Is Hawes in the process of surpassing Knox as TE2??

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

 

Hawes was brought in to replace and upgrade from Quintin Morris as the Blocking TE (and significantly so) on this team. When the time comes and Knox is moved on, they'll bring in his replacement in the passing game then.

Hawes may have been drafted as a blocker but he has sure hands. 4 targets - 4 receptions. By comparison, Knox has 8 targets - 4 receptions. 

Sometimes players surprise you. It is too early to say that Hawes won't develop into a receiving option at least equivalent to Knox who has a history of dropsies. 

Knox either has to agree to a major restructure or will be gone next off season. Whether we draft/acquire another TE with receiving skills depends on what Hawes shows the rest of this season. 

The whole narrative about Knox being kept because he is Josh 's buddy is over-blown.

Imo

Edited September 30 by Fan in Chicago

[PromoTheRobot]

No. The Bills are saving certain plays and players for later in the season. We are that deep. 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

What I'm saying is that Hawes will not be switching his role from an incredibly integral part of our Offense as a Blocker to becoming someone who's running routes all the time, like Knox. 

 

I know what you said. Without any evidence whatsoever. 

 

Knox is blocking a large share of his snaps. He is not running routes all the time.

 

It is entirely too early to say what Hawes will become. Right now, he is blocking like a mad man and catching everything thrown his way. And the better he blocks the more dangerous he will be as a pass catcher.

 

17 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

It is too early to say that Hawes won't develop into a receiving option at least equivalent to Knox who has a history of dropsies. 

 

It’s hilarious watching Billsfanforever19 spin his wheels insisting that he knows the Bills plans for Hawes after 4 games 😂.

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Hawes may have been drafted as a blocker but he has sure hands. 4 targets - 4 receptions. By comparison, Knox has 8 targets - 4 receptions. 

Sometimes players surprise you. It is too early to say that Hawes won't develop into a receiving option at least equivalent to Knox who has a history of dropsies. 

Knox either has to agree to a major restructure or will be gone next off season. Whether we draft/acquire another TE with receiving skills depends on what Hawes shows the rest of this season. 

The whole narrative about Knox being kept because he is Josh 's buddy is over-blown.

Imo

Knox will restructure, and retire a Bill.  

Dawson is a very useful player who grades very well this season.  Knox is an excellent blocker, and he runs deeper routes than Hawes.  A couple Knox drops were deep throws which were contested.

 

In the playoffs, Dawson has caught the first TD in 3 of the last 4 games.  
 

Josh trusts Dawson.  Together, they have made many, many great plays.  Dawson has had Josh’s back since 2019.  They have enjoyed all of the Bills amazing run the 6 years together.

 

Dawson has Bills DNA in spades.

 

Knox will restructure, and retire a Bill

[boyst]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Hawes outsnapped all other tight ends in this game with 31. Knox was second with 24. Kincaid 22. 

 

For the season Knox leads tight end snaps with 145, Kincaid 134, Hawes 108. 

 

Hawes has earned his snaps and Kincaid has shown some improvements as a blocker but Knox is still the guy that gives the Bills the most flexibility when he is on the field. He remains the most "two-way" of the tight ends. That's why he is continuing to get snaps. 

 

I shouldn't shock anyone. There is no way he plays on his 2026 number. So he is either cut before then or he renegotiates, extends and takes a pay cut. 

Hawes earned his snaps and helped out blocking. I didn't keep count and wish someone would have to know - but I bet he helped a lot on the right side with Van Denmark.

[Big Turk]

Gameplan specific?

 

Bills probably do more game plan specific personnel things on offense than any other team.

[mjt328]

9 hours ago, Special K said:

The Bills didn't run the 3 TE sets too much in the game, and it seemed to me there was a lot of Kincaid and Hawes in the 2 TE sets.

 

Hawes comp seems to be a Knox who can actually catch the ball when thrown to him.

 

If Hawes continues to develop above expectations, there is a high chance Knox will be a Cap Casualty in the Off-season...... let's enjoy the 3 TE sets while they last.....

 

The Bills are going to be a different team on offense every single week, depending on the opponent and game plan.

 

Even if they didn't do it on Sunday against the Saints, I think Joe Brady really likes the ability to run 3-Tight End sets.  

 

[BuffaloRebound]

Knox does a lot of things well, but his hands are so bad that you can’t really throw him the ball more than 5 yards past LOS.  Could see him taking a huge paycut and lining up more as a Fullback going forward.  

[Paup 1995MVP]

2 hours ago, SoMAn said:

Knox is 'Mr. Brightside'. He's not going anywhere. Don't overlook the chemistry that Beane has built into this team. Knox is an entrenched 'Allen guy',  

They always carry 3 TEs anyway. No great need to make changes at that position quite yet.

When Kincaid is up for a contract in a couple of years that may change. They'll probably want to re-sign him. By that time Knox will be 30-ish, and still have some value on the trade market. 

I don't know how they manage their cap, but they may limit how much they want to allot to that position group. 

But, to answer the OP, I think Hawes could eventually be TE 1 or TE 2. We haven't seen enough targets to him yet to truly evaluate his value as a pass catcher/route runner.

Right now, Hawes is a great addition to a group of tenacious blockers helping James Cook to be a weekly threat. I'm good with that for now.

 

Knox is ok.  He is a good teammate and blocker.  Makes a few big catches every year.  But doesn’t have real good hands.

