Bills at Chargers, Game Week Thread Sat. 8 pm on Peacock (7 pm for us Flyover Folks)

[RiotAct]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I still have ptsd from when we went out there with Nate peterman, yes I realize this was a very long time ago 

Only 6 years ago, but feels like an eternity.

[Punching Bag]

11 hours ago, jletha said:

We usually play well in December when it matters most. Also McD tends to do very well against inexperienced QBs. I really cant remember a rookie or first-year-starting QB that beat us except Mac Jones in The Wind Game.

 

He uses too many disguised coverages and blitzes, Easton Stick will have his work cut out for him.

 

Since 2020 in December:

2020: 4-0

2021: 2-2

2022: 4-0

2023: 2-?

[Since1981]

There’s no way BUF loses this game to a hockey stick. The team is in beast playoff mode now. Just hope they can then be “up” for future games. Get a 3 score lead and rest guys (praying to football gods)

[fergie's ire]

13 hours ago, AKC said:

 

He has been a career long liability against the run, not for lack of enthusiasm but due to his high center of gravity. Reminds me of John McCargo- sort of a Weebles Wobble body type. When he's healthy he has good feet and it allows him at his size to be effective as a pass rusher. He's an asset as a #3DT and he gives some flexibility against some offenses but he just can't make up for that playing high/tackling high in the run game. His emotional side has some yin and yeng to it too- he sometimes is so fast to celebrate that he misses the end of plays.

Or sometimes he dives at a quarterback who is five yards away and running away from him and belly flops his way onto IR.

[taglientep]

8 hours ago, RiotAct said:

Only 6 years ago, but feels like an eternity.

Was at that game ….. pain

[CSBill]

22 minutes ago, taglientep said:

Was at that game ….. pain

 

I'm sorry. Are you still seeing a Counselor?

[Scott7975]

18 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Actually I'll take this a step further.  Phillips NOT making huge plays in the backfield has been a sign of improved play *within the Bills scheme*.

 

Phillips weakness as a DT has always been "chasing stats" at the expense of maintaining gap integrity and run defense.  When you see a guy like Tre Edmunds giving Phillips an earful on the field after giving up a big run play, you KNOW he ain't doing it right (which I saw at least twice last season).

 

This season, to my admittedly inexpert eye, Phillips has done a much better job at "minding the store" and playing within the scheme.

 

 

I don't think Miami is a fraud.  You'd have to state your case for that to persuade me.

 

But I do agree with the others who say that if the Bills can't beat the Herbert and Keenan Allen and Bosa-less Chargers, even going on the road on a short week while the Chargers have extra rest, we don't deserve playoffs.

 

I don't think Miami is a fraud.  You don't get to that record without being a good team.  I don't care who they played.  I also don't think they are a contender just yet. My personal belief is that Tua is a good QB, but he is also a system QB that relies on the speed and offensive design to excel.  He chucks balls to holes in a zone and relies on his receivers to run and get it.  Especially when that is downfield.  While that's ok when it works, it breaks down when they face a defense that knows how to limit the system. 

 

They are bound to run into that in the playoffs eventually.  Tua is not very good off structure or when his first read or two is not there.  He makes many mistakes and is turnover prone.  Tua should have like twice the turnovers he actually has because the defense drops a lot of sure INTs. He also makes up for a weak oline because he gets rid of the ball so quick.  Thats why it's so important to take that first read or two away because he isn't good under pressure and that pressure will get there. Then I look at their D.  Its good but it isn't great.

 

I agree with you on the Phillips stuff too.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Scott7975

[Scott7975]

17 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Easton Stick throwing to a cast of nobodies.

 

It's good for us, but not necessarily bad for him.  Dude was a backup so most of his reps were probably taken with the lower chart receivers.  He probably has better chemistry with them.

16 hours ago, Process said:

Jones and AJ both being questionable is a huge W. Looks like they'll both be back by NE and than hopefully close to full go for Miami or playoffs.

