Second blitz at end of game

[NoSaint]

6 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Tell me why. What schematically or situationally made it a bad call?

A first ends the game without Josh touching the ball. A blitz that’s all or nothing increases the odds of that first. Even a kick with 40 seconds and a timeout isn’t catastrophic- only a first down is.

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Tell me why. What schematically or situationally made it a bad call?

I don't even know if we have a zero blitz package that doesn't leave someone who isn't a great cover DB in man w the injuries

 

I think a lot of it honestly is bad luck. Wilson's deep ball vs Johnson goes for DPI, Allen's deep ball to Diggs vs iirc Jets gets picked... sometimes the play gets made and sometimes it doesn't

[Mango]

The 12 guys on the field and same exact defensive call 2 plays in a row is what soured me on McD. Just, like, he did everything pretty much right all game long on his side of the ball. And to just botch those things.

 

Then everybody’s pressers? And the QB isn’t playing well. Nobody is hearing what the coaches are saying.

 

Maybe Brady turns this thing around on offense. But right now my money is on that he’s lost the locker room or very close to it. I think his message has gone stale.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Mango

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

A first ends the game without Josh touching the ball. A blitz that’s all or nothing increases the odds of that first. Even a kick with 40 seconds and a timeout isn’t catastrophic- only a first down is.

Valid

[Dr.Sack]

I love the blitz. Try to force Wilson into a turnover.  

[Snappysnackcakes]

LOL. Dude, what is going on in your head? You obviously understand traits and tendencies, based on a few responses in this thread. Calling two almost full-house blitzes in a row is not wise. I’m not gonna argue this stuff any longer - you win! Just like “Big Brain Sean” won the game last night…because if it had been an incompletion, an incompletion with one nickel back in coverage, because did I mention the whole almost full- house blitz two plays in a row thing would’ve been universally recognized by the football talking heads as “ brilliant playcalling…?” So, you go ahead and live in your world and I’ll reside in football reality. Deal? 

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

A first ends the game without Josh touching the ball. A blitz that’s all or nothing increases the odds of that first. Even a kick with 40 seconds and a timeout isn’t catastrophic- only a first down is.

How so? Do you know the completion rate of the ball that was thrown?

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Wilson no longer had to fear the turnover the same being out of fg range. It allowed him to throw a lob that he couldn’t the play prior. It’s chess vs checkers. 
 

a sack was bad but not the end of the world the play prior so eating the blitz instead of game planning a PI was a shift between the two presnap even.

That ball was a prayer , a lollipop

 

It's literally all on Taron Johnson not executing his technique and then also not being able to locate the ball..  his job is not that hard on the play for being asked to hold up for 2 seconds

[par73]

It is bad because it is a repeat call-- and the D-Line struggles to get home, even when sending everyone.

[HoofHearted]

3 minutes ago, Mango said:

The 12 guys on the field and same exact defensive call 2 plays in a row is what soured me on McD. Just, like, he did everything pretty much right all game long on his side of the ball. And to just botch those things.

 

Then everybody’s pressers? And the QB isn’t playing well.

 

Maybe Brady turns this thing around on offense. But right now my money is on that he’s lost the locker room or very close to it. I think his message has gone stale.

It wasn’t the same call. They ran two different pressures. The first set up the second.

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

How so? Do you know the completion rate of the ball that was thrown?

I figure 3rd and 10 from the 45 they'd be willing to take 5-7 yards and try the FG

 

[HoofHearted]

7 minutes ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

LOL. Dude, what is going on in your head? You obviously understand traits and tendencies, based on a few responses in this thread. Calling two almost full-house blitzes in a row is not wise. I’m not gonna argue this stuff any longer - you win! Just like “Big Brain Sean” won the game last night…because if it had been an incompletion, an incompletion with one nickel back in coverage, because did I mention the whole almost full- house blitz two plays in a row thing would’ve been universally recognized by the football talking heads as “ brilliant playcalling…?” So, you go ahead and live in your world and I’ll reside in football reality. Deal? 

