nedboy7 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Lot of hate on here for a guy who actually did the team a huge favor. This is a huge gift to the Bills. He did not have to do this in anyway. 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 7 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: Lot of hate on here for a guy who actually did the team a huge favor. This is a huge gift to the Bills. He did not have to do this in anyway. What are the details of what he did? I read he gave up 2M in guarantees but can earn that back and then some based on incentives? So he gave the bills some downside protection but he got some upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 3 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said: What are the details of what he did? I read he gave up 2M in guarantees but can earn that back and then some based on incentives? So he gave the bills some downside protection but he got some upside. he gave up a TON of guaranteed money 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 minute ago, Warriorspikes51 said: he gave up a TON of guaranteed money Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 I expect von to have a very good year next year. That will hurt the cap number, but maybe it won't feel so bad if he's a difference maker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 29 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: he gave up a TON of guaranteed money Do you know the specifics or where I can see that? How much is a ton? I am interested in the before and after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: No, I never said that was the contract. What I said was that Von wouldn't have signed the contract if there weren't something like some NLTBE incentives in there. The player and team would have to agree on what those incentives would be. Looks like I was right about that and (mostly) right about how those incentives work. Obviously Von didn't get a sack last year and his incentives start at 2 sacks. I wonder if there's a $500k incentive for 1 sack of if there's a clause in the incentive verbiage that because of his natural position as an edge rusher, there's a baseline of expectation on the position based on the agreed upon metric. Like 1 sack for an edge rusher if sacks are the agreed upon metric. But if it were tackles and Von didn't have any tackles last year it would have been 1 tackle so he would need at least 2. Or for a WR if they 1 reception would probably be what the WR would want over 1 TD, etc. That's just my guess. But you can go look yourself. NLTBE incentives are based on prior year's performance. And I think everyone would want him to earn all of his money back. On 3/6/2024 at 6:29 PM, transplantbillsfan said: Actually I think he legitimately thinks he can still play and this new deal gives him the opportunity to earn more than what he was scheduled to earn. Think about it folks... you can almost guarantee that 2 of the "hard to reach incentives" put in his contract are tackles and sacks. That means if he gets more tackles than 2023, he reaches that incentive and earns more. That wouldn't be hard considering he had 3 tackles If he gets more sacks than in 2023, he reaches that incentive and earns more. That wouldn't be hard considering he had 0 sacks. My bet is another incentive will be games played or active, and considering he started the season on PUP, that might not be hard for him, either. So yes, this is a solid for Buffalo, but he may legitimately believe he's about to earn more than he was scheduled... and all of that money goes on next year's CAP. On 3/6/2024 at 6:24 PM, transplantbillsfan said: Super interesting, but I bet those "hard to reach incentives" were attainable in Von's eyes, which is why he agreed to it. 6 hours ago, MAJBobby said: The Full renegotiated terms So there is that little 7M cap ticket in Roster Bonus that could free up more money in a week if needed converting it to a signing and prorating. Here is to VON hitting all incentives and maximizing the deal, Likely means Bills won a SB. If this is "mostly right," I'm Miles Davis. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trev Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, nedboy7 said: Lot of hate on here for a guy who actually did the team a huge favor. This is a huge gift to the Bills. He did not have to do this in anyway. Huge favor? Try again. He’s lucky he wasn’t cut after the domestic abuse incident. Plus we kept him active and in games last year when he should’ve been on IR all year, making us short handed on D. His lack of production essentially cost us a superbowl. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said: Do you know the specifics or where I can see that? How much is a ton? I am interested in the before and after. 