Fitz- The final straw

[Max Fischer]

I was a fitz fan until the past few weeks. Today he missed Stevie Johnson twice, Donald Jones once, Scott Chandler once, and I thought there was another.

 

 

As much as I want him to be good, Fitz really isn't that good. A decent NFL QB doesn't miss those throws. He's a liability, and that is unfortunate.

 

Agree. Ive been a supporter and thought Fitz would bounce back after the rib injury. Instead, I've been horrified by how poorly Fitz has performed. Every QB must suffer through dropped passes, but Fitz simply can't make consistent passes and that really hurts the offense.

 

Unfortunately, there isn't a viable solution, as I don't believe Thigpen is an answer and if Jackson was half-decent he'd have passed Thigpen on the depth chart.

 

[markgbe]

Great win. Still not elite, we know this.

 

What we need to do i think...

 

improve / Keep defense playing well

 

Not make stupid play calls like throwing a bomb instead of running down the clock and playing defense. I've always been 100% behind coaching and the sometimes gutsy calls, but there were a few in this came you just can make.

Edited October 15, 2012 by markgbe

[bananathumb]

Can't believe how many idiots ever thought Fitz was an upgrade from trent.

[Dorkington]

Can't believe how many idiots ever thought Fitz was an upgrade from trent.

 

He very much is an improvement over Trent.

 

Doesn't mean Fitz is any good, though.

[mrags]

 

 

The point is that it's the popular pastime here now to bash Fitz and claim that he can't throw at all, does nothing to help the team win, and anyone would be better.

Evidence doesn't matter, we all say it so it must be true.

Your absolutely right. We shouldn't be bashing Fitz. We should be bashing Buddy for giving us his all and this is still what we have for a starting QB. And Chan, because he still doesn't get it that Fitz isn't a good QB.

 

Fitz is what he is. I guess it's like when we used to bash Whitner. It's not that yes horrible, it's that he's what we've got and we expect him to be better. Well... He's not better. It's clearly obvious that Futz isn't progressing. If anything he's regressing. So to that, I say the only person that can help Fatz get any better is Chan. Chan clearly must be able to see that he's not a superstar QB and if he was smart he would limit the number of opportunities of Fagz as much as possible. And that goes back to my points that we have a beefed up OL and 2 solid RBs and Chan should be limiting Fizz' bad descisions and bad throws every chance he can and just allow him to manage the game.

 

Hey, I didn't even overexagerrate for you there.

[Gordio]

He's, sadly, the best QB we have. We're going to ride him until the end of the year.

 

We'll finish with a good enough record to put us out of the running for a top QB prospect, and we won't have the means to go after Flacco (the best QB FA at this moment, and not even sure if he's so much better, but he's got a big arm).

 

You don't think Flacco is better then Fitz? Flacco blows the doors off Fitz, it is not even close. Noway Baltimore let's him walk.

[8-8 Forever?]

So...you're proposing that Tyler Thigpen should take over as starting QB? Clearly Tavaris Jackson isn't ready or he might be taking snaps with the 2nd team in practice. I'm not saying that I'm not frustrated with Fitz's play, but what is the alternative? I don't understand the point of ths thread.

Neither do I. We just won the game and everyone finds the Negative. Buffalo people can find the raincloud on a sunny day like no people I've ever seen.

[jumbalaya]

fitz is not great, but hes not nearly as bad as fans make him out to be. qb play is like preseason - ppl completely forget past history. weve had so many truly bad qbs here its amazing we dont remember what that looks like more clearly

 

he certainly is frustrating. he picks really inopportune times to suck. but he does distribute the ball and make plays enough to keep his team reasonable well productive most games

 

id give him a C- right now, which is barely good enough to win. i mean cmon who has been a c- since drew the savior that wasnt? even the statue would have to be given a c+ at best his whole time here. sure id like fitz to be better but he could sure as hell be worse. i have plenty of opportunity to curse him during the game and im glad to have enough to cheer about. which sounds like a c- to me

