Tasker & Chris Brown on Bills CB’s for 2024

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Douglas and Benford are unquestioned starters at CB. It's not happening. And guys like White and Elam do not have the ability to do it well. White isn't a good tackler. And Elam, though a better tackler, would need to be even better at Zones than he is already failing at the CB position.

 

White doesn't have the skillset to play strong safety and play in the box but he has the skillset to play free safety and indeed coming out a few very respected evaluators thought that would be his position in the NFL. If one of our corners ends up playing safety in 2024 it will be Tre White. Elam is a total non-starter. Safety accentuates the things he does badly at corner and minimises the things he does well. So he'd be a disaster there. Benford is a young, ascending corner so that is absolutely a guy you don't move and Douglas is too much of a gambler to play safety where you need to have a bit more caution in your mindset of when to attack and when to read and react. 

 

I am not saying it WILL happen, but I do think Tre could play Micah's role. And if the Bills bring him back (interestingly Joe B's roster primer live stream on Friday evening on The Athletic he doubled down on the theory he and I share about what the best solution is on White's contract... and the fact he isn't going to be in a position to pass a medical before his bonus becomes due makes it more likely) I can see them potentially trying it. It might save them FA dollars on a safety. 

[Pete]

7 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

 

He demands a lot from the Safety position. Unfortunately, between Hyde not being REMOTELY the same player he was returning from the neck injury and then Poyer, who had shown some decline the year before, falling off a cliff last year - he got little to nothing from that side of the ball all season.

 

Hyde's a Free Agent. Even if he doesn't retire, which seems likely, we won't be bringing him back. And releasing Poyer can save us cap space.

 

Poyer is back. We are thin at Safety, Poyer brings back leadership and knowhow.  Poyer has been a warrior and excellent team player for Buffalo. IMO Poyer balled out playing LB last year.  Cam Lewis, Poyer, and Hamlin give use a trio of decent Safety depth at the very least.

 

The Bills need WRs, DL, Edge, and Safety as is.  I understand we wish to get younger.  But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.  Poyer will be back and contributing in 2024 IMO

[Shortchaz]

I hope the bills switch to man coverage. Zone defense isn’t as effective as man in the playoffs where they don’t call penalties. A team that’s been playing man gains a huge advantage. 
 

McDermott’s defense collapses in the playoffs rather than gets better probably because they run zone all year. 

Edited February 26 by Shortchaz

[BananaB]

Benford might be the most overrated player on this team amongst fans. But that’s normal, Bills fans fall in love with average play from a late round pick

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I don't think so.  Douglas and Benford are good. Benford played really well the second half of the year. His injury for the playoff game was a big factor in the defense not being good enough. He just wasn't himself.

 

But yeah, depending who's still on the roster, we might definitely need some new depth guys.

 

 

Elam is good? Where's the proof?

 

Elam needs to play? No, no he doesn't.

 

Hopefully he plays well enough in the off-season that they can't keep him off the field. But if he doesn't, he absolutely does not need to play. What he needs to do, he needs to earn the right to play.

He has earned the right to play in multiple ways. First he was drafted 23rd overall. He earned that by showing the Bills he was worth the pick. Then when he plays he makes plays. 
 

I’m not going to argue if he’s better or worse than Douglas or Benford. That’s a silly argument. Those guys are good players.  You don’t move a good 24 year old CB on a rookie deal to S, so Benford isn’t moving. Douglas makes perfect sense being 30 next year. It will prolong his career. He can be an impact safety for multiple years.

 

They could go outside in UFA and sign a safety and leave Elam on the bench for his whole career. But I think Douglas has everything you want in Hyde’s replacement. So slide him to that spot. He’s 30. Give him a nice extension suitable to a 30-31 year old good CB, he won’t break the bank. 
 

I would also release Poyer and sign someone like Jeremy Chinn. Now your DBs and LBs are set for next few years.

