Bills 2010 Draft... really terrible

[Ramius]

 

 

Correct. JPP was the BPA, and not picking him cost Ralph $100 million this offseason (I'm dead serious). Then Troup, Carrington and Easley were need picks and proved why you don't draft for need over value. The 2010 draft was pretty much a textbook case of what NOT to do on draft day.

 

No. see my above post about JPP. Saying he was BPA in april of 2010 is a complete lie.

[mob16151]

No. see my above post about JPP. Saying he was BPA in april of 2010 is a complete lie.

 

No point in arguing with them.

[FitzShowUsYourTitz]

He wasn't just considered the BPA at the Bills pick--- in fact, Spiller was considered by many pundits and scouts to be the best player in the entire draft.

 

 

 

I've always liked the "Jests" moniker--- I'm calling it now, if the Bills win the division, then NE officially becomes the Past.

 

It's our time.

 

_{LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Past!!!}

[Fingon]

I don't get why everyone is so hung up on the 2010 draft. Getting two starters out of a draft is by no means "really terrible". Hell, New England has had a few "really terrible" drafts in the last 5 or 6 years. You know, years where not one drafted player was a starter.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Fingon

[djp14150]

Lets use a fair measuring stick....what about other teams 2010 draft? You also cant discount free agents signed from the 2010 draft pool either?

 

Troupe will forever be cast a shadow over no matter what since picked right after him was some local kid...

[CodeMonkey]

Pretty massive understatement there. The guy averaged over 5 yards/carry last year (good for 7th in the NFL among running backs with at least 100 carries), had 7 runs of over 20 yards (there were only 12 backs in the league with more; 9 of whom had at least 100 more carries than Spiller), and averaged 5.75 yards/touch over his 6 starts (just for fun, go check out LeSean McCoy's stats for his last 6 starts, but don't stop there, compare the defenses they faced too).

The problem with him isn't his stats. Sometimes the O line would make a seam and Spiller would be 20 yards down the field before the D even knew what the hell was going on which was always fun to watch and (rightly so in my opinion) gives fans something to be hopeful about. But the next 3 or more carries he would run towards the sideline for no gain. So for those 4 carries as an example, his YPC would be 5 (even more if the initial run was more than 20 yards). But that doesn't do much to sustain a drive. Spiller has explosive speed, but until he learns how to use it properly by going north instead of east/west consistently it isn't going to do the Bills much good over the course of a game or season.

 

Maybe this is the year he finally is able to put it all together. All Bills fans should hope for this. I certainly am!

[BillsVet]

From now on, I'm not blaming the 2002 through 2011 drafts on anyone but Tom Modrak. He is clearly OBD's version of Mush from A Bronx Tale.

[thewildrabbit]

A couple of thoughts

 

- Modrak was shown the door after this draft.....you can pin this on Nix and Gailey if you want but if you are going to do that at least give the two of them credit for the ability to recognize errors and not be to proud to admit them by making changes......just like QB edwards and that OT from the raiders. After this horrid draft Modrak was gone.

 

- Since that draft and truly getting settled in it looks like Nix and Gailey have followed that up with two very solid drafts. At least HUGE steps in the right direction are being taken unlike former GM and HC who have stringed bad drafts along with lackluster free agent off seasons.

 

So yes...the draft was bad.....but the team might actually be good

Blaming that draft on Modrak is like giving a pass to Gailey when he never watched past film of Fred Jackson, or didn't know Spiller wasn't ready to start that 2010 season.

 

Considering how desperate this team was for talent, and then everyone including the owner stating that the team lacked talent. To come up so short in that first draft is somewhat baffling when you think of Buddy Nix's resume of past drafts. Bottom line, Nix should have watched the film and gone over every player he was going to draft, regardless of when he was hired.

 

That 2010 draft is looking even worse then Jauron / Levy

 

 

I look back to the Chuck Know and Bill Polian / Levy era's and come away thinking this GM isn't even close. The only reason the team drafted so great in 2011 and got Marcel Darius was because the team was so terrible. Same thing for last years draft.

