SoMAn Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 summation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 58 minutes ago, Scott7975 said: Yes, it is just accounting. Eventually they will have to account for every penny though haha You only have to account for every paid penny. So restructures this applies to, sure, because you are giving money now to buy cap space and you have to account for that. But in terms of then bringing guys in you can still allow yourself flex with non-guaranteed money. The Bills are at the point where they have some decisions to make, but they are more to do with refreshing an older roster than being cap strung IMO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerBillsFan Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 8 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: Greg Tompsett is making the podcast rounds in the bye week this week and talking cap. Gave a pretty detailed plan on Cover1 and showed how the Bills could get themselves to about $72M UNDER the cap. Or $56M under without anything too crazy. Worth watching, or at least clicking around through, for anyone concerned with our cap situation next year. He was also on Locked On Bills to discuss our Free Agents and re-signing options As a little preview, the detailed plan to get to $72M... No Brainers - Cap Saved Restructure Josh - $23M Restructure Diggs - $13M Restructure Ed - $3M Release Hines - $5M Release Harty - $4M Total - $48M Being $29M OVER cap right now, these moves alone put us $19M UNDER. Tompsett's Preferred/Likely Moves - Cap Savings Extend Dawkins - $7M Extend Douglas - $6M Extend Johnson - $5M Release Siran Neal - $3M Release Sam Martin - $1M Restructure McGovern - $3M With these moves added to the above, the Bills would be $44M UNDER Painful but Possible - Cap Savings Release Poyer - $5.5M Release Tre - $6M Bills now $56M UNDER Prefer Not - Cap Savings Restructure Milano - $2.5M Restructure Knox - $6M Trade Elam - $165k Release Bates - $1.5M Release Morse - $5.5M Bills now $72M UNDER I type all that to once again reiterate, the cap is a myth. I have been saying this. Just a few years ago the saints were 100 mill over the cap and got under. 1 hour ago, SoMAn said: summation He isn't addressing a post June 1st cut of Von. No way Von can stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 8 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: Greg Tompsett is making the podcast rounds in the bye week this week and talking cap. Gave a pretty detailed plan on Cover1 and showed how the Bills could get themselves to about $72M UNDER the cap. Or $56M under without anything too crazy. Worth watching, or at least clicking around through, for anyone concerned with our cap situation next year. He was also on Locked On Bills to discuss our Free Agents and re-signing options As a little preview, the detailed plan to get to $72M... No Brainers - Cap Saved Restructure Josh - $23M Restructure Diggs - $13M Restructure Ed - $3M Release Hines - $5M Release Harty - $4M Total - $48M Being $29M OVER cap right now, these moves alone put us $19M UNDER. Tompsett's Preferred/Likely Moves - Cap Savings Extend Dawkins - $7M Extend Douglas - $6M Extend Johnson - $5M Release Siran Neal - $3M Release Sam Martin - $1M Restructure McGovern - $3M With these moves added to the above, the Bills would be $44M UNDER Painful but Possible - Cap Savings Release Poyer - $5.5M Release Tre - $6M Bills now $56M UNDER Prefer Not - Cap Savings Restructure Milano - $2.5M Restructure Knox - $6M Trade Elam - $165k Release Bates - $1.5M Release Morse - $5.5M Bills now $72M UNDER I type all that to once again reiterate, the cap is a myth. Dawk, I like your breakdown, and not sure if they considered the cap increase next year. The last estimate I read awhile back stated it will go up approximately $30 mil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 3 hours ago, davefan66 said: I get the cap concern. But if the Bills want to pony up the bucks, it isn’t as bad as it looks. Certainly the team wants to stay relevant, especially with the new stadium season tix (PSL’s) looming. One thing to remember is cutting players isn’t a zero sum game. Gotta fill that position with another warm body. And to stay relevant, those warm bodies need to be good players who may not come cheap. Filling the roster via the draft is a good way to manage the cap with cost effective rookie contracts. But impossible to know if those rookies will make meaningful impact. I’ve always felt an older or near the end of their contract players should have their replacement drafted a year or two before a decision has to be made(Bernard is a perfect example) That way they can learn from the guy they’re replacing and not be forced into action while their head is still spinning. Gives the coaches time to evaluate if they’re good enough to be the replacement and learn their strengths and weaknesses without hurting the team on the field. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 (edited) 58 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said: He isn't addressing a post June 1st cut of Von. No way Von can stay. They discuss Von at the start of the show. If he gets suspended, which seems to be a likely outcome, then it becomes manageable. They save a couple of million on the year, but there will be options to claw back cap dollars later on (in short, likely a lengthy process a year or two down the line). If no suspension then the Bills will be significantly worse off if they get rid of him. So until things get clearer they were not going to factor in the what-ifs of the situation. 51 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said: Dawk, I like your breakdown, and not sure if they considered the cap increase next year. The last estimate I read awhile back stated it will go up approximately $30 mil. The cap increase is already figured in to their figures. Edited December 6, 2023 by Brit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Not sure I would restructure Diggs. Rather trade him when the opportunity presents itself. Release Morse, get younger at the position. Release Morse... definitely!! Trading Diggs....out of the question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 Does he broach any possible Von contract moves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Dude Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 9 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: Greg Tompsett is making the podcast rounds in the bye week this week and talking cap. Gave a pretty detailed plan on Cover1 and showed how the Bills could get themselves to about $72M UNDER the cap. Or $56M under without anything too crazy. Worth watching, or at least clicking around through, for anyone concerned with our cap situation next year. He was also on Locked On Bills to discuss our Free Agents and re-signing options As a little preview, the detailed plan to get to $72M... No Brainers - Cap Saved Restructure Josh - $23M Restructure Diggs - $13M Restructure Ed - $3M Release Hines - $5M Release Harty - $4M Total - $48M Being $29M OVER cap right now, these moves alone put us $19M UNDER. Tompsett's Preferred/Likely Moves - Cap Savings Extend Dawkins - $7M Extend Douglas - $6M Extend Johnson - $5M Release Siran Neal - $3M Release Sam Martin - $1M Restructure McGovern - $3M With these moves added to the above, the Bills would be $44M UNDER Painful but Possible - Cap Savings Release Poyer - $5.5M Release Tre - $6M Bills now $56M UNDER Prefer Not - Cap Savings Restructure Milano - $2.5M Restructure Knox - $6M Trade Elam - $165k Release Bates - $1.5M Release Morse - $5.5M Bills now $72M UNDER I type all that to once again reiterate, the cap is a myth. Thanks for sharing that is very exciting to see, I think this offseason will be about resetting and getting back to being a dominant offensive team. The WR room needs improvement, I think were fine at RB/TE and maybe could use a new starting center if Morse moves on. I think with a new DC and possibly new scheme we can maybe salvage Elam and the Bills have enough young pieces to have a reset at the safety position. Right now safety position will be the biggest change I can see. Again great stuff and I believe if the Bills bring back McDermott then we are going tp see some splash roster moves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Hix Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 Tompsett supports his prerogative with sound moves, but I don't like his prerogative, which is trying to keep a Super Bowl window open when it's apparent that the window is closed. I am not a fan of continuing to get older at key positions by extending everyone. I'd rather clear out old, ineffective players and make another run at things in 2-3 years while Allen still has tread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 9 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: As a little preview, the detailed plan to get to $72M... No Brainers - Cap Saved Restructure Josh - $23M Restructure Diggs - $13M Restructure Ed - $3M Release Hines - $5M Release Harty - $4M Total - $48M Being $29M OVER cap right now, these moves alone put us $19M UNDER. For those wondering Greg is just a fan, like all of us. And the Bills are $42M over right now. Not $29M over. So all the numbers are off. Looks like he is using a faulty number from OTC - look at the balance sheet from Spotrac. I also call BS on them restructuring Diggs. Doing so would lock him here (with no possible way out) for the remainder, at a time when he has shown that he is not happy with the current state of the org. The rest of the moves are likely. 