 

 

Edited February 26 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Shortchaz]

11 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Benford might be the most overrated player on this team amongst fans. But that’s normal, Bills fans fall in love with average play from a late round pick

Constantly dinged up and never creates turnovers. solid, but as you say overrated. 
 

we need 2-3 IMPACT players on defense. If Rasul isn’t impact I don’t know what is. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Twitter search. Can’t even make this up. From a Packers writer in 2022.

 

 

[Punching Bag]

10 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Edit: I read this wrong at first. I thought it was saying Douglas and Benford would be starting which isn't crazy at all.

 

But yeah.... this is absolutely crazy talk. 

 

I think Tasker might have got names mixed up again. Something he's notorious for doing every time I tune in.

 

He's also notorious for saying things that make me go "wtf?" and are way off base.

 

This isn't going to happen and doesn't make sense for a LARGE number of reasons.

 

He clearly was expressing that he believed Elam would get a second look with new DB coach and was more athletic QB.

No mix up in names.  Bills believed when they drafted him that Elam was 1st round talent and his development may be why they decided to go with new DB coach.

 

I am not saying I agree since Elam seemed to have sticky Sauce type of issue unable to break habit of grabbing and holding WRs without getting the calls that Gardner got.

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

Constantly dinged up and never creates turnovers. solid, but as you say overrated. 
 

we need 2-3 IMPACT players on defense. If Rasul isn’t impact I don’t know what is. 

Benford is a beast. Not solid. He’s a beast. Lockdown. One of the best lockdown CBs in the NFL. 
 

Douglas had an amazing season last year. But again, I think our defense would be better having Elam and Douglas on the field at the same time. The best way to do that is moving Douglas to safety. He’s a ball hawk. Let him roam around. He could be one of the best safeties in the NFL immediately. It’s not anything new to him as Douglas to safety has been the talk of his career, even early last year. Yes, he had his best season in the NFL last year, I know.

[CNYfan]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

White doesn't have the skillset to play strong safety and play in the box but he has the skillset to play free safety and indeed coming out a few very respected evaluators thought that would be his position in the NFL. If one of our corners ends up playing safety in 2024 it will be Tre White. Elam is a total non-starter. Safety accentuates the things he does badly at corner and minimises the things he does well. So he'd be a disaster there. Benford is a young, ascending corner so that is absolutely a guy you don't move and Douglas is too much of a gambler to play safety where you need to have a bit more caution in your mindset of when to attack and when to read and react. 

 

I am not saying it WILL happen, but I do think Tre could play Micah's role. And if the Bills bring him back (interestingly Joe B's roster primer live stream on Friday evening on The Athletic he doubled down on the theory he and I share about what the best solution is on White's contract... and the fact he isn't going to be in a position to pass a medical before his bonus becomes due makes it more likely) I can see them potentially trying it. It might save them FA dollars on a safety. 

Could you remind me of what your "theory about what is the best solution for Tre White's Contract"?

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Why do people care where Douglas plays? He’d likely be the new Hyde. Hyde lines up at multiple positions during games. 
 

Douglas wouldn’t be coming off the field in this scenario. 
 

Elam is a starting CB. He needs to play. He’s our number 4 CB because the Bills have had 4 starting boundary CBs. They need to play their 1st round pick. They didn’t draft him to be depth. He has elite #1 CB ability. He’s a man CB. 

 

IF he shows in camp he us a starting CB then the scenario is POSSIBLE for like Hyde Douglas has ability to do multiple roles which is needed in disguise style of defense Bills use.  But Elam has not shown he is a starting CB when there are other QBs ahead of him on roster including a 6th round pick.  It would be very good for him to show that ability being a 1st round pick being paid significantly more.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

14 minutes ago, Punching Bag said:

 

IF he shows in camp he is a starting CB then the scenario is POSSIBLE for like Hyde Douglas has ability to do multiple roles which is needed in disguise style of defense Bills use.  But Elam has not shown he is a starting CB when there are other QBs ahead of him on roster including a 6th round pick.  It would be very good for him to show that ability being a 1st round pick being paid significantly more.

He got cooked in the Jags game. He wasn’t right most of the year. Coaches and teammates talked about what he was dealing with injury wise.