 

Anyway, it still remains to be seen if any of the players Nix has drafted so far surpass the players Jauron drafted.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Fear the Beard

[thebandit27]

Correct. JPP was the BPA, and not picking him cost Ralph $100 million this offseason (I'm dead serious). Then Troup, Carrington and Easley were need picks and proved why you don't draft for need over value. The 2010 draft was pretty much a textbook case of what NOT to do on draft day.

 

Coach, this is the EXACT type of revisionist history that drives those of us that followed college football at the time nuts.

 

JPP played exactly ONE season of college football, and produced 6.5 sacks.

 

http://www.gousfbulls.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=7700&ATCLID=3662472

 

Yes, he was considered a very talented athlete, but was nothing short of a high-risk player at the #15 slot where the Giants picked him.

 

There's no version of events that matches your statement.

[billsfan89]

Agreed even if CJ pans out to be an elite RB, and Moats comes in and contributes as a quality depth player, its still a huge blemish on the record of Nix. Also A.Williams and Sheppard have to pan out too (Although its looking much better for those guys) for that 2011 draft to be a success.

 

But unless Troup comes back from IR and is a good third DT its looking like that draft is a D+ at best a C- (IF Spiller is elite and Moats is a solid starter).

[Gugny]

Thank GOD there's something to B word about after such a great offseason. PHEW!!!

[thebandit27]

The problem with him isn't his stats. Sometimes the O line would make a seam and Spiller would be 20 yards down the field before the D even knew what the hell was going on which was always fun to watch and (rightly so in my opinion) gives fans something to be hopeful about. But the next 3 or more carries he would run towards the sideline for no gain. So for those 4 carries as an example, his YPC would be 5 (even more if the initial run was more than 20 yards). But that doesn't do much to sustain a drive. Spiller has explosive speed, but until he learns how to use it properly by going north instead of east/west consistently it isn't going to do the Bills much good over the course of a game or season.

 

Maybe this is the year he finally is able to put it all together. All Bills fans should hope for this. I certainly am!

 

I understand where you're coming from, and yes, he does need to get better from carry-to-carry. However, 7 rushes of over 20 yards isn't enough to skew his YPC average for the other 100+ carries he had during the season.

 

If you take away his 7 carries of 20+ yards, he's still averaging 4.1 YPC.

[Dragonborn10]

A couple of thoughts

 

- Modrak was shown the door after this draft.....you can pin this on Nix and Gailey if you want but if you are going to do that at least give the two of them credit for the ability to recognize errors and not be to proud to admit them by making changes......just like QB edwards and that OT from the raiders. After this horrid draft Modrak was gone.

 

- Since that draft and truly getting settled in it looks like Nix and Gailey have followed that up with two very solid drafts. At least HUGE steps in the right direction are being taken unlike former GM and HC who have stringed bad drafts along with lackluster free agent off seasons.

 

So yes...the draft was bad.....but the team might actually be good

Based on what? One draft class hasn't taken a snap yet. The other was a no-brainer pick in Dareus, a CB that may not be any better than an injured vet or underachioeving first round bust, a MLB too small to play the postion, and an OT that couldn't win the job over Bell and is now a swing tackle.

Nix has faired much better in FA and keeping their own group of good players than he has with the draft.

[DanInUticaTampa]

The 2010 draft was pretty much a textbook case of what NOT to do on draft day.

 

And for a lot of reasons. Using high picks on small schoolers, drafting one year starter, drafting for need, and I really think not grabbing a serious young qb to groom is a huge problem. Just someone in the 5th round would be ok. Just someone that might turn into something in a few years

[Dragonborn10]

Coach, this is the EXACT type of revisionist history that drives those of us that followed college football at the time nuts.

 

JPP played exactly ONE season of college football, and produced 6.5 sacks.

 

http://www.gousfbull...&ATCLID=3662472

 

Yes, he was considered a very talented athlete, but was nothing short of a high-risk player at the #15 slot where the Giants picked him.

 

There's no version of events that matches your statement.

