Tyler Dunne story on McDermott - 3 parts, 25 interviews, one damning conclusion

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

People should not be giving lavish gifts to people that have decision making power over them. Either said or unsaid (this doesn't need to be said though, it should be part of their organizations annual compliance training)

 

McD: either says above or says something like that wasn't appropriate, or again doesn't even say it because he assumes it's obvious to people why you shouldn't accept that gift

 

Hall: I don't know what to tell you, they just really like me I guess

 

McD: but you're not here to be friends with them, you're their coach...

 

Or

 

Hall: I got this truck from my players!

 

McD: when, I didn't see them give it to you here?

 

Hall: at my house last night, we had a party

 

McD: (during covid restrictions) What do you mean?! I am paying you to coach the players, not he friends with them

 

___

 

Neither of those sound unreasonable to me as a reaction

That's because you haven't read the article

 

which says 'Multiple sources indicate that McDermott was especially harsh toward Hall and paid him a salary so low it was insulting.'

 

So since we're making up stories, maybe the wideouts all hated McDermott so much they decided to stick it to him for mistreating and underpaying their position coach and buy him a gift that was sure to drive McDermott crazy. 

[Mikie2times]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

"Tearing a person down". 

 

 

As far as the Buffalo Bills fan base goes, I think there are two major portions of it: the portion of the fanbase that wants a Lombardi Trophy before they die, and a portion of the fanbase who don't care so much about winning but are overly emotional and weird when it comes to the head coach and some of the players.

 

All I want is to see this team win a Super Bowl. That's the bottom line. And it's a bottom line business, quite frankly. And Sean McDermott ain't it. It's not happening with him. Period.

 

And if we have an owner who refuses to cut ties with him for whatever reason (as reported very recently), then that Super Bowl portion of the fanbase is going to use whatever there is available and do whatever they have to do to put enough pressure on Pegula to make it happen.

 

No one is "gleefully tearing a person down" or "ripping the joy out of someone" or any of the other dramatic statements you made. I like McDermott the man. Respect him a ton. But he's just not good enough. Flat out. He's not. 

 

The other emo portion of the fanbase can cry their little hearts out about it all they want but they're going to have to pull up their big boy pants and deal. This is the NFL. They should focus more on the Bandits or Canisius if they can't handle it.

😂

[Mark Vader]

On 12/7/2023 at 7:38 AM, PBF81 said:

 

Yeah, this was pretty obvious before the season started.  It was also just a matter of time before this came out.  

 

McD's increasingly running out of scapegoats.  

 

Our franchise really doesn't need this.  

 

 

Obvious to whom?

[Warcodered]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

"Tearing a person down". 

 

 

As far as the Buffalo Bills fan base goes, I think there are two major portions of it: the portion of the fanbase that wants a Lombardi Trophy before they die, and a portion of the fanbase who don't care so much about winning but are overly emotional and weird when it comes to the head coach and some of the players.

 

All I want is to see this team win a Super Bowl. That's the bottom line. And it's a bottom line business, quite frankly. And Sean McDermott ain't it. It's not happening with him. Period.

 

And if we have an owner who refuses to cut ties with him for whatever reason (as reported very recently), then that Super Bowl portion of the fanbase is going to use whatever there is available and do whatever they have to do to put enough pressure on Pegula to make it happen.

 

No one is "gleefully tearing a person down" or "ripping the joy out of someone" or any of the other dramatic statements you made. I like McDermott the man. Respect him a ton. But he's just not good enough. Flat out. He's not. 

 

The other emo portion of the fanbase can cry their little hearts out about it all they want but they're going to have to pull up their big boy pants and deal. This is the NFL. They should focus more on the Bandits or Canisius if they can't handle it.

Yeah I've been losing faith in McDermott more and more, doesn't make this article any better, the fact that it aligns with what you want apparently doesn't somehow make it bulletproof.

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, HardyBoy said:

 

People should not be giving lavish gifts to people that have decision making power over them. Either said or unsaid (this doesn't need to be said though, it should be part of their organizations annual compliance training)

 

McD: either says above or says something like that wasn't appropriate, or again doesn't even say it because he assumes it's obvious to people why you shouldn't accept that gift

 

Hall: I don't know what to tell you, they just really like me I guess

 

McD: but you're not here to be friends with them, you're their coach...