 

But please stop saying he’s bad because Benford is better. Benford is one of the best CBs in the NFL. Dane Jackson is a pro. He started a lot of games for McDermott. He trusted him. Elam is a player the Bills have to find out about. He has definitely been inconsistent, I won’t argue against that. But he hasn’t been all bad. 

 

 

 

[nedboy7]

How often is a CB moved over to safety?  Is this a common move? 

[gjv]

If Tasker is right about Elam the Bills secondary got much better.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

15 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

How often is a CB moved over to safety?  Is this a common move? 

Micah Hyde.

 

It’s very common. Need to be able to tackle though. Thats why most believe Tre White can’t play safety. He’s a terrible tackler.

Edited February 26 by Buffalo_Stampede

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Why would we do this whenever he is one of our best cornerbacks

Because Elam is apparently going to beat him out at CB…..

[jahnyc]

There may have been issues between Elam and Butler, and Elam did have an injury last season, but I don't see him suddenly making the jump to a quality starting CB for this season.  He had issues with holding/interference when he does play and he seems to be a poor tackler, which is not ideal in McD's (or any) defense.  At this point, Elam being a first round pick should have no bearing on whether he starts, plays or sits.

[SCBills]

A team up against the cap should probably give a RD1 pick who has shown high level flashes in big moments a year to prove whether or not he's the guy. 

 

Especially if he was dealing with an injury and wasn't on the same page as the position coach who's no longer here.  

 

The Bills would have a good idea of what's been going on behind the scenes and with an open Safety spot and/or Rasul's 9M cap hit, I do think there's something to this discussion. 

[Warriorspikes51]

2 hours ago, Shortchaz said:

I hope the bills switch to man coverage. Zone defense isn’t as effective as man in the playoffs where they don’t call penalties. A team that’s been playing man gains a huge advantage. 
 

McDermott’s defense collapses in the playoffs rather than gets better probably because they run zone all year. 

 

KC is never called for defensive holding or PI. It's a JOKE 

[beebe]

10 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

KC is never called for defensive holding or PI. It's a JOKE 

 

KC ranks defensive pass interference last 5 years since Spags took over:

 

2023: 8th most (11)

2022: most (15, next closest was Ravens with 12)

2021: 3rd most (13)

2020: 3rd most (17)

2019: 6th most (11)

 

They were worst in the league in defensive holding in 2019 by a lot (five more than any other team), third worst in 2020, and have managed to be average to barely above average in 2021, 2022 and 2023—largely because they're being flagged for PI's at a league-high rate in that 3-year period instead. 

[Mat68]

Douglas Benford Elam are the main outside Cbs moving forward.  White is an interesting.  Cant rely on him moving forward.  He is a Mcdermott guy.  Curious how they handle him. 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, CNYfan said:

Could you remind me of what your "theory about what is the best solution for Tre White's Contract"?

 

It is that he has not a single extra dollar due from the Bills at this point and his best chance of rehabbing and getting back to form is here where the regime love him, the team knows his body and he knows the scheme. Therefore there is incentive to offer him a small amount of guaranteed new money (I suggested $8m, I think Joe B suggested $10m) in exchange for him taking a significant cut in the unguaranteed chunks he is due in 2024 and 2025. That way you lower his cap hits to about $10m per year the next two years, kick a little bit of the bonus into some void years beyond 2025 (and I'm talking max $4-5m spread over two years) and give yourself Tre under contract in 2024 while still saving the same $$s off the cap as cutting him would and you get an out after 2024 so if he is washed or he gets hurt again you can move on and it costs you less than the $10m in dead money it costs now if we cut him. 

[Shortchaz]

24 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

KC ranks defensive pass interference last 5 years since Spags took over:

 

2023: 8th most (11)

2022: most (15, next closest was Ravens with 12)

2021: 3rd most (13)

2020: 3rd most (17)

2019: 6th most (11)

 

They were worst in the league in defensive holding in 2019 by a lot (five more than any other team), third worst in 2020, and have managed to be average to barely above average in 2021, 2022 and 2023—largely because they're being flagged for PI's at a league-high rate in that 3-year period instead. 