 

He is wrong about JPP but dead on when it comes to drafting Troup and Easley for need. Had they not made the ill-fated decision to switch to a 3-4 (seriously Kyle Williams at NT????) Troup would have never been drafted by this team. Easley was a ridiculous reach.

[HeHateMe]

I don't get why everyone is so hung up on the 2010 draft. Getting two starters out of a draft is by no means "really terrible". Hell, New England has had a few "really terrible" drafts in the last 5 or 6 years. You know, years where not one drafted player was a starter.

 

Two starters? Fred Jackson is the starting RB on this team and Moats starting has not even been determined yet.

[Herb62]

Tom Brady was taken in what round? At some point the draft is a crap shoot. No reason that they could have known that troop and easley would have health issues.

Which is why we always stink and NE, Pitt etc. are always in the hunt

[GG]

I look at Nix's first two drafts and I really have to question whether the guy knows what he's doing as a GM. I love his coaches (now, although it took a re-boot on the defensive side) and he's done a good job with UDFAs and free agents. But the good teams win on draft day - Nix has not come close to doing that yet.

 

Which is very ironic as Nix's primary goal was to fix the drafting process. It was his overall GM aptitude that was questioned.

 

Forget 2010, the bigger test is how he came out of the 2011 draft which was the deepest in years.

[John from Riverside]

Correct. JPP was the BPA, and not picking him cost Ralph $100 million this offseason (I'm dead serious). Then Troup, Carrington and Easley were need picks and proved why you don't draft for need over value. The 2010 draft was pretty much a textbook case of what NOT to do on draft day.

 

OK so just let me get this straight.

 

JPP was BPP and we should have taken him even though he was a 1 year wonder from a small school.....yet we are ripping Nix ass for taking Carrington who was also raw from a small school but taken later.....

 

Then JPP gets hurt in his first year and is gone....FOR THE YEAR.

 

And because we have the benefit of now looking at this years later Nix screwed up.....what if JPP doesnt come back from that injury fully? What if he was a one year wonder to begin with? How does Nix have the benefit of knowing that JPP is a great player now back then? Does he have a time machine?

 

By the way guys....CJ Spiller is NOT a bust. He is at a disadvantage of playing behind a top 10 running back in the league in Freddie Jackson....and when FJ went down CJ put up some pretty darn good numbers and was player of the week at least one of those weeks (I would have to research that). We are gonna blame Nix for knowing he has a powder keg in Lynch (and was proven right this offseason) and a older running back in FJ? We are gonna blame Buddy for that? Really?

[BuffBill]

I don't get why everyone is so hung up on the 2010 draft. Getting two starters out of a draft is by no means "really terrible". Hell, New England has had a few "really terrible" drafts in the last 5 or 6 years. You know, years where not one drafted player was a starter.

Who are the two starters? Moats is projected to be one. Spiller is Jackson's backup.

[John from Riverside]

He is wrong about JPP but dead on when it comes to drafting Troup and Easley for need. Had they not made the ill-fated decision to switch to a 3-4 (seriously Kyle Williams at NT????) Troup would have never been drafted by this team. Easley was a ridiculous reach.

 

A 3rd round pick was a ridiculous reach? Really?

 

I love how people throw out the injuries when making these kind of conclusions.....Easley was looking GREAT when we drafted him....then he got hurt...which is of course Nix fault.

[BuffBill]

Why not? Wasn't he the general manager? Let's face it, 2010 was a very poor draft and it started with picking a scatback early in the 1st round. Regardless whether Spiller becomes a decent RB in this league (and after two years, that's far from certain), he was taken way too high. It's exactly the kind of decision that has put this franchise where it is today. Any GM who picks a RB in the top 30 should be fired on the spot. It is just too easy to find good running backs lower in the draft or in FA (see Fred Jackson). Cleveland, for example, was insane to use the third pick in the draft on a RB this year; I was praying that Richardson would be off the board when the Bills picked.

 

And as someone else pointed out, the 2011 draft is not really looking all that great, especially when one considers that pretty much anyone with half a brain could have selected Dareus with the first pick. And even that pick could be questioned when one considers that the two players selected after Dareus have already made the Pro Bowl, especially when one of them was at a major position of need (WR).