 

Or

 

Hall: I got this truck from my players!

 

McD: when, I didn't see them give it to you here?

 

Hall: at my house last night, we had a party

 

McD: (during covid restrictions) What do you mean?! I am paying you to coach the players, not he friends with them

 

___

 

Neither of those sound unreasonable to me as a reaction

At the very least, those are plausible and rational considerations. If one was attempting to understand the complexity of a situation that would bear upon decisions about coaching personnel, one could not leave them out, without prejudice. I haven't been happy with McDermott, but I don't think he is psychotic and emotionally incapable of bonding with fellow human beings. The timing of this article is curious. Anyway, if the intent was to exacerbate the feelings of those inclined to have a negative appraisal of his coaching tenure, it has had the opposite effect on me. I'm still wary of his coaching ceiling. If the season continues to go sideways, I'll still be wanting to give Ben Johnson a call. But all this makes me want to dig my heels in, and hope McD rights the ship.

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

That's because you haven't read the article

 

which says 'Multiple sources indicate that McDermott was especially harsh toward Hall and paid him a salary so low it was insulting.'

 

So since we're making up stories, maybe the wideouts all hated McDermott so much they decided to stick it to him for mistreating and underpaying their position coach and buy him a gift that was sure to drive McDermott crazy. 

What does that even mean? He got promoted in 2019 Covid happened in 2020 did he get a pay cut? 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

10 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

What does that even mean? He got promoted in 2019 Covid happened in 2020 did he get a pay cut? 

 

Did you miss the whole players loving Hall to the point of wanting to buy him a truck and McDermott's reaction and after?

 

"Chad Hall played wide receiver, was much closer in age and — clearly — has a gift for managing egos in his room. The Bills receivers loved Hall so much that they bought him a truck for Christmas in 2020. An objectively touching moment that Isaiah McKenzie shared via Instagram. In the dark, in the rain, you see Stefon Diggs and Andre Roberts lead Hall out to the driveway with a beanie over the coach’s eyes. On the audio, Cole Beasley says that this was originally Gabe Davis’ idea and that they all chipped in.

 

It’s impossible for any sane person to watch this heartwarming video and not feel happy for Hall.

 

Obviously, this coach had made a profound impact on those receivers’ lives — why anyone gets into coaching in the first place.

 

But Sean McDermott? Oh boy. Sean McDermott was not pleased. One source described this as “a dark day at One Bills Drive.” Not only was the head coach pissed that players were gathering as a group during Covid, McDermott told his staff he pays them to be a coach. Not a friend. Other coaches could not believe his cold response. They had never seen anything like this in their careers."

Edited December 9, 2023 by EasternOHBillsFan

[Simon]

7 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

What does that even mean? He got promoted in 2019 Covid happened in 2020 did he get a pay cut? 

 

He was so poor, his truck got repo'd by the company McDermott's cousins' run; but the WR room made it right.

[Toyo321]

So much of where we are right now as a team and with McD was said before training camp.   Some really good flame throwing posts about firing McD and his questionable ability to coach and be a DC at the same time.  Giving him more responsibility has proven to be a really bad idea & has definitely not worked out in this teams favor.   There was a long post I added saying he was not even in the top ten HC's list in the NFL this year.  I wish we could pull some of that discussion back up as a reference but I was blown away when I said this guy was a liability back in July of this year, and how many people torched me for saying this and preached this guy up as the savior of this team.  These people are no where to be found now.....where are you.......Lol

 

Oh how the tides have changed..  I saw it two years ago that McD was not the answer as HC for this team and now we are dealing with this fool's flawed coaching philosophy - and the resultant purgatory that has enveloped this team, its players, and assistant coaches.  The only plus side of this idiots actions,  is that now he is digging his own grave and his exit from WNY is definitely within sight on the horizon.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Toyo321

[HardyBoy]

12 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

That's because you haven't read the article

 

which says 'Multiple sources indicate that McDermott was especially harsh toward Hall and paid him a salary so low it was insulting.'

 

So since we're making up stories, maybe the wideouts all hated McDermott so much they decided to stick it to him for mistreating and underpaying their position coach and buy him a gift that was sure to drive McDermott crazy. 