I’m simply asking you to back up your OP, but instead you’ve just floundered around and become defensive.

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I figure 3rd and 10 from the 45 they'd be willing to take 5-7 yards and try the FG

 

And if we sat back in zone they probably would have. By blitzing we forced them into making a low percentage throw. It didn’t work in our favor. Doesn’t make it a bad call though.

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, HoofHearted said:

If we get a second sack is it a terrible call?

It doesn't work that way.  You don't get to judge coaching decisions based on the outcome of plays.  

 

You can only judge a decision at the time it was made.

 

People have been talking all day about this idiotic decision by McDermott, precisely because it inherently puts the Bills defense in a vulnerable position, and opens the door for a good coach/QB to exploit you.

 

It was on its face the wrong decision at the time the decision was made.

 

 

[NoSaint]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

That ball was a prayer , a lollipop

 

It's literally all on Taron Johnson not executing his technique and then also not being able to locate the ball..  his job is not that hard on the play for being asked to hold up for 2 seconds

payton is notorious for calling 4 verticals against that 

 

given our secondary and their receivers they pre snap can call the lollipop and know there is a decent chance the DB will not execute on the level of the WR. 
 

we begged them to target our weakness with the not unlikely result being we never touch the ball again.

[Buffalo716]

Just now, NoSaint said:

payton is notorious for calling 4 verticals against that 

 

given our secondary and their receivers they pre snap can call the lollipop and know there is a decent chance the DB will not execute on the level of the WR. 
 

we begged them to target our weakness with the not unlikely result being we never touch the ball again.

Taron Johnson has been a starter here for five seasons

 

The players on the team call him the best slot corner in the NFL

 

He's not a bum

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

I’m simply asking you to back up your OP, but instead you’ve just floundered around and become defensive.

And if we sat back in zone they probably would have. By blitzing we forced them into making a low percentage throw. It didn’t work in our favor. Doesn’t make it a bad call though.

I don't know if it was good or bad, just higher variance

 

For a coach who has been hammering on complementary football it seemed a little out of character

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

It doesn't work that way.  You don't get to judge coaching decisions based on the outcome of plays.  

 

You can only judge a decision at the time it was made.

 

People have been talking all day about this idiotic decision by McDermott, precisely because it inherently puts the Bills defense in a vulnerable position, and opens the door for a good coach/QB to exploit you.

 

It was on its face the wrong decision at the time the decision was made.

 

 

That was my entire point… lol

 

 But I’ll play. What was the better call?

[Thrivefourfive]

The first blitz was all out prison break. It’s like.. why didn’t they do that all game?! But, like a solid high school coach calling a defense against a green freshman QB, McDermott does it again, and the veteran Super Bowl winning quarterback and the veteran Super Bowl winning HC/OC played him like the dummy he is. McDermott, his staff, and this team are a bunch of clowns right now. Literally the joke of the NFL. Nice. 
 

If anyone thinks there was a better option that Russ should’ve executed, boy. He did exactly would was needed on that play, all things considered. 
 

Seriously, the what-if excuses around here. Here’s a what-if, Jeudy would’ve scored EASILY with a better throw. Russ had time to throw it 40yds, he had time to throw it 50.. he just didn’t. The blitz did not shorten that throw by ten yards. Imagine if Jeudy scores…. Like he “should have”.

[HoofHearted]

7 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

payton is notorious for calling 4 verticals against that 

 

given our secondary and their receivers they pre snap can call the lollipop and know there is a decent chance the DB will not execute on the level of the WR. 
 

we begged them to target our weakness with the not unlikely result being we never touch the ball again.

You throw a back shoulder to draw dpi. You throw a “lollipop” out of desperation. Don’t give the Broncos more credit than they deserve…

[NoSaint]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Taron Johnson has been a starter here for five seasons

 

The players on the team call him the best slot corner in the NFL

 

He's not a bum

no one called him a bum. 
 

it was fairly pointed out that in the 2023 nfl against a quality set of WRs all on islands without safety help that one of their guys would get a step. Once that happens it’s near lights out as a quality wr will often be able to get that call once they have a step on a corner on an island. 
 