When the team had more holes then Swiss Cheese and two 1,000 yard rushers on the roster.

[stony]

JPP was not the BPA at 9 and would have been considered a major risk where we took him. I remember the draft pundits saying how a team with depth along the dine was the best place for him to land. Go figure the Giants took him.

 

Also the Bills were not necessarily in need of a DE given the perceived "year two leap" from the great Aaron Maybin.

 

Last, JPP's biggest claim to fame was his ability to too lots of backflips.

[John from Riverside]

When the team had more holes then Swiss Cheese and two 1,000 yard rushers on the roster.

 

One of which is finding it hard to stay out of trouble....the other is an elder statesman

[BuffBill]

One of which is finding it hard to stay out of trouble....the other is an elder statesman

Elder statesman? This is what you said about Fred Jackson a few minutes ago:

 

By the way guys....CJ Spiller is NOT a bust. He is at a disadvantage of playing behind a top 10 running back in the league in Freddie Jackson.

 

I guess you change your opinion to whatever you think will best support your argument.

[John from Riverside]

Elder statesman? This is what you said about Fred Jackson a few minutes ago:

 

By the way guys....CJ Spiller is NOT a bust. He is at a disadvantage of playing behind a top 10 running back in the league in Freddie Jackson.

 

I guess you change your opinion to whatever you think will best support your argument.

 

It doesnt change at all nor should it......a top 10 running back can still be OLD.....and older players tend to get HURT

[DrDawkinstein]

When the team had more holes then Swiss Cheese and two 1,000 yard rushers on the roster.

 

Who would you have taken in 2010? And dont say JPP because no one was taking him there. Look at the rest of the 1st round and tell me who you thought deserved that top-10 pick... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NFL_Draft

 

Are you wanting to reach for a need position, a la Jauron?

 

Look at that entire 1st round and let me know how many picks out of 32 are playing great football. Maybe Suh? Pouncey has been solid, but we had just drafted a Center.

[BuffBill]

Who would you have taken in 2010? And dont say JPP because no one was taking him there. Look at the rest of the 1st round and tell me who you thought deserved that top-10 pick... http://en.wikipedia..../2010_NFL_Draft

 

Are you wanting to reach for a need position, a la Jauron?

 

Look at that entire 1st round and let me know how many picks out of 32 are playing great football. Maybe Suh? Pouncey has been solid, but we had just drafted a Center.

If I had a choice I probably would have taken Brian Bulaga from the OT from Iowa, there was a much greater need there then at RB especially after trading Jason Peters. Maybe Jermaine Gresham, a much greater need there and probably still is. There were 6 Pro Bowlers picked after Spiller in the first round alone and one early in the 2nd round.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

After Troup going on IR for the season I was just thinking back to how awful Nix's first draft was for this team... I mean it is really terrible.

 

Spiller - hasn't produced enough at this point to justify the pick although a lot of upside here (best pick)

Troup - IR for 2nd straight season

Carrington - likely to be cut this year, never done anything as a Bill

Easley - injured the entire time he has been on the team, likely to be cut

Wang - trash

Moats - should make the team (2nd best pick.. not saying much)

Batten - likely to be cut

Levi Brown - trash

Calloway - trash

 

After cuts we are likely to only have Spiller and Moats playing this year... what a disaster this was.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Yep, and that's why most of your picks shouldn't come from small schools. I do think Buddy has learned his lesson though as the last two drafts have been big kids from big schools.

[BuffBill]

Yep, and that's why most of your picks shouldn't come from small schools. I do think Buddy has learned his lesson though as the last two drafts have been big kids from big schools.

He doesn't make many picks that aren't from the South East schools though-I guess they can understand each other when they talk.

[DrDawkinstein]

If I had a choice I probably would have taken Brian Bulaga from the OT from Iowa, there was a much greater need there then at RB especially after trading Jason Peters. Maybe Jermaine Gresham, a much greater need there and probably still is. There were 6 Pro Bowlers picked after Spiller in the first round alone and one early in the 2nd round.