 

Absolutely plausible and a good point and kind of implied in the article. I had read the part on the low salary and basically the whole section on the Hall truck story...McD also came up from the bottom and I'm sure worked with many coaches who made it and even more who didn't and he was trying to make sure Hall was in the make it batch and he was so hard on him because he felt it was the best way to push him to make it. Not that paying him a low amount is right, but it might have been part of a larger vision to get him to be a head coach some day.

 

My point isn't that I know what happened at all, it's that only one point of view was offered when there could be a lot of other viable explanations for his behavior...McD being a jealous attention seeker...I dunno, I could absolutely him being way too high strung at times and freezing as a result and I think he should have coffee with Tom Caughlin asap probably, but to explain his behavior as being jealous, when at the same time him saying things like it's not your job to be friends with them.

 

That's not someone who is jealous of someone's closeness with players, that's someone who is saying that as a coach on his team his expectation is people have a boundary between player and coach...like if that's his perspective on player coach relationship, it literally means he would not be jealous of the relationships he isn't planning on having with people.

 

Ugh, the more I think about this the less and less sense the article is making from a logic perspective...how is he jealous of something he doesn't want to have?

[Reks Ryan]

On 12/7/2023 at 12:38 PM, wettlaufer said:

 

Reporter interviews 25 people. That's a lot. But yeah, he's biased because of something you believe happened but can't support in any way. That sounds like an awfully substantial analysis next to the guy who chased down 25 interview subjects and who were not homogenously anti-McDermott.

It’s hard to believe that he interviewed 25 people and no one would go on the record. In today’s world a lot of people are happy to put their name behind critical comments.   Dunne clearly went into this project biased against McDermott.

 

 

[JTown]

On 12/7/2023 at 11:33 AM, BBFL said:

Winning cures all. 

Uhmmm..... if you haven't noticed.   They aren't winning.  That is the problem.  Likely out of the playoffs if they fall below their abysmal .500 record. 

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

He sure sounds like a GM that supports his coach.  The brain trust here tells me that Beane will recommend firing him 

 

I believe so yes, but also this is to the media and the people watching it.  It's not like he is gonna come out and say yeah... McD bad we fire him soon.  Of course he is going to support him currently.  Its "coach speak."  It may not be coach speak but we would get nothing else at this point.

[letsgoteam]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

 

Everybody is missing the damn point, he's the WR Coach, it's his job to get up in their faces too not just be their buddy.

Not everyone on the coaching staff needs to be a hammer though

[Mikie2times]

Curious if anybody's opinion changed on Frazier. I was almost certain he was let go before and they tried to cover that up. But I don't see it that way anymore.

[PBF81]

40 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

Obvious to whom?

 

Myself for one, but others as well.  I posted it semi-regularly.  

 

[Orlando Tim]

On 12/7/2023 at 10:24 AM, Roundybout said:

https://www.golongtd.com/p/the-mcdermott-problem-part-i-blame?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
 

 

A very long read, and the other parts are only for paid subscribers, but his sources paint a picture of McD as a narcissistic control freak who won’t take accountability for anything. 
 

 

Do with this what you will. 

It seems about right that you would use this to crap on McD. Tyler stated that 13 seconds broke the team that went 13-3 last year despite all the injuries and a player almost dying on the field. You believe anything that is garbage, so I am even more confident it is trash. 

[Warcodered]

24 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

That's not someone who is jealous of someone's closeness with players, that's someone who is saying that as a coach on his team his expectation is people have a boundary between player and coach...like if that's his perspective on player coach relationship, it literally means he would not be jealous of the relationships he isn't planning on having with people.

An aspect of this that's not explored at all is that Hall was promoted in 2019 to the WR Coach before that he was the assistant WR coach, so this was his second year in 2020. He seemed/seems like a good young coach with potential at the time when we were thinking Daboll was going to be gone soon it we thought maybe Dorsey or Hall could fill the role of OC that's how high we were on him from the support he had from the WRs. But a big part of these young coaches coming up here is that there is a mentor role between McDermott the HC and Daboll OC over them. So beyond the fact that they did something that McDermott wouldn't have wanted repeated with the state of the NFL with Covid, it's also not that crazy that McDermott would try and teach a young position coach that there needs to be a degree of separation between him and his players.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Warcodered

[HardyBoy]

39 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

"Tearing a person down". 

