HeHateMe Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 After Troup going on IR for the season I was just thinking back to how awful Nix's first draft was for this team... I mean it is really terrible. Spiller - hasn't produced enough at this point to justify the pick although a lot of upside here (best pick) Troup - IR for 2nd straight season Carrington - likely to be cut this year, never done anything as a Bill Easley - injured the entire time he has been on the team, likely to be cut Wang - trash Moats - should make the team (2nd best pick.. not saying much) Batten - likely to be cut Levi Brown - trash Calloway - trash After cuts we are likely to only have Spiller and Moats playing this year... what a disaster this was. Your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I give passes on Troup and Easley (due to injury), and on Carrington and Batten (due to change to 4-3 scheme). As you said, Spiller and Moats seem like good picks, and the others are trash (though I doubt expectations could be high for them in any event). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I give passes on Troup and Easley (due to injury), and on Carrington and Batten (due to change to 4-3 scheme). As you said, Spiller and Moats seem like good picks, and the others are trash (though I doubt expectations could be high for them in any event). I am not seeing where he says or implies that Spiller was a good pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills1960 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Well the fact of the matter was that Troup and Carrington were projected to go wayyy lower than where we took them. Are the rankings always right? Of course not. But those two guys would have been there two rounds later respectively. The fact that we passed on guys like Gronkowski, Angerer and Navorro Bowman is sickening. Again, no GM is perfect but that's bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny33 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Well the fact of the matter was that Troup and Carrington were projected to go wayyy lower than where we took them. Are the rankings always right? Of course not. But those two guys would have been there two rounds later respectively. The fact that we passed on guys like Gronkowski, Angerer and Navorro Bowman is sickening. Again, no GM is perfect but that's bad. Obviously, the players we picked are worse, with the exception of Spiller, but Angerer isn't that good. He's not even close to being in the same league as guys like Gronkowski and Bowman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cson76 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Last year of Modrack for what it's worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Tom Brady was taken in what round? At some point the draft is a crap shoot. No reason that they could have known that troop and easley would have health issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills1960 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Obviously, the players we picked are worse, with the exception of Spiller, but Angerer isn't that good. He's not even close to being in the same league as guys like Gronkowski and Bowman. He's a heck of a lot better than Kelvin Sheppard. Regardless, we needed a Mike Linebacker then and we still need one now. Edited August 24, 2012 by bills1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Well the fact of the matter was that Troup and Carrington were projected to go wayyy lower than where we took them. Are the rankings always right? Of course not. But those two guys would have been there two rounds later respectively. The fact that we passed on guys like Gronkowski, Angerer and Navorro Bowman is sickening. Again, no GM is perfect but that's bad. Another example of the Bills trying to "out-think" the rest of the NFL and every scouting service backfiring. Spiller was the BPA, so that's a solid pick, and I think he becomes a pro-bowl player, but the rest are bad. And Troup should not be given a pass for his injury problems. He had them in college. Tom Brady was taken in what round? At some point the draft is a crap shoot. No reason that they could have known that troop and easley would have health issues. Due diligence on Troupe. Easley no, but Troupe had back problems in college. You don't "reach" on a guy from a smaller conference with injury problems that directly impact the position he plays. Esp. when you need a TE, and the top one in the draft who is from Buffalo happens to be available.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Another example of the Bills trying to "out-think" the rest of the NFL and every scouting service backfiring. Spiller was the BPA, so that's a solid pick, and I think he becomes a pro-bowl player, but the rest are bad. And Troup should not be given a pass for his injury problems. He had them in college. This has been refuted time and again but here is the link anyway. Gronk had the documented back problem in college not Troup. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torell_Troup#College_career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsmystic Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 There is no argueing that this draft was terrible- it looked bad the weekend we drafted and worse now years later with the facts in. Let's hope it was Modrak and not Buddy who thumbed his nose at "experts" and kept reaching for guys with much lower grades- we just don't know. I think it's a bit of both- keep in mind TJ Graham wasn't rated as a 3rd rounder but here he is- let's hope for the best, but we were too terrible of a team to have another wasted draft in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 A couple of thoughts - Modrak was shown the door after this draft.....you can pin this on Nix and Gailey if you want but if you are going to do that at least give the two of them credit for the ability to recognize errors and not be to proud to admit them by making changes......just like QB edwards and that OT from the raiders. After this horrid draft Modrak was gone. - Since that draft and truly getting settled in it looks like Nix and Gailey have followed that up with two very solid drafts. At least HUGE steps in the right direction are being taken unlike former GM and HC who have stringed bad drafts along with lackluster free agent off seasons. So yes...the draft was bad.....but the team might actually be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 spiller was a great pick, he was a little raw his rookie year but could be really special... hes proven that... troup- bad luck, maybe next year carrington- i actually thought this wasnt a bad pick. he makes the team easley- yeah, bad pick and injury issues wang- wash moats- great pick and can be solid on strong side along with big time ability rushing passer on the edge... batten- would be a solid backup in a 34 it wasnt that bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffBill Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 After Troup going on IR for the season I was just thinking back to how awful Nix's first draft was for this team... I mean it is really terrible. Spiller - hasn't produced enough at this point to justify the pick although a lot of upside here (best pick) Troup - IR for 2nd straight season Carrington - likely to be cut this year, never done anything as a Bill Easley - injured the entire time he has been on the team, likely to be cut Wang - trash Moats - should make the team (2nd best pick.. not saying much) Batten - likely to be cut Levi Brown - trash Calloway - trash After cuts we are likely to only have Spiller and Moats playing this year... what a disaster this was. Your thoughts? I think the only pick in that entire draft for the Bills that panned out considering where they were drafted was Moats. Spiller has been pretty good at times, but not really when you consider where he was taken in the draft. The Buddy Machine didn't get off to a roaring start did they, let's hope when the dust settles the 2011 and 2012 drafts turn out better then that one did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 you are also not counting the great job nix did with waiver pickups in 010 and rfa nelson/roosevelt/jones chandler urbik rinehart brown heard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 A couple of thoughts - Modrak was shown the door after this draft.....you can pin this on Nix and Gailey if you want but if you are going to do that at least give the two of them credit for the ability to recognize errors and not be to proud to admit them by making changes......just like QB edwards and that OT from the raiders. After this horrid draft Modrak was gone. - Since that draft and truly getting settled in it looks like Nix and Gailey have followed that up with two very solid drafts. At least HUGE steps in the right direction are being taken unlike former GM and HC who have stringed bad drafts along with lackluster free agent off seasons. So yes...the draft was bad.....but the team might actually be good You say that - but then you start looking back at the 2011 draft and the concerns spread out a bit. Dareus is a stud, no question - but after that, you have Aaron Williams and Kelvin Sheppard, both of whom have had awful preseasons and may be in danger of losing their jobs. Chris White and Johnny White likely both will be cut. Hairston is a decent swing tackle but that appears to be his ceiling. Jasper is gone. Searcy is a backup (so far)... I look at Nix's first two drafts and I really have to question whether the guy knows what he's doing as a GM. I love his coaches (now, although it took a re-boot on the defensive side) and he's done a good job with UDFAs and free agents. But the good teams win on draft day - Nix has not come close to doing that yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Well the fact of the matter was that Troup and Carrington were projected to go wayyy lower than where we took them. Are the rankings always right? Of course not. But those two guys would have been there two rounds later respectively. The fact that we passed on guys like Gronkowski, Angerer and Navorro Bowman is sickening. Again, no GM is perfect but that's bad. It makes me sick we could have had Gronkowski. What a bunch of dopes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffBill Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 you are also not counting the great job nix did with waiver pickups in 010 and rfa nelson/roosevelt/jones chandler urbik rinehart brown heard I think the topic