8.65 Mil this year. And 5sih following year I believe. Also the restructure gives them an out after this year. Edited March 8 by nedboy7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Just now, nedboy7 said: 8.65 Mil this year. And 5sih following year I believe. That is cap savings not guarantees. Big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 minute ago, Matt_In_NH said: That is cap savings not guarantees. Big difference. Miller has agreed to. cut his base pay this year from $17.5 million to $8.855 million, according to Field Yates of ESPN. That will save the Bills $8.645 million. At first glance, it appears that Miller took a pay cut to help the team out. Miller didn’t have to do anything: Before this renegotiation, his contract guaranteed him $10.71 million for 2024, and he could have told the Bills he’s holding them to the contract that both sides agreed to, and he’s not budging. Instead, Miller took significantly less. The deal does have upside for Miller in incentives that could push his pay all the way up to $20 million for 2024. We don’t know what those incentives are yet, but a player like Miller — who’s 35 years old and has seen his production decline significantly — typically wouldn’t be expected to hit a lot of incentives at this point in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 40 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: Miller has agreed to. cut his base pay this year from $17.5 million to $8.855 million, according to Field Yates of ESPN. That will save the Bills $8.645 million. At first glance, it appears that Miller took a pay cut to help the team out. Miller didn’t have to do anything: Before this renegotiation, his contract guaranteed him $10.71 million for 2024, and he could have told the Bills he’s holding them to the contract that both sides agreed to, and he’s not budging. Instead, Miller took significantly less. The deal does have upside for Miller in incentives that could push his pay all the way up to $20 million for 2024. We don’t know what those incentives are yet, but a player like Miller — who’s 35 years old and has seen his production decline significantly — typically wouldn’t be expected to hit a lot of incentives at this point in his career. This has some information but not everything. Guess it doesn't really matter. Anyway, his base is cut from $17.5 million to $8.855 which saves 8.645 on the cap...that is not guarantees that is cap. His guarantee for 2024 was 10.71M. What is it now? Also, some of that Here is another nugget online ". They moved more cap into the future by converting some of that compensation into a bonus and prorating it, but the details of that remain unclear." So some of the cap decrease is not just a paycut, I contend the paycut is not that signficant, they are giving him the opportunity to make it all up and then some, so it was a trade off of guarantees for a high ceiling for Von. The restructure saved a lot of cap, did not reduce his guarantees a "TON". They accomplished this by some traditional restructure....converting salary to bonus and prorating it and some by a change in the guarantees for 24 with the NLTBE incentives. Over the cap mentions the details are not out "Miller accepted a pay cut in 2024 reducing his salary from $17.5 million to $8.885 million per ESPN's Field Yates. We have updated his contract figures for 2024 based on a handful of reports about the pay reduction and will update further when we receive more information on the contract." Anyway, the cap reduction is what people care about but tit is not being as widely reported that they did bonus proration which is not great for his situation. According to multiple reports, the Bills and linebacker Von Miller agreed to terms on a contract restructure. NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports that Miller's 2024 base salary of $17.145 million was lowered to $8.5 million. Additionally, there are "reachable incentives" that can get him back to earning $17.145 million and additional, higher incentives to bring him nearly $20 million. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2024/3/7/24093419/von-miller-updated-2024-contract-details-with-incentives-explained https://fansided.com/posts/bills-continue-free-up-cap-space-restructuring-von-miller-contract-01hrb563tgtt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 3 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said: he gave up a TON of guaranteed money a ton of not yet guaranteed money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) FA DL incoming?!! Edited March 8 by RyanC883 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 2 hours ago, FireChans said: If this is "mostly right," I'm Miles Davis. Your Wife must be proud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 26 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: FA DL incoming?!! If he makes it to Monday, Chris Jones would be the most impactful acquisition possible. He’s 29. Would you give him a 5 year 150 mil deal? I’m guessing that’s ballpark of what he’ll sign for. He’s likely All-Pro level for 3 more seasons IMO Edited March 8 by Warriorspikes51 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterStrategist Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said: This has some information but not everything. Guess it doesn't really matter. Anyway, his base is cut from $17.5 million to $8.855 which saves 8.645 on the cap...that is not guarantees that is cap. His guarantee for 2024 was 10.71M. What is it now? Also, some of that Here is another nugget online ". They