 

 

As far as the Buffalo Bills fan base goes, I think there are two major portions of it: the portion of the fanbase that wants a Lombardi Trophy before they die, and a portion of the fanbase who don't care so much about winning but are overly emotional and weird when it comes to the head coach and some of the players.

 

All I want is to see this team win a Super Bowl. That's the bottom line. And it's a bottom line business, quite frankly. And Sean McDermott ain't it. It's not happening with him. Period.

 

And if we have an owner who refuses to cut ties with him for whatever reason (as reported very recently), then that Super Bowl portion of the fanbase is going to use whatever there is available and do whatever they have to do to put enough pressure on Pegula to make it happen.

 

No one is "gleefully tearing a person down" or "ripping the joy out of someone" or any of the other dramatic statements you made. I like McDermott the man. Respect him a ton. But he's just not good enough. Flat out. He's not. 

 

The other emo portion of the fanbase can cry their little hearts out about it all they want but they're going to have to pull up their big boy pants and deal. This is the NFL. They should focus more on the Bandits or Canisius if they can't handle it.

 

Use whatever means possible to get him fired...Tyler Dunne, is that you?!

 

Of all the sports, fan support matters by far the least in the nfl... very few home games and the vast majority of the money comes from the TV deals and league wide revenue sharing.

 

I could see ticket sales being important for cash flow stuff, but the Pegulas seem to have plenty of liquid money that they can fund the cash flow until the league wide dispersments are paid, and for all we know they might not mind operating at a loss because it helps offset gains elsewhere.

 

Now other sports with regional TV deals and 41 or 81 home games and much more limited league wide revenue sharing, sure, but not the NFL.

 

Also, how do you know that Pegula isn't fully supportive of and wants coaches that have boundaries between player and coach? 

[BBFL]

12 minutes ago, JTown said:

Uhmmm..... if you haven't noticed.   They aren't winning.  That is the problem.  Likely out of the playoffs if they fall below their abysmal .500 record. 

You mean, we aren’t undefeated and cruising to a #1 seed superbowl????

 

Man. I’m crushed at this news. 

Thanks for helping me notice I guess. 

[HardyBoy]

5 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

An aspect of this that's not explored at all is that Hall was promoted in 2019 to the WR Coach before that he was the assistant WR coach, so this was his second year in 2020. He seemed/seems like a good young coach with potential at the time when we were thinking Daboll was going to be gone soon it we thought maybe Dorsey or Hall could fill the role of OC that's how high we were on him from the support he had from the WRs. But a big part of these young coaches coming up here is that there is a mentor role between McDermott the HC and Daboll OC over them. So beyond the fact that they did something that McDermott wouldn't have wanted repeated with the state of the NFL with Covid, it's also not that crazy that McDermott would try and teach a young position coach that there needs to be a degree of separation between him and his players.

 

And McD started all the way at the bottom himself and worked his way up and I'm sure is mentoring based on experience and where he saw other coaches with a ton of potential flame out.

[strive_for_five_guy]

38 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Did you miss the whole players loving Hall to the point of wanting to buy him a truck and McDermott's reaction and after?

 

"Chad Hall played wide receiver, was much closer in age and — clearly — has a gift for managing egos in his room. The Bills receivers loved Hall so much that they bought him a truck for Christmas in 2020. An objectively touching moment that Isaiah McKenzie shared via Instagram. In the dark, in the rain, you see Stefon Diggs and Andre Roberts lead Hall out to the driveway with a beanie over the coach’s eyes. On the audio, Cole Beasley says that this was originally Gabe Davis’ idea and that they all chipped in.

 

It’s impossible for any sane person to watch this heartwarming video and not feel happy for Hall.

 

Obviously, this coach had made a profound impact on those receivers’ lives — why anyone gets into coaching in the first place.

 

But Sean McDermott? Oh boy. Sean McDermott was not pleased. One source described this as “a dark day at One Bills Drive.” Not only was the head coach pissed that players were gathering as a group during Covid, McDermott told his staff he pays them to be a coach. Not a friend. Other coaches could not believe his cold response. They had never seen anything like this in their careers."

