PTS Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 I don't know if anyone else has experienced this, but virtually every time I've flown into Buffalo over the past two years the approach into the airport has felt harrowing. Like we fly very low over houses for what seems like many minutes before landing - that low altitude combined with our typical crazy winds that seem to knock the airplane around, always has me at the edge of my seat. And this is usually in much larger aircraft. I had such an experience back in 2000/2001 when I took in a late flight from Philadelphia. I was originally coming home from DC but my flight got cancelled because of a blizzard in WNY. They flew us to Philly instead where we were supposed to wait until the morning to get back home. While at the airport, I found out that there was only one flight going into Buffalo that night and it was out of Philadelphia. The flight was on a different airline however. I went to their ticket desk and asked to see if they had any room and how much it would cost. It was a huge Boeing jet that "needed" to get to Buffalo that night -- why I don't know -- and the lady said there were only 20-30 people on it. She said she'd give me a ticket if I really wanted to get back home. I did and boy was that an intersting flight. Each person had about 10 full rows to themselves. Upon arrival, it was beyond a white out when we were approaching. The wind was bad as well. Out of nowhere I see Walden Galleria Mall right outside of my window, and I mean right outside, not under us. I braced myself because I thought that was it right there. I knew we were way too low. As soon as that happened, the pilot got on the comm to tell everyone to hold on as he went full throtle and pulled up real hard. We flew around WNY for about an hour before coming in again for a much easier arrival. As for as your point, living in Clarence Center, we've noticed for years that planes are very low when they land at that point ESPECIALLY in bad, cloudy weather. There are times when it sounds like it's going to crash into us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 IANAL, but that doesn't seem accurate to me - otherwise any photographing/recording of police officers could be considered "evidence in an investigation." I think they need a court order regardless. http://carlosmiller.com/2009/01/21/do-poli...te-your-camera/ I'd be interested to know the real legal answer on it though. Not under the new laws regarding terrorism. Also, police have been instructed to confiscate this stuff and deal with the rights violations later. I had a run in with Capitol Police a few years ago despite being a staffer there. Talking to the offices LT, he explained their non-written policy to me. I was polite and the said officer was reassigned, but was not reprimanded. My condolences to all those involved. I ran track against Clarence High, as an Amherst High Grad. My deepest sympathies go out to all those involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Alison des Forges, one of the world's foremost authorities on the genocide in Rwanda, and one of my mother's closest friends for decades, was on that plane. My mother had a surprise 80th birthday party a couple years ago. Alison had to circumvent the government in Rwanda to make it out of the country, flew to Buffalo to spend a few hours at the party, and then flew right back to Africa. It was an incredible gesture. Quite a lady and a huge loss. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh.../desforges.html This is her obit in the NYT. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/14/nyregion...orges.html?_r=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Alison des Forges, one of the world's foremost authorities on the genocide in Rwanda, and one of my mother's closest friends for decades, was on that plane. This whole this is a huge loss for the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Not sure what to do with this but here it is. It's a supposed eyewitness who crept onto the scene to get gruesome footage. His camera was confiscated and he was arrested but he gives a detailed account of what he saw. I highly doubt that an ABC employee would tell some neighborhood kid to go get some close up footage for them, knowing the liability involved if this kid got hurt. I also wonder how bodies were being pulled out of the plane in the middle of the night when as of mid-morning they said that the scene was still "very hot"? I guess anything is possible, but it seems like creative writing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax bill backer Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 this is truly a horrible devestation. One of the ones who was on the plane was here in jacksonville. she went to law school here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guffalo Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 2 members of Chuck Mangiones band, ( Ithink the band is from Rochester) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Alison des Forges, one of the world's foremost authorities on the genocide in Rwanda, and one of my mother's closest friends for decades, was on that plane. My mother had a surprise 80th birthday party a couple years ago. Alison had to circumvent the government in Rwanda to make it out of the country, flew to Buffalo to spend a few hours at the party, and then flew right back to Africa. It was an incredible gesture. Quite a lady and a huge loss. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh.../desforges.html Quite a loss, indeed. Sounds like Alison was a wonderful person. The more I read about this, the more it seems that someone here is closely affected by this tragedy. I can't express my sympathy enough for everyone in the area who may be affected by this tragedy in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Alison des Forges, one of the world's foremost authorities on the genocide in Rwanda, and one of my mother's closest friends for decades, was on that plane. My mother had a surprise 80th birthday party a couple years ago. Alison had to circumvent the government in Rwanda to make it out of the country, flew to Buffalo to spend a few hours at the party, and then flew right back to Africa. It was an incredible gesture. Quite a lady and a huge loss. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh.../desforges.html This is her obit in the NYT. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/14/nyregion...orges.html?_r=1 My condolences to the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Assuming that it's true -- his rights were violated. Authorities have no right to confiscate your film, even if you take photos/video while trespassing. Police will try to confiscate your camera even if you are not tresspassing, if they believe you are some how threatening homeland security. My understanding is they cannot take your camera. Now if you want to test the tresspassing part, go on Harlem road in Cheektowaga, and film the Bison and Frontier RR yards from the public overpasses. BUSTED for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest three3 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 i'll come back here to express my condolences. a family member lost 4 co-workers and friends on that flight, returning from a business trip. RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I highly doubt that an ABC employee would tell some neighborhood kid to go get some close up footage for them, knowing the liability involved if this kid got hurt. I also wonder how bodies were being pulled out of the plane in the middle of the night when as of mid-morning they said that the scene was still "very hot"? I guess anything is possible, but it seems like creative writing to me. he said he heard the plane crash but did not think anything of it. He waited until 1am to turn on the TV to find out what was happening? Not very believeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I don't know if anyone else has experienced this, but virtually every time I've flown into Buffalo over the past two years the approach into the airport has felt harrowing. Like we fly very low over houses for what seems like many minutes before landing - that low altitude combined with our typical crazy winds that seem to knock the airplane around, always has me at the edge of my seat. And this is usually in much larger aircraft. I seem to always have exactly the same experience. A few years ago I was flying to Buffalo - our flight actually got rerouted to Pitts b/c of bad weather in Buffalo - after a couple hours on the ground there we take off for Buffalo - and once we get to Buffalo - going through the usual turbulent descent - just at that point where the runway is in sight and you finally feel really safe - the engines go full throttle and we pull up in this loud wailing ascent. WTF!? The pilot gets on the radio after a few minutes - says just as we were about to hit the runway, he detected wind shear and pulled out of the landing. Funny - I never really had any discomfort flying until I had kids. When my kids were under a year old we took a trip to San Jose - on the flight out we are cruising down the runway and at top speed when all of a sudden the pilot hits the brakes and we are screechiing down the runway til we finally come to a stop. WTF!? You could smell the burning brakes. The pilot gets on after a couple minutes - just as we were reaching takeoff velocity a flock of birds flew in front of the plane so he aborted the takeoff. That same year w/ my kids just babies we few out of Buffalo after Xmas headed for LaGuardia. There was a NorEaster - and when we got to NYC they were putting planes in holding patterms while they tried to get the aircraft down in the horrible conditions - so we are circling around in the worst turbulence I have experienced for almost an hour - the longest hour of my life - all I could think was get the damn plane and my babies safely on the ground! After we finally landed all flights were cancelled - we were the last flight in - I was never so happy to be on the ground. Standing in the terminal waiting to talk to the desk about accomodations for the night - the windows of the terminal were all flexing from the ridiculous winds - I actually thought some might blow out while we were standing there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 IANAL, but that doesn't seem accurate to me - otherwise any photographing/recording of police officers could be considered "evidence in an investigation." I think they need a court order regardless. http://carlosmiller.com/2009/01/21/do-poli...te-your-camera/ I'd be interested to know the real legal answer on it though. The real legal answer is that if you are committing a crime, the police have the right to sieze evidence related to that crime. The kid was cited for tresspassing. His camera is evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 i'll come back here to express my condolences. a family member lost 4 co-workers and friends on that flight, returning from a business trip. RIP Northrup Grumman, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest three3 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Northrup Grumman, right? yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Alison des Forges, one of the world's foremost authorities on the genocide in Rwanda, and one of my mother's closest friends for decades, was on that plane. My mother had a surprise 80th birthday party a couple years ago. Alison had to circumvent the government in Rwanda to make it out of the country, flew to Buffalo to spend a few hours at the party, and then flew right back to Africa. It was an incredible gesture. Quite a lady and a huge loss. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh.../desforges.html This is her obit in the NYT. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/14/nyregion...orges.html?