moved more cap into the future by converting some of that compensation into a bonus and prorating it, but the details of that remain unclear." So some of the cap decrease is not just a paycut, I contend the paycut is not that signficant, they are giving him the opportunity to make it all up and then some, so it was a trade off of guarantees for a high ceiling for Von. The restructure saved a lot of cap, did not reduce his guarantees a "TON". They accomplished this by some traditional restructure....converting salary to bonus and prorating it and some by a change in the guarantees for 24 with the NLTBE incentives. Over the cap mentions the details are not out "Miller accepted a pay cut in 2024 reducing his salary from $17.5 million to $8.885 million per ESPN's Field Yates. We have updated his contract figures for 2024 based on a handful of reports about the pay reduction and will update further when we receive more information on the contract." Anyway, the cap reduction is what people care about but tit is not being as widely reported that they did bonus proration which is not great for his situation. According to multiple reports, the Bills and linebacker Von Miller agreed to terms on a contract restructure. NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports that Miller's 2024 base salary of $17.145 million was lowered to $8.5 million. Additionally, there are "reachable incentives" that can get him back to earning $17.145 million and additional, higher incentives to bring him nearly $20 million. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2024/3/7/24093419/von-miller-updated-2024-contract-details-with-incentives-explained https://fansided.com/posts/bills-continue-free-up-cap-space-restructuring-von-miller-contract-01hrb563tgtt Spotrac tells a different story, than you're referencing above. Salary: all agree that was reduced significantly Cap in 2024: all agree this reduced by approx $8m 2024 Roster bonus: Spotrac shows this as "non guaranteed" (but ability to convert to signing bonus). This is where the difference lies with what you stated above. 2024 Guaranteed $: not yet clear, but if the roster bonus isn't guaranteed, then we're talking somewhere close to 8.5m as gtd $. And your original $10m estimate was low, it was closer to $17m for 2024 Incentives: yes these could put Von in better $ situation, but I personally like the "pay for performance" incentives (which don't count against cap) Future cap years: I'm not seeing how our future cap is implicated at all. Unless his roster bonus was indeed "guaranteed"/amortized across remaining years of deal (which would add approx $2m to each future year) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 3 hours ago, Trev said: Huge favor? Try again. He’s lucky he wasn’t cut after the domestic abuse incident. Plus we kept him active and in games last year when he should’ve been on IR all year, making us short handed on D. His lack of production essentially cost us a superbowl. Keeping him active and in games is not on Von Miller, it’s on his coaches and medical staff who determined he was a better option than another player and inserted him in the lineup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 7 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said: This has some information but not everything. Guess it doesn't really matter. Anyway, his base is cut from $17.5 million to $8.855 which saves 8.645 on the cap...that is not guarantees that is cap. His guarantee for 2024 was 10.71M. What is it now? Also, some of that Here is another nugget online ". They moved more cap into the future by converting some of that compensation into a bonus and prorating it, but the details of that remain unclear." So some of the cap decrease is not just a paycut, I contend the paycut is not that signficant, they are giving him the opportunity to make it all up and then some, so it was a trade off of guarantees for a high ceiling for Von. The restructure saved a lot of cap, did not reduce his guarantees a "TON". They accomplished this by some traditional restructure....converting salary to bonus and prorating it and some by a change in the guarantees for 24 with the NLTBE incentives. Over the cap mentions the details are not out "Miller accepted a pay cut in 2024 reducing his salary from $17.5 million to $8.885 million per ESPN's Field Yates. We have updated his contract figures for 2024 based on a handful of reports about the pay reduction and will update further when we receive more information on the contract." Anyway, the cap reduction is what people care about but tit is not being as widely reported that they did bonus proration which is not great for his situation. According to multiple reports, the Bills and linebacker Von Miller agreed to terms on a contract restructure. NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports that Miller's 2024 base salary of $17.145 million was lowered to $8.5 million. Additionally, there are "reachable incentives" that can get him back to earning $17.145 million and additional, higher incentives to bring him nearly $20 million. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2024/3/7/24093419/von-miller-updated-2024-contract-details-with-incentives-explained https://fansided.com/posts/bills-continue-free-up-cap-space-restructuring-von-miller-contract-01hrb563tgtt Before the move his CAP hit in 2024 was $23.5m. $17.5m was guaranteed. This was made up of $6m of bonuses all of which have already been paid (2022 signing bonus and 2023 restructure bonus) which existed on the 2024 cap already and still do - so they are irrelevant for this purpose. And a $17.5m base salary of which $11m was fully guaranteed. What Von and the Bills have done affects only that base salary element. Pre pay cut $11m guaranteed $6.5m that was unguaranteed but due to guarantee on 18/03/24. Post pay cut $1.5m guaranteed $7m roster bonus (which would normally guarantee when the league year starts on the 13th and I can't see anything that disputes that) Therefore while at the point that Von did the deal he was only cutting his guarantees from $11m to essentially $8.5m, so a cut of $2.5m, the reality is if he was going to be on the team (and I say this as someone who was advocating a post 1 June cut) he was about to get an additional $6.5m guranteed. So in reality all of that cap saving ($9m by my calcs because I have rounded everything to the nearest 0.5 for ease of explanation but in reality $8.8m) is pay cut money that Von has left on the table. Two further points: 1. The Bills could still get further cap relief by converting the roster bonus into a restructure bonus which would spread the $7m across 4 years and save a futher $5m on this year's cap. 2. Next year's cap is totally unaffected UNTIL Von earns any of the incentive money back which would land on the 2025 cap. Spotrac now has the "earn back" elements listed as: 2024 Sack Incentives (non-cumulative) 2: $1M 4: $2.5M 6: $4M 8: $6M 10.5: $8.645M 15: $9.645M $1.5M for an AFC Championship Win + 30%+ snaps + 12 regular season snaps Edited March 8 by GunnerBill 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 The one very large point that most people are missing is that the Bills may have been able to void the guarantees in Miller’s contract due to his off the field issues. That would have allowed them to cut him with no additional money owed. Part of the negotiation was obviously to avoid that fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 On 3/6/2024 at 6:16 PM, Dablitzkrieg said: Von was not restructured. The team doesn’t have to inform a player they are converting salary to signing bonus to smooth out the cap hit. This was a si place agreed upon pay cut, and the team was right. Von isn’t stupid. He knows he didn’t do Jack last year. He also knows if he comes back to form he creates motivation for a pay increase in a year. I doubt that happens, but I’m so proud of Beane making the hard choices on contracts. We will get younger with 11 picks. My guess is we move up a couple times and settle in on 7-8 picks. As long as the 1st round is WR and eventually a D Lineman. I know we need a safety or two, and another mid round WR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 12 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: The one very large point that most people are missing is that the Bills may have been able to void the guarantees in Miller’s contract due to his off the field issues. That would have allowed them to cut him with no additional money owed. Part of the negotiation was obviously to avoid that fight. While this is possibly true it wasn't going to happen before they needed to make the decision (i.e. 10 days time). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: While this is possibly true it wasn't going to happen before they needed to make the decision (i.e. 10 days time). But it certainly could have happened before the season began and his salary was paid. And teams can go after some signing bonus money too. Also we don’t know what clauses related to off the field incidents are in the contract. It’s not like Von hasn’t had those before. I’m sure Beane was smart enough to cover his butt on a deal this big with a guy how has had some issues in the past. Edited March 8 by BarleyNY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 3 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: But it certainly could have happened before the season began and his salary was paid. And teams can go after some signing bonus money too. Also we don’t know what clauses related to off the field incidents are in the contract. It’s not like Von hasn’t had those before. I’m sure Beane was smart enough to cover his butt on a deal this big with a guy how has had some issues in the past. Again, true, but the Bills needed to make a decision now. They couldn't bet on being in a position to do a claw back later. Von had the leverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Von realized the only chance he has to improve his post career public image and brand at this point is to produce something on the field. The renegotiation makes that at least theoretically possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 41 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Again, true, but the Bills needed to make a decision now. They couldn't bet on being in a position to do a claw