was the draft not the undrafted free agents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBD Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Due diligence on Troupe. Easley no, but Troupe had back problems in college. You don't "reach" on a guy from a smaller conference with injury problems that directly impact the position he plays. Esp. when you need a TE, and the top one in the draft who is from Buffalo happens to be available.! He didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffBill Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 It makes me sick we could have had Gronkowski. What a bunch of dopes... A homeboy at that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Missing on rounds 5-7 does not count as a bust. League wide, most of those guys wash out after a year or 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 The season is not coming soon enough for me. How many threads like this can ppl on here actually generate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffBill Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I have read in a few places how this current front office was such an improvement, and I am not slamming the front office, but we still have 3 starters from the 2009 class, and 3 of the teams better players too (Byrd, Wood & Levitre). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 You say that - but then you start looking back at the 2011 draft and the concerns spread out a bit. Dareus is a stud, no question - but after that, you have Aaron Williams and Kelvin Sheppard, both of whom have had awful preseasons and may be in danger of losing their jobs. Chris White and Johnny White likely both will be cut. Hairston is a decent swing tackle but that appears to be his ceiling. Jasper is gone. Searcy is a backup (so far)... I look at Nix's first two drafts and I really have to question whether the guy knows what he's doing as a GM. I love his coaches (now, although it took a re-boot on the defensive side) and he's done a good job with UDFAs and free agents. But the good teams win on draft day - Nix has not come close to doing that yet. These guys are all still young....and you guage successful drafts by how many starters you are able to put out on the field - There has been no indication that Aaron Williams is losing his job.....only that he might be getting pushed by even better draft selections. To take a 6' 200 pound plus corner is was rated as a 1st round pick int the 2nd is not a bad selection. To be faire to Willaims he started off bad but got better as training camp went on. - There has been no indication that Shep has lost his starting MLB job yet with the exception that Morrison is getting reps at MLB.....Morrison could frankly be on the bubble and they are trying to see if his versitility will allow him to stay on the team. Its way too early for this. - The ONLY reason way Searcy is not starting is because we have two of the best safeties in the league....PERIOD. The bills love this guy.....and keep in mind that your going to be seeing more then 2 safeties on the field at a time due to defensive packages. Searcy is gonna play a lot this year......we also have Byrd (who I hope we resign) coming up as a free agent. Searcy was an excellent pick. Once again going with a large player at his position who loves to hit just like Williams. - Jasper was a project....at that time in the draft your not going to find a lot of Demitrous Bell's.......and Stevie Johnson's......its no big deal. - Chris White and Johnny White....same same..... I will say this again......if you can get 3-4 starting players/Impact players out of a draft then you have had a successful draft. There is NO QUESTION that this roster from top to bottom is far more talented for Nix coming in then pre Nix. Anybody who says other then that is full of **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I am not seeing where he says or implies that Spiller was a good pick. You're right--I misread the last line of his post. I would argue that, at a minimum, Spiller is good enough to consider "not a bust." A different issue is whether it ever makes sense to draft a RB in the 1st round, especially when you already had two good ones on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Biggest problem with Modrak seems to have been his love of small college players, or maybe I should say not taken into account a guy wh's a stud at South Dakota St doesn't mean he can play that level in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I can't blame Buddy for 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 .__________>/^\< | ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '|__\ | WAMBULANCE - | i<< I_______________|I ..""(@)"""""""""(@)"............