 

 

 

Getting Jones back even by Miami is huge!

16 hours ago, Warcodered said:

If they just did that then he practices what 1 day? Yeah he's not playing, and I guess it doesn't matter when they do it at this point there's less than 21 days left before there last game.

 

Agree. This is just a move for them to give him a chance to play again this season.  Has no downside as their season will end by the window.

[Scott7975]

15 hours ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I hadn't heard anything about Phillips being on IR?

 

EDIT: Apparently he is. That means he's out for the rest of the regular season. Back for playoffs?

 

4 game minimum so yes, out for rest of regular season at least.

[taglientep]

35 minutes ago, CSBill said:

 

I'm sorry. Are you still seeing a Counselor?

A few.  But that tailgate before was incredible.  Was such a great time. All

my wife’s family is in CA and was my b day week so it was a great trip except the game.   Plus being in a 20k seat stadium was an experience of its own. My friends could hear me on TV they said, super cool to hear.  
 

craziest part was a couple from Germany sat next to my wife and I where this was their first ever football game, so I got to teach them the game as much as I could while attempting to drink the stadium out of Pacifico on draft.  

[Scott7975]

 

Full text: "Joe Brady’s ability to get James Cook (& RBs in general) involved in the passing game as primary options/natural parts of the progression is one of his calling cards. But his ability to create & take advantage of leverage & angles with the use of shifts, motion, & alignment, has arguably stood out the most in his short tenure as #Bills OC. Offensive football is often like geometry, & Brady has been adept at manipulating spatial relationships thus far in both the pass & run game"

[Simon]

20 hours ago, Gman10 said:

Off topic but @Simon Im curious, when can I make a thread? Ive been here for 3 months, 50+ posts etc!? 
 

go Bills!

 

Sorry man, I don't know the precise answer to that; I'm just the janitor. 

fwiw, I'm thinking  the answer is somewhere between 50-100 posts.

[jletha]

9 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Since 2020 in December:

2020: 4-0

2021: 2-2

2022: 4-0

2023: 2-?

12-2, pretty good!

 

And to further clarify, what I really mean is December into January (regular season): from 2020-2022 we closed on a 4 game win streak each year. And are 2-0 thus far.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I don't think Miami is a fraud.  You don't get to that record without being a good team.  I don't care who they played.  I also don't think they are a contender just yet.

 

That's exactly why they are a fraud though. With the record they have they should be seen as a contender. But most people don't view them as legit contenders. Can anyone see them going on the road and winning at Baltimore or at KC in the playoffs? Or, without the bye, can they win three straight games against playoff teams? They have a chance to prove they can do that starting now as they finish vs. Dallas, @ Baltimore and vs. Bills. If they win all three they will be a team to be feared. Odds are they go 1-2. 

 

Heck, we are hearing from the media now that the Bills are right there with Baltimore as the best team in the conference now and our record is only 8-6.

[Rich Stadium Original]

Chargers may come out very spirited after last debacle, and its very important to get on them early. Keep the mistakes and turnovers to a minimum, and the difference in the game will be the Bills talent...certainly don't want a very close game going into the 4th quarter.

[eball]

10 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

That's exactly why they are a fraud though. With the record they have they should be seen as a contender. But most people don't view them as legit contenders. Can anyone see them going on the road and winning at Baltimore or at KC in the playoffs? Or, without the bye, can they win three straight games against playoff teams? They have a chance to prove they can do that starting now as they finish vs. Dallas, @ Baltimore and vs. Bills. If they win all three they will be a team to be feared. Odds are they go 1-2. 

 

Heck, we are hearing from the media now that the Bills are right there with Baltimore as the best team in the conference now and our record is only 8-6.