back later. Von had the leverage. That depends on the specific contract language, which we obviously don’t have. I think it’s pretty safe to assume that an attempt to void guarantees was at least going to be a fight. And probably a bad look for the org. So Beane absolutely did the right thing here. My point was that this wasn’t some pure act of kindness on Miller’s part. He was still looking out for himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 17 hours ago, CA OC Bills Fan said: Yeah, I just read the terms that were posted above after posting my response to NoSaint. Even though Miller is one of the most positive people I've heard, I doubt even he believes he's going to get 15 sacks or even the 10.5 that he'd need to earn $8.645 bonus. But, perhaps 8 sacks to earn $6 million? Obviously, as unlikely as it is, we'll all root for him to get the 15 sacks and earn the full bonus. I think many want him to play to his contract. I doubt many will be cheering him on to make 20 more million dollars. 16 hours ago, NewEra said: Do you think 15 sacks is his only goal here? That line of thinking implies that15 sacks is the only incentive. It’s not. There are several incentives. Each sack is that much closer to getting him millions more. He’ll be playing with 💯+ effort as long as his knee isn’t still bothering him. I have no doubt. I don’t think he’d be trying harder if he had that money guaranteed, especially if he didn’t have confidence in his knee. You miss the point. 15 sacks gets him to his originally agreed upon salary. It's not really a "bonus". Plus this notion that he is "betting on himself" is silly---he had little chance but to accept this deal, given his age, recent injury and subsequent lack of production. 16 hours ago, billsfan89 said: I don’t doubt Von came for money but I also think he is going to play hard to get as much of his incentives as he can. About half if not more of his salary in this upcoming seasons are incentives that are attainable. So I think your assessment of Von in 2024 is not accurate he’s going to give it all he has. Of course he came for the money--and Beane was happy to overpay. Why else would he be here? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Just now, Mr. WEO said: I think many want him to play to his contract. I doubt many will be cheering him on to make 20 more million dollars. You miss the point. 15 sacks gets him to his originally agreed upon salary. It's not really a "bonus". Plus this notion that he is "betting on himself" is silly---he had little chance but to accept this deal, given his age, recent injury and subsequent lack of production. Of course he came for the money--and Beane was happy to overpay. Why else would he be here? No, you’re missing the point. He was going to get paid 10.7M for nothing. Now he’s getting 8.5 and can get over double that if he hits his incentives. Every sack he gets= closer to making millions more. You insinuated that he wouldn’t be trying as hard because he was making less…..while also saying that the only reason he came he was for money. That said- if money is the only thing he cares about, why would he NOT give it his 💯? Why would he not try harder? His $ is directly tied to his performance. If we would’ve cut him, he could have gotten his 10.7M from us plus another contract from another team. Someone would’ve paid him 4-5M- possibly a good amount more depending on how he looked in his workout. And that money wouldn’t depend on him getting sacks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 minute ago, NewEra said: No, you’re missing the point. He was going to get paid 10.7M for nothing. Now he’s getting 8.5 and can get over double that if he hits his incentives. Every sack he gets= closer to making millions more. You insinuated that he wouldn’t be trying as hard because he was making less…..while also saying that the only reason he came he was for money. That said- if money is the only thing he cares about, why would he NOT give it his 💯? Why would he not try harder? His $ is directly tied to his performance. If we would’ve cut him, he could have gotten his 10.7M from us plus another contract from another team. Someone would’ve paid him 4-5M- possibly a good amount more depending on how he looked in his workout. And that money wouldn’t depend on him getting sacks He was due 18 million+ "for nothing", before restructuring. His current incentives may as well have included developing a home kit for nuclear fusion... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: He was due 18 million+ "for nothing", before restructuring. His current incentives may as well have included developing a home kit for nuclear fusion... No, the 15 sack incentive may have well included developing a home kit for nuclear infusion. He’s definitely capable of reaching a couple of them, if not more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Process Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Sack incentives are perfect. Should make him more willing to tackle. Seems like he was avoiding contact at all costs last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 26 minutes ago, NewEra said: No, the 15 sack incentive may have well included developing a home kit for nuclear infusion. He’s definitely capable of reaching a couple of them, if not more. If this was 2012, 2014 or even 2016---or if his ACL was not surgically reconstructed at age 33---or if he was at all serviceable this past season a year out from his injury....you might have a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: If this was 2012, 2014 or even 2016---or if his ACL was not surgically reconstructed at age 33---or if he was at all serviceable this past season a year out from his injury....you might have a point. Nonsense- 2,4 and 6 sacks are all on the table. 