 

unless fitz makes some fairly miraculous transformation here soon, chuddys gonna have to draft a qb now this spring. its reasonable to expect fitz to be better than he has been and if it stays that way they have to try to upgrade the position just like any other. his current production doesnt deserve being the only viable qb on the option with no plan b. they will absolutely create that plan b next season, probably with tjax and an early pick

 

for now fitz is good enough. barely. baree-lee

 

What games are you watching? Rookies Weeden, Wilson, Luck, Tannehill and Griffin all outplay this guy. He can't throw deep, he throws late, he is throwing to the wrong shoulder. He is trying to place the ball in a spot and not throw it in there and it looks awful and the results are worse.

[C.Biscuit97]

Neither do I. We just won the game and everyone finds the Negative. Buffalo people can find the raincloud on a sunny day like no people I've ever seen.

 

It is pretty annoying to come here after a win over a 4-1 team that had the NFL's longest home streak and jsut see negative crap. Fitz is very limited but he's the best we have right now. And he basically did what most fans wanted. Be a game manager and not make turnovers. Obviously, we need an upgrade but it's not happening this year. So let's just enjoy the W.

[bmur66]

Well. At least he didn't throw any interceptions.

[Toledo Bill]

It is pretty annoying to come here after a win over a 4-1 team that had the NFL's longest home streak and jsut see negative crap. Fitz is very limited but he's the best we have right now. And he basically did what most fans wanted. Be a game manager and not make turnovers. Obviously, we need an upgrade but it's not happening this year. So let's just enjoy the W.

Well put, but it is extremely frustrating to see a starting NFL quarterback not be able to make basic throws. Glad to have a win but it does not erase the fact that they absolutely QUIT the previous two games and that, in my opinion, they have a long way to go.

[eball]

It is pretty annoying to come here after a win over a 4-1 team that had the NFL's longest home streak and jsut see negative crap. Fitz is very limited but he's the best we have right now. And he basically did what most fans wanted. Be a game manager and not make turnovers. Obviously, we need an upgrade but it's not happening this year. So let's just enjoy the W.

 

As one of the "homers" around here, even I have to admit the truth when it's staring me in the face. Fitz missed at least 5 or 6 throws yesterday that he should be able to make in his sleep. If he hits those, the game isn't close in the 4th quarter.

 

Yes -- it was a "good" win, against a team that has played extremely well at home and has a very solid defense. That should not be discounted. Let me make one thing very clear, however -- the M.O. of this football team for the rest of the season should be run, run, and run again. CJ Spiller is elite, and FredEx is very good. Getting Glenn and Urbik back will help as well. Fitz should be throwing no more than 20 passes a game. That's the only recipe for success with this QB.

[C.Biscuit97]

As one of the "homers" around here, even I have to admit the truth when it's staring me in the face. Fitz missed at least 5 or 6 throws yesterday that he should be able to make in his sleep. If he hits those, the game isn't close in the 4th quarter.

 

Yes -- it was a "good" win, against a team that has played extremely well at home and has a very solid defense. That should not be discounted. Let me make one thing very clear, however -- the M.O. of this football team for the rest of the season should be run, run, and run again. CJ Spiller is elite, and FredEx is very good. Getting Glenn and Urbik back will help as well. Fitz should be throwing no more than 20 passes a game. That's the only recipe for success with this QB.

 

I agree 100%. My main point is yelling and screaming about it is going to do nothing. Gailey is married to Fitz. IMO, you know what you have in Fitz but the defense was suppose to carry this team. I still think this is a borderline playoff team if the defense carries its weigh.

 

That said, I want a legit 1st round talent at QB in the draft. As much as people want to overreact to every game, this is probably the most talented Bills team in a long time. A rookie QB could step into a very good situation here. They get a lot of flack but I think we have a pretty good receiving core that is limited by Fitz. And it sucks because I love Fitz' attitude but our offense will always be limited with him. but he's the guy for better or worse.