I’m slightly curious what the numbers look like in the playoffs. I FEEL like the absolute number of calls decline. 
 

this could be because the teams learn throughout the season what they can get away with OR the nfl simply adopts a more let them play stance in the playoffs; or a combination of both. 
 

I still feel like a team playing man the whole year gains an advantage during the playoffs where man coverage gives the defense more options. 
 

the chiefs have thrived (especially in the playoffs) regardless of their rank in dpi and dh since spags. 

Edited February 26 by Shortchaz

[CNYfan]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is that he has not a single extra dollar due from the Bills at this point and his best chance of rehabbing and getting back to form is here where the regime love him, the team knows his body and he knows the scheme. Therefore there is incentive to offer him a small amount of guaranteed new money (I suggested $8m, I think Joe B suggested $10m) in exchange for him taking a significant cut in the unguaranteed chunks he is due in 2024 and 2025. That way you lower his cap hits to about $10m per year the next two years, kick a little bit of the bonus into some void years beyond 2025 (and I'm talking max $4-5m spread over two years) and give yourself Tre under contract in 2024 while still saving the same $$s off the cap as cutting him would and you get an out after 2024 so if he is washed or he gets hurt again you can move on and it costs you less than the $10m in dead money it costs now if we cut him. 

Wow.   That is some technical thinking.  

[Malazan]

Tasker took a lot of hits to the head during his time in the league.

 

I have no explanation for Brown.

[beebe]

19 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

I’m slightly curious what the numbers look like in the playoffs. I FEEL like the absolute number of calls decline. 
 

this could be because the teams learn throughout the season what they can get away with OR the nfl simply adopts a more let them play stance in the playoffs; or a combination of both. 
 

I still feel like a team playing man the whole year gains an advantage during the playoffs where man coverage gives the defense more options. 
 

the chiefs have thrived (especially in the playoffs) regardless of their rank in dpi and dh since spags. 

 

This article is pretty good overall: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39483957/super-bowl-kansas-city-chiefs-penalties-conspiracy

[BananaB]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He got cooked in the Jags game. He wasn’t right most of the year. Coaches and teammates talked about what he was dealing with injury wise.

 

But please stop saying he’s bad because Benford is better. Benford is one of the best CBs in the NFL. Dane Jackson is a pro. He started a lot of games for McDermott. He trusted him. Elam is a player the Bills have to find out about. He has definitely been inconsistent, I won’t argue against that. But he hasn’t been all bad. 

 

 

 

Benford is not close to one of the best CBs in the NFL. 
 

Despite Elams struggles and very limited time on the field he may have made more impact plays then Dane and Benford. At this point I don’t see him getting much playing time here moving forward. McD gonna go with the player who is better between the ears than the most physically gifted almost every time. Look at Klien and Williams in the playoffs

Edited February 26 by BananaB

[BuffaloRebound]

34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is that he has not a single extra dollar due from the Bills at this point and his best chance of rehabbing and getting back to form is here where the regime love him, the team knows his body and he knows the scheme. Therefore there is incentive to offer him a small amount of guaranteed new money (I suggested $8m, I think Joe B suggested $10m) in exchange for him taking a significant cut in the unguaranteed chunks he is due in 2024 and 2025. That way you lower his cap hits to about $10m per year the next two years, kick a little bit of the bonus into some void years beyond 2025 (and I'm talking max $4-5m spread over two years) and give yourself Tre under contract in 2024 while still saving the same $$s off the cap as cutting him would and you get an out after 2024 so if he is washed or he gets hurt again you can move on and it costs you less than the $10m in dead money it costs now if we cut him. 

I don’t know.  Seemed like Bills had to coax Tre back on field after the ACL injury.  Add the achilles tear and there’s no way I’m guaranteeing him any new money.  We all love Tre but it’s time to move on.  