8 unlikely, but still possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: 2024 Sack Incentives (non-cumulative) 2: $1M 4: $2.5M 6: $4M 8: $6M 10.5: $8.645M 15: $9.645M $1.5M for an AFC Championship Win + 30%+ snaps + 12 regular season snaps I thought people were saying Von had a chance to earn a lot more than his paycut next year if he hit all his incentives. The way you laid it out here he would only earn more if he hit 15+ sacks, or 10.5+ sacks plus a Super Bowl appearance. So yeah this is just a straight up pay cut. Von didn't "bet on himself" as some have said. I am quite confident that Beane forced this on him with the threat of release. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 10 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I thought people were saying Von had a chance to earn a lot more than his paycut next year if he hit all his incentives. The way you laid it out here he would only earn more if he hit 15+ sacks, or 10.5+ sacks plus a Super Bowl appearance. So yeah this is just a straight up pay cut. Von didn't "bet on himself" as some have said. I am quite confident that Beane forced this on him with the threat of release. He does have a "chance" to earn more but its all theoretical. I think there is little to no chance he even musters 6 sacks IMO. The first two incentives are in play and possibly the final one if the team succeeds. He left money on the table. The Bills didn't have a lot of leverage so one assumes there was some willingness on Von's side. At the moment as we stand today he has left more money on the table with the pay cut ($8.8m) than he would have if the Bills had just cut him ($6.5m). If he gets at least 4 sacks he is basically even ($200k up), he needs at least 6 sacks to actually end up in profit on the deal as against being cut. And as you say he needs a lot more than that to be in profit as against the original contract. Personally I'd still have cut him. But I can live with him back on this deal and as a rotational piece. Edited March 8 by GunnerBill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trev Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 15 hours ago, K-9 said: Keeping him active and in games is not on Von Miller, it’s on his coaches and medical staff who determined he was a better option than another player and inserted him in the lineup. You can’t believe that. We were doing him a favor or coaches were trying to make protect gm, anyone could see he was a major liability all year last year. He should have never seen the field, he was terrible. Bills then did him another favor by not Araizanizing him after his domestic abuse charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, NewEra said: Nonsense- 2,4 and 6 sacks are all on the table. 8 unlikely, but still possible. that's nice. see Happy Days and GunnerB above for more info.... Edited March 8 by Mr. WEO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: that's nice. see Happy Days and GunnerB above for more info.... Not sure where they agreed with you that Von has no incentive to play harder….thats what you and I were discussing @HappyDays @GunnerBill Do you guys think that Von has little to no incentive to play hard this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 On 3/6/2024 at 6:16 PM, Dablitzkrieg said: If I was allowed to start a new thread, I would ask this question “How much do you blame Brandon Beane for missing on Von Miller?” Because I don’t blame him. He gave a lot of money to an older player, however he had no way of knowing Von would blow his ACL and never be the same player. This is the risk you run with ANY player, you’re always one bad injury. When Von was active, he made an impact and had he played an entire season in 2022, he’d likely rack up between 10-12 sacks. I guess you can point to his age, however really elite DE’s like Bruce Smith or Reggie White played very well into their 30’s. I wouldn’t put Von in that tier but he’s not that far off. Its easy to look at Von last season and then to look at his contract and think it was a colossal bust but in doing you, your using a lot of hindsight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: that's nice. see Happy Days and GunnerB above for more info.... 6 minutes ago, NewEra said: @HappyDays @GunnerBill Do you guys think that Von has little to no incentive to play hard this season? Why does this remind me of when mommy and daddy pulled me into a room to ask which house I wanted to live in 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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