 

I don’t know why @ScottLaw disagreed with this, but it is exactly right.  Miami is consistently in the top 5 in the various “power rankings” floating around the intarwebs, but they have approximately 0.0% chance to actually win the Super Bowl as they currently exist.  Fans and media ooh and aah over the bombs to Hill and Waddle, and Mostert has had a great year, but when they face good teams they struggle.

 

The Fish have an opportunity to prove everyone wrong starting this Sunday.  I don’t think they’ll do it.  I think Dallas beats them in a shootout, Baltimore bludgeons them, and the Bills finish them off.

 

 

[Scott7975]

17 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

That's exactly why they are a fraud though. With the record they have they should be seen as a contender. But most people don't view them as legit contenders. Can anyone see them going on the road and winning at Baltimore or at KC in the playoffs? Or, without the bye, can they win three straight games against playoff teams? They have a chance to prove they can do that starting now as they finish vs. Dallas, @ Baltimore and vs. Bills. If they win all three they will be a team to be feared. Odds are they go 1-2. 

 

Heck, we are hearing from the media now that the Bills are right there with Baltimore as the best team in the conference now and our record is only 8-6.

 

I mean I guess some peoples idea of "fraud" is different then mine.  You can still be a good team without being a superbowl contender.  Besides, anything can happen in the playoffs.  They could get a run of bad teams and just have to beat one good one.  It's possible to happen.  It just takes some luck.  The ball bounces the wrong way or refs are stupid or a missed field goal or some fluke catch.  Like anything can happen any game.

 

To me, a fraud team is like the Giants last year.  Their record was ok but not so great.  Then they won a playoff game.  That team wasn't good but they managed to get in the playoffs AND win a game.  Miami actually is good.  Just because they haven't beaten a team above .500 doesn't mean they can't.  It just means they haven't.

[fergie's ire]

7 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I don’t know why @ScottLaw disagreed with this, but it is exactly right.  Miami is consistently in the top 5 in the various “power rankings” floating around the intarwebs, but they have approximately 0.0% chance to actually win the Super Bowl as they currently exist.  Fans and media ooh and aah over the bombs to Hill and Waddle, and Mostert has had a great year, but when they face good teams they struggle.

 

The Fish have an opportunity to prove everyone wrong starting this Sunday.  I don’t think they’ll do it.  I think Dallas beats them in a shootout, Baltimore bludgeons them, and the Bills finish them off.

 

 

I hope you're right, but I have a bad feeling they'll crush the Cowboys.  I agree they are a fraud in the sense that they are good or even very good...but not as good as their record suggests.  That said, I just feel like the Cowboys weaknesses are run defense and an inability to adjust when schemed against.  Dolphins have a really good run offense and a coach known for his schemes.  Seems like a bad matchup for the Cowboys.

[Scott7975]

 

[Beck Water]

20 hours ago, eball said:

Not a "fraud" per se, but they haven't beaten a good team yet.

 

*looks at Miami schedule*

point taken

[eball]

45 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

I hope you're right, but I have a bad feeling they'll crush the Cowboys.  I agree they are a fraud in the sense that they are good or even very good...but not as good as their record suggests.  That said, I just feel like the Cowboys weaknesses are run defense and an inability to adjust when schemed against.  Dolphins have a really good run offense and a coach known for his schemes.  Seems like a bad matchup for the Cowboys.

 

Dallas has beaten teams with good rushing offenses (i.e., Philly).  In this game, I think their own offense will be able to easily put up points and their pass rush and pass D will force some Tuanovers.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by eball

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

Dallas has beaten teams with good rushing offenses (i.e., Philly).  In this game, I think their own offense will be able to easily put up points and their pass rush and pass D will force some Tuanovers.

 

 

Issue for Dallas is they could be without Tyron smith and/or Zack Martin.

 

Sounds like Martin is trending towards playing, but smith not

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Miami

 

Good enough to make the playoffs? Yes. Looking at the QB starter injury crazy in the AFC and the talent they have, yes, they deserve to be in the playoffs.