[T master]

They have had Cosell on & he has said that Ilam is their most athletic CB on the team . Given that he had a injury last year & didn't get the reps needed then was brought back at the end of the season due to other injuries i HOPE with a full training camp & OTA's plus being in the defensive meetings he can come in & be a force for the Bills .

 

I hate that Tre looks as if he won't be here or at the very least be cut de to his cap hit . I've heard he probably won't be ready for the season even though he has been at the facility working his butt off rehabbing .

 

The back end of the D this year will look quite different . Actually the entire D will look very different from last year come training camp ...

[Punching Bag]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He got cooked in the Jags game. He wasn’t right most of the year. Coaches and teammates talked about what he was dealing with injury wise.

 

But please stop saying he’s bad because Benford is better. Benford is one of the best CBs in the NFL. Dane Jackson is a pro. He started a lot of games for McDermott. He trusted him. Elam is a player the Bills have to find out about. He has definitely been inconsistent, I won’t argue against that. But he hasn’t been all bad. 

 

I am talking about Elam not Benford.  Elam has not shown he is starting material compared to other CBs on roster.

[BuffaloBillyG]

15 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

This is really strange to me.  Douglas is an impact player and made a big difference for us.  Saying Elam and Benford are more athletic and therefore will start? Odd.

 

Douglas should be viewed as CB1 and let Benford and Elam compete for CB2.

 

I guess they also assumed Tre will no longer be with the team

 

I think a lot of what is going to happen with Douglas will be seen in the money he sees here for next year. Right now he's scheduled to count a tad over $9M on the cap. He won't be that high if a deal is done. They would lessen his cap hit I'm sure. But how many years and guaranteed cash will tell us where they view him.

 

Of course, another option would be to cut/trade and clear that $9M off the books completely. We swapped picks for him and I do think we got our bang for the buck if it comes to this. But I see it as highly unlikely.

22 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

I don’t know.  Seemed like Bills had to coax Tre back on field after the ACL injury.  Add the achilles tear and there’s no way I’m guaranteeing him any new money.  We all love Tre but it’s time to move on.  

I don't know that it's "time to move on" from Tre. I don't know his medicals and how his mindset really is. But I would agree it's not prudent for him to be at the salary he's due this this. If he's in a good place mentally and the medicals are clear there's no reason he couldn't come back with a bit of a pay cut and turn part of his money into incentives.

[julian]

4 hours ago, BananaB said:

Benford might be the most overrated player on this team amongst fans. But that’s normal, Bills fans fall in love with average play from a late round pick

Thank you, I thought I was going crazy and maybe I missed something. Benford has been a good player and still has room to improve, but people acting like he’s locked it down and there’s no need to try an improve that position is kinda nuts.

 

 He’s the new Levi Wallace until or unless he takes another jump in his play, and there’s nothing wrong with being the next Levi Wallace but when you’re that guy you must know they’re trying to upgrade your position every year and it’s a competition in camp.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

40 minutes ago, Punching Bag said:

 

I am talking about Elam not Benford.  Elam has not shown he is starting material compared to other CBs on roster.

Thats fair. Look at the CBs the Bills have.

 

Film shows he can play. Needs reps.

5 hours ago, BananaB said:

Benford might be the most overrated player on this team amongst fans. But that’s normal, Bills fans fall in love with average play from a late round pick

Overrated how? He’s one of the best at not allowing separation. One of the best in the NFL. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

27 minutes ago, julian said:

Thank you, I thought I was going crazy and maybe I missed something. Benford has been a good player and still has room to improve, but people acting like he’s locked it down and there’s no need to try an improve that position is kinda nuts.

 

 He’s the new Levi Wallace until or unless he takes another jump in his play, and there’s nothing wrong with being the next Levi Wallace but when you’re that guy you must know they’re trying to upgrade your position every year and it’s a competition in camp.

Find Benford and then find Wallace. Levi Wallace? What are you even watching? Are you basing that on anything or just blindly saying something?

 

 

 

[Logic]

I think there's very, very little chance that Rasul Douglas doesn't get extended and spend the next several years as a Buffalo Bill.