Whether jeudy or Sutton - they were lobbing that ball to the one they liked the mismatch on. And it worked exactly as schemed. Even one deep safety makes that a much riskier throw. Zero blitz? It was out of his hands before they even snapped the ball. Good coach and qb don’t have to think twice on that read there.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

no one called him a bum. 
 

it was fairly pointed out that in the 2023 nfl against a quality set of WRs all on islands without safety help that one of their guys would get a step. Once that happens it’s near lights out as a quality wr will often be able to get that call once they have a step on a corner on an island. 
 

Whether jeudy or Sutton - they were lobbing that ball to the one they liked the mismatch on. And it worked exactly as schemed. Even one deep safety makes that a much riskier throw. Zero blitz? It was out of his hands before they even snapped the ball. Good coach and qb don’t have to think twice on that read there.

It's not as easy as you suggest

 

The completion percentage is not high.. and there wouldn't be a penalty if Johnson plays his technique and doesn't panic

[HoofHearted]

3 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

The first blitz was all out prison break. It’s like.. why didn’t they do that all game?! But, like a solid high school coach calling a defense against a green freshman QB, McDermott does it again, and the veteran Super Bowl winning quarterback and the veteran Super Bowl winning HC/OC played him like the dummy he is. McDermott, his staff, and this team are a bunch of clowns right now. Literally the joke of the NFL. Nice. 
 

If anyone thinks there was a better option that Russ should’ve executed, boy. He did exactly would was needed on that play, all things considered. 
 

Seriously, the what-if excuses around here. Here’s a what-if, Jeudy would’ve scored EASILY with a better throw. Russ had time to throw it 40yds, he had time to throw it 50.. he just didn’t. The blitz did not shorten that throw by ten yards. Imagine if Jeudy scores…. Like he “should have”.

But he didn’t… because there wasn’t time. Buddy couldn’t even step into the 30 yard rainbow he threw.

[Thrivefourfive]

Just now, NoSaint said:

no one called him a bum. 
 

it was fairly pointed out that in the 2023 nfl against a quality set of WRs all on islands without safety help that one of their guys would get a step. Once that happens it’s near lights out as a quality wr will often be able to get that call once they have a step on a corner on an island. 
 

Whether jeudy or Sutton - they were lobbing that ball to the one they liked the mismatch on. And it worked exactly as schemed. Even one deep safety makes that a much riskier throw. Zero blitz? It was out of his hands before they even snapped the ball. Good coach and qb don’t have to think twice on that read there.

Jeudy IS a bum. And the best slot corner in the NFL lost that battle. A blitz and bump coverage on a speedster on 3rd & long and out of field goal range. Something is not adding up here. TJ7 was beat so badly. 

[NewEra]

59 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Anyone complaining about the defense as if it was the reason why we lost must just be watching different games than me because all 5 of our losses are 100% of the shoulders of the offense.  This one play is so minor compared to the 6 week s*** show that has been this pathetic offense and why Dorsey was the first to go.

Agree for the most part, but the D gave up gw drives to the pats and broncos. In both games, the offense scored TDs to give us the lead.  And in both games, the D couldn’t hold the lead.  Because of this, I don’t think we can absolve the defense and say every loss is 💯on the offense.  Losses are often a combination multiple facets.  

[Thrivefourfive]

6 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

But he didn’t… because there wasn’t time. Buddy couldn’t even step into the 30 yard rainbow he threw.

 

Does Taron Johnson make plays downfield? Serious question. He’s the best slot DB in the league (very arguable) for a reason. I’m going to bet that chasing speedsters isn’t his forte, and he proved that to be true.
 

How many timeouts did the Bills have in their pocket on this game deciding play? McDermott doesn’t have the game time smarts for the heady stuff.
 

The only solace I find is that the Broncos would’ve gotten the first down on the next play, even if McDermott’s blitz got home.

 

8 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

But he didn’t… because there wasn’t time. Buddy couldn’t even step into the 30 yard rainbow he threw.