 

With Bulaga, you just took a guy in the 1st where we filled that spot (RT) with a FA that went undrafted (Pears), and a 4th round pick (Hairston). And they are playing just as well as Bulaga.

 

We're taking top-10 pick, and Spiller was the consensus BPA at that time. Everything else is just hindsight. Especially when you look at who those 6 Pro-Bowlers are.

 

Edit: As John stated below, I do give you a lot of credit for actually answering. I liked Bulaga too, and was initially disappointed with the Spiller pick. However, I think time has proven that, out of our options, Spiller was and is the best pick available.

Edited August 24, 2012 by DrDareustein

[FitzShowUsYourTitz]

This thread sucks. Now let's do the 2009 and 2011 drafts. C'mon.

[todd]

I think the topic was the draft not the undrafted free agents?

 

Why not? UDFAs are an extension of the draft. Wouldn't you rather made a judgement with all availible information?

[John from Riverside]

If I had a choice I probably would have taken Brian Bulaga from the OT from Iowa, there was a much greater need there then at RB especially after trading Jason Peters. Maybe Jermaine Gresham, a much greater need there and probably still is. There were 6 Pro Bowlers picked after Spiller in the first round alone and one early in the 2nd round.

 

First...I appreciate that you actually gave an answer rather then ignore it like most do that are taking your position.....kudos on that

 

- Brian Bulaga (if you have not noticed) does not fit the mold of offensive linemen that Nix drafts.....Buddy likes his tackles extremely big and extremly LONG LIMBED.....Bulaga is a T Rex. I would also make the arguement that Bulaga has faired no better then Chris Hairston has thus far......and Green Bay wouldnt have dreamed of playing him at Left Tackle while the bills entrusted the LT spot to Hairston in his first year. He wasnt worth the slot where we drafted.

 

- Have you seen how much we use a Tight End in this offense? If Chan actually ran offenses that featured tight ends I could see that pick...but he doesnt. Even Chandler who is a Fitzpatrick favorite gives way to a blocking TE a lot of the time. I am a big believer in drafting talented players and Jermaine is that.....but how much would he actually be used here.

 

 

MEANWHILE.....you have CJ spiller who was rated where he was picked.....is fast as hell......is an excellent receiver....and had excellent consistant production coming out of college. What the bills did not figure on is just how long it was going to take him to pick up pass protection concepts. He looks like he is coming around in that area.

[Coach Tuesday]

First...I appreciate that you actually gave an answer rather then ignore it like most do that are taking your position.....kudos on that

 

- Brian Bulaga (if you have not noticed) does not fit the mold of offensive linemen that Nix drafts.....Buddy likes his tackles extremely big and extremly LONG LIMBED.....Bulaga is a T Rex. I would also make the arguement that Bulaga has faired no better then Chris Hairston has thus far......and Green Bay wouldnt have dreamed of playing him at Left Tackle while the bills entrusted the LT spot to Hairston in his first year. He wasnt worth the slot where we drafted.

 

- Have you seen how much we use a Tight End in this offense? If Chan actually ran offenses that featured tight ends I could see that pick...but he doesnt. Even Chandler who is a Fitzpatrick favorite gives way to a blocking TE a lot of the time. I am a big believer in drafting talented players and Jermaine is that.....but how much would he actually be used here.

 

 

MEANWHILE.....you have CJ spiller who was rated where he was picked.....is fast as hell......is an excellent receiver....and had excellent consistant production coming out of college. What the bills did not figure on is just how long it was going to take him to pick up pass protection concepts. He looks like he is coming around in that area.

 

I haven't ignored you - I was working, at my job, all afternoon.

 

You and others do not understand what BPA means. It means best player, regardless of need. It does NOT mean a four-year starter - if a "one-year wonder" is the best player when you're picking, he counts. And yes it can include hindsight - why can't it? Clearly JPP was the best player available at that spot. Nix the master scout didn't perceive it, but Jerry Reese (who is not only a better scout, but a much better team-builder as well) did realize it, and made the correct pick.