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 These guys are all still young....and you guage successful drafts by how many starters you are able to put out on the field - There has been no indication that Aaron Williams is losing his job.....only that he might be getting pushed by even better draft selections. To take a 6' 200 pound plus corner is was rated as a 1st round pick int the 2nd is not a bad selection. To be faire to Willaims he started off bad but got better as training camp went on. - There has been no indication that Shep has lost his starting MLB job yet with the exception that Morrison is getting reps at MLB.....Morrison could frankly be on the bubble and they are trying to see if his versitility will allow him to stay on the team. Its way too early for this. - The ONLY reason way Searcy is not starting is because we have two of the best safeties in the league....PERIOD. The bills love this guy.....and keep in mind that your going to be seeing more then 2 safeties on the field at a time due to defensive packages. Searcy is gonna play a lot this year......we also have Byrd (who I hope we resign) coming up as a free agent. Searcy was an excellent pick. Once again going with a large player at his position who loves to hit just like Williams. - Jasper was a project....at that time in the draft your not going to find a lot of Demitrous Bell's.......and Stevie Johnson's......its no big deal. - Chris White and Johnny White....same same..... I will say this again......if you can get 3-4 starting players/Impact players out of a draft then you have had a successful draft. There is NO QUESTION that this roster from top to bottom is far more talented for Nix coming in then pre Nix. Anybody who says other then that is full of **** I agree with your concluson - but I continue not to be sold on Nix's drafting abilities. Not saying he's terrible, just that the jury is still out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) I can't blame Buddy for 2010. Why not? Wasn't he the general manager? Let's face it, 2010 was a very poor draft and it started with picking a scatback early in the 1st round. Regardless whether Spiller becomes a decent RB in this league (and after two years, that's far from certain), he was taken way too high. It's exactly the kind of decision that has put this franchise where it is today. Any GM who picks a RB in the top 30 should be fired on the spot. It is just too easy to find good running backs lower in the draft or in FA (see Fred Jackson). Cleveland, for example, was insane to use the third pick in the draft on a RB this year; I was praying that Richardson would be off the board when the Bills picked. And as someone else pointed out, the 2011 draft is not really looking all that great, especially when one considers that pretty much anyone with half a brain could have selected Dareus with the first pick. And even that pick could be questioned when one considers that the two players selected after Dareus have already made the Pro Bowl, especially when one of them was at a major position of need (WR). Edited August 24, 2012 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 spiller was a great pick, he was a little raw his rookie year but could be really special... hes proven that... i always scratch my head when I see stuff like this. He sucked complete and total ass his rookie year in every way that it is possible for a RB to suck ass. The last half of last year (his 2nd) he ran a bit better. Tried on occasion to go north instead of east/west which was great to see. Both years, and so far in this preseason, he still cannot pick up a blitzer to save his (or Fitz's) life. By all accounts he is a nice kid with a great work ethic and has great speed. But so far that has not translated into anything even remotely "special". But you are right to say he still could. I'm pulling for the kid to have a breakout season this year, which a RB sure as hell should be able to have by year 3 if he is ever going to, But no freaking way, in my opinion, can anyone say picking Spiller as his first pick as the Bills GM was great so far anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) You say that - but then you start looking back at the 2011 draft and the concerns spread out a bit. Dareus is a stud, no question - but after that, you have Aaron Williams and Kelvin Sheppard, both of whom have had awful preseasons and may be in danger of losing their jobs. Chris White and Johnny White likely both will be cut. Hairston is a decent swing tackle but that appears to be his ceiling. Jasper is gone. Searcy is a backup (so far)... I look at Nix's first two drafts and I really have to question whether the guy knows what he's doing as a GM. I love his coaches (now, although it took a re-boot on the defensive side) and he's done a good job with UDFAs and free agents. But the good teams win on draft day - Nix has not come close to doing that yet. Agreed. The drafts seem to not work out as time goes on. I liked the last two drafts, but it makes you wonder how good the Glenn and graham picks are when you see shep and Aaron Williams struggling in preseason Edited August 24, 2012 by DanInUticaTampa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FleaMoulds80 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Wish people would stop saying "Spiller was BPA." Sorry but he was not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 It makes me sick we could have had Gronkowski. What a bunch of dopes... The guy is a stud but I don't blame Nix for not taking him- I remember thinking this guy is pretty good if he stays healthy he'll probably be a 50 catch 500yd guy - so he's about three times better than what I thought- the guy I had pegged in the second round was Linval Joseph who was taken by the Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Every