 

Are they battle tested? Laughably no. They do not have wins on any team with a winning record. They drew the team with the worst record in football from the NFC. They lost to the worst team in the AFC South. The strongest team they beat was the currently 0.500 Broncos during an early season skid.

 

The next three games are three of the best 5 teams they play all year (Chief, Eagles, Cowboys, Ravens, Bills x2).

 

Now, Dallas is #5 on that list and are also frauds, so who knows. Baltimore I expect a spanking

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

53 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

I hope you're right, but I have a bad feeling they'll crush the Cowboys.  I agree they are a fraud in the sense that they are good or even very good...but not as good as their record suggests.  That said, I just feel like the Cowboys weaknesses are run defense and an inability to adjust when schemed against.  Dolphins have a really good run offense and a coach known for his schemes.  Seems like a bad matchup for the Cowboys.

Dallas can probably play dime against Miami and stop the run…their corners can probably hold up in single coverage against tyreek or waddle too if they want to single cover one of them.  Miamis offensive line is worse than ours at full strength and wayyyy worse than ours with all those injuries.  They also really dont have to worry about spying tua 

 

it’s almost better we ran all over Dallas last week because I doubt they’ll be caught off guard if Miami attempts the same 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

53 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

I hope you're right, but I have a bad feeling they'll crush the Cowboys.  I agree they are a fraud in the sense that they are good or even very good...but not as good as their record suggests.  That said, I just feel like the Cowboys weaknesses are run defense and an inability to adjust when schemed against.  Dolphins have a really good run offense and a coach known for his schemes.  Seems like a bad matchup for the Cowboys.

 

I will say that while Miami does have a run game, it's success is based on fundamentally different principles than what the Bills exploiting. 
 

The Cowboys are built light, and designed to fight a shootout where they can use Parsons to rush the passer. To counter this, the Bills were rolling out Jumbo formations: 6 OL, 1 TE, 1 FB, 1 RB and running it down their throats and they just don't have the bodies to counter in their base and their adjustments didn't work.

 

Miami's run success comes when you use the threat of Hill and Waddle to spread a defense thin, make them account for the pass game and then pound them. The Cowboys (in theory) are better built to win that kind of fight.

[AKC]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

It's good for us, but not necessarily bad for him.  Dude was a backup so most of his reps were probably taken with the lower chart receivers.  He probably has better chemistry with them.

 

 

There is no universe in which the Chargers replacing Keenan Allen with anyone else on their roster is a plus for them.

Edited December 22, 2023 by AKC

[MikePJ76]

13 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Dallas has beaten teams with good rushing offenses (i.e., Philly).  In this game, I think their own offense will be able to easily put up points and their pass rush and pass D will force some Tuanovers.

 

 

I thought all along Dallas will beat miami and though they would do it by ten points or more.

 

But this morning it is sounding like Zach Martin and Tyron Smith might both miss the game.  That is not good for Dallas because their qb shrinks with the best of them when things are not perfect for him.

 

the other side of that is that it will essentially be a home game for Dallas, the dolphins offensive line is also banged up and Dallas just got embarrassed and losing again on the road could crush them mentally.

 

Hopefully Dallas finds a way to win something like 28-24.  

[Beck Water]

32 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

I hope you're right, but I have a bad feeling they'll crush the Cowboys.  I agree they are a fraud in the sense that they are good or even very good...but not as good as their record suggests.  That said, I just feel like the Cowboys weaknesses are run defense and an inability to adjust when schemed against.  Dolphins have a really good run offense and a coach known for his schemes.  Seems like a bad matchup for the Cowboys.

 

So to this point: Miami has a coach who is a disciple of Kyle Shanahan.  The Cowboys haven't beaten the 49ers since 2020, and this season the 9'ers kicked Dallas in the teeth and took their lunch money.  Coaching advantage: Miami, we agree there.  And, Dallas may still be missing its NT on D and 2 OL on offense.
 