I haven’t been able to view all 80+ pages of discussion, although is there any commentary on this situation being an example of the friction between Daboll and McD?  Totally could see Daboll being happy for Hall here, and getting into an argument w McD about it.

[HardyBoy]

Just now, strive_for_five_guy said:

I haven’t been able to view all 80+ pages of discussion, although is there any commentary on this situation being an example of the friction between Daboll and McD?  Totally could see Daboll being happy for Hall here, and getting into an argument w McD about it.

 

Based on his reaction saying how hurt he was by reading it, my guess is very few if any of the sources actually said any of this to his face in a constructive way, but just a guess. 

[Bimmer323i]

At the end of the day who really gives a *uck what anybody said… Let’s just beat the lIving *hit outta the Cheifs on Sunday and will all be happy…..

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

So subordinates buying a new truck for a supervisor that has massive decision making power and control over future earnings is at best a massive perceived conflict of interest.

 

The source saying he "thought it was the coolest thing ever, but McD was jealous of the relationship the coach had with his players because McD did not have that type of relationship..."

 

So that really makes me question the lens through which the sources are seeing things through... I'm not saying the source is being at all dishonest, but I would be livid if I was a CEO of a company and found out that an employee bought their manager say a $5k vacation as a thank you for helping them do so well and get promoted.

 

It doesn't raise into question the honesty of the source at all, but it makes it very clear that that source does not have an understanding of what might have caused McD to behave how he behaved and attributed something to jealously, when I think it would be more McD felt subordinates giving gifts of value to supervisors is a huge at best perceived conflict of interest and there are potentially huge civil liabilities for that type of stuff/even if not the case, would absolutely be something I personally would not want as a part of my organizational culture...gifts should not flow up stream in an organization for a wide range of reasons

 

We aren't talking some corporate environment here where somebody is sleeping their way to the top.  A bunch of players who make tons of money chipped in to buy a gift for their low paid WR coach that they were very fond of and friends with. It was done with nothing but love.  There is nothing that isn't ethical here and no civil liability problems.  What conflict of interest?

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I don't know if it's true, but someone upthread said Dunne is close to disgruntled ex-employees Doug Whaley and Russ Brandon.  He's also had ex-employee Jim Monos on his show a fair bit.

 

I agree that it's probably looking out for Dunne's bottom line in drawing in subscribers rather than motivated as a hit piece but if two align, well....

 

....and the Conspiracy Theorist at the back of my skull keeps poking me and saying "what if someone on the Chiefs paid Dunne off?"

 

Come on now.  Now people are reaching for conspiracy theories?  I mean I will buy into the guy is looking to make a buck.  It's his job, of course he is looking to make a buck.  But the Chiefs paying him off?  Thats a little ridiculous.

 

As far as looking to make a buck talk... I highly doubt he would do anything to risk his integrity as a journalist, and he is well respected, trying to grab 8 bucks from some Bills mafia for one month.  He is obviously intelligent.  I think he is smart enough to know that you can't throw away your entire career for a one month money grab.  It won't be that much money.  He ain't retiring on that.  If he wanted to do that he would write some corruption piece on the NFL or some referree corruption or something that is much broader and has more chance at subscribership across the entire NFL fans.  Not just Bills mafia. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Scott7975

[Breakout Squad]

McDermott sounded broken down and clearly hurt. Watching his press conference you could see this is really hitting him hard. I felt bad for him. 

[Buffalo03]

1 hour ago, Mikie2times said:

It took legendary coach Jim Caldwell his first year to go to a Super Bowl with the same Colts team. His first year he left Tampa they win a Super Bowl.  He has a career 9-10 record in the postseason. Lucked his way into one Super Bowl against one of the weakest Super Bowl opponents in NFL history after a 21-3 comeback in the AFC championship by what I presume wasn't his defense. Dungy is McDermott. Hell, they basically run the same defense, they're the same person. If that is what your vision of success looks like, no thanks. 

