Mahomes crying

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

I have always been a huge fan of his both on and off the field but this year, when he has faced some adversity, off the field he has been slightly embarrassing. I get it that His WRs stink but cmon. 

Im glad we have Josh. He’s always been a great teammate. 
 

That said, Mahomes weapons suck. Once Tua gets paid and that contract starts to get reflected in cap dollars, I cannot wait for the implosion. If Mahomes is playing like this I cannot wait for Tua to tank that franchise. 

[Mikie2times]

13 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

They've started almost the exact number of games since coming into the league.  Mahomes total (passing and rushing) yards per game is better by close to 30 yards per game, his total touchdowns per game (both rushing and passing) are higher, his turnovers per game (fumbles and ints) are lower by close to .5 turnovers a game, his completion percentage is higher, his yards per attempts is higher, his winning percentage is higher, he's won more playoff games, he's won two superbowls, and has been a league MVP.     I mean does that cover enough?  Its literally almost eveything you'd look at from a quarterback perspective and Josh is literally worse in every category.  

 

What can you point to aside from being a better rusher that Josh does better?  Mahomes has been a far superior passer than Josh.  And again, when you add both rushing and passing stats together Mahomes is still superior.    Mahomes has only started 3 more games than Josh and has 52 more passing touchdowns than him.   Not to mention 13 less interceptions.    Mahomes didnt play well today, and the Chiefs are struggling, but make no mistake about it, he is still the best quarterback in the league.  In my mind Josh is the second best QB in the league, but he hasnt been as good as Mahomes.   There is no argument to be made that says he has. 

It is now blasphemy to say Mahomes is better, have fun with this. 

[Punch]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Mahomes basically started in his 2nd year in the league after getting to sit a year and learn with the offensive mind of Andy Reid as his HC. Also when he started he had Hill and Kelce as well as a competent O-line. Josh on the other hand started his rookie year none of the WRs/TEs that started with him would make it really into the next season most wouldn't even start for another team the exception being Zay Jones who got traded in October of the 2nd season, and I'm pretty sure he lost his starting job before he figured things out with the Jaguars. His O-line that rookie year same thing none on the team or starting anywhere else the next season with the exception of Dawkins.

 

So that first year might have been a bit different.

thenorthremembers points are well taken, it's hard to disagree. But the quoted is also true, Mahomes started off with more advantages than any QB aside from perhaps Steve Young and Brock Purdy. That doesn't negate his talent or preeminence, but Josh Allen didn't start off on anywhere close to so lofty a perch.

[Success]

I have always liked Mahomes, which has gotten me a few frowns in Bills' crowds.

 

But since the last game, my opinion of him has taken a nosedive.  He's a whining punk.  Allen has lost incredibly painful games to the Chiefs, and always showed up aat the end to give them props.  Mahomes wilts at the first sign of adversity.

 

He'll never be on Allen's level, imo. After he loses Kelce, it will become much more clear who the better QB is.

 

[Warcodered]

8 minutes ago, chongli said:

 

The problem is no other team in the West is taking advantage of it (Raiders maybe, but too little, too late). Those MF'ers are still going to win the division and get a home game.

Yeah we're tied now and have been going through a gauntlet to get into playoff contention, they've been sitting pretty, essentially most of the season.

[thenorthremembers]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Mahomes basically started in his 2nd year in the league after getting to sit a year and learn with the offensive mind of Andy Reid as his HC. Also when he started he had Hill and Kelce as well as a competent O-line. Josh on the other hand started his rookie year none of the WRs/TEs that started with him would make it really into the next season most wouldn't even start for another team the exception being Zay Jones who got traded in October of the 2nd season, and I'm pretty sure he lost his starting job before he figured things out with the Jaguars. His O-line that rookie year same thing none on the team or starting anywhere else the next season with the exception of Dawkins.

 

So that first year might have been a bit different.

I don't disagree with any of that.  But, when Josh has had the support he hasn't done as much with it.  Maybe then we can point to coaching, which is also fair but at the end of the day the story so far is Mahomes has been a better QB than Josh.  And when it comes to results without if, ands and buts, I think it's a pretty silly argument to make to say Josh has been a better QB to date.

