robert Woods has been doing it his whole life. So has Williams. They have done it in college and in the NFL consistently. They should be playing. Whaley built a team with certain kinds of players for a reason. His coach is blowing it.

 

Hogan made a great play today that was dramatic and was a huge part of the win. I'm happy for him and the team. He should be a role player, and IMO his presence on the field is why we were in that position in the first place. Not that he is causing it, but rather that we have better players on the bench, and if they were playing and doing what they have proven again and again they can do, we would have a much, much, much better offense despite our OL problems.

I don't think either of us know enough about route running, blocking, etc. when it comes to these three. I'd reserve judgment. From my perch, Woods strikes me as slightly better than a JAG, but only slightly. I realize I may be wrong (I should add that I don't give a damn about college production at USC -- I've been burned before when I've factored that in). I don't know enough about either Williams or Hogan, although it is telling that Orton went to Hogan on a key play. He may be better than this board seems to think he is. We shall see. There are tons of player who do nothing in college or come from smaller schools, and still do really well (Edelman, Julius Thomas, Arian Foster, Cameron Wake -- the list is very long).

Edited October 20, 2014 by dave mcbride

[paupmvp1995]

Orton was never advertised as anything remotely mobile. He is what he is….tough, fiery and he delivers that ball…I'll take him with his faults. If we can cure the OL, he will be 300 yards 2TD's and probably 1 INT week in/out. That can get this team to the playoffs.

Exactly... If the Bills can fix the O line to just average, Orton will light it up all season. He throws as good an intermediate ball as anyone in the league when given time. The throw to Chandler on 4th and 20 was a thing of beauty. And than to keep firing to Sammy Hogan and than Sammy for the TD, are you kidding me? That was frikin AWESOME!! I haven't seen that from a Bills QB in a long time. Orton has a lot of game, and plays w confidence. This is the chance he has been waiting for. Get some O lineman who can move their feet, and we will compete every week. And btw, Orton knows what it takes to win. Sure he will turn it over, but so does every QB. The good ones keep making plays, regardless of their mistakes. They know its last man standing that wins each week. Doesn't matter how it looks getting there.

[BuffaninATL]

1)

 

1)can we start a mass petition to get Urbik in at G ?

2) one way to stop Hackett from his inane playcalling ruining the talent we have- just let Orton audible or check out of the Hackett play call;I'm sure that will produce better outcomes than the predictable garbage we are seeing

3) if Marrone wants to last another year, he'd better start to see the same things we are and stop being so damn stubborn

 

4) speaking of Urbik, can we get our ace insider Joe B to find out why the hell Urbik can't replace one of the current disasters at G ?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1) I've got a confession to make about EJ. Yes, I said EJ. I was never high on him until today. He was standing on the sidelines with the coaches and Orton was involved. He was clearly happy when we completed passes and made plays. This tells me he is a team player; a young kid trying to learn. I respect this big time and offer him a proverbial tip of the hat. I appreciate this kind of behavior. Cheerleader is a good place for him

 

2) Speaking of human behavior, my life has taught me that its not always easy to predict. Weren't Dareus and Hughes the guys that were acting like fools in the off season? Well, watch the game my friends. They looked like the best conditioned athletes on the field today. And, they were focused. Marcel is a monster. Gotta love that kid!!! Doesn't mean they still aren't fools, they can just play well.

 

 

5) Schwartz is killing me. Completions on 3rd and 10 and 3rd and 18 on the SAME DRIVE? There is too much talent on the Bills defense for this to happen. He doesn't apply enough pass pressure pure and simple.

 

 

7) I cannot stress enough how much I appreciate how tough Orton is. Seriously, he is a throwback. But when he is forced out of the pocket, it really does suck, no? he really sux when he just stands there, has made some plays outside of the pocket but by in large he is a statue.