He absolutely screams "process" and "McDermott guy", plus he was wildly productive in his first year with the Bills.

I think Benford and Douglas is your starting duo in 2024 and 2025. Hopefully Elam takes a step now that he's healthy and pushes both guys, and becomes valuable depth at both spots and the first off the bench.

Tre White...I just don't know what to do with him. I think there are emotional and locker room and leadership aspects that make this one a bit cloudy. Literally no outcome with Tre White -- cut, extension, leaving his contract as-is -- would surprise me at this point. 

The only thing I feel really confident about going into 2024 is that Benford and Douglas will be the top two corners. Everything else is a little hazy at the moment and depends on health, money, and the progression (or lack thereof) of Kaiir Elam.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

16 minutes ago, Logic said:

I think there's very, very little chance that Rasul Douglas doesn't get extended and spend the next several years as a Buffalo Bill.

He absolutely screams "process" and "McDermott guy", plus he was wildly productive in his first year with the Bills.

I think Benford and Douglas is your starting duo in 2024 and 2025. Hopefully Elam takes a step now that he's healthy and pushes both guys, and becomes valuable depth at both spots and the first off the bench.

Tre White...I just don't know what to do with him. I think there are emotional and locker room and leadership aspects that make this one a bit cloudy. Literally no outcome with Tre White -- cut, extension, leaving his contract as-is -- would surprise me at this point. 

The only thing I feel really confident about going into 2024 is that Benford and Douglas will be the top two corners. Everything else is a little hazy at the moment and depends on health, money, and the progression (or lack thereof) of Kaiir Elam.

Today I saw spotract had Douglas value at 2 years $28 million extension. I predicted 2 years $25 million.

 

If you were placing a bet, yes bet on Benford and Douglas as the starting CB’s. 
 

 

[Warriorspikes51]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Today I saw spotract had Douglas value at 2 years $28 million extension. I predicted 2 years $25 million.

 

If you were placing a bet, yes bet on Benford and Douglas as the starting CB’s. 
 

 

 

Make it 3 for 39, add a couple void years and convert his base to a bonus 

[hondo in seattle]

38 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Find Benford and then find Wallace. Levi Wallace? What are you even watching? Are you basing that on anything or just blindly saying something?

 

 

 

 

If these data are reliable... interesting.

 

Benford and Taron Johnson are among the best CBs.  Not targeted a lot and not giving up a lot of separation.

 

Our old friend, Levi Wallace, is worse than average in both categories.

 

Jalen Ramsey: not targeted a lot but worse than average in separation.  

 

Jets have two stud corners.  

[Logic]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Today I saw spotract had Douglas value at 2 years $28 million extension. I predicted 2 years $25 million.

 

If you were placing a bet, yes bet on Benford and Douglas as the starting CB’s. 
 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Make it 3 for 39, add a couple void years and convert his base to a bonus 

And crucially, the Bills don't have to do anything at all with Douglas's contract in the immediate future if they don't want.

Even if they DO like Benford/Elam as the long term duo, they can just let Douglas play out his deal in 2024 at a reasonable cost and then go young in 2025.

In this case, they'd have effectively gotten a season and a half of high quality cornerback play for a draft pick swap (5th for 3rd). I don't expect them to go this route. As I stated, I think they'll extend him. But even if they don't, I view it as a good trade.

[julian]

59 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Find Benford and then find Wallace. Levi Wallace? What are you even watching? Are you basing that on anything or just blindly saying something?

 

 

 

Holy sh*t, look at that stat, Benford is on par with Sauce, Humphrey, Fuller, Porter JR, Kenny Moore, Stingley JR and Taron Johnson, that’s insane.

 

 I stand corrected, Benford is amongst the best, sometimes when watching games these separation created stats just go unnoticed by my untrained eye. Looks like we’re gonna have to fork over top 5 CB money after this season, good bye Tre, hello Benford.

 

 I was comparing him to Wallace while Wallace was in Buffalo, when he was a nice story but always competing for his job.