_r=1 NPR did a lengthy commentary on her today. Most incredible person! So sorry for your loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 yes My condolences to your family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Alison des Forges, one of the world's foremost authorities on the genocide in Rwanda, and one of my mother's closest friends for decades, was on that plane. My mother had a surprise 80th birthday party a couple years ago. Alison had to circumvent the government in Rwanda to make it out of the country, flew to Buffalo to spend a few hours at the party, and then flew right back to Africa. It was an incredible gesture. Quite a lady and a huge loss. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh.../desforges.html This is her obit in the NYT. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/14/nyregion...orges.html?_r=1 Sorry to hear that dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I live in CA and have no connection to the flight or people who lost their lives, but I have experienced sudden loss in my life and understand what a tragedy this is for those it has touched. All my prayers go out to those who lost their life in this terrible tragedy and my heavy heart goes out to the families who lost someone today. My deepest condolonces... Much love from CA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 So sorry for those who lost someone...can't say anything other than I will be praying for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I don't know if anyone else has experienced this, but virtually every time I've flown into Buffalo over the past two years the approach into the airport has felt harrowing. Like we fly very low over houses for what seems like many minutes before landing - that low altitude combined with our typical crazy winds that seem to knock the airplane around, always has me at the edge of my seat. And this is usually in much larger aircraft. I agree. I came in this christmas and I thought the plane was going to start cartwheeling just before we landed. Sheeeeeeesh. My stomache was in my throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I agree. I came in this christmas and I thought the plane was going to start cartwheeling just before we landed. Sheeeeeeesh. My stomache was in my throat. The last time that I flew into Buffalo the landing was extremely tense. The whole cabin broke into applause when we were safely on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 The last time that I flew into Buffalo the landing was extremely tense. The whole cabin broke into applause when we were safely on the ground. I've had Buffalo landings like that too... I've a buddy that's a Delta pilot, I'll ask him if he's ever flown into Buffalo and why that happens if I see him this weekend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Easy, easy. They are safe. Those Dash 8s are like the Toyota Corolla of air travel. Very solid aircraft. I dont care how solid the Dash 8 is. Any turboprop is a POS to fly on during any type of non-perfect weather. I'll double check my flights when i know the weather will be bad to make sure one of the legs isn't on a fuggin turboprop. Those are also the beliefs of my old man who was a mechanic for USAirways for 13 years. The general sentiment throughout the airline was that turboprops are sh-- during any kind of inclement weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest three3 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 don't be too harsh on the pilots/airlines. i flew into buffalo a couple weeks back and there were no problems at all. smoothest flight ever. the pilots do the best with what they have to work with, put the blame on mother nature or the plane's manufacturer (possibly, time will tell) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Bills fan Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I just heard the news here. My prayers go out to all of you up there. I guess my niece is really good friends with the gal whose house it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 One of my co-workers, his wife's aunt & uncle were on the flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 One of my best friend's dad was on the plane. He was one of the nicest guys I've ever had the privilege to know, and the family is in such bad pain right now. I heard that 50 people died, and for some reason I just let myself assume I didn't know any of the deceased. A few hours ago, I got a call from another friend and the news just devastated me. I can't believe this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornerville Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 One of my best friend's dad was on the plane. He was one of the nicest guys I've ever had the privilege to know, and the family is in such bad pain right now. I heard that 50 people died, and for some reason I just let myself assume I didn't know any of the deceased. A few hours ago, I got a call from another friend and the news just devastated me. I can't believe this. Sage, very sorry to hear about your best friends loss. I will keep you and your friends family in my thoughts and prayers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 One of my best friend's dad was on the plane. He was one of the nicest guys I've ever had the privilege to know, and the family is in such bad pain right now. I heard that 50 people died, and for some reason I just let myself assume I didn't know any of the deceased. A few hours ago, I got a call from another friend and the news just devastated me. I can't believe this. awful.sorry. I cant imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I dont care how solid the Dash 8 is. Any turboprop is a POS to fly on during any type of non-perfect weather. I'll double check my flights when i know the weather will be bad to make sure one of the legs isn't on a fuggin turboprop. Those are also the beliefs of my old man who was a mechanic for USAirways for 13 years. The general sentiment throughout the airline was that turboprops are sh-- during any kind of inclement weather. I hate to take this thread in another direction given its going more towards the human side of things but what youre saying and what your old man is saying is...with all due respect.......and