 

Is it fair to judge Nix based upon hindsight only, for not drafting one player with a short track record who everyone else passed on? NO. But when you consider that he proceeded to blow the next three picks in a row by drafting for need, it's fair to question whether his head was up his a$$ for that entire offseason, draft included.

[Ramius]

I haven't ignored you - I was working, at my job, all afternoon.

 

You and others do not understand what BPA means. It means best player, regardless of need. It does NOT mean a four-year starter - if a "one-year wonder" is the best player when you're picking, he counts. And yes it can include hindsight - why can't it? Clearly JPP was the best player available at that spot. Nix the master scout didn't perceive it, but Jerry Reese (who is not only a better scout, but a much better team-builder as well) did realize it, and made the correct pick.

 

Is it fair to judge Nix based upon hindsight only, for not drafting one player with a short track record who everyone else passed on? NO. But when you consider that he proceeded to blow the next three picks in a row by drafting for need, it's fair to question whether his head was up his a$$ for that entire offseason, draft included.

 

BPA means the best player on the draft board. Jason Pierre Paul wasn't the best player on the board. Not by a long shot. He had 1 decent season at a lower tier school in a low tier conference. There were numerous legit questions about him. HE HAD PLAYED 1 SEASON AT A MAJOR COLLEGE PROGRAM. All of these factors add into why he wasn't the best player on the draft board. He plays a premium position. If he was the BPA, he would have gone a lot higher than he did.

 

As for hindsight, please let me know when the NFL allows teams to re-draft using hindsight. Then and only then can you use hindsight to reorganize a draft board. This wasn't a Whitner over Ngata pick.

[Best Player Available]

A 3rd round pick was a ridiculous reach? Really?

 

I love how people throw out the injuries when making these kind of conclusions.....Easley was looking GREAT when we drafted him....then he got hurt...which is of course Nix fault.

 

Your logic contradicts Nix's theory of not being interested in 1 year wonders. Which Easley was, besides the fact that many people don't even know U-Conn has a football team.Easley Looking great is open to interpretation here.

[Coach Tuesday]

 

 

BPA means the best player on the draft board. Jason Pierre Paul wasn't the best player on the board. Not by a long shot. He had 1 decent season at a lower tier school in a low tier conference. There were numerous legit questions about him. HE HAD PLAYED 1 SEASON AT A MAJOR COLLEGE PROGRAM. All of these factors add into why he wasn't the best player on the draft board. He plays a premium position. If he was the BPA, he would have gone a lot higher than he did.

 

As for hindsight, please let me know when the NFL allows teams to re-draft using hindsight. Then and only then can you use hindsight to reorganize a draft board. This wasn't a Whitner over Ngata pick.

 

You don't think NFL teams evaluate their scouts and GMs using hindsight? Because that's what we're discussing here.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Your logic contradicts Nix's theory of not being interested in 1 year wonders. Which Easley was, besides the fact that many people don't even know U-Conn has a football team.Easley Looking great is open to interpretation here.

 

I must interject generally that anything discussed is just rules of thumb, and not international law though. "I prefer players with these traits" doesn't equate to "I will never ever look at someone that doesn't fit."

 

Not accusing you of missing that, just it normally gets lost reeeal fast in this discussion.

[Coach Tuesday]

 

 

With Bulaga, you just took a guy in the 1st where we filled that spot (RT) with a FA that went undrafted (Pears), and a 4th round pick (Hairston). And they are playing just as well as Bulaga.

 

We're taking top-10 pick, and Spiller was the consensus BPA at that time. Everything else is just hindsight. Especially when you look at who those 6 Pro-Bowlers are.

 

Edit: As John stated below, I do give you a lot of credit for actually answering. I liked Bulaga too, and was initially disappointed with the Spiller pick. However, I think time has proven that, out of our options, Spiller was and is the best pick available.

 

So it was pure coincidence that Gailey was insisting on a "waterbug" running back leading up to the draft and lo, they got one at 9 who just happened to be BPA. Face it: they went into that draft focused on NEED and obsessed with particular players to fill those needs. The result was a complete debacle.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Coach Tuesday