Would you really call Miami's run offense "really good"?  They had a 5 game stretch earlier in the season where they were just running all over teams - the Patriots, Broncos, Giants, and Panthers.  222 yds, 350 yds - but I think that was against teams that had given up.  They gained 142 yds against us and it didn't matter.

 

But they've also had games where they haven't broken double digits -Eagles, 2nd Patriots, Raiders, 2nd Jets.  117 vs KC.  A lot of that seems to depend on whether or not they are missing Achane?  He played against Denver, Buffalo, and the Giants - the huge games.  Got hurt.  He's been back for 3 games, but he doesn't look as explosive.  He's been on the injury report with different body parts - knee, ribs, now toe.  DNP and LP so far this week.

 

Mostert has also been on and off this injury report.  This week is "on", with two DNPs.

 

So I'm not sure the Dolphins have a really good run offense right now.   They ran for 77 yds against the Jets, and if the Jets had an actual offense, they could have been in trouble.  I would say they have an up-and-down run offense that depends on the health of their backs.

 

I could see this game going either way.  Dallas could "Cowboy up" and set out to prove that last week was a total fluke.  They're a coin-flip road team, but Miami, 77 degrees, and possible light shower is a far cry from Orchard Park, 40 degrees, and raining steadily.  Or Mike McDaniel could prove he's Shanahan's disciple and successfully kick (fin-slap?) the Cowboys while they're down.  Frankly, I'm not sure he has the healthy horses to do that last, but, we'll see.
 

[PaattMaann]

20 hours ago, Dan said:

You are wrong.  You can’t just ignore all his good play and conclude that what’s left is useless.  
 

This is a different team.  I would be shocked if they come out flat.  At some point we have to leave the past failures of this franchise ..in the past. 

 

"all his good play" ??? WTF are you talking about? What good play has he had this season? He played well against the Cowboys...is that the ALL his good play you are referring to? He has been literal butt cheeks all season up until that game. A damn liability in every aspect. Having 10 men on the field would be better than him the majority of snaps. I am just thankful we don't have to see him for suit up again for the Bills. 

[MikePJ76]

4 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

 

I will say that while Miami does have a run game, it's success is based on fundamentally different principles than what the Bills exploiting. 
 

The Cowboys are built light, and designed to fight a shootout where they can use Parsons to rush the passer. To counter this, the Bills were rolling out Jumbo formations: 6 OL, 1 TE, 1 FB, 1 RB and running it down their throats and they just don't have the bodies to counter in their base and their adjustments didn't work.

 

Miami's run success comes when you use the threat of Hill and Waddle to spread a defense thin, make them account for the pass game and then pound them. The Cowboys (in theory) are better built to win that kind of fight.

Not exactly

 

Dallas lives in Dime defense mostly because they always have the lead and play downhill on defense.  With Jonathan hankins hurt they lack the big bodies to play a base defense that is heavier.  They tried slanting their line in the second half last week and then they put 8 guys in the box.  None of it worked.  

 

Mike Mcdaniel runs the same running game that the niners do.  The niners made Dallas look worse than Buffalo did.  On paper miami's speed is something that Dallas should be able to handle but they will have to prove they can.  

 

Buffalo playing the old school heavy jumbo last week is not something Miami will do but they will still present their problems.  The rams run the similar scheme to SF and Miami and they were running the ball pretty well on Dallas until stafford got hurt and the game got out of hand.  

 

I still think miami will run the ball decent on Dallas but with an injured line I am not sure it will matter if they can not protect Tua.

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

 

I will say that while Miami does have a run game, it's success is based on fundamentally different principles than what the Bills exploiting. 
 

The Cowboys are built light, and designed to fight a shootout where they can use Parsons to rush the passer. To counter this, the Bills were rolling out Jumbo formations: 6 OL, 1 TE, 1 FB, 1 RB and running it down their throats and they just don't have the bodies to counter in their base and their adjustments didn't work.