 

8) Hackett too was like a knife in my ribcage today. The handoffs up the middle to a seemingly gassed Dixon on first and second down were tough to take, no? no

 

11) I wish Spiller well and at the same time am anxious to see what Bryce Brown will bring this football team.

 

13) There is a lot to talk about wrt the OL but make no mistake, Glenn didn't play so well today. That said, in the 3rd quarter Richardson seemed to come alive. Let's hope, ya know?!

 

14) Did anyone see what happened to Mario on 3rd and 4 on the Vikes opening drive? First he was held, then he was tackled. They didn't make the first down so the penalty would have been declined, but these calls appear to be random at this point.

 

15) Chandler? A Crucial first down reception after a crucial drop. At least he didn't quit!

 

16) Congrats to us Bills Fans. Mid October, we are over .500, and I am loving it!

 

17) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bill from NYC]

Did anyone key in on Mario Williams? I didn't hear his name as much as Hughes or Dareus, which is fine by me.

I am just looking for any educated and honest opinions on what he had going on today?

 

He seems to hold down his side of the fort solely without letting others have to assist.

 

Mario was fine, as always. He holds down his side and applies pressure. He hasn't had one of those 3 sack games this season but his numbers are good, as is his performance.

And btw, he is extremely involved in the game. I saw him get angry on one play when he felt the defenders on his side messed up.

 

I still consider him the best player on our team. Jmo.

[GunnerBill]

I'm sorry Bill - I just cannot fathom how anyone can be down on Jim Schwartz. Without him as DC this team is 1-6 in my honest opinion. Were there a few big 3rd down completions that you don't like to see? Sure - but the Vikings were 5/16 in the game on 3rd down, they had two drives of any substance all game (the touchdown and the 4th Qtr FG following the back to back sacks). The Bills defense is 4th in the NFL on 3rd down (actually joint 3rd with Kansas City).

 

I think sometimes you just gotta accept that the guys on the other side are not without talent and they are trying to make plays to win a game too. The Bills defense is legit, despite consistently being relied upon to keep us in the game because our offense is a mess.

 

My additional thought.... I really don't know where I am on Kyle Orton. He is making some big plays and he cmae up big in the clutch today and at Detroit.... but he cannot continue his run of 1 pick and 1 strip sack fumble per game. This team is not yet good enough to get away with those kinds of mental errors.

[sherpa]

Slot guys need to have that combination of athleticism and toughness or to fight off being jammed at the line. So far that's what I like about Hogan. He's got enough size and strength (I don't think Woods does) to get into those seams, and enough athleticism to turn it up field every now and then. Not saying he's great, but a reliable slot guy is critical, particularly with a struggling run game.

 

And Hogan was wide open on the Sammy touchdown, running a slant from the right.

 

Not sure Orton could have got it through the D-line, but Hogan was wide open and had the goal line.

Edited October 20, 2014 by sherpa

[Gordio]

Schwartz continues to piss me off with the 3 man rushes.

 

I thought it was going to cost us the game on that 3rd and 18 for that 25 plus pass play.

 

The offensive line play(Particularly at Guard) continues to be a disaster. As I've stated at least 3 times following the game today...Is Urbik that bad that he is playing behind both Pears and Richardson????

 

The guy was NEVER this bad since being here and yet he sits on the bench. What gives? I thought Saint Doug was the O-Line guru?

 

We have some stubborn, stubborn coaches.... and it bit us in the ass against the Patriots last week and we were lucky it didn't again this week.

 

No mention of Watkins?

 

I have to admit I hated the trade, but the guy is an awesome receiver. He has won us at least 2 games and he gets open consistently. Oh and he catches just about everything....

 

Overall happy they won, not happy with the coaches.

 

I was for the trade. Yeah it sucks to pay that steep of a price but look who has been our first round picks the last 10 years. My guess is we will be picking around 18 or 19 this year, or maybe even higher if the breaks go our way. You don't get a chance to get a playmaker like that everyday.