 

 

[PBF81]

36 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

@PromoTheRobot is just setting you up in the unlikely event that Joe Flacco (10 TD 7 INT 59% completion) somehow beats the Bills in the playoffs............so he can shame you for not being an appreciative fan.

 

If JA17 loses a playoff game to a 38-39 year old Joe Flacco........9 years after he was last a good starting QB in the NFL.........then that will be inexcusable.

 

Well, in all fairness, that would be inexcusable.  

 

😏

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

3 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

It is now blasphemy to say Mahomes is better, have fun with this. 

I won't spend much time arguing it.   I love Allen and I love the Bills but I won't let that cloud reality. 

 

By the end of his career I think Josh will easily be the best QB ever to play here, I also think he ends up a top 10 QB all time. He's on Hall of Fame pace.  But he currently isn't the best QB playing in the league.

[Riverboat Ritchie]

6 minutes ago, Success said:

I have always liked Mahomes, which has gotten me a few frowns in Bills' crowds.

 

But since the last game, my opinion of him has taken a nosedive.  He's a whining punk.  Allen has lost incredibly painful games to the Chiefs, and always showed up aat the end to give them props.  Mahomes wilts at the first sign of adversity.

 

He'll never be on Allen's level, imo. After he loses Kelce, it will become much more clear who the better QB is.

 

Kinda in same boat and with annoying  brother, hard not to think that the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. Entitled whiners. 

[julian]

12 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

I don't disagree with any of that.  But, when Josh has had the support he hasn't done as much with it.  Maybe then we can point to coaching, which is also fair but at the end of the day the story so far is Mahomes has been a better QB than Josh.  And when it comes to results without if, ands and buts, I think it's a pretty silly argument to make to say Josh has been a better QB to date.

 

 

But we can just watch them both play the game and clearly see who has more tools in his belt, I give mahomes credit for taking advantage of having a HOF coach HOF TE and HOF WR.. good on him.

 

I know what I’m seeing when I watch them both play.

[finn]

21 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

They've started almost the exact number of games since coming into the league.  Mahomes total (passing and rushing) yards per game is better by close to 30 yards per game, his total touchdowns per game (both rushing and passing) are higher, his turnovers per game (fumbles and ints) are lower by close to .5 turnovers a game, his completion percentage is higher, his yards per attempts is higher, his winning percentage is higher, he's won more playoff games, he's won two superbowls, and has been a league MVP.     I mean does that cover enough?  Its literally almost eveything you'd look at from a quarterback perspective and Josh is literally worse in every category.  

 

What can you point to aside from being a better rusher that Josh does better?  Mahomes has been a far superior passer than Josh.  And again, when you add both rushing and passing stats together Mahomes is still superior.    Mahomes has only started 3 more games than Josh and has 52 more passing touchdowns than him.   Not to mention 13 less interceptions.    Mahomes didnt play well today, and the Chiefs are struggling, but make no mistake about it, he is still the best quarterback in the league.  In my mind Josh is the second best QB in the league, but he hasnt been as good as Mahomes.   There is no argument to be made that says he has. 

I meant what am I missing given that Mahomes played most of those years with two future HOF receivers in Kelsey and Hill and behind one of the best lines in football. Mahomes is special, no doubt, but I'm less impressed than you when I look at his teammates. By contrast, Allen has to dodge at least one rusher on virtually every pass drop, and besides Diggs, he's been throwing to a bunch of scrubs his whole career.

 

A simple thought experiment: Put Allen behind the KC line all these years and throwing to the KC receivers. And have Mahomes behind Spencer Brown and Roger Saffold and throwing to the Bills receivers. Be honest and objective: Do you really think Mahomes would still come out ahead? 

[thenorthremembers]

Just now, julian said:

But we can just watch them both play the game and clearly see who has more tools in his belt, I give mahomes credit for taking advantage of having a HOF coach HOF TE and HOF WR.. good on him.

 

I know what I’m seeing when I watch them both play.

Josh is a better runner without question.  Mahomes is more accurate and their arms are a push.  