draft can't be a home run--- the only consolation with the 2010 draft is that it is the odd man out of our recent draft history: 2009, 2011 and 2012 have produced numerous starters and/or valuable contributers. The track record has improved dramatically from where it was in the previous 6 years or so. And has been said, many of those defensive players that haven't panned could be considered 'tweeners that were too small for the 4-3 and ultimately not good enough for the failed 3-4 shift. If Easley makes the team and Troup returns healthy in 2013 and replaces Dwan Edwards or Spencer Johnson (both of their contracts are up) then it improves somewhat. But it's failure is still the outlier over the past 4 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Wish people would stop saying "Spiller was BPA." Sorry but he was not. Revisionist history at its finest. Spiller was almost the consensus BPA on the board at that spot. Everyone haf him a top 10-12 pick. JPP was a one year wonder from a small school who had lots of questions around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 i always scratch my head when I see stuff like this. He sucked complete and total ass his rookie year in every way that it is possible for a RB to suck ass. The last half of last year (his 2nd) he ran a bit better. Tried on occasion to go north instead of east/west which was great to see. Both years, and so far in this preseason, he still cannot pick up a blitzer to save his (or Fitz's) life. By all accounts he is a nice kid with a great work ethic and has great speed. But so far that has not translated into anything even remotely "special". But you are right to say he still could. I'm pulling for the kid to have a breakout season this year, which a RB sure as hell should be able to have by year 3 if he is ever going to, But no freaking way, in my opinion, can anyone say picking Spiller as his first pick as the Bills GM was great so far anyway. Pretty massive understatement there. The guy averaged over 5 yards/carry last year (good for 7th in the NFL among running backs with at least 100 carries), had 7 runs of over 20 yards (there were only 12 backs in the league with more; 9 of whom had at least 100 more carries than Spiller), and averaged 5.75 yards/touch over his 6 starts (just for fun, go check out LeSean McCoy's stats for his last 6 starts, but don't stop there, compare the defenses they faced too). Wish people would stop saying "Spiller was BPA." Sorry but he was not. Who was? No revisionist history please, just a simple answer to the question: what player--still on the board--was a better college football player than C.J. Spiller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Wish people would stop saying "Spiller was BPA." Sorry but he was not. Correct. JPP was the BPA, and not picking him cost Ralph $100 million this offseason (I'm dead serious). Then Troup, Carrington and Easley were need picks and proved why you don't draft for need over value. The 2010 draft was pretty much a textbook case of what NOT to do on draft day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FitzShowUsYourTitz Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) For what it's worth, her are the Pats and Jests 2010 picks. I figure it's easy enough for anyone to say....'Hey we coulda woulda shoulda picked this guy...'. But lets look at 2 respectable (uh,hem) franchises and see how they did. I would much prefer someone gives examples of teams actual drafts to really get a true comparison. With that said, my guess is 50% of every teams drafts are bad or mediocre. With the Pats you really have to look at how many they hit on b/c they had A Lot of picks: JESTS: 1. Kyle Wilson 2. Vladimir Ducasse 4. Joe McKnight 5. John Connor *Jests traded a bunch of picks. Major trade was for Braylon Edwards. PATS: 1. (27th Overall) – Devin McCourty, CB, Rutgers 2. Rob Gronkowski, TE, Arizona 2. Jermaine Cunningham, OLB, Florida 2. Brandon Spikes, LB, Florida 3. Taylor Price, WR, Ohio 4. Aaron Hernandez, TE, Florida 5. Zoltan Mesko, P, Michigan 6. Ted Larsen, C, NC State 7. Thomas Welch, OT, Vanderbilt 7. Brandon Deaderick, DL, Alabama 7. Kade Weston, DL, Georgia 7. Zac Robinson, QB, Oklahoma State Edited August 24, 2012 by Cville Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Revisionist history at its finest. Spiller was almost the consensus BPA on the board at that spot. Everyone haf him a top 10-12 pick. JPP was a one year wonder from a small school who had lots of questions around him. Who was? No revisionist history please, just a simple answer to the question: what player--still on the board--was a better college football player than C.J. Spiller? He wasn't just considered the BPA at the Bills pick--- in fact, Spiller was considered by many pundits and scouts to be the best player in the entire draft. JESTS: 1. Kyle Wilson 2. Vladimir Ducasse 4. Joe McKnight 5. John Connor *Jests traded a bunch of picks. Major trade was for Braylon Edwards. PATS: I've always liked the "Jests" moniker--- I'm calling it now, if the Bills win the division, then NE officially becomes the Past. It's our time. Edited August 24, 2012 by Punch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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