 

He can be replaced if he doesn’t take a big pay cut after the season.  The love that he gets on this board for being an overall mediocre NFL player is curious to me. 

[ddaryl]

agree with the consensus.. Knox makes too much money and will need to take a paycut to stay in Buffalo, and I feel he would be williing to do this since he loves Josh Allen and the Bills. 

[Captain Hindsight]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

No. The Bills are saving certain plays and players for later in the season. We are that deep. 

[JP51]

So I dont see him as surpassing...  I see Hawes as a Lee Smith with downfield pass catching ability but a voracious blocker... quite honestly the 3 tight end set with 3 guys that can catch is an interesting thing for a defense to have to defend...  I think Hawes has played well, really well, but he is still a rookie... I think if he continues his trajectory this won't be  a replace Knox, but it may be a makes him expendable...  in the end though, I have rarely seen effective 3 TE offenses to me this is a new wrinkle that maybe we are even ahead of the game on...  Bottom line, I think Knox is here thru his contract...  I think the roles are a bit nuanced and he may lose some snaps, but I also think that there is a place for all of them... 

[YoloinOhio]

41 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

agree with the consensus.. Knox makes too much money and will need to take a paycut to stay in Buffalo, and I feel he would be williing to do this since he loves Josh Allen and the Bills. 

His wife is also from Buffalo and they are expecting, I think her whole family is there. Now ofc that doesn’t mean he won’t go elsewhere for a payday but I’m not sure he’s going to find one. You never know. 

[billybob71]

He already has, the kid is awesome

[HamptonBillsfan]

Knox, as much Josh loves him,,never catches a 50/50 ball and drops too many catchable balls. He doesn’t make important plays and takes up too much cap space. He should be a trade candidate or one of the first casualties of the additions coming after game six. Maybe a change of scenery will jumpstart his career.

[BRH]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

No. The Bills are saving certain plays and players for later in the season. We are that deep. 

 

This.

 

You can argue whether it meant we took the Saints too "lightly," but certain guys like Hawes were rewarded for their work by getting more snaps, which allowed us to manage the load on Knox.  We also got Samuel into a game, which cut down on Palmer's snaps -- and I doubt Samuel would have played if we were facing a different opponent.  It's also becoming clear that Oliver, Milano, and Brown might have been able to play this past Sunday, but were held out so they could heal more, and other guys got valuable reps.  This is what happens when you have a deep roster.

 

[SoMAn]

1 hour ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Knox is ok.  He is a good teammate and blocker.  Makes a few big catches every year.  But doesn’t have real good hands.

 

He can be replaced if he doesn’t take a big pay cut after the season.  The love that he gets on this board for being an overall mediocre NFL player is curious to me. 

I agree that he's a mediocre TE.  Maybe because of his experience and knowledge, slightly better than average at the position.

I'm just not sure you should discount his contributions to the overall team chemistry and the bond he's built over the past several years with Josh. Down the road his salary may make him a cap casualty, but not before they have to address contracts for Kincaid and Hawes, which are at least a couple years away.

[GASabresIUFan]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He hasn't. I posted them above. Knox leads Bills tight ends in snaps.

 

Positional splits for the year: 

Hawes - 90 of his 108 snaps have been inline, 16 in the slot and 2 split wide;

Knox - 96 of his 145 snaps have been inline, 29 in the slot, 17 split wide and 3 in the backfield;

Kincaid - 51 of his 134 snaps have been inline, 55 in the slot, 28 split wide;

 

That shows you how the three guys are used pretty differently. They use Kincaid primarily as a matchup weapon in the passing game, the use Knox as a versatile chess piece who can play in multiple packages and they use Hawes really as an inline blocking tight end who occasionally will chip then leak out. 

 

They are not really fighting one another for snaps. Their usage game by game is more about gameplan and personnel packages. 

 

We don’t often agree, but this is a great post.  It did get me thinking about how Josh is distributing the ball by position group.  This is a calculation based on general classification of the receiver vs where the player lined up on a particular play.

 

1. Wideouts (Coleman, Palmer, Shavers) - 42 targets, 29 receptions, 365 yards, 1 TD - Coleman 17/22 203 yds 1 TD

2. TE (Kincaid, Knox, Hawes) - 30, 25, 272, 4 - Kincaid 14/18 179 3 TDs, Hawes 4/4

3. Slot WR (Shakir, Moore, Samuel) - 27, 21, 263, 2 - Shakir 16/20 190 yds 2 TDs, Moore 4/5

4. RB (Cook, Johnson, Davis) - 20, 14, 96, 0 - Cook has 12 catches on 13 targets for 89 yards. Johnson only 1/5

 

My reaction to these stats are we need more Kincaid, Johnson needs to step up, but Josh is really spreading the ball around.  12 different receivers in only 4 games and Josh is averaging 9.1 yards per pass attempt to the WRs, slots guys and TEs.  Only “regular” without a catch is FB Gilliam.  I suspect more quick throws against NE with Brown out of the lineup.  

Edited September 30 by GASabresIUFan

[T master]

Personally I hope Knox stays but like most players if Beane baulks at a new contract I think Knox will go to the highest bidder I could be wrong but that is the NFL today !! 

 

I think his perfect team may be the Titans seeing as he is a home town guy but I hope he retires a Buffalo Bill !

[Virgil]

I've said this before, but don't undervalue the fact that Knox is best friends with Josh.  Knox will probably always be willing to take less money to stay here as well.