 

It's incredible to me how you and the like give Reid, Kelce, and Hill all the credit when none of them had won crap without Mahomes.  He was the missing piece not vice versa.   Same group of people so clouded by Fandom they called Brady a system QB.  

 

Meanwhile the guy is playing with crap at WR this year, while Josh has a legitimate hall of fame talent on his team and their passing stats will likely be within a touchdown or 2 of one another and a few hundred yards difference.

 

I guess my football eyes just aren't as well trained as everyone here who can "see it" enough to ignore every logical statistic out there.

 

 

[I'm Spartacus]

I don't know. The dude is really good.

[julian]

1 minute ago, thenorthremembers said:

Josh is a better runner without question.  Mahomes is more accurate and their arms are a push.  

 

It's incredible to me how you and the like give Reid, Kelce, and Hill all the credit when none of them had won crap without Mahomes.  He was the missing piece not vice versa.   Same group of people so clouded by Fandom they called Brady a system QB.  

 

Meanwhile the guy is playing with crap at WR this year, while Josh has a legitimate hall of fame talent on his team and their passing stats will likely be within a touchdown or 2 of one another and a few hundred yards difference.

 

I guess my football eyes just aren't as well trained as everyone here who can "see it" enough to ignore every logical statistic out there.

 

 

I said what I was watching, I wasn’t talking about winning and I gave him credit, he still had to make the throws and the plays. I think he’s awesome but its pretty obvious when watching them play football.

 

 It’s not knocking Mahomes to say Allen is a better player, Allen is the greatest duel threat QB to ever play. 

[thenorthremembers]

6 minutes ago, finn said:

I meant what am I missing given that Mahomes played most of those years with two future HOF receivers in Kelsey and Hill and behind one of the best lines in football. Mahomes is special, no doubt, but I'm less impressed than you when I look at his teammates. By contrast, Allen has to dodge at least one rusher on virtually every pass drop, and besides Diggs, he's been throwing to a bunch of scrubs his whole career.

 

A simple thought experiment: Put Allen behind the KC line all these years and throwing to the KC receivers. And have Mahomes behind Spencer Brown and Roger Saffold and throwing to the Bills receivers. Be honest and objective: Do you really think Mahomes would still come out ahead? 

Again, Kelce is toast and Hill is gone and the team records and passing statistics will be virtually identical even though Allen has Diggs.    Do I think Allen wins a Super Bowl in KC yes I do.  But your question, along with many others here was, why do I think Mahomes is better than Allen.  And because we can't look at the scenario logically, we'd rather talk about hypotheticals.  

[Warcodered]

6 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Josh is a better runner without question.  Mahomes is more accurate and their arms are a push.  

 

It's incredible to me how you and the like give Reid, Kelce, and Hill all the credit when none of them had won crap without Mahomes.  He was the missing piece not vice versa.   Same group of people so clouded by Fandom they called Brady a system QB.  

 

Meanwhile the guy is playing with crap at WR this year, while Josh has a legitimate hall of fame talent on his team and their passing stats will likely be within a touchdown or 2 of one another and a few hundred yards difference.

 

I guess my football eyes just aren't as well trained as everyone here who can "see it" enough to ignore every logical statistic out there.

 

 

They won the division the year he was on the team and he wasn't starting and the year before he was on the team.

[thenorthremembers]

Just now, julian said:

I said what I was watching, I wasn’t talking about winning and I gave him credit, he still had to make the throws and the plays. I think he’s awesome but its pretty obvious when watching them play football.

 

 It’s not knocking Mahomes to say Allen is a better player, Allen is the greatest duel threat QB to ever play. 

We are just going to have to agree to disagree.  Won't argue that Josh is a freak athlete.  But I can't get on board with him processing the game as well, or throwing a more accurate ball than Mahomes.   

[Punch]

6 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

It's incredible to me how you and the like give Reid, Kelce, and Hill all the credit when none of them had won crap without Mahomes.  He was the missing piece not vice versa.   Same group of people so clouded by Fandom they called Brady a system QB.  