[first_and_ten]

I think David Lee should have left Fitz's mechanics alone. To try and change a guy at that age is just asking for trouble. Fitz was better last year before his injury than he is now. Instead of working on his mechanics, he should have concentrated on the mental aspects of the game and making better decisions. In other words, make him a better quarterback instead of trying to make him a better passer. Right now, Fitz looks like he has regressed badly in his ability to throw the football. Trying to tweak his mechanics has produced an awful passer.

[bobobonators]

3-3. same record as pats, fins, jets. try smiling.

[dave mcbride]

You guys are missing a huge strength of his game - the ability to avoid sacks (and hence fumbles). Is he a great QB? Of course not -- not by any means. However, from 2003-2010, the Bills offense never finished above 25th and averaged 28th. They were 14th last year, and largely because they had a QB who could execute a fairly complex offense stocked with marginal talent. Could he hit every receiver in stride? God no. But the alternative is a QB who gets sacked 4-5 times a game and gives up 8-10 fumbles over the course of a season. God knows I hate INTs, but I'm with Mike Martz in that many of them are effectively shanked punts. Fumbles on sacks always involve backward motion. Eventually the Bills will replace him, but people need to come to their senses. For all of his flaws, he's a HUGE upgrade over Edwards, Losman, the Bledsoe from 03-04, and Rob Johnson.

Edited October 15, 2012 by dave mcbride

[BuffOrange]

You guys who only want to talk about things that fans can change - good luck with that. I'm sure that'd make for some really interesting discussion.

"Yo I was thinking about boycotting beer until they lower the price to $6, sound good"?

[Kelly the Dog]

You guys are missing a huge strength of his game - the ability to avoid sacks (and hence fumbles). Is he a great QB? Of course not -- not by any means. However, from 2003-2010, the Bills offense never finished above 25th and averaged 28th. They were 14th last year, and largely because they had a QB who could execute a fairly complex offense stocked with marginal talent. Could he hit every receiver in stride? God no. But the alternative is a QB who gets sacked 4-5 times a game and gives up 8-10 fumbles over the course of a season. God knows I hate INTs, but I'm with Mike Martz in that many of them are effectively shanked punts. Fumbles on sacks always involve backward motion. Eventually the Bills will replace him, but people need to come to their senses. For all of his flaws, he's a HUGE upgrade over Edwards, Losman, the Bledsoe from 03-04, and Rob Johnson.

Agree completely. Fitz had a horrible time with his accuracy yesterday, and it's an enormous issue right now. He's playing terribly in that area and we cannot win a playoff game in all likelihood with him throwing like that. But he does so many great things that are extremely important in the game of football and at the QB position that this team could not afford to lose. IMO, fans belittle, don't see, or choose to ignore all of the other elements that he possesses and often excels at which would kill a QB playing on this team that has a better arm than him.

 

He had a bad game throwing accurately but we won, and he didn't turn the ball over. He throws for 3-4 TDs and people say it doesn't matter, we lost, so that means he played poorly. Now we win and people say it doesn't matter if we won, he played poorly.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Kelly the Dog

[EasternOHBillsFan]

There isnt a QB on this team that wouldve hit that pass....They all suck.....

 

Jackson hasn't even played yet... you don't know that.

[Billsrhody]

Agree. Ive been a supporter and thought Fitz would bounce back after the rib injury. Instead, I've been horrified by how poorly Fitz has performed. Every QB must suffer through dropped passes, but Fitz simply can't make consistent passes and that really hurts the offense.

 

Unfortunately, there isn't a viable solution, as I don't believe Thigpen is an answer and if Jackson was half-decent he'd have passed Thigpen on the depth chart.