Russ can throw it 50 from his butt

Edited November 15, 2023 by Thrivefourfive

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

1 hour ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

I wholeheartedly agree that Sean needs to be replaced and the second blitz in a row, at the end of the game, seals it for me. This was a legitimately terrible defensive play call. Period. Sean is the DC. End of story. He, unlike previous seasons, has no one to blame. It’s on him and he was outsmarted by a very talented coach and very experienced QB. This is a microcosm of Sean’s time as HC. I wish to be succinct, so that’s it. 

 

I think he has the defense firing on all cylinders, if he has a hand in the offensive playbook he should stop immediately and let Brady/Allen do their thing otherwise he will most likely be out of a HC job. I know it's not a popular opinion but I have no problem with the 2nd blitz, I understand why he did what he did but I understand why others hated it as well and I'm cool with that also. If Johnson doesn't basically fall on the WR there it was game over but I dont know what happened to that dude this year but he sucks imo.

[Murdox]

The blitz actually worked.  WIlson just threw a blind lob up in the air.  What more could you ask for from the blitz?  We just got very unlucky that it found it's way into a receiver's hands, and it was the receiver that got open.  I can understand why McDermott there wanted to try and keep them from getting a short 5-8 yard pass and getting into FG range.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Murdox

[pennstate10]

1 hour ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

This ain’t a video game. It’s called strategy, muscle memory, tendencies, familiarity, and, most importantly- EXPERIENCE! Sean was outsmarted by a cagey vet and one of the best HC’s of our generation. If you cannot see this as, at minimum, a possibility, I can’t help you. In short, we gave them a mulligan and ate a big dic* at the end ofthe game. 

Ah, it was a dumb call. Think it through. 
3rd and 10 with about 140 to go. 
 

Letthem gain 8 ot 9. Protect the 1st down line. 
 

if they kick a fg, we have time to drive down the field for a gw fg. 
 

provided there are no bonehead penalties b

[vanislebills44]

i just think with the way their kicker was battling u dont blitz...our d battled all game and was not giving up too much

johnson trying to press a much bigger wr was odd but eh.  all in all 2 even b in a position to win with all the turnovers was good, a simple lack of kindergarten education cost us the game

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Without our starting corners, our Dline doesn't look dominant like they looked they would be. 

Our Dline was dominant with DQ and our best blitzer Milano in there. Everything changed in London.

[Mantis]

55 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

Ah, it was a dumb call. Think it through. 
3rd and 10 with about 140 to go. 
 

Letthem gain 8 ot 9. Protect the 1st down line. 
 

if they kick a fg, we have time to drive down the field for a gw fg. 
 

provided there are no bonehead penalties b

It was 3rd and 10 with :35 to go.  If we let them get 8-9 yards, that takes the clock to about :30.  Bills probably call TO.  Broncos kick a FG, leaving :25 on the clock?  Not much time to drive down the field.  

[billieve420]

Taron looked like he got caught flat footed on that play as well. Jeudy just ran past him. I didn’t like McDermott going back to back on that play. Would have faked it and dropped guys in coverage while still sending someone on the blitz. However, everyone who was in coverage can’t get beat like that.

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

Agree for the most part, but the D gave up gw drives to the pats and broncos. In both games, the offense scored TDs to give us the lead.  And in both games, the D couldn’t hold the lead.  Because of this, I don’t think we can absolve the defense and say every loss is 💯on the offense.  Losses are often a combination multiple facets.  

 

I get what you are saying, but still put it all on the offense.  Both those games we should have been up multiple scores by the 4th quarter, not playing from behind trying to steal a win.  Other teams are blowing those teams out and our team can't break 25 points.  

 

So many bad calls and mistakes like the Pats game where came away with 0 points after Dorsey ran on 3rd and goal from inside the 1 and chose to do it in shotgun with a past his prime RB 6 yards behind the LOS.  Which by the way, was the 2nd week in a row he made the exact same stupid decision that didn't work either game.  