He was in Tampa for 6 years. He had 4 playoff appearances with Mediocre to bad QBs including an NFC championship game appearance with Shaun King as his QB. He was fired in Tampa after 3 consecutive playoff seasons. The playoffs are a success you know. Not the same success as winning a SuperBowl but it's still success. Considering where Tampa was when he took that team over. And yes, there was a lot of choking his first 4 years in Indy but he eventually got to a Super Bowl. And Jim Caldwell, you can argue won with Dungy's team. Kinda like how Tomlin won with Cowher's team in 08 and George Seifert won with Bill Walsh's team one year after he left San Francisco. The pieces of that Colts team that were there were what Duny built. One Year is not enough time to make it "your team". Dungy was a good head coach. Nowhere near bad as described 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Buffalo03

[JohnNord]

13 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Come on now.  Now people are reaching for conspiracy theories?  I mean I will buy into the guy is looking to make a buck.  It's his job, of course he is looking to make a buck.  But the Chiefs paying him off?  Thats a little ridiculous.

 

As far as looking to make a buck talk... I highly doubt he would do anything to risk his integrity as a journalist, and he is well respected, trying to grab 8 bucks from some Bills mafia for one month.  He is obviously intelligent.  I think he is smart enough to know that you can't throw away your entire career for a one month money grab.  It won't be that much money.  He ain't retiring on that.

He explained on Cowherd that he was writing the story and sped up the process after the Eagles loss since he felt it summarized the issues he was writing about.  Plus he had an extra week.  So yes, it was 100% a strategic move on his part to get the story out.  But it’s not like he was sitting on the article waiting for a bad time to put it out.   Obviously no conspiracy.  And if he put a lot of work into the story, I don’t blame him for not waiting until the right time to publish.

 

One criticism that I do feel is legit - on Cowherd he was asked if the sources came to him or if he had to dig.  He didn’t answer the question but it sounded like he had to dig.  So I think it’s fair to wonder whether he started with a preconceived idea and sought out disgruntled players to support his thesis.  
 

This is where being critical works both ways.  I think it’s foolish to bring that the “sour grapes” angle among some of his sources (cough cough Quinton Spain) is not a factor.  So along with the conspiracy talk, it’s also foolish to believe that his “sources” didn’t have an agenda.  

Edited December 9, 2023 by JohnNord

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

I guess what I’m saying is its probably a pretty unique scenario. It would be hard to anticipate. 
 

Because we’ve never seen it before 

 

I'm sure its happened.  Just because it isn't in the media doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  I remember the sabres players buying the equipment manager a snow mobile.  Not quite the same thing but sometimes players just love the people around them and give them gifts.  This was a chip in from the crew because they loved their low paid coach.  Nothing more. There was no ill intent to get promoted off the practice squad or any other garbage jazz to be mad about.

[Breakout Squad]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

He was in Tampa for 6 years. He had 4 playoff appearances with Mediocre to bad QBs including an NFC championship game appearance with Shaun King as his QB. He was fired in Tampa after 3 consecutive playoff seasons. The playoffs are a success you know. Not the same success as winning a SuperBowl but it's still success. Considering where Tampa was when he took that team over. And yes, there was a lot of choking his first 4 years in Indy but he eventually got to a Super Bowl. And Jim Caldwell, you can argue won with Dungy's team. Kinda like how Tomlin won with Cowher's team in 08 and George Seifert won with Bill Walsh's team one year after he left San Francisco. The pieces of that Colts team that were there were what Duny built. One Year is not enough time to make it "your team". Dungy was a good head coach. Nowhere near bad as described 

Reminds me of Gruden going from Oakland to TB. 

[Mikie2times]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

He was in Tampa for 6 years. He had 4 playoff appearances with Mediocre to bad QBs including an NFC championship game appearance with Shaun King as his QB. He was fired in Tampa after 3 consecutive playoff seasons. The playoffs are a success you know. Not the same success as winning a SuperBowl but it's still success. Considering where Tampa was when he took that team over. And yes, there was a lot of choking his first 4 years in Indy but he eventually got to a Super Bowl. And Jim Caldwell, you can argue won with Dungy's team. Kinda like how Tomlin won with Cowher's team in 08 and George Seifert won with Bill Walsh's team one year after he left San Francisco. The pieces of that Colts team that were there were what Duny built. One Year is not enough time to make it "your team". Dungy was a good head coach. Nowhere near bad as described 

Kind of weird when two head coaches go to the Super Bowl the first year you leave “your” team. Again, he is Sean. Regular season success, fails in the playoffs. Same bend but don’t break defense. I guarantee these same conversations happened in Tampa and Indy when he was there.  