This is a bit of a reach. Tyreek was a rookie in 2016 and Kelce was in his 3rd full season. Alex Smith had a pretty good year with Reid, Hill and Kelce just as they were getting started before being replaced by Mahomes.

 

I don't think Alex Smith would've won MVPs or Super Bowls in that situation, but no one is suggesting anybody could simply step in and replicate Mahomes' success. Mahomes is great, he landed in a beautiful spot and then performed at an extremely high level.

[thenorthremembers]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

They won the division the year he was on the team and he wasn't starting and the year before he was on the team.

And how many Super Bowls did any of those guys win without him?  

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Josh has a legitimate hall of fame talent

 

Nobody on the Bills other than Allen is playing close to a Hall of Fame level this year. That is a patently ridiculous thing to say.

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, thenorthremembers said:

And how many Super Bowls did any of those guys win without him?  

[julian]

2 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

We are just going to have to agree to disagree.  Won't argue that Josh is a freak athlete.  But I can't get on board with him processing the game as well, or throwing a more accurate ball than Mahomes.   

Fair enough… another 10 plus years before history is written for these two future 1st ballot HOFers

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Its just normal NFL nonsense.   He's been incredible through his first 7 years.   But rather than just say he's been incredible, people had to start putting him in the same conversation as Brady, which is both disrespectful to how truly great Brady was, and pretty much setting Mahomes up for a let down.  

 

Mahomes is likely going to end up having his worst full season in the NFL this year, but it still a very good season in comparison with his peers.    Just have to wade through the bs to get a sense of what really is going on.   For my money Mahomes is still the best QB in the league, but the Chiefs are dealing with the outcome of having to pay a QB huge money coupled with drafting late every year, and his weapons aging out of the league.  Kelce is on his last legs, Tyreek Hill's influence on the Chiefs was underestimated, and they've done a poor job of drafting.   Championship football takes a lot of things happening well all at the same time..    That said, I'd still take the two championships they have.

Kc had an embarrassment of riches and now that they are more in line with other teams weapons I think we’re seeing how mahomes would look if he was anywhere but kc the last few seasons.  That oline has been elite for the last few years and Kelce has been a beast up until this year 

 

obvioisly I’d take the two Superbowls also no question though 😂

Edited December 26, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Kelce is toast and Hill is gone and the team records and passing statistics will be virtually identical even though Allen has Diggs.

 

Kelce is toast but you're using Diggs as your counter example? Next time just tell us you haven't watched a lot of Bills or Chiefs games this year and save us the effort.

[finn]

9 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Again, Kelce is toast and Hill is gone and the team records and passing statistics will be virtually identical even though Allen has Diggs.    Do I think Allen wins a Super Bowl in KC yes I do.  But your question, along with many others here was, why do I think Mahomes is better than Allen.  And because we can't look at the scenario logically, we'd rather talk about hypotheticals.  

Right, maybe that's all we can do. Given the context we're discussing, it's most accurate and fair to say that the two appear to be of the same caliber, and that the discrepancy in stats may or may not be due to the quality of their respective teams. But that's a mouthful and way too nuanced for most fans and commentators, who prefer simple answers to complex questions. So until further notice, Mahomes remains the Messiah and Allen the turnover machine. Whatever. 

[rajinka]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Kelce is toast but you're using Diggs as your counter example? Next time just tell us you haven't watched a lot of Bills or Chiefs games this year and save us the effort.

Diggs is at best a 1a at this point with no true number 2 wr on the team.  

[HappyDays]

Just now, rajinka said:

Diggs is at best a 1a at this point with no true number 2 wr on the team.  

 

He has unfortunately been a borderline #1 since the London game. There are maybe 12 WRs in the league that I would classify as true #1s. Diggs has been just outside that group for a couple months now.

[QLBillsFan]

I think the interesting narrative is if they were on the opposite teams. What would the current legacy of both be??? Josh with AR and Patty w McClappy? Think that’s a fun way to look at it. Patty had some wind at his back immediately🤷🏻‍♂️

[rajinka]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

He has unfortunately been a borderline #1 since the London game. There are maybe 12 WRs in the league that I would classify as true #1s. Diggs has been just outside that group for a couple months now.