 

Point is, while yes the defense came up short at the end of the game, the only reason the defense was in that position was because our offense stinks.  And our defense has frequently been out on the field way too long thanks to the anemic offense and its already severely short handed as it is.  The offense has been healthy for the most part yet has been our achilles heal every week.

 

So not disagreeing with you about the defense coming up short on those drives, but I fault the D less for that and more the O for even being in that position and often on the field more than they should be too because the offense has stunk.  

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, NoSaint said:

no one called him a bum. 
 

it was fairly pointed out that in the 2023 nfl against a quality set of WRs all on islands without safety help that one of their guys would get a step. Once that happens it’s near lights out as a quality wr will often be able to get that call once they have a step on a corner on an island. 
 

Whether jeudy or Sutton - they were lobbing that ball to the one they liked the mismatch on. And it worked exactly as schemed. Even one deep safety makes that a much riskier throw. Zero blitz? It was out of his hands before they even snapped the ball. Good coach and qb don’t have to think twice on that read there.

 

I think the point @HoofHeartedis making is that the result was a poor pass by Wilson, exactly what you want to accomplish there.  Wilson heaved a prayer ball knowing the possibility of a PI especially on under thrown deep balls might bail him out because he was gonna be sacked otherwise.  Unfortunately, the prayer ball worked out in the favor.  

 

The point being that the defense accomplished what it wanted in disrupting Wilson and forcing him into a poor pass.  We caught an unfortunate break that Taron couldn't tell it was so under thrown and turn to get back to it prior to making contact as the receiver jumped back for the ball.  

 

I mean I would take a QB heaving a praryer ball sky high off his back foot 10 times out 10 over one where he got a drop back and clean pocket.  

 

The funny thing is that if McD didn't blitz there and Wilson had a clean pocket and delivered a strike to the same place on the field the PI occurred for a completion this board would be screaming to fire McD because he did NOT blitz and let Wilson just be comfortable and deliver the pass.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

Agree for the most part, but the D gave up gw drives to the pats and broncos. In both games, the offense scored TDs to give us the lead.  And in both games, the D couldn’t hold the lead.  Because of this, I don’t think we can absolve the defense and say every loss is 💯on the offense.  Losses are often a combination multiple facets.  

 

And in both GWDs stupid blitzes hurt us. I was to take McDermott's playbook and rip the blitz pages out. Because they suck.

[Doc Brown]

I liked the aggressiveness and the unpredictability.  There's no way they do an all out blitz twice.  Right?  I'm guessing nearly everyone (including Wilson) thought it was going to be a bluff and they were going to drop into coverage.  I think Russ would've found a way to get at least five yards to get them in field goal range if we dropped back in coverage.  Scramble, flip to the running back, quick slant, etc...  Lutz has a strong leg so at that point I'd rather our defense win it for us and force them to go for it on 4th down.  The thought at that point allowing them to set up for the game winning field goal would've sucked.  Russ just made a veteran play (albeit desperation pass) and Jeudy did well to draw the PI. 

 

McDermott had a good defensive game plan all night (a complete 180 from the Bengals game) especially considering how short handed we were in the secondary.  I know they gave up the game winning drive but we would've been down double digits if they didn't keep bailing the offense and special teams out.  The defense deserved to win that game.

[Since1981]

Payton out coached our McD, not unlike Reid’s :13. Think about it, inferior team, on road, scramble FG unit and yet, it was our guy that couldn’t count to 11? Oh yeah, he only has 10 fingers so….

[Ayjent]

All of the coaching needs to be blamed from D to O to special teams.  We can argue about who deserves more blame but they all did a remarkable job finding a way to lose that game. 

[Matt_In_NH]

I am convinced if fans ran the team we would have 4-5 DC's and OC's each game.   As soon as a negative play occurs you fire the current coordinator and cycle in the next one.

 

For the record, I agree this was a terrible call.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

My question was (and I haven’t rewatched so my memory could be hazy…thanks blue light) …why in this scenario when we are sending pressure on 3&10 just narrowly out of FG range…are we taking a flat foot read from 5 yards off the ball. Why not press tighter to the LOS?