Edited December 9, 2023 by Mikie2times

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Um, rich people bribe super low level beaurocrats all the time, I'm confused how it matters how much money someone is making...they are giving a decision maker who is a gatekeeper to their future earnings not just a gift of value, but of significant value. 

 

It can be a perceived quid pro quo and even if it's not the case, if it's perceived that is a conflict of interest and is an issue, potentially an issue with significant monetary consequences 

 

Just stop man. This isn't what happened here and you know it.

[Warcodered]

6 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

He explained on Cowherd that he was writing the story and sped up the process after the Eagles loss since he felt it summarized the issues he was writing about.  Plus he had an extra week.  So yes, it was 100% a strategic move on his part to get the story out.  But it’s not like he was sitting on the article waiting for a bad time to put it out.   Obviously no conspiracy.  And if he put a lot of work into the story, I don’t blame him for not waiting until the right time to publish.

 

One criticism that I do feel is legit - on Cowherd he was asked if the sources came to him or if he had to dig.  He didn’t answer the question but it sounded like he had to dig.  So I think it’s fair to wonder whether he started with a preconceived idea and sought out players to support his thesis.  
 

This is where being critical works both ways.  I think it’s foolish to bring that the “sour grapes” angle among some of his sources (cough cough Quinton Spain) is not a factor.  So along with the conspiracy talk, it’s also foolish to believe that his “sources” didn’t have an agenda.  

So he watched us nearly beat the Eagles despite poor coaching and god awful officiating, and then definitely didn't think to himself "I'd better put this out before they potentially beat the very beatable looking Chiefs."

Edited December 9, 2023 by Warcodered

[Doc Brown]

2 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

One criticism that I do feel is legit - on Cowherd he was asked if the sources came to him or if he had to dig.  He didn’t answer the question but it sounded like he had to dig.  So I think it’s fair to wonder whether he started with a preconceived idea and sought out players to support his thesis.  

You think?

[Roundybout]

9 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

I'm honestly amazed YOU of all people were the one to start this thread.

 

I report, you decide 😉

[Doc Brown]

7 minutes ago, Breakout Squad said:

Reminds me of Gruden going from Oakland to TB. 

Then spending six more seasons there without even winning another playoff game.  Makes you wonder if they would've won less, the same, or more SB's if they kept Dungy.

[Breakout Squad]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

Then spending six more seasons there without even winning another playoff game.  Makes you wonder if they would've won less, the same, or more SB's if they kept Dungy.

It’s possible. I personally can’t stand Dungy. Holier than everyone 

[Buffalo03]

11 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Kind of weird when two head coaches go to the Super Bowl the first year you leave “your” team. Again, he is Sean. Regular season success, fails in the playoffs. Same bend but don’t break defense. I guarantee these same conversations happened in Tampa and Indy when he was there.  

I'm sure they did. But you called him a bad head coach. He wasn't. Tony Dungy had more success with less his first 6 years in Tampa than Belichick had his first 6 years with better talent between Cleveland and New England. Belichick who everyone rides the dick of, had 5 losing seasons his first 6 years as head coach. Dungy had 4 playoff seasons and an NFC championship game appearance with Mediocre and garbage at QB. Just saying 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Buffalo03

[SinceThe70s]

7 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I'm sure its happened.  Just because it isn't in the media doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  I remember the sabres players buying the equipment manager a snow mobile.  Not quite the same thing but sometimes players just love the people around them and give them gifts.  This was a chip in from the crew because they loved their low paid coach.  Nothing more. There was no ill intent to get promoted off the practice squad or any other garbage jazz to be mad about.

 

If the stipulation is that we've never heard of an act of kindness like this occurring on another team I'd counter with my doubt that fans of other NFL teams have any awareness that it happened with the Bills. From my corner of the earth the only part of the article that had any legs is the 9/11 reference - and even that appears to be in the rear view mirror already.