Yep even before that I don't feel like he's a game changing wr. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, QLBillsFan said:

I think the interesting narrative is if they were on the opposite teams. What would the current legacy of both be??? Josh with AR and Patty w McClappy? Think that’s a fun way to look at it. Patty had some wind at his back immediately🤷🏻‍♂️

The kc oline was far better than buffalos for years up until this season and they had tyreek/Kelce for a good chunk of it.  I think josh is as good or better in that kc offense than mahomes 

[Nelius]

Think I read here a few times that since he has a ring that he’s allowed to pout like his spoiled brother and essentially be an 85 rating middling QB. He’s earned that privilege!

 

Bwahahaha I love it. Kelce is a lumbering old PR stunt now too. Clearly no Gronk

[WotAGuy]

49 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, in all fairness, that would be inexcusable.  

 

😏

 

 

The Bills have made a habit of those kinds of losses. 

[The Frankish Reich]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

Ironically, Cleveland may be the next best team at this point.

I can't really believe it, but Flacco is playing better now than at any point since his weird/outlier 2012 Super Bowl playoff run. They would be toast if Watson hadn't been injured again.

[90sBills]

53 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

It is now blasphemy to say Mahomes is better, have fun with this. 

What a rollercoaster this fanbase is. After the superbowl last year most of the fans grudgingly agreed that Mahomes is better and Allen is behind him. Some even thought Burrow was better than Allen. The struggles early in the season made that narrative even more prevalent. And now that the team is playing a little better and the defending champs are having a rough patch it’s back to Allen is the best that ever was. Crazy stuff. Let’s hope that the Bills can at least advance further than the downtrodden Chiefs this playoffs or it’d really be silly. 

[Rico]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

@PromoTheRobot is just setting you up in the unlikely event that Joe Flacco (10 TD 7 INT 59% completion) somehow beats the Bills in the playoffs............so he can shame you for not being an appreciative fan.

 

If JA17 loses a playoff game to a 38-39 year old Joe Flacco........9 years after he was last a good starting QB in the NFL.........then that will be inexcusable.

What if Lamar loses a playoff game to Joe Flacco? Joe’s revenge. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

20 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

What a rollercoaster this fanbase is. After the superbowl last year most of the fans grudgingly agreed that Mahomes is better and Allen is behind him. Some even thought Burrow was better than Allen. The struggles early in the season made that narrative even more prevalent. And now that the team is playing a little better and the defending champs are having a rough patch it’s back to Allen is the best that ever was. Crazy stuff. Let’s hope that the Bills can at least advance further than the downtrodden Chiefs this playoffs or it’d really be silly. 

Depends on how it happens…that chiefs defense is really good and it’s the reason they’ve been winning this year 

 

It’s not just a rough patch for the kc offense….theyve looked off all season 

[buffalo2218]

1 hour ago, chongli said:

 

The problem is no other team in the West is taking advantage of it (Raiders maybe, but too little, too late). Those MF'ers are still going to win the division and get a home game.

Honestly, there's no other place I would rather see KC bounced out

[QLBillsFan]

22 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

What a rollercoaster this fanbase is. After the superbowl last year most of the fans grudgingly agreed that Mahomes is better and Allen is behind him. Some even thought Burrow was better than Allen. The struggles early in the season made that narrative even more prevalent. And now that the team is playing a little better and the defending champs are having a rough patch it’s back to Allen is the best that ever was. Crazy stuff. Let’s hope that the Bills can at least advance further than the downtrodden Chiefs this playoffs or it’d really be silly. 

I am not saying Josh is better but all these QBs to some degree are a function of where they land and with who. Josh on SF or the Rams ? Or the Bears.. all would have different outcomes or does he just just power through ? 

[thronethinker]

3 hours ago, Punch said:

 

 

What Kermit the frogs meltdown sounded like after letting it all out on Miss Piggy. 

[Old Coot]

2 hours ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

Cry for me baby! Cry!

 

Remember, Ralphie beats up this kid in this scene.