1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said: He isn't addressing a post June 1st cut of Von. No way Von can stay. He isn’t accounting for several things, starting with a wrong cap number. But I don’t think we are cutting Von. Apparently if you make a video with wrong information, people will eat it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 This is why for the most part the cap is like a credit card where you can move and manipulate it like crazy. Problems become when you move all of your pain forever and all the sudden your like the Saints and over 72 mil heading into next year. Beane didn't do anything to wild this offseason as they ate some true cap, as long as you take your medicine from time to time you generally are fine. Also it is why hitting on 3-4 picks a draft that turn into starters is so crucial as it keeps contract values low. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: You only have to account for every paid penny. Right and every bit of money restructured is immediately paid. Every time Allen is restructured to the tune of $20+ million, his cap hit the following seasons balloon. when you have a very long contract, like Mahomes, this is easy peasy. That’s why Veach brags about Mahomes 12 year deal. But Allen’s deal is half as long. Which is going to become a problem. He is worth every penny - don’t get me wrong - but it’s still something that will have to be accounted for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Buddy Hix said: Tompsett supports his prerogative with sound moves, but I don't like his prerogative, which is trying to keep a Super Bowl window open when it's apparent that the window is closed. I am not a fan of continuing to get older at key positions by extending everyone. I'd rather clear out old, ineffective players and make another run at things in 2-3 years while Allen still has tread. The only thing I disagree with him is the Diggs Re structure. Not very smart to push it down the line to receivers over 30. But everything else he brings up I think is very reasonable and I don’t think it would mortgage the future that much down the road (IMHO) Edited December 6, 2023 by BillsFan130 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 7 minutes ago, Einstein said: Right and every bit of money restructured is immediately paid. Every time Allen is restructured to the tune of $20+ million, his cap hit the following seasons balloon. when you have a very long contract, like Mahomes, this is easy peasy. That’s why Veach brags about Mahomes 12 year deal. But Allen’s deal is half as long. Which is going to become a problem. He is worth every penny - don’t get me wrong - but it’s still something that will have to be accounted for. Allen will get extended as well within the next couple of years to manipulate his cap hits again, and probably bump his pay a bit as the salary cap balloons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 Excellent approach. Makes sense. There is no scenario where I'd extend a 30+ year old receiver or bring Jordan Poyer back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 Just now, H2o said: Allen will get extended as well within the next couple of years to manipulate his cap hits again, and probably bump his pay a bit as the salary cap balloons. Extending isn't a fix-all. People seem to think it is (because it creates a year or two of cap relief followed by crushing cap burden) but it just creates a new contract with even more money (current market rates). For example, the Chiefs extended Mahomes a couple months ago to create cap space for 2023, but it made $240M in cap due over the next 4 years. Which will then have to be restructured, creating $320M in cap burden, but they have space to push it because he has a 12 year contract. Fans seem to have this idea that you can just extend and "poof" problem fixed .. if that were the case every team would give gargantuan contracts to free agents to get them to the city and then constantly restructure them until they retire. Just not how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 The one I find comical is saving $165k by trading Elam. What are they getting for him? A gently used three hole punch from some other team? 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 34 minutes ago, Einstein said: Right and every bit of money restructured is immediately paid. Every time Allen is restructured to the tune of $20+ million, his cap hit the following seasons balloon. when you have a very long contract, like Mahomes, this is easy peasy. That’s why Veach brags about Mahomes 12 year deal. But Allen’s deal is half as long. Which is going to become a problem. He is worth every penny - don’t get me wrong - but it’s still something that will have to be accounted for. And when he approaches that giant cap hit, you extend him and push it back. This a new problem for folks who haven’t had a franchise QB for a very long time, but it’s very easy to solve. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 6, 2023 Author Share Posted December 6, 2023 2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: The one I find comical is saving $165k by trading Elam. What are they getting for him? A gently used three hole punch from some other team? 😂 Bag of empty cans from the parking lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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