 

Miami's run success comes when you use the threat of Hill and Waddle to spread a defense thin, make them account for the pass game and then pound them. The Cowboys (in theory) are better built to win that kind of fight.

 

Good points.  The added point, is "speed".  They've got 2 top-10 backs in YPG, but that's not the meat-and-potatoes 3-4 ypc.  It's "miss me and it's shoe soles for you!" long runs.  If these guys are still hindered by injuries, that's not as effective.

 

But, Dallas is missing their NT

[Scott7975]

25 minutes ago, AKC said:

There is no universe in which the Chargers replacing Keenan Allen with anyone else on their roster is a plus for them.

 

I just mean that the QB will have better chemistry with receivers that he has been throwing to all year.  Obviously its not a plus for them as far as winning the game or anything.

[finn]

2 hours ago, jletha said:

12-2, pretty good!

 

And to further clarify, what I really mean is December into January (regular season): from 2020-2022 we closed on a 4 game win streak each year. And are 2-0 thus far.

Nick Wright dismissed the Bills fast start this year, saying they were a "September team." 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

43 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

Not exactly

 

Dallas lives in Dime defense mostly because they always have the lead and play downhill on defense.  With Jonathan hankins hurt they lack the big bodies to play a base defense that is heavier.  They tried slanting their line in the second half last week and then they put 8 guys in the box.  None of it worked.  

 

Mike Mcdaniel runs the same running game that the niners do.  The niners made Dallas look worse than Buffalo did.  On paper miami's speed is something that Dallas should be able to handle but they will have to prove they can.  

 

Buffalo playing the old school heavy jumbo last week is not something Miami will do but they will still present their problems.  The rams run the similar scheme to SF and Miami and they were running the ball pretty well on Dallas until stafford got hurt and the game got out of hand.  

 

I still think miami will run the ball decent on Dallas but with an injured line I am not sure it will matter if they can not protect Tua.

All good points but I’m gonna nitpick the sf made the cowboys look worse than we did point 😂. I think we woulda rushed for 400 yards in that game if we didn’t shut it down for the whole 4th quarter. I’d say it was pretty much equal as far as our offenses vs the cowboys defense goes. 

6 minutes ago, finn said:

Nick Wright dismissed the Bills fast start this year, saying they were a "September team." 

He also said the chiefs would go undefeated and they lost their first game haha 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[AKC]

23 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I just mean that the QB will have better chemistry with receivers that he has been throwing to all year.  Obviously its not a plus for them as far as winning the game or anything.

I always think of Allen as one of the hugely underrated players in the league. You're right Stick will know his B team guys well, I would just imagine having one of the surest handed guys in the game out there for my first start would be attractive if I were in his cleats?

[CNYfan]

The Bills/Chargers Thread is mostly Dallas/Miami?   

I hope our BB are staying focused on the Chargers competition.  

[Beck Water]

16 minutes ago, finn said:

Nick Wright Wrong dismissed the Bills fast start this year, saying they were a "September team." 

 

FIFY

12 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

He also said the chiefs would go undefeated and they lost their first game haha 

 

See above

[PaattMaann]

11 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

The Bills/Chargers Thread is mostly Dallas/Miami?   

I hope our BB are staying focused on the Chargers competition.  

 

we are fans, not players. I assure you that our BB are focused on the chargers lol 

[finn]

1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

Now, Dallas is #5 on that list and are also frauds, so who knows. Baltimore I expect a spanking

Is Baltimore for real? I haven't seen them play. Are they getting all the respect I'm seeing mostly because of their record or because they're as good as their record? 

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

The Bills/Chargers Thread is mostly Dallas/Miami?   

I hope our BB are staying focused on the Chargers competition.  

 

"Mostly" for values of 1 page (a dozen posts or so) out of 12+, including this?

If you want more Bills/Chargers content, why don't you add some instead of adding to the Dallas/Miami discussion?