 

Jackson is better than Thigpen. Only, the 7th rounder we traded for him becomes a 6th rounder if he is active in more than 6 games. I think that has something to do with why we havent seen him dress yet.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Did anyone listen to WGR this morning? A friend of mine told me that they said on the show this morning that Fred and SJ made comments or said negative things about Fitz’s throws.

 

I’m paraphrasing here but can anyone shed some light on this? Probably would have been between 7-8am

 

CBF

[eball]

Agree completely. Fitz had a horrible time with his accuracy yesterday, and it's an enormous issue right now. He's playing terribly in that area and we cannot win a playoff game in all likelihood with him throwing like that. But he does so many great things that are extremely important in the game of football and at the QB position that this team could not afford to lose. IMO, fans belittle, don't see, or choose to ignore all of the other elements that he possesses and often excels at which would kill a QB playing on this team that has a better arm than him.

 

He had a bad game throwing accurately but we won, and he didn't turn the ball over. He throws for 3-4 TDs and people say it doesn't matter, we lost, so that means he played poorly. Now we win and people say it doesn't matter if we won, he played poorly.

 

I thought it was obvious yesterday Fitz made up his mind he wasn't going to force throws and risk INTs. The problem is that made him tentative and his accuracy suffered even more than usual. I love Fitz's strengths, but at some point we have to be comfortable that a QB will make the "easy" throws without them being an adventure. It was so frustrating. Against a team with a better (i.e., competent) offense the Bills can't win the way they did yesterday.

[BuffOrange]

You guys are missing a huge strength of his game - the ability to avoid sacks (and hence fumbles). Is he a great QB? Of course not -- not by any means. However, from 2003-2010, the Bills offense never finished above 25th and averaged 28th. They were 14th last year, and largely because they had a QB who could execute a fairly complex offense stocked with marginal talent. Could he hit every receiver in stride? God no. But the alternative is a QB who gets sacked 4-5 times a game and gives up 8-10 fumbles over the course of a season. God knows I hate INTs, but I'm with Mike Martz in that many of them are effectively shanked punts. Fumbles on sacks always involve backward motion. Eventually the Bills will replace him, but people need to come to their senses. For all of his flaws, he's a HUGE upgrade over Edwards, Losman, the Bledsoe from 03-04, and Rob Johnson.

 

Int's can be like shanked punts if they're 25 yards downfield. When does he ever throw that far?

And should we be holding our CB's to a higher standard than fans of other teams because we generally had good players at that position from 2003-2010?

Edited October 15, 2012 by BuffOrange

[bananathumb]

How long would Ryan last as the starter if Chan is fired?

[FLutieFLakesPLZnoOJ]

Fitz can become elite if he did more push-ups..but he wont sooo.....

[Maybe Someday]

Jackson is better than Thigpen. Only, the 7th rounder we traded for him becomes a 6th rounder if he is active in more than 6 games. I think that has something to do with why we havent seen him dress yet.

I think you’re 100% correct. IMO, Jackson will not dress prior to game # 12 unless Fitz or Thigpen get injured in order to keep that pick from becoming a 6^th rather than a 7^th. I get the rationale for doing that but we’ve got to see what we have in him at some point this year since he will be a free agent after the season.

[Best Player Available]

Sadly, Thiggy might not have made it either.

 

Buddy Nix - this is what you give us at QB after three years?

The larger part of the problem is mentioned here^^^^^

[benderbender]

 

 

The point is that it's the popular pastime here now to bash Fitz and claim that he can't throw at all, does nothing to help the team win, and anyone would be better.

Evidence doesn't matter, we all say it so it must be true.

I guess if you stick your head in the ground and refuse to look at the evidence, it doesn't exist. No one hates Fitz as a person. He's impossible to dislike. But game after game he's throwing balls in the dirt or over their heads. Wtf is his QB coach doing?

[BuffBill]

I came to the end of my rope today with Fitz.

The final straw came at the end when Fred Jackson was wide open

for 5-10 yards and maybe a first down.