IMO.......crap. Why? Two model numbers for you: C-130 E-2 Those two aircraft are two of the best "all conditions" aicraft flying today and are both....turboprops. And to boot, as military planes they fly in and out of conditions that commercial pilots wouldnt dream of flying in due to the need to keep passengers comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Wing Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I lived in Clarence; parent still in that house, in between the crash site and the airport. I used to hate when planes used that approach - all conversation stopped while they went over. The crash site is roughly 8-9 miles from the airport (my parents house in between at about 4 miles from the airport). I looked on the map - it looked like the intersection we used to refer to as "four corners" - am I right? I used to date a girl that lived a few houses down from the intersection. When I lived there, there was a whole lotta nothing outside those few blocks, too. Tragic. Thoughts and prayers out to my hometown folks. You are correct. It's called the "Four Corners." I grew up in Clarence. Parents still live there - they live about half-a-dozen miles from the crash site. I've been gone for about 15 years now - still miss Western New York very much. My wife received a call at 6:30 AM this morning from one of her friends. Turns out her friend's dad was on the flight. Tough day for many people. Buffalo will come through as a shining example of what "community" means during this tragedy! Thoughts and prayers to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I dont care how solid the Dash 8 is. Any turboprop is a POS to fly on during any type of non-perfect weather. I'll double check my flights when i know the weather will be bad to make sure one of the legs isn't on a fuggin turboprop. Those are also the beliefs of my old man who was a mechanic for USAirways for 13 years. The general sentiment throughout the airline was that turboprops are sh-- during any kind of inclement weather. The turbo prop single engine DeHavlland otter is one of the best bush planes in the world. I have seen them do much harder work then landing in Buffalo-in all weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 The turbo prop single engine DeHavlland otter is one of the best bush planes in the world. I have seen them do much harder work then landing in Buffalo-in all weather. Why argue over trivial mattters. Some people have no class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Why argue over trivial mattters. Some people have no class. Who was arguing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Sage, very sorry to hear about your best friends loss. I will keep you and your friends family in my thoughts and prayers Thanks a lot. My friend's mom is a really well-liked teacher at Lancaster Middle School, so the community is already really starting to rally around the family. My friends and I are going to put together a function to raise some money, probably a Chinese Auction of sorts. PM me if you live in/close to Lancaster and are interested in attending. I'm sure that Continental is going to be compensating the families to a great extent, but it still seems like something worth doing, if only to prove that they have the town's support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Thanks a lot. My friend's mom is a really well-liked teacher at Lancaster Middle School, so the community is already really starting to rally around the family. My friends and I are going to put together a function to raise some money, probably a Chinese Auction of sorts. PM me if you live in/close to Lancaster and are interested in attending. I'm sure that Continental is going to be compensating the families to a great extent, but it still seems like something worth doing, if only to prove that they have the town's support. all my condolences sage to you and their family as well as the families of all the other unfortunate victims... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Thanks a lot. My friend's mom is a really well-liked teacher at Lancaster Middle School, so the community is already really starting to rally around the family. My friends and I are going to put together a function to raise some money, probably a Chinese Auction of sorts. PM me if you live in/close to Lancaster and are interested in attending. I'm sure that Continental is going to be compensating the families to a great extent, but it still seems like something worth doing, if only to prove that they have the town's support. That's horrible about your friend. My best to you and their family. It looks like some positive is coming from this. He would probably be very proud of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Yes -de-icing boots. The high wing placement was mentioned by one the phone-in pilots, in the context that it is not very viewable from the cockpit. He did mention that the wipers can be a tip-off. That's true. The posts where the wipers are mounted are always prone to early icing and since the Pilot's can't see the wings, without going back into the cabin and looking out a window, the wiper post is a very useful visual indicator of ice accumulation. Even if Anti-ice was on, and I have to believe that it was, it won't provide unlimited protection. That's why you never fly into "known" icing conditions for any length of time. American lost an ATR (high wing Turbo Prop.) in Indiana, that was put into a holding pattern in icing conditions. After that accident American shifted all the ATR's down South to limit their potential exposure to serious icing conditions. Despite that crash, no rules were ever adopted to keep aircraft out of icing conditions. FedEx just lost an ATR last week in Lubbock Texas, that could have been caused by ice. The FAA and more recently the NTSB are becomming so politicized that even when the final cause is known, the chances of preventive rules being enacted are going to be very slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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