It at least would have put us in a manageable field goal position.

Perfect protection...He bounces it.

Thiggy would have hit Fred in stride.

Make the change to Jackson during the bye,

Looks like Fitz has had it.

Not defending Fitz because he sucks terribly, but how do you know "Thiggy" would have hit Fred in stride? The few times he has made appearances for the Bills he has made Losman look like Joe Montana.

 

I guess if you stick your head in the ground and refuse to look at the evidence, it doesn't exist. No one hates Fitz as a person. He's impossible to dislike. But game after game he's throwing balls in the dirt or over their heads. Wtf is his QB coach doing?

Well said. He is a very likeable person. I have talked to him for a few minutes at camp when he first came here and he was very personable. He goes out of this way for the fans at training camp. But none of this has any bearing on whether or not he can be a good quarterback, and obviously he cannot.

[zow2]

Watching Aaron Rodger throw accurate missiles last night made me realize the grand canyon size gap between Fitz and the elites. Obviously not every team has a Rodgers. Heck even Matt Schaub looked fairly pedestrian by comparison. But you gotta be able to hit those 10 yd timing slants with accuracy and simple check downs in the flat. Would be nice to also be able to throw downfield once in a blue moon. Hey, you might even get lucky on a pass interference? Fitz needs to forget this David Lee clown and all those tweaks to his mechanics. Just BALL. If he has to take off running more he should. RIsk injury? oh well, how could the backup to that much worse. Fitzy needs to step up his game big time...and i am a fan of his.

[Brand J]

Guys. He's nursing sore ribs. That's why he's been so terrible. If not that, then it's all David Lee's fault for tweaking his mechanics. All of this reminds me of the reason Trent Edwards had a terrible career: the Adrian Wilson hit.

[/sarcasm]

[Billy in 4C]

Remember, Fitz was the 3rd string QB behind Losman and Edwards. Losman who went on to have a fine career with the UFL Las Vegas Locamotives and Edwards who is currently sitting 3rd string in Philadelphia. He barely beat out Brian Brohm who is currently the starting QB of the UFL Las Vegas Locamotives. I don't know why fans had these dilusions that in his late 20s he would instantly become an average starting quarterback. He will be out of football altogether within 3 years like every quarterback we've had since Kelly.

[atlbillsfan1975]

i may have gone over the edge when i saw SJ13 after a bad pass walk back to the huddle shaking his head in obvious disgust....just not sure what the deal is...

You hit the nail on the head. Stevie has lost confidence in Fitz, as well he should. I think the rest of the guys also are sick of getting open and Fitz not being able to get them the ball.

Bills won today in spite of Fitz. He was getting guys killed out there. Freddie in particular on the screen play. THROW the ball away. And Stevie was doing all he could to help Fitz, but Fitz can not throw the ball.

And the fact that the Bills give Seattle a slightly better LATE ROUND pick based on how many games Jackson plays is crazy.

I hope that is really some fan based made up crap, because that is another thing which will kill a locker room.

[BobChalmers]

Speaking of Losman (Buffalo's last 1st round QB) - now that the OL and running game are so much better than when JP was here, he would probably flourish.

 

His decision making was scary, but it's hard to look smart on the field when you are running for your life so frequently.

 

You hit the nail on the head. Stevie has lost confidence in Fitz, as well he should. I think the rest of the guys also are sick of getting open and Fitz not being able to get them the ball.

Bills won today in spite of Fitz. He was getting guys killed out there. Freddie in particular on the screen play. THROW the ball away. And Stevie was doing all he could to help Fitz, but Fitz can not throw the ball.

And the fact that the Bills give Seattle a slightly better LATE ROUND pick based on how many games Jackson plays is crazy.

I hope that is really some fan based made up crap, because that is another thing which will kill a locker room.

 

I have to wonder if the WR's aren't getting really tired of their bodies put at risk by all the floaters too.

[Brand J]

Speaking of Losman (Buffalo's last 1st round QB) - now that the OL and running game are so much better than when JP was here, he would probably flourish.

 

His decision making was scary, but it's hard to look smart on the field when you are running for your life so frequently.

 

 

 

I have to wonder if the WR's aren't getting really tired of their bodies put at risk by all the floaters too.

 

Losman had a GREAT deep ball, but had trouble throwing WRs open with passes in the 10-25 yard range. Interesting that the current crop of WRs are getting open, wide open, but lack a QB who can get them the ball. Would Losman "flourish"? I doubt it. Not the current one anyway, but something tells me the offense would be better if a young Losman was in the system - the one who was full of confidence and thought he had a promising NFL career ahead of him.

[BuffOrange]

Speaking of Losman (Buffalo's last 1st round QB) - now that the OL and running game are so much better than when JP was here, he would probably flourish.

 

His decision making was scary, but it's hard to look smart on the field when you are running for your life so frequently.

 

 

 

I have to wonder if the WR's aren't getting really tired of their bodies put at risk by all the floaters too.

 

You tend to "run for your life" more when you don't throw the ball.

[HOUSE]

Wow, you have a lot more straw then me.. I was out after the Patriots game.

[SactoBillFan]

Sorry - this is a perfect example of the mentality that Team wins = QB good. Absurd.

 

Fitz did NOT "win" this game. The defense did. His accuracy was once again as bad or worse than any QB in the league.

 

And don't quote completion %'s - those are affected by plays and situations - please just look at his steady stream of unforced errors - throws in the dirt, throws behind, throws too high that can get his WR's killed. The guy has never been accurate and sadly, despite David Lee's efforts, he may actually have gotten worse.

 

There are college QB's who throw like that, but most of them don't make it to the NFL, and they sure don't become starters.

 

If Fitz is even just average the Bills had the open receivers to have won this game by 10 or more easily. He is THE thing holding them back. (Although they clearly need to upgrade at LB to replace the aging Barnett and limitied Sheppard).

 

I didn't imply that Fitz WON the game. I meant the Bills won the game. Arizona is a descent team with a good defense and they were home. Just happy for the win. I know Fitz is inaccurate at times, what can you do? Nothing right now except make me yawn.

[UpperDeck]

Losman had a GREAT deep ball, but had trouble throwing WRs open with passes in the 10-25 yard range. Interesting that the current crop of WRs are getting open, wide open, but lack a QB who can get them the ball. Would Losman "flourish"? I doubt it. Not the current one anyway, but something tells me the offense would be better if a young Losman was in the system - the one who was full of confidence and thought he had a promising NFL career ahead of him.

Not sure if that would be true but surely Losman would've been better. I think this has a lot to do with why Buddy hasn't brought in a young QB. He wanted to build the line and have some quality receivers here before throwing a rookie into the fire. I think that's smart but Buddy might've waited a year later than he needed to. The players on offense are good enough this year to help a rookie succeed. If Buddy foregoes drafting a QB early next year then he deserves a ton of heat (if not walking papers). We need a real QB if we are ever going to get beyond this mediocrity.

[Maybe Someday]

Remember, Fitz was the 3rd string QB behind Losman and Edwards. Losman who went on to have a fine career with the UFL Las Vegas Locamotives and Edwards who is currently sitting 3rd string in Philadelphia. He barely beat out Brian Brohm who is currently the starting QB of the UFL Las Vegas Locamotives. I don't know why fans had these dilusions that in his late 20s he would instantly become an average starting quarterback. He will be out of football altogether within 3 years like every quarterback we've had since Kelly.

I’m not disagreeing with your overall point but the bolded part is not true. Losman and Fitz were not on the Bills at the same time. Losman backed up Trent in 2008 while Fitz was still in Cincy. Losman wasn’t re-signed/left in free agency prior to 2009 